GH EOD, who's doing it and what are your results?

[bolin]

thank you... then i will start with 2 iu and go up to 4iu e/d for 6 months

i hope i see the results

[Pinnacle]

Just a quick reminder to all that read this. I/We are not trying to start an epidemic here. A lot of theories and methods evolve from "board talk" so we're trying to figure out what is the best possible way to administer GH with minimal sides. There is plenty of research that shows EOD would be effective. Will lt? We shall soon see...........

If you have never tried GH dont go srtaight into EOD b/c certain people are. EOD has never been mentioned on this board since I"ve been on it until the past month or so (from my understanding). So now that its being brought I'm afriad we're going to be getting all these posts on why is EOD better then a split on a daily basis. In reality no one can say 100% for sure which way is better. Thats why this entire trial and error phase is taking plase. To see what works better for the individual.

So for those that have just started GH or really enjoy a 5/2 or 6/1 split then stick with it. And definitely the people that are taking a moderate dose for "fat loss" stick with what you're doing. This method is not for the financially hindered individual nor a beginner. 800iu's is going to last me 6 months, so depending on what you pay it can put a nice dent in your fanny pack..............................

Good post Jay!Sort of a problem when ppl discuss things like this.It gets taken out of text.Just like the high dose,short cycle threads.I must have recieved a zillion PM's asking if "I run 100 mgs ED of Test will I get the results you guys are getting"?.....lol....

Threads like that are fun for discussion,but IMO they are dangerous.Especially on newbie boards like this.

~Pinnacle~

[bolin]

hey pin.... is my cycle i wrote above good for a GH newbie?? thanks

[Pinnacle]

hey pin.... is my cycle i wrote above good for a GH newbie?? thanks

Yes...just ramp your doses up slowly.2 iu's for 2 months,then 3 iu's for a month to see how you react,then move on to the 4 iu mark.

Good luck with it!!


~Pinnacle~

[SPIKE]

Threads like that are fun for discussion,but IMO they are dangerous.Especially on newbie boards like this.

I started to really realize the influence boards could have on people when I was getting PM's about running various gear at high doses. Primarily 100mcg+ a week of LR3 due to my dose. In my case I see much better results the higher I go but that doesnt mean 40mcg wont produce results. PLenty of guys that dont need to go over 40mcg to meet thier needs. I for one needed a higher dose but wouldnt recommend it for all.



Primo anyone?

[Pinnacle]

Primo anyone?

LOL...we might have to change you screen name to Gayhova16..lmao...



~Pinnacle~

[IBdmfkr]

lol LONG LIVE PRIMO!

[Pinnacle]

lol LONG LIVE PRIMO!

He's another one....IBgay just showed up...lmao....

[IBdmfkr]

lmao, don't forget goosey

[goose]

I have quit my primo cycle,it`s weak and poor....I want to be a man!!

NEXT

[IBdmfkr]

haha, jumpin on the train. CHUUU CHUUUU!!

[goose]

I TELL you what is gay: IGF.....now that is a gay hormone...for sure....a pussy drug..

goose4..

[SPIKE]

He's another one....IBgay just showed up

LOL...we might have to change you screen name to Gayhova16..

Those are actually pretty Good Pinn



Way to whore up a good thread guys. Waaaaaaaaaaay toooo gooooo. I'd expect it from Pinn but IBD and Goose?? SHeeeeeeeeez

[bolin]

hey guys.......so when I am up to 3iu or 4 iu, I tak 2iu in the morning and the rest before the gym session??

And my friend told me that GH is dangerous because it can enlarge you inner organs too..... I mean I know they have to... if you grow, they have to grow... but is this a dangerous issue??

THanks guys

[justtrnd40]

I don't think at that dose you have to worry about organs growing.

[DEVLDOG]

without doubt you can, ive done it and many more have, if you prime your body correctly and its fresh it will grow at a fast rate in a short period of time, if you look at babys growth chart they grow very fast for only a week at a time, its impossible to carry on growing your body gets use to the compounds and gets flooded but it can jump in new muscle tissue in a short period, ive done many 20-25weekers and ive changed compounds to free up test and still your body just gets flooded,i will say it again the dosages are based on your own cycle history and not what other BB's are using, depends what stage you are at to determine the dose, also you dont carry on taking high amounts for future cycles infact a very small amounts are taken, remember with this method you dont have to keep increasing the dose with every cycle you do, recovery and maintainace are far better than bridging/coasting

while your theory is a good one,it is just that "your theory"..I have read many times of independent studies done based just on what you speak of.
the growth spurts we exhibit as babies/children were hormonely reproduced with the use of Testosterone and GH as they would be while developing at an early age.all the studies were very disappointing to make a long story short.
dont ask me to post them,I cant remember where i read them.but i did.not saying they are true and complete,but its out there.
I myself favor loooooonnnngggg cycles(dont even like the word cycle as thats not what i do) from my experience the results have been better "FOR ME" to stay on continuous running heavy "cycles" off and on for 16 weeks at a time and running low dose test(500mg/week) in between.going no longer then 8 weeks between heavy cycles.been doing this for 18 months now.will continue for another 42 months and then re-evaluate.

[goose]

Interview with Paul Borresen,a true Genuis,try and get his books and videos.The king of short cycles.........



NM: First, Paul, how are you feeling? I heard that you suffered an accident recently.

PB: Yes, I took a nasty fall and was laid up for four-and-a-half months. It required major surgery. For a long time, I was in a full body brace. While in the hospital, I went down to 170 pounds! I recovered quickly but, of course, I was receiving glutamine, Deca , and growth hormone ! It was no problem getting it into the hospital. Since then, I've entered some area contests and won, but my goal is to come back from having a broken back and win the Nationals.

NM: Any innovative substances that you've been experimenting with?

PB: Whenever there's anything new, I'll try it! You know of the new oils used to inflate a muscle, like Synthol? Well, I've put together a combination of oils in my lab that contains nandrolone , benzyl alcohol, and silica gel. It provides a permanent growth due to the fact that the silica coats the muscle fibers. But it also gives you 300 milligrams of gear per milliliter. It's really amazing, but it can be overdone, as in the case of Ernie Taylor. Have you seen his triceps?

NM: Of course. They're so freaky, they look "fake."

PB: They don't look right. That's an example of an overdone local effect. As far as anything else new, I've been experimenting with prostaglandins since '95. When I won the Northwest Championship, I had six milliliters of Cavajet, which is something that's used to get an erection. But I didn't need it there, so I put it in my arms and shoulders! I've been working with people using Prostaglandins before going to bed at night, and we've seen phenomenal results. They can also be used to provide "local" enlargement. I use it to smooth out my symmetry.

NM: Were there any side effects?

PB: I don't feel that the claims of bad side effects are all that genuine. If you look at the risks and side effects of pharmacology as a whole, prostaglandins fall pretty low down on the list.

NM: What's the typical drug regime of some of the people you coach?

PB: I'm coaching people who use two thousand milligrams of gear each day. They're very big. If you're going to take that level of anabolics, I believe in very short courses—thirty days, at the most, before your body realizes what happened. I'm a firm believer that receptor sites up-regulate. When you do about 5000 milligrams a week, they respond unbelievably. People are going up a pound a day for 18 days straight.

NM: So by using super-physiologic dosages and keeping cycles short, you won't need to increase the dosages with each successive cycle?

PB: You should need less! It's like training. A newcomer does 16 sets and makes gains. The more advanced someone is, the less amount of sets they need to do. I only do about four or five sets. I'm helping Ian Harrison prepare for the Arnold, and he needs even fewer sets per workout.

NM: How long of a wait do you recommend before starting another course?

PB: At least 15 days, which comes to 21 days after your last shot. But if you wait too much longer than three weeks, you're going backwards in your progress. You'll spend time "making up" for what you've lost, even if you use anti-catabolics.

NM: Tell me a little about your company. How did it get started?

PB: A few years back, my wife and I started a company called Chemical Nutrition. Unfortunately, we took on a partner of dubious integrity. It got so bad that he threatened to put me in a body bag! I ended that relationship and started Biohazard. We've been growing very quickly in the UK, and I'm glad to say that my ex-partner's business is declining badly. I don't follow a business "strategy." I focus on culture. I want to make the best products. I won't bullshit anyone or let anyone work for me who isn't honest. I have an MBA degree, and my business philosophy is not to build an empire; rather, we want to build many castles. I want to make money, but I have to look at myself in the mirror every day. I have to respect what I see.

NM: What is the most unique Biohazard product?

PB: We have something called Ravenger 5, which is a special grade of protein powder. It has the exact amino acid make-up, in proprietary order, of human muscle—the only product of its kind. It took a lot of work getting the proper ratios required. We finally came up with a combination of whey, egg albumin, soy isolate, and wheat gluten. The glutamine is not a free form because protein works best in a natural peptide chain. I'm not a big fan of aminos in free form.

NM: You've been outspoken in the past about professional bodybuilders. You made some statements recently concerning Paul Dillett...

PB: I have nothing personal against him. He doesn't train all that hard. He's very lazy. I don't like it when bodybuilders rely on massive amounts of gear and don't train correctly or look after their health. Everyone I work with uses high androgens, and we take certain precautions. I have them all on glycerin. It reduces water and blood pressure. It's an indigestible carb, which causes water to be drawn from the surrounding tissues like the skin. It also increases vascularity.

NM: What is your current stack?

PB: For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca, 400 mg of Primobolan , and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol , and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin . I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.

NM: Gee, is that all?

PB: That's what it takes. I want to make the most massive gains possible. I've gained 94 pounds in the last five months. Oh, I almost forgot—I also use growth hormone four days at a time, which is the way a child produces it, in four-day spurts. It doesn't work as well if you stay on it all the time. Consistent use suppresses your natural GH secretion, plus you build up a tolerance to its effects. I use 12 IUs of GH each day I use it.

NM: No cycling down the dosages of the steroid stack?

PB: No, I just stop. I don't feel that there's much benefit from cycling down. By distancing the shots and the half-life of the drugs, a "cycle down" occurs naturally. I want to clean out as soon as possible. When people stick in low levels of gear in order to "bridge," they're not clearing anything.

NM: Any anti-estrogens?

PB: Aminoglutathiamide is terrific when used the last ten days before a show. It makes you freaky hard. It's a pretty risky drug, however. The ACTH [Adrenal Corticol Tropic Hormone] kickback can create a bigger problem than what you started with. It's a gamble. I use Tamoxifen , 40 mg a day before bed, if I start to get too puffy.

NM: I noticed that you don't use any orals.

PB: For what I use, it wouldn't be healthy. I would hate to take 2,000 mg of 2-mg Anavar tablets!

NM: Definitely not practical. No veterinarian steroids ?

PB: No. One thing I've learned from my studies in pharmacology is that mammalian physiology may be similar, but there are species differences. A veterinarian drug is developed through veterinarian research by companies that design it for animals. There aren't any studies of their effectiveness in humans. You need much higher doses than the proper human equivalent. A dog's testosterone would work in a human, just not as effectively. Since I can't control what's compatible and what isn't, I won't use them.

NM: Is there really any way of detecting counterfeits?

PB: It's so easy to fake the ampoules and boxes. Whenever you see an exposé of what is fake and how a "real" steroid should look, the counterfeiters just copy the "real" one. There are a few tricks. For example, Primo shouldn't fall out when you turn the box upside down.

NM: Unless the dealer has pulled the vial out a few times.

PB: That's a good point. In that case, it could be real, but you'd think it was fake. There's just no way of knowing. Some guys over here copied the pink pentagon Thai D-bol and put 5 mg of clenbuterol in them.

NM: Five milligrams?! My God, did anyone die?

PB: There were nine reported deaths. I took one, and went into the hospital.

NM: What's your present association with Dorian Yates?

PB: I take a phone call from Dorian every couple of weeks about technical matters. He'll usually have me come down to his house and ask me about various drugs. I showed him how to use growth hormone and IGF. I helped him with his DNP usage for his last Olympia show. I can honestly say that DNP can produce a condition that's unbelievable, but you've got to get it right! I find it horrendous. My temperature went up to 103 degrees. I was sick, and it felt like I was on fire.

NM: So in the future, will you just stick to using clen ?

PB: No, I'd still use the DNP. I'll just suffer. It can make you lose five pounds of fat in a week. My waist is 31 inches. That's also one benefit of being in the hospital. I had to have two ribs removed, which made my waist slimmer. Cher had a similar surgical procedure done on her to produce a longer torso look. I love it!

NM: What is the best steroid, in your opinion?

PB: If I had to recommend just one, I'd have to say that Deca has the best risk to benefit ratio. But my absolute favorite drug is Primobolan.

NM: I love Primo, too. People think it's weak because it doesn't produce water weight. Deca, on the other hand, bloats me as much as straight testosterone.

PB: You're telling me! Deca is very bloating. Not all tests cause as much water retention. But some people seem to go for that bloat, don't they? They equate it with more size.

NM: What drugs don't you like?

PB: I don't like testosterone cypionate . It's a very raw drug. It also makes you depressed. Anadrol is a shit drug. The fact that it's a 50-mg tablet tells you how weak it is.Halotestin at 50-mg is a different gravy.



NM: Thank you! It's nice to know I'm not alone in that evaluation.

PB: It's so obvious. Anadrol is designed to correct anemia. It builds red blood cells. It does not build muscle. It may help at the end of a course to "fill up" on blood, which may help you to hold on to the gained weight. It's a poor man's EPO [erythropoietin]. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I'd design a drug and call it Super-bol 5,000,000! Everyone will think it's really strong!

People have so much of this stuff wrong. They think that Primo's weak, when it's actually very strong. They say that Anadrol is powerful, when it's actually very weak. Cypionate is more popular than enanthate , but the enanthate is terrific and cyp is crap. They draw conclusions without really understanding basic pharmacology.


NM: Does it make sense not to stack too many different steroids?

PB: All steroids compete with each other. That's why I say to take Sus for ten days, then Deca for ten days, and so on. Proviron is thought to be an anti-estrogen, but it's really an anti-androgen. Clomid is an underrated anti-estrogen.

NM: How does Clomid differ from Cyclofenil ?

PB: Cyclofenil is a weak estrogen. Even if it competes for estrogen sites, some might get through. Clomid removes the estrogen, so it's much more effective.

NM: Who's the most outrageous steroid abuser you've ever known?

PB: I'd love to say, but I can't.

NM: You don't have to name names.

PB: Okay, the craziest thing that I've ever seen was done by a British pro. He takes a 100-ml bottle and sticks whatever he can get into it, no matter what. Deca, cyp, Equipoise , anything! He'll then take a five-ml shot of that every three hours.

NM: Wow!

PB: He'll also put in ten mg of propionate every day into specific body parts. He doesn't consider that a part of his stack because it's "locating." He does a total of at least 60 shots a day.

NM: That's mind-boggling. How does he look?

PB: Pretty ****ing awesome!

NM: No doubt! Paul, are there any last comments that you'd like to make?

PB: I just want to be able to provide accurate information and sell products that I know are effective. My motto is, "Ignorance kills—let's kill ignorance." I honestly believe that if we give the people the right information, we'll build this sport. There are a lot of assholes with too much power in our sport!

NM: I agree. We're doing what we can on this end. I hope that you'll be able to be a regular contributor to Testosterone. Your expertise is invaluable, and I'm sure that our readers will enjoy what you have to say.

PB: I'd love to write for you guys, and providing honest information to people who care is the right reason for doing so.

NM: Paul, I know that there's still so much we could talk about. Let's do this again sometime.

PB: That'd be great.


Whew! Did anybody out there get hurt? I'm sure that I don't have to offer a disclaimer to the drug dosages that Paul has advocated. This is obviously for the most advanced bodybuilder with extensive experience in chemical assistance. Nevertheless, Paul's comprehension of the subject is unquestionably vast, and I'm sure that he's left more than a few people with their heads spinning.

Class dismissed.

[oldman]

PB: For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca, 400 mg of Primobolan, and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol, and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin. I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.

This is what I am doing on my next cycle.

Oh BTW you are all invited to my funeral.. Holy Crap that is a lot..


Oldman

[goose]

This is what I am doing on my next cycle.

Oh BTW you are all invited to my funeral.. Holy Crap that is a lot..


Oldman

These are the type of cycles that made Dorian the beast he was,short cycles.


goose4..

[marcus300]

while your theory is a good one,it is just that "your theory"..I have read many times of independent studies done based just on what you speak of.
the growth spurts we exhibit as babies/children were hormonely reproduced with the use of Testosterone and GH as they would be while developing at an early age.all the studies were very disappointing to make a long story short.
dont ask me to post them,I cant remember where i read them.but i did.not saying they are true and complete,but its out there.
I myself favor loooooonnnngggg cycles(dont even like the word cycle as thats not what i do) from my experience the results have been better "FOR ME" to stay on continuous running heavy "cycles" off and on for 16 weeks at a time and running low dose test(500mg/week) in between.going no longer then 8 weeks between heavy cycles.been doing this for 18 months now.will continue for another 42 months and then re-evaluate.

sorry dont agree, i am a firm believer in the short cycle theory, each to there own

[marcus300]

These are the type of cycles that made Dorian the beast he was,short cycles.


goose4..

we know so does Dorian

[Big Bapper]

These are the type of cycles that made Dorian the beast he was,short cycles.


goose4..

How do you know what Dorian used ??

[Big Bapper]

EOD injections seems to be the way to go, have been using them for 2 weeks now and am enjoying the results. Like I said I am pre-comp now and I weigh myself first thing in the morning and after shooting 12iu GH the day before I am up a few lbs. Maybe its water who knows but I think higher dose EOD is working better than 6iu ED. By the way I am 29 years young.

[vitor]

So "Paul Borresen" favourite drug is primo!

Smart people know a good drug when they see one!!!

[DEVLDOG]

If Im not mistaken,and im just about 100% sure im not...Paul Borreson DIED in 2001 from a DRUG OVERDOSE of all things...GO FIGURE !!

his theorys have been proven wrong many times over the years.

[DEVLDOG]

here you go

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabo...ssue47_MAD.htm

[justtrnd40]

If Im not mistaken,and im just about 100% sure im not...Paul Borreson DIED in 2001 from a DRUG OVERDOSE of all things...GO FIGURE !!

his theorys have been proven wrong many times over the years.

No shit? is this true?

[DEVLDOG]

sorry dont agree, i am a firm believer in the short cycle theory, each to there own

thats fine my man,you do what works for you and ill do what works for me.

[DEVLDOG]

No shit? is this true?

read the link bro,he was a quack

[marcus300]

read the link bro,he was a quack

if you dont know the full story you shouldnt really comment on someones death, paul was disliked by many because he was so open to the people he use to help, top level bodybuilder dont like to be known as to taking gear, sponsers do not like it, dorian was told to drop paul otherwise he wouldnt have a chance to get to the top, but they were still in contact every day,

he was amazing man who was years ahead of the game many top bb's have made this known.
pauls broke his back and was in alot of pain even with all the pain killers he was using he still found it hard to train but he couldnt stop training it was his life, he overdosed on pain killers because of the pain was to much,
his theory has been proven many times by top level BB's, also afew advance bb on this site have tried this type of cycling with amazing results, the people know what i am talking about who have tried it, i do understand tho its not for everybody, like i say each to there own, i have done many cycles over the years and have kept a gear diary and everytime i look back over the cycles the short intense ones have always been better for recovery/maintainance and new muscle tissue.

the body can grow very fast in a short period of time but it cant carry on growing for weeks on end, its easier to recover and maintain and no need to bridge/cruising

[DEVLDOG]

like I said my man,you do what works for you and I'll do the same.

I only know what I read,sorry if this guy was your your idol or something.he's still a quack if you ask me.I been around this for over 20yrs.I know all about him.I didnt just make this judgement in the 5 minutes I wasted reading this thread.you want to believe his theory,then by all means.have at it.no one is stopping you.

[marcus300]

like I said my man,you do what works for you and I'll do the same.

I only know what I read,sorry if this guy was your your idol or something.he's still a quack if you ask me.I been around this for over 20yrs.I know all about him.I didnt just make this judgement in the 5 minutes I wasted reading this thread.you want to believe his theory,then by all means.have at it.no one is stopping you.

fair enough, but you should never dismiss anything in bodybuilding,
i understand your judgement on him but there were reason why some people wrote that stuff, i believe his theory works without doubt as do many others, its built many top level BB's but like we say each to their own, good luck with your future cycles

[DEVLDOG]

fair enough, but you should never dismiss anything in bodybuilding,
i understand your judgement on him but there were reason why some people wrote that stuff, i believe his theory works without doubt as do many others, its built many top level BB's but like we say each to their own, good luck with your future cycles

I didnt dismiss it,not at all.
what i said basically is that it works for you and probably others,and I know you too have been at this a while.but for me I found what works and I will stick with that.
just as there are people who swear IGF is a waste,well I had tremendous results using it...everyone is indeed different.

I dont dismiss anything,but at the same time I dont believe everything until I try it for myself.

fair enough?

[marcus300]

I didnt dismiss it,not at all.
what i said basically is that it works for you and probably others,and I know you too have been at this a while.but for me I found what works and I will stick with that.
just as there are people who swear IGF is a waste,well I had tremendous results using it...everyone is indeed different.

I dont dismiss anything,but at the same time I dont believe everything until I try it for myself.

fair enough?

agreed...

if you havent tried it i hope you do one day.

[xmutation]

Just a quick reminder to all that read this. I/We are not trying to start an epidemic here. A lot of theories and methods evolve from "board talk" so we're trying to figure out what is the best possible way to administer GH with minimal sides. There is plenty of research that shows EOD would be effective. Will lt? We shall soon see...........

If you have never tried GH dont go srtaight into EOD b/c certain people are. EOD has never been mentioned on this board since I"ve been on it until the past month or so (from my understanding). So now that its being brought I'm afriad we're going to be getting all these posts on why is EOD better then a split on a daily basis. In reality no one can say 100% for sure which way is better. Thats why this entire trial and error phase is taking plase. To see what works better for the individual.

So for those that have just started GH or really enjoy a 5/2 or 6/1 split then stick with it. And definitely the people that are taking a moderate dose for "fat loss" stick with what you're doing. This method is not for the financially hindered individual nor a beginner. 800iu's is going to last me 6 months, so depending on what you pay it can put a nice dent in your fanny pack..............................

bizantine question ?

[xmutation]

I didnt dismiss it,not at all.
what i said basically is that it works for you and probably others,and I know you too have been at this a while.but for me I found what works and I will stick with that.
just as there are people who swear IGF is a waste,well I had tremendous results using it...everyone is indeed different.

I dont dismiss anything,but at the same time I dont believe everything until I try it for myself.

fair enough?

of course,bacteriostatic water make tremendous results for me !

[Pinnacle]

agreed...

if you havent tried it i hope you do one day.

I'm pleased with my results thus far Other than the vivid nightmares,all is going well.


~Pinnacle~

[marcus300]

I'm pleased with my results thus far Other than the vivid nightmares,all is going well.


~Pinnacle~

the big man has spoken, now everybody will listen now
thanks pinn

[vitor]

Paul Borresen said in the interview, that Proviron is an "anti-androgen"???
What does that mean?

Proviron is used in medicine with people who are defficent in androgens to threat impotence, among other things!

Most have been a typo mistake!!

[Pinnacle]

the big man has spoken, now everybody will listen now
thanks pinn

NO...NO ....NO...I'm not E.F Hutton (remember that old commercial,anyone?)