HG, Slin for great gains

[HGH4life]

I'v been reading aroud for a while and it seems to me that more and more people are swicthing up their inj. routines
- you hear 5on/2off is the best,then you hear they run it like that because they cant afford it everyday???? (It doesent need to bew run everyday)
--If u cant afford it u shouldn't use it......
--I just started today runnin 10ius,of HG(5a.m.-5 in miday) and 10ius of slinPWO. I am going to run this for 4on and 3off for 5weeks and see what the differencece is, if any, I have been runnin GH at 5ius ed 5on2off for the last 6months. I have also incorparated Slin in my regiments in the past, so I will have some good feedback if it is a difference,
--All this will aas of course.
Will keep everyone posted.......
---
Since i'm only on it 4days a week I dont think strecthing the slin out to 5 week will hurt???
---- Will keep everyone posted.......

[Pinnacle]

---
Since i'm only on it 4days a week I dont think strecthing the slin out to 5 week will hurt???
---- Will keep everyone posted.......

There is no scientific evidence running insulin for prolonged periods of time will make you dependent.So running your slin for 5 weeks won't be an issue.If someone says it is,make them post studies to back thier claims.Trust me.They can't/won't.

~Pinnacle~

[Gear]

I don't excatly know the mechanics behind becoming slin dependant, and even without evidence/studies on paper, I still believe it's possible to become insulin dependant. I believe this simply because there has been many bodybuilders that have become dependant due to high doses and/or extended periods of use. So, my advice to you is, running 5 weeks instead of 4 probably won't make any difference, but I am not going to say that it's impossible to become dependant. Apart from high doses and long term use, I would say one's genetics plays a big role when it comes to becoming depedant. So, as I said, many bodybuiders have become dependant, and that happens if you absolutly abuse the drug. This probably means rediculous doses and no time off for years.

Take care.

-Gear

[rodge]

There is no scientific evidence running insulin for prolonged periods of time will make you dependent.So running your slin for 5 weeks won't be an issue.If someone says it is,make them post studies to back thier claims.Trust me.They can't/won't.

~Pinnacle~

true,there are no studies done towards this subject. but this means thatyou can also reverse the claim, how do you know its safe to run it for extended period of time. fact stays that most of us here are recreational bodybuilders and why take the risk of becoming slin dependant. would the extra benefit of running it straight outweigh the risk of it? and what noticeable benefit would that be opose to running it 4/4 or even 5/4?

-rodge

[Gear]

Great point rodge.

-Gear

[SPIKE]

I would say one's genetics plays a big role when it comes to becoming depedant.

This has to be the most crucial point to stress. If one is gentically placed in harms way its inevitable. Time combined with abuse will play the biggest role in decided the time pattern.

I have to admit that I know some that abuse certain compounds with no known repercussions. Then I know an older gent personally that is a permanent diabetic. Granted hes almost 60 but said that he was on GH for about 3 years straight and cycles Slin periodically. He became diabetic and his doc tried blaming it on his slin abuse. Obviously that cant be proven as even the doctor said that.

In the end if your prone its only a matter of time. Will taking slin accelerate up the process of becoming diabetic if prone???? I have my opinion but no medical documentation to prove it...........

[goose]

Very good point rodge,I have heard Professional BB that become slin depedant,this is a fact,so it is possible,why take the risk unless your a big time pro.We could look at it like this,there is no scientific evidence running insulin for prolonged periods of time is safe,we just don`t have these studies.

goose4..

[Pinnacle]

fact stays that most of us here are recreational bodybuilders and why take the risk of becoming slin dependant. would the extra benefit of running it straight outweigh the risk of it? and what noticeable benefit would that be opose to running it 4/4 or even 5/4?

-rodge

Risks?What risks?You are basing that comment on "speculation only" with nothing to back your claim.You have a study that suggests you can become insulin dependent?If not,then you are merely stating an opinion with nothing to base it on.

With abuse,anything is possible.Certainly running slin at high doses for years on end could/would take it's toll.But to blatantly tell someone 4on/4 off is utter nonsense.Especially considering the doses the recreational users takes.Most take slin on training days only(which would equate to 4-5 days per week,in most cases).I see no harm at all in running slin for 5-6 week cycles.
DEVILDOG(our newest VET) has been running slin for 16 mos straight with no adverse issues.I myself,have been on slin for 9 weeks straight with no adverse issues(have been checked by the doctor).My lab results alone,tell me that the 4 on/ 4 off protocol is nothing more than brotelligence rearing it's ugly head,once more.I don't plan on running it year round,but I have absolutely no fear in becoming dependent running it(slin) for a few months straight.Nor should anyone else.

~Pinnacle~

[rodge]

Risks?What risks?You are basing that comment on "speculation only" with nothing to back your claim.You have a study that suggests you can become insulin dependent?If not,then you are merely stating an opinion with nothing to base it on.



~Pinnacle~

and what's it your doing then?? You can't back up your claims also,as this is also only speculation.

- rodge

[rodge]

.Most take slin on training days only(which would equate to 4-5 days per week,in most cases).I see no harm at all in running slin for 5-6 week cycles.


~Pinnacle~

in this part i agree,running it for 5-6 weeks should be fine if taking aprox same time off.

-rodge

[rodge]

I myself,have been on slin for 9 weeks straight with no adverse issues(have been checked by the doctor).My lab results alone,tell me that the 4 on/ 4 off protocol is nothing more than brotelligence rearing it's ugly head,once more.
~Pinnacle~

if i'm correct then you once stated that you could run high dose of slin whit less carbs then common. This indicates in tollerance to insulin .

-rodge

[rodge]

but I have absolutely no fear in becoming dependent running it(slin) for a few months straight.Nor should anyone else.

~Pinnacle~

ignoring the risks that comes with our life style is just plain stupid imo.

-rodge

[j martini]

if i'm correct then you once stated that you could run high dose of slin whit less carbs then common. This indicates in tollerance to insulin .

-rodge

If im not mistaken pinnacle has only recently started using slin, in fact i thought he said he wasnt going to use it again as he noticed stomach destention with it.

I have used slin in the past for 10 weeks straight and had no problems when i came off.

[rodge]

I have used slin in the past for 10 weeks straight and had no problems when i came off.

and with you many others but fact stays that there are plenty of others who have become insulin dependant. one 10 week cycle will prob be ok but what when your doing that multiple times. if your gonna do 10 weeks then my gues is that you won't wait 10 weeks before hopping back on. and for once and for all i'm not saying that you get into problems but ignoring the risk is gambling with your health. evryone has to decide for itself but i just don't want that evryone thinks,esp noobs,that its perfectly safe. have'nt we got enough doping related horror stories?

-rodge

[goose]

But I do find the slin and IGF consensus 4 on/4 off on forums to be very misleading,the net spreads great information,but you have the flip side of the coin as well, ludrious claims and practices are very common practice.Playing safe is our main concern,and it`s up to the individual to make his choice,and the rest is up to science.

goose4..

[Pinnacle]

and what's it your doing then?? You can't back up your claims also,as this is also only speculation.

- rodge

Show me the lab reports where insulin was the sole culprit for ppl becoming insulin dependent.

~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

if i'm correct then you once stated that you could run high dose of slin whit less carbs then common. This indicates in tollerance to insulin .

-rodge

HGH was/is the cause for that.Nothing to do with insulin usage


~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

ignoring the risks that comes with our life style is just plain stupid imo.

-rodge

Exactly...YOUR opinion.......


~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

If im not mistaken pinnacle has only recently started using slin, in fact i thought he said he wasnt going to use it again as he noticed stomach destention with it.

I was diagnosed with Candida.Nothing to do with insulin .The slin just pronounced it,that's all.One pill and you are cured with Candida.


~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

But I do find the slin and IGF consensus 4 on/4 off on forums to be very misleading

This is very true. Some define "research" as lurking on boards and getting info from other members. As rumors filter through boards there will be more and more people trying these methods to gain muscle.

Playing safe is our main concern,and it`s up to the individual to make his choice,and the rest is up to science.

Then here's the flip side to your previous statement goose. Take advice in your hand with a grain of salt. What works for one may not for others. Everyone should research before attempting anything that is dealt with anabolics.
I havent seen any detrimental documentation with running slin for prolonged periods of time. But on that note I would not be one to run it for longer then 4-5 weeks with the same exact time off. I'm definitely not knocking what others do b/c I dont see anything wrong with it, I have nothing to back it nor would I want to. Good Luck to all!!!!!!!

[HGH4life]

Great post all u guys. I was really looking for more input on everyone's thoughts about the HGH than slin. Still good advice. Thanks

[SPIKE]

Great post all u guys. I was really looking for more input on everyone's thoughts about the HGH than slin. Still good advice. Thanks

Yea sometimes everyone gets sidetracked bo another yet interesting topic of discussion. Sorry..............

[Gear]

This has to be the most crucial point to stress. If one is gentically placed in harms way its inevitable. Time combined with abuse will play the biggest role in decided the time pattern.

I have to admit that I know some that abuse certain compounds with no known repercussions. Then I know an older gent personally that is a permanent diabetic. Granted hes almost 60 but said that he was on GH for about 3 years straight and cycles Slin periodically. He became diabetic and his doc tried blaming it on his slin abuse. Obviously that cant be proven as even the doctor said that.

In the end if your prone its only a matter of time. Will taking slin accelerate up the process of becoming diabetic if prone???? I have my opinion but no medical documentation to prove it...........

I think you are missunderstanding me. When I say "genetics" I mean, if you are supposed to become dependant, then you will regardless if you use slin or not.

-Gear

[Gear]

Ok, we have "becoming dependant due to slin use" VS "not being able to become dependant due to slin use". Now, we can state opinions, but we can't state definate answers because we have no proof for any of these arguments. Not that I have seen anyway. If anybody does, please do show me/us as I am very interested to know myself.

And the only reason why I believe that one can become dependant due to slin use is because many other non-diabetic (bodybuilders) people that use insulin have become dependant. So, to me it sounds like they became dependant because they used insulin. Now please remember that, it's not like one bodybulider has become dependant, it's more than one that has become dependant. Is this a councidence? Or are these people (bodybuilders) just supposed to become dependant regardless if they used slin or not? Well, to me it doesn't sound like a councidence, and that is why I believe slin use can lead to dependancy.

-Gear

[Gear]

But to blatantly tell someone 4on/4 off is utter nonsense.

Bro, the reason why we recomend the 4 ON/OFF theory is because that is what has worked best for most people so far. But, you are saying it is nonsense. How can you say it is nonsense when you don't even know if the 4 ON/OFF theory is good or bad. If you do, then please state evidence. So, as I said, how can you say it is nonsense? Anyway, we recomend the 4 ON/OFF theory because that is what has worked best for most meaning results + minimum side effects. To me, that is a good thing, so I recomend that to people.

My lab results alone,tell me that the 4 on/ 4 off protocol is nothing more than brotelligence rearing it's ugly head,once more

Bro, no disrespect, but you can't negatively comment on the 4 ON/OFF theory when you don't have the evidence to state that the 4 ON/OFF theory is no good.

I have absolutely no fear in becoming dependent running it(slin) for a few months straight.Nor should anyone else.

You say "nobody should fear becoming dependant" and you don't even have the evidence to state that insulin use canot lead to one becoming dependant. As a matter of fact, I think it's really dangerous to give someone advice like that when you are not sure about the answer yourself.

I always read your posts bro, and your status here is well deserved. So don't let my opinion become personal, it's just what I think in regards to this subject, and this time round I strongly disagree

-Gear

[DEVLDOG]

to all that say "there are BB'RS who have become dependent"....NAME THEM AND STATE HOW YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.

as Pinn said, I have been using 12ius pwo for damn near 17 months..I am fine.my glucose test 3 months ago score was 82. VERY NORMAL!!
THIS IS TRUE AND FACTUAL INFORMATION RIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

YOUS WANT TO RUN IT 4 ON/OFF, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT,BUT DONT SPREAD RUMORS ABOUT THINGS YOU CANT PROVE.

[*Narkissos*]

Interesting thread... I personally have my veiws on the matter (which i keep off the open board.. as said veiws may be potentially dangerous)..

Keep it civil men.. and the thread stays up.

Some research documentation on either end or the discussion would be a nice read too.. i like to read



~Narkissos

[Pinnacle]

to all that say "there are BB'RS who have become dependent"....NAME THEM AND STATE HOW YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.


YOUS WANT TO RUN IT 4 ON/OFF, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT,BUT DONT SPREAD RUMORS ABOUT THINGS YOU CANT PROVE.

Haven't you heard DD that the "I heard this,I heard that" is credible scientific evidence used in this particular forum?I too want to see these BBers stand up and tell all how they became insulin dependent.I'm sure you'd read that they really abused the drug.We are talking about normal dose ranges here,not excessive abuse.

Who is the Yoda who posted the 4 on/4 off protocol?And what drew him to that conclusion?There are many older theories that have been debunked lately in regards to anabolic drugs.In this particular case NO ONE can say it's possible or impossible yet(no scientific evidence)to become slin dependent,but many are experimenting and going against 4 on /4 off protocol and not having any issues.I'd also like to know what drew this Yoda to the conclusion that it would take 30 days(or time on/time off)for the pancreas to recover fully?
I think DD summed it up well in the last line of his post

~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

I think you are missunderstanding me. When I say "genetics" I mean, if you are supposed to become dependant, then you will regardless if you use slin or not.

-Gear

Actually I totally agree Gear. I dont see where you thought I didn't.....

[Eugenev]

Gear
Can you gain just as well without using slin, instead use a high testosterone like 800mg p/w? With GH 1d on 1d off?

[rodge]

Gear
Can you gain just as well without using slin, instead use a high testosterone like 800mg p/w? With GH 1d on 1d off?

i know its directed towards gear but i'll give my opinion too.

yes you will see some improvement with hgh only or combined with test. but by adding insulin you will see some nice synergie due to the fact that both insulin and hgh must be present in the liver to create igf-1,wich is the main cause of hgh's anabolic properties.

if your aiming for muscle growth then i would def incorperate slin.

-rodge

[Gear]

Hey rodge, thanx for that mate, saves me the time. Eugenev welcome to AR.

-Gear

[catabolic kid]

I know very little in comparison to Gear, Pinn and Rodge, but, I was thinking that since humalog is in and out of the system so fast and is only taken about 5 x per week (for our purposes), that there would be little interruption in the bodies own endocrine system. Which would imply that there would not be a high risk of becoming dependant. Again, I do not know much in comparison, I am still learning from you guys, but I just wanted to see what you guys thought of that theory.

[Eugenev]

Thanks rodge
Well i hope i'll learn allot from you guys

The thing is im to scared to use insulin
Got everything HGH Genetropin hum****-R
But i don't know how to take the slin
with the HGH or what?

thanks guys
Eugene

[Eugenev]

Can you please tell me how to use it properly

I dont want to make a mistake and put my life in danger
I need to know how many iu's a day, when
My weight is 194 lbs


thanks

[DEVLDOG]

Can you please tell me how to use it properly

I dont want to make a mistake and put my life in danger
I need to know how many iu's a day, when
My weight is 194 lbs


thanks

Some will tell you to start low like 2ius/ed and work up.to me thats not enough to do anything.10ius pwo.have pwo shake with atleast 80g of carbs/simple suger(dextrose) and protien then 1 hr later a ppwo meal with some carbs and protien.you will be absolutely fine.you can adjust your carbs when you get more comfortable with it.

dont exspect miricles from using slin.

[rodge]

research the whole subject on slin before even considring using it. there is plenty of info here,use the searchbutton. def look into some posts made gear about post insulin nutrition timing.

i'll give you some advice on when to shoot both hgh and slin. although i don't know how many iu's of hgh your planning on using. insulin needs to be shot pwo asap IM. this is always the case. now when incorperating hgh make sure to shoot atleast one dose of hgh with the slin,also IM. so if you only take 2iu a day shoot it all pwo with the slin,i even put it in the same pin.

so enjoy reseaching and if you got any more questions feel free to ask.

be safe,

-rodge

[Eugenev]

Sorry rodge im new
what does pwo and IM mean

Im gonna take 4iu's gh a day i've got test tabs and i wanna shoot like 800mg
of sus and deca pw/ I've even got glucose tabs

[rodge]

Sorry rodge im new
what does pwo and IM mean

Im gonna take 4iu's gh a day i've got test tabs and i wanna shoot like 800mg
of sus and deca pw/ I've even got glucose tabs

you def need alot more research to do. esp on post slin nutrition.

pwo=post workout
IM=intra muscular

glucose tabs only won't be enough after insulin shot,your gonna need dextrose powder about 10gram for each 1iu of slin.

with 4iu of hgh,your best bet is to shoot 2iu upon awakening and 2iu early afternoon. except when on slin then AM and pwo.

-rodge

[Gear]

to all that say "there are BB'RS who have become dependent"....NAME THEM AND STATE HOW YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.

On of the Aussie pros (I don't wanna mention names as I think it's not fair to them) I know is one of the many bodybuilders that became dependant. He was pretty bad actually as he got to the point where he couldn't drive a car as his vision was too blurry. This is a common side effect. I am sure there are many more out there but I can't excatly remember their names, however, the Aus pro I just mentioned is def one of them, I know that much.

The following links lead to articles that state insulin can lead to becoming diabetic. Just to let you know that we are not the only ones that think that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3123545.stm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catinsulin.htm

I have been using 12ius pwo for damn near 17 months..I am fine. THIS IS TRUE AND FACTUAL INFORMATION RIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

Just because you have survived running slin for that long, it doesn't mean everybody else will/would. You don't have the proof stating it's ok to run slin for as long was you want without becoming dependant, so you don't really know yourself do you? And also, perhaps it takes a long time to become dependant, a lot longer than you have ran slin for, so I wouldn't be too confident on thinking you can't become dependant.

YOUS WANT TO RUN IT 4 ON/OFF, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT,BUT DONT SPREAD RUMORS ABOUT THINGS YOU CANT PROVE.

No rumors mate, just recomendations based on what people are most happy with. We are not saying if you run slin longer than 4 weeks in a row that you will become dependant. All we are saying is the 4 ON/OFF theory is what we recomend as that is what has worked best for most.

Bro, at the end of day, all I am saying is that I am "under the impression" that it's possible to become dependant. That is what I believe. I am not 100% stating anything, or spreading rumors.

-Gear