"thinking outside the box" with IGF1r3

**MMA** · 05-27-2005, 11:35 AM

i've been thinking a lot about igf1lr3 and our use patterns and i'm wondering if we're using it the right way.

we pretty much all started gear by running standard AS cycles, and there is a huge temptation to try to make other (radically different) drugs fit into the same kind of usage patterns that work for AS cycles. i think this may be the wrong approach. it took guys a long time to figure out that stacking GH along with your standard 10 week AS cycle wasn't the best way to do it, that it took 6 continuous months to get the full effect, much longer than a normal AS cycle. and the 5/2 and EOD programs for GH are also very different from AS cycles - there is no AS that you can leave out your system completely 2-3 days a week and stilll make an effective cycle.

the way we use lr3 - did you know that our month on/month off program is completely based on the fact that early users noticed a dropoff in effect after 5 weeks of continuous use? the month off came from the time on=time off "rule of thumb".

GH studies seem to be showing more and more that suppression is simply not a major isssue with GH (one study showing rapid return of GH levels, even after 2 years of ED). however, increasing GH tolerance seems to be a much bigger issue than originally thought.

people have theorized that igf loses effect after 5 weeks due to a lack of satellite cells because of supressed GH production. this may be true, but i think a much bigger culprit may be simple increasing IGF1 tolerance.

what does this mean to us? instead of running lr3 continuously till it burns out, maybe we should run it EOD the entire length of a supporting AS cycle. igf1 has a pretty good track record for 60 days of use within a 90 day period (the month on/month off system). if the problem is igf resistance, EOD may be more effective than taking a ful month off, it has documented benefits reducing resistance issues in both corticosteroid and GH therapies.

this also allows us to run effective lr3 cycles concurrent with the entire length of our AS cycles for maximum synergy.

as a practical matter, you would probably use lr3 three times a week, because you wouldn't want to use it on the 2 off days of your 5/2 gh program. or if you're running your gh EOD as many are doing today, you could run them both EOD on the same day and avoid any cross-suppression issues. there are actually some interesting advantages to this kind of use - you could use lr3 only on bicep days (PWO) if you were really trying to emphasize biceps. you could do the same thing with lagging body parts like calves if you wanted to give them a boost. or just your 3 heaviest liting days in general.

so the new lr3 cycle might be EOD, the entire length of your supporting AS cycle (to maximize synergy), and then ED the first week of PCT, to kick your balls into action as soon as possible and make sure you keep all your gains.

**milwood** · 05-27-2005, 11:53 AM

interesting. I am curious, but can't add anything intelligent.

**inevitable** · 05-27-2005, 12:38 PM

wow... i never thought about it that way.... it does make sense since its only in ur system a few hrs. very nice post bro!

**kingof516** · 05-27-2005, 01:02 PM

I only run gh/igf (yes aas rules blah blah blah-not my thing) I ran 1mg over two weeks and then ran another mg for about 1 month....later in the cycle is where i got the best growth. I do not think you burn out on igf-its not like it has a serious half life. I want to run it everyday but hey....I am also dealing with an experimental drug.

I do not believe that it burns out in people. I think they don't rotate enough, and don't take days off. I inject site specific along with my workouts.

supersteve · 05-27-2005, 11:36 PM

I'm going to be doing gh 5/2 (mon-fri) then 4 weeks on/off with igf-1 but also just running it mon-fri during this time. Do you think I can run it longer than 4 weeks if im doing 5/2?

**MMA** · 05-27-2005, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by supersteve

I'm going to be doing gh 5/2 (mon-fri) then 4 weeks on/off with igf-1 but also just running it mon-fri during this time. Do you think I can run it longer than 4 weeks if im doing 5/2?

i think you could. get a blood glucose monitor. igf1 drops blood sugar. when it stops having this effect, you'll know it's not working anymore.

this is the theory anyway, and a few guys are trying this. i'll keep you posted.

supersteve · 05-28-2005, 12:01 AM

Will do, thanks for that.

I'm going to be running tren as well which supposedly has awesome synergy with igf-1 so would love to be able to use igf-1 for the whole 10 or so weeks i'll be running tren. Might even do 4 on 3 off with the igf-1. Hopefully I can prove your theory right

**MMA** · 05-28-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by supersteve

Will do, thanks for that.

I'm going to be running tren as well which supposedly has awesome synergy with igf-1 so would love to be able to use igf-1 for the whole 10 or so weeks i'll be running tren. Might even do 4 on 3 off with the igf-1. Hopefully I can prove your theory right

4/3 for igf might make sense if you're running GH 5/2 - you woudn't want you last day of igf to interfere with your 2 day gh off period.