Calling all experienced Insulin users(Your help/advice is being requested)

[Pinnacle]

As most of you men/ladies already know.Insulin is one drug I've avoided using out of fear.I've read quite a lot about it.I understand the mechanics behind using it,but this is the one drug that can drop you like a fly with one simple mistake.Thus being the reason,and only reason,it frightens me.
Well,it's time for me to get over that fear and man up,so to speak.
Currently I'm running a "mock" pre contest diet just to see what foods agree with my body,and what doesn't.My thoughts for running insulin directly after I complete the diet are this.I'm looking to take advantage of the rebound effect coming off a long,very strict diet.I'm currently just beginning week 4 of a somewhat beefy cycle.So my thoughts are,by running insulin after the diet is complete(In 5 days)I should be able to get that extra spurt of growth with the Insulin/anabolic combination.And with an increase in caloric intake as well.


Here's my questions for you fine peolple:


How much do you attribute to insulin for your over all growth (Muscle wise)?


Do you feel it's actually worth the extra effort?

I'm currently 223 lbs/5.5 % BF...what would be a good starting dose for my current weight?

What would you suggest my PWO carb in take be (In grams)?

Finally,for those that were kind enough to answer my questions,could you please post your pre work out/post work out meals?



I honestly can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to answer my questions.
I'm preparing for a comp in mid 2006,and the info you men give me can help dramatically.

All my respect...

~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

As far as results Pinn, whenever I run Slin I always feel much fuller. My muscles fill out a little bit more and my strength goes up a notch. I feel like it just gives my muscles more of the nutrients that they need to get where I want them to go. I have tried Slin both on and off AAS and feel that when I run it when on I get better results.

I typically gain 1-2lbs. in the month I run it. BF usually remains constant so it must be all LBM that I gain.

I do feel that its worth the extra effort b/c I"m personally looking to "thicken up." So for me its a great ticket.

I started at 5iu and bumped it up 1iu every day until I reached 10iu. I felt bold a couple of times and tried 12 and it was too much. 10iu is a great dosage for me but I know some who run 20iu. I think it's all base on the individual.

I follow the typical regimen of 10g of carbs to every 1iu Slin. I've tried lowering the carb intake a little and hypo set right in. My buddy takes 10iu and 60g of carbs and that's borderline hypo. I tried finding my tolerance and learned that its 10g per 1iu. Not taking any chances with that one.

As far as PWO meals this is what I do. I inject me 10iu Humalog and then drink my 100g dex, 10g glutamine, 10g creatine. After drinking that I go w/ 60g Isolate. An hour after that I take in a 50/50 carb/protein meal. Usually about 40g of each. An hour-hour and half later I eat the same thing. By the time that meal is digested I'm usually good to go. A lot of people will tell you to mix the dex w/ whey but I like to split it up. Just a preference of mine.
Pre work meals are always whatever I can get in prior to training. I have a hectic schedule so I try to comsume whatever I can.


I hope that helps but I'm sure you knew all that already buddy. It's always nice to have personal feedback though isn't it?????

[hardcorpcomp]

I don't have much more to add to Jayhova16's post except some of my own experiences. I have only done 2, 3 week cycles and am in my 3rd one now during PCT. Everyone told me that Insulin would make me fat even at the accepted dose of 10g dex per iu. I however have a real hard time putting fat on anyways so I was willing to experiement! What I did was take excess amounts of dextrose, along with glut, creatine, and whey isolate after a postworkout shot. I did not want to play around with going hypo at all. In the short history that I have tried it however I was able to customize my intake of carbs in relation to iu's injected and find a balance. I have felt the onset of going hypo on one occasion which was good in a way because It is easier for me to recognize it now if it happenned again. I had high hopes when I started the slin thinking that it would add 10 pounds to my frame right away. The strange thing was that during the slin cycls I lost wieght both times! It seems that it accelarated my metabolism and made me actually lose bodyfat. I went from 218 to about 209 and felt much harder and leaner. I now do not fear putting on weight with slin at all and eat as much as I can in the following 2 hours of the injection. I beleive that everyones body reacts it's own way to slin. Some say it is better then aas and other don't get a whole lot from it. I myself will experiement some more with it but have much more conservative views on it now. I have worked up to 12 ius per postwork injection and am wondering if I should try more or just stay there.

[spound]

As most of you men/ladies already know.Insulin is one drug I've avoided using out of fear.I've read quite a lot about it.I understand the mechanics behind using it,but this is the one drug that can drop you like a fly with one simple mistake.Thus being the reason,and only reason,it frightens me.
Well,it's time for me to get over that fear and man up,so to speak.
Currently I'm running a "mock" pre contest diet just to see what foods agree with my body,and what doesn't.My thoughts for running insulin directly after I complete the diet are this.I'm looking to take advantage of the rebound effect coming off a long,very strict diet.I'm currently just beginning week 4 of a somewhat beefy cycle.So my thoughts are,by running insulin after the diet is complete(In 5 days)I should be able to get that extra spurt of growth with the Insulin/anabolic combination.And with an increase in caloric intake as well.


Here's my questions for you fine peolple:


How much do you attribute to insulin for your over all growth (Muscle wise)? It doesnt make a HUGE difference, I feel the differences mroe than I see them, but it most definately helps out a little. (ie: recovery, fullness, anti-catabolism, and slight muscle building)

Do you feel it's actually worth the extra effort? Yes I do. You may wonder why after reading my first response, but isulin is VERY easy to use GRANTED you know how to use it right and safely.
I'm currently 223 lbs/5.5 % BF...what would be a good starting dose for my current weight? I woudl start out at 4 iu's moving up 1-2 iu's per workout as you feel comfortable, not going higher than 10iu's on your first run. Maybe even 8ius
What would you suggest my PWO carb in take be (In grams)?I would go with the rule of thumb and start out at 10g of carbs (dextrose) per iu of slin. IMHO this is actually taking it way overboard (you will absolutely have no issues with hypo at this ratio) and quickly adjust your carb intake according to how you feel. I personally can go down to 5.5-6 iu without going hypo, but I in no way recommend this to ANYONE. You will probably end up discovering that 7g of carb/ iu is suitable for you.
Finally,for those that were kind enough to answer my questions,could you please post your pre work out/post work out meals? Pre-workout: chicken breast with brown rice (1.5 cups) or chicken breast with almonds. then I workout, shott 10 iu's of slin and have my PWO shake consisting of 55g of dextrose, 66g protein (this also has 6g of carbs in it, so it comes out to 61g carbs total), I wait an hour, and then have some lean protein (usually chicken or eggwhites) and a cup of brown rice. 2 hrs after this meal, I go back to my protein/fat meals. BTW< I use HUMALOG, which IMO is the best to use for our needs.


I honestly can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to answer my questions.
I'm preparing for a comp in mid 2006,and the info you men give me can help dramatically.

All my respect...

~Pinnacle~

My answers are in bold. Good luck in your competition!

[rodge]

hey pinni its about time you toke the next step

let me say that if i could just pick one thing besides aas it would be slin, gives me the most results if you compair the costs.i think its a relatively safe drug to use if you know what your doing. you need to plan things ahead like if your need to go on the road take some food/drinks with you that contains sugar for if you end up in a traffic jam or something.

do a search for gears slin pwo schedule wich is what i use although i go really low with my carb intake. but this is something you can experiment with after feeling comfy with slin.

as far as doses you've heard them, 4iu and work your way up untill desired dose.

try to avoid fats in the meal before workout due to digesting time,and pwo for as long as slin is active.

good luck with your show prep bro.

keep us posted on how it goes with the slin and the show.

take care,

-rodge

[notus]

I like slin except for the fact it makes me lethargic and I gain a little extra body fat. I gain the extra fat because I do not push lowering my carbs. I stick to 10 grams per I.U. of slin. But I know I can go as low as 8 grams of carbs per I.U.. I like to have the extra carbs even though it adds a little fat because sometimes I expend a little extra energy chasing my kids around after my injection. Make sure you get a glucometer and you always have glucose tabs, juice, or soda around.

Let us know how you like your results.

[SPIKE]

Hey Spound I noticed that you said you eat brown rice as your first PWO meal after slin. Have you ever experienced any sides while doing this?? I"m assuming no b/c you'r able to control your sides administering a 6/1 ratio of carbs to IU.

The reason I ask is b/c I feel hypo set in ONLY if I eat a carb that isnt very starchy like brown rice or legumes. I always load up on high glycemic carbs like rice or pasta. Those are my 2 choices.



By the way, as notice already commented. Glucose tabs can be a savior. When I was trying out Slin for the first time I was stuck in traffic on the way home. Felt my bloodsugar dropping and luckily had some tabs on me. Took 3 and felt better within minutes..

[oswaldosalcedo]

congrats for comp !

i have 4 years using slin,started at 2 ius next day 4 iu,next 8 iu and well............
10gr carbs x iu ,20 min after shot, 30-40 days,
now zero carb (me),just 50 gr whey shake (isopure zero carb)you should not treat this,you can die.
good pump, some mass.
not carbs, not pro, not fat 2-3 hours before shot.
use humalog im 10 iu, peak at 40 min.
10 gr carbs x ius + 50 gr whey isolate.


pd:ever,ever have carbs,
just in case.

[spound]

Hey Spound I noticed that you said you eat brown rice as your first PWO meal after slin. Have you ever experienced any sides while doing this?? I"m assuming no b/c you'r able to control your sides administering a 6/1 ratio of carbs to IU.

The reason I ask is b/c I feel hypo set in ONLY if I eat a carb that isnt very starchy like brown rice or legumes. I always load up on high glycemic carbs like rice or pasta. Those are my 2 choices.
.

No, not my first meal, but I have brown rice with my PPWO meal....SO about an hour after. ANd no, i have no bouts with hypo doing this to be honest, i can't remember the last time I went hypo. Everyone is different though, like I said i can go down to 5-6g/iu and not go hypo. I also feel a lot less bloated if I use brown rice instead of white rice or something with a higher GI.

[Pinnacle]

Thank you gentlemen.Your replies are greatly appreciated!!!

I'm well researched on this topic.I was looking for some real life experiences from people I know/trust!!!I wasn't disappointed.

I have a BG monitor,and I'm quite familar with using it.Actually,it's a handy tool while dieting.I use it often.
"Gear" couldn't make an appearence in this thread,but researching,I found some great advice from him in one of Jays ealry threads

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ht=PWO+insulin

So Props to him as well for indirectly giving me solid advice.


One final question though...

Where do you guys do your shot?In the gym locker room?In the car?I live 10 mins away from the gym,so if need be,I'll do the shot there with Dex drink,head home and have my Pro drink and proceed with my meals per 1hr later,then 2 hrs after that.

Thanks again men!!!

~Pinnacle~

[rodge]

i always shoot slin at the gym.

-rodge

[oswaldosalcedo]

Thank you gentlemen.Your replies are greatly appreciated!!!

I'm well researched on this topic.I was looking for some real life experiences from people I know/trust!!!I wasn't disappointed.

I have a BG monitor,and I'm quite familar with using it.Actually,it's a handy tool while dieting.I use it often.
"Gear" couldn't make an appearence in this thread,but researching,I found some great advice from him in one of Jays ealry threads

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ht=PWO+insulin

So Props to him as well for indirectly giving me solid advice.


One final question though...

Where do you guys do your shot?In the gym locker room?In the car?I live 10 mins away from the gym,so if need be,I'll do the shot there with Dex drink,head home and have my Pro drink and proceed with my meals per 1hr later,then 2 hrs after that.

Thanks again men!!!

~Pinnacle~

in the bathroom (hidden ..........lol............)

[notus]

I shoot slin in bathroom stall or in the shower stall. I can make sure the needle is covered by my towel on the way into the shower so no one see's it or I'll slide it in my pocket if I use a bathroom stall. I just make sure my PW shake is ready before I shoot.

[Pinnacle]

You guy are a bunch of friggin' junkies..LMAO...life has came down to doing shots in the shitter...my GF is sooooo going to love hearing that.


Seriously though...Thanks for all the input!!!

~Pinnacle~

[hardcorpcomp]

I hide the loaded pin in an old case for glasses. It is a hard case so it won't depress the pin and fits right in the pocket of my gym pants. Once I am done my workout I just go to the change room, put the case in my pocket and do it in a bathroom stall. I even flush the can after for effect!

[spound]

I hide the loaded pin in an old case for glasses. It is a hard case so it won't depress the pin and fits right in the pocket of my gym pants. Once I am done my workout I just go to the change room, put the case in my pocket and do it in a bathroom stall. I even flush the can after for effect!

Holy shit, I use a glasses case too! LOL

I thoguth I was the only one he he

[rodge]

I hide the loaded pin in an old case for glasses. It is a hard case so it won't depress the pin and fits right in the pocket of my gym pants. Once I am done my workout I just go to the change room, put the case in my pocket and do it in a bathroom stall. I even flush the can after for effect!

i thought i was original,but this is exactly how i do it,even the flushing

-rodge

[SPIKE]

I always shoot it at the gym then drink my PWO drink on the way home.

All of us w/ cases for glasses yet all of us have 20/20 vision . I usually put mine in the case that you put your face to from your radio. Anything concealing works though.

[Pinnacle]

I assume you guy aren't using a slin pin.Cause there is no way I could fit a loaded slin pin in my glass case.

~Pinnacle~

[rodge]

I assume you guy aren't using a slin pin.Cause there is no way I could fit a loaded slin pin in my glass case.

~Pinnacle~

always use a slinpin,10-15iu in a pin is'nt that big. i use a pencil case.

-rodge

[Pinnacle]

always use a slinpin,10-15iu in a pin is'nt that big. i use a pencil case.

-rodge

You lost me.How are you getting 15 iu's in a 1 cc slin pin?An iu for slin is the same as HGH right?

[rodge]

i use 50iu slinpins and you pull it to 10-15 iu.
each tick on a 30 or 50iu slinpin is 1iu.

hope this clears it up.

-rodge

[Pinnacle]

i use 50iu slinpins and you pull it to 10-15 iu.
each tick on a 30 or 50iu slinpin is 1iu.

hope this clears it up.

-rodge

I'm glad I asked this question,because I would have Killed myself.

I was assuming 1 iu of slin was the same as HGH.Meaning 10 units =1 iu


So measuring slin is exactly the same as measuring IGF then?

[rodge]

I'm glad I asked this question,because I would have Killed myself.

I was assuming 1 iu of slin was the same as HGH.Meaning 10 units =1 iu


So measuring slin is exactly the same as measuring IGF then?

glad i could help you out.

you prob would have end up using 40iu for the first time,that would be alot of carbs. i know you take things to the extreme but this is exaggerating

-rodge

[Pinnacle]

glad i could help you out.

you prob would have end up using 40iu for the first time,that would be alot of carbs. i know you take things to the extreme but this is exaggerating

-rodge

No kidding!!I seriously doubt 40g of carbs would have been enough for 40 iu's slin.I most likely wouldn't have made it home.


~Pinnacle~

[Puffader]

Bout time. Slin blows me up with fluid and distends my abdomen but that's just me. I blow up like if I was on dbol. I stopped about 10 days ago and lost 9-10 lbs of fluid..
With the extra water I look soft so just watch your diet and GET BIG...

[oswaldosalcedo]

i use 30 iu syringe.
30 (thickness) x 11 (lenght).

so cute ! ......lol..........
so mini ! ...............lol...........

[Pinnacle]

i use 30 iu syringe.
30 x 11.

so cute ! ......lol..........
so mini ! ...............lol...........

I never saw them...I have 1/2 cc slin pins(100 iu).So ONE slash mark is an iu correct?????????

[oswaldosalcedo]

I never saw them...I have 1/2 cc slin pins(100 iu).So ONE slash mark is an iu correct?????????

from becton and dickinson

bd.com.
ultra fine I

Product Number: 328431 (30x 12 neddle)

or ultra fine II

Product Number: 328440 (31 x 8 neddle) is cute! ...lol....

[*Narkissos*]

dammit...you guys have answered all the questions

Do i still add my piece?

[Pinnacle]

dammit...you guys have answered all the questions

Do i still add my piece?

I insist!!!everyones voice is welcome here!!!

[*Narkissos*]

dammit...you guys have answered all the questions

Do i still add my piece?

Here goes

How much do you attribute to insulin for your over all growth (Muscle wise)?

Slin ranks very highly on my list of compounds. Right now it's my compound of choice. I've noticed gains in LBM; fullness; and strength... while on. When i dieted down while using slin as my sole anabolic i noticed a different 'look' to my musculature...a certain maturity that wasn't present prior. (dunno if that was related or not...that'd require some research and testing on my part)

Do you feel it's actually worth the extra effort?

HELL YEA! see above post.

I'm currently 223 lbs/5.5 % BF...what would be a good starting dose for my current weight?

4 IUs as suggested by the others is the prudent dose. I, however started my slin-experiments at 8 IUs and worked upward to 20 IUs...not that i'm advising you do the same.

What would you suggest my PWO carb in take be (In grams)?

10gr per IUs is where most feel comfortable. From that point you can start to experiment with a lower number of grams per IU. Depends on your goals really.

When i was cutting i went as low as 4-6 grams per IU. While bulking i stuck to 10-12 grams per IU range.

Finally,for those that were kind enough to answer my questions,could you please post your pre work out/post work out meals?

pre-workout... pro/fat meal. (protein + EFA)
PWO... .25 grams pro per lb LBM (whey) + carbs (dex) @ 6 gr per IU

PPWO... appr. 50 grams carbs (brown rice) + 30 gr protein (tuna)

One final question though...

Where do you guys do your shot?In the gym locker room?In the car?I live 10 mins away from the gym,so if need be,I'll do the shot there with Dex drink,head home and have my Pro drink and proceed with my meals per 1hr later,then 2 hrs after that.

That depends...It's more comfortable for me to shoot at home...it's easier to control the variables from at home

But sometimes i shoot at the gym..hit my shake and head home...and hope not to get stuck in traffic of any kind lmao!