HGH Better EOD not ED !!!!

[5minsforfighting]

Found this posted on another site .... found it very intersting .....



A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in
the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower
your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic
short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who
may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH
was the same for both groups.

Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended.
They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years
with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD
Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.

Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score
for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.

During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment.
The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy.
The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater
than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).

At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater
than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only
negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term
results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
it every day.

The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections.
Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels
and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected.
Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days
even after long-term hGH therapy.

The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in
selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile
pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections
do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak
levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be
regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses,
with a frequency of about eight per day."
"Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward
hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in
therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target
tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest
with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy
with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:
"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree,
"Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the
hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (, indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
at the target organ level (9). "

An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be

hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day,
split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am)
and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm).
This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
can utilize at once

Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc..
So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on
hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional
bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the
nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment.
Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having:
Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH.
Slow recovery
Decline in resting cardiac output
Increase fat mass
Decrease in metabolic rate
Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest
our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient
and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the
duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well
hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically
a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by
Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573
With references to 23 studies.

Here are some interesting graphs:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721002.gif
This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the
end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment)
The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections,
note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed
to the alternate day group.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721003.gif
This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with
alternate GH injections and daily injections.
The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections.
In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively
small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years
after withdrawal of the treatment. The EOD group shows

[MMA]

last year called and wants its thread back. do a search, we thoroughly debated this a long time ago. the rest of the boards are just starting to catch up and talk about this. TTT for the high quality of the AR GH experts!

[MMA]

if you read it carefully, the results are actually a lot more complicated than that, and explained a lot about how GH works. the ED group actually gained MORE....during the cycle. and engogenous GH production returned to normal almost immmediately....but the ED subjects were now RESISTANT to GH (for a LONG time) and so the EOD group made more net gains....AFTER the cycle was over. this just goes to show that just because different substances build muscle and burn fat, you can't fall into the trap of thinking of them like just a different kind of AS.

appparently, with GH, getting shut down is not the problem, its building up GH resistance. the 5/2 with occasional breaks may already have solved the problem (the study only compared ED vs EOD, not the 5/2 plus breaks that we use).

[MMA]

last year called and wants its thread back. do a search, we thoroughly debated this a long time ago. the rest of the boards are just starting to catch up and talk about this. TTT for the high quality of the AR GH experts!

i apologize to 5minutes for fighting if this remark was a little flip. this kind of posting of relevent medical studies is actually very important to making this board work as well as it does, and he should be applauded for taking the initiative to post something groundbreaking, even if it turned out to be a repost. thats the spirit that makes AR great!

[SPIKE]

last year called and wants its thread back.

, yea this is an oldie.

Found this posted on another site .... found it very intersting .....



The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

I'll leave it at that.

[5minsforfighting]

I did search and i didnt see it posted ... next time ill be more careful ...

[MMA]

don't worry about it, we're just being pricks

[Ufa]

In the long run it does not matter. I wish they had studies with out little kids.

[IBdmfkr]

I like running it ED during PCT and I enjoyed EOD during cycle.

[Ufa]

Yea, ED during per cent rules. Helps heal.

[Big Bapper]

don't worry about it, we're just being pricks

LOL..........I like the higher dose EOD, I am now running it E3D at 12iu and am likeing the results.

[goose]

LOL..........I like the higher dose EOD, I am now running it E3D at 12iu and am likeing the results.

Thats cool,what made you decide to do this?

[SPIKE]

I did search and i didnt see it posted ... next time ill be more careful ...

Dont sweat it buddy, we're just busting them on ya as MMA stated.

[Big Bapper]

Thats cool,what made you decide to do this?

Just experimenting with different methods of dosing as knowone seems to be able to agree on the best way to use GH. I have tried most ways of dosing GH and timing of shots. When I am done hopefully I will have found a method that works the best(well for me anyway). Today I am going to bump up the dose too 16iu taken 4X4iu shots. Then Thursday I will do the same I will let you know how it goes goose.

[goose]

Just experimenting with different methods of dosing as knowone seems to be able to agree on the best way to use GH. I have tried most ways of dosing GH and timing of shots. When I am done hopefully I will have found a method that works the best(well for me anyway). Today I am going to bump up the dose too 16iu taken 4X4iu shots. Then Thursday I will do the same I will let you know how it goes goose.

Thanks for that,it`s very hard to decide which is the best method.In the last 4 months I have been changing things up dramatically but have been getting great results Whatever I have been doing.It`s all about running high doses this will get you great results,it`s one of the compounds like primo and winny the higher the better.The key is to hunt for the safe compounds and hit them very hard and HGH is one of them for me,and I`m making very fast Progress.

[IBdmfkr]

What does your GH schedule look like Goose?

[goose]

What does your GH schedule look like Goose?

Well I`m currently on my break,I cycle HGH 10 months on.It`s like this bro with the exotics,I truly Believe in HGH,I`m putting all my money and effort to get this right.Slin and IGF are not for me,I will be using EPO soon as that will help my Training in recovery unlike slin,MR yates loved EPO.I must get my 11 hours sleep each day,thats why I dont use tren .You need great sleep to grow.This means I`m 13 hours awake per day.This is how I will run HGH when I get back on it,as I`m looking to get to the next level,it`s my time to shine.

In the first 3 hours being awake I shoot 3iu,this leaves me with 10 hours left in the day,every 2 and half hours I shoot 3iu which totals to 5 shots at 15iu per day.I will do this 6 days per week.

[IBdmfkr]

Thanks for the breakdown goose, let us know how it goes!

Btw, can you explain the 11hrs/night sleep theory.. I feel as if 8-9hrs is plenty, 11 is hard to obtain with work,life etc

[goose]

Thanks for the breakdown goose, let us know how it goes!

Btw, can you explain the 11hrs/night sleep theory.. I feel as if 8-9hrs is plenty, 11 is hard to obtain with work,life etc

Yes you are correct....8-9 hours is a decent amount...I remember reading an interview with jay cutler and he said he slept 10-11 hours per day,and I was like shit I sleep that amount.I know most people would find this amount of sleep to much and Actually could not sleep this amount,but I have the luxury of free time being self employed.They always say a madman is only at peace when he is a sleep

[vitor]

Well I`m currently on my break,I cycle HGH 10 months on.It`s like this bro with the exotics,I truly Believe in HGH,I`m putting all my money and effort to get this right.Slin and IGF are not for me,I will be using EPO soon as that will help my Training in recovery unlike slin,MR yates loved EPO.I must get my 11 hours sleep each day,thats why I dont use tren .You need great sleep to grow.This means I`m 13 hours awake per day.This is how I will run HGH when I get back on it,as I`m looking to get to the next level,it`s my time to shine.

In the first 3 hours being awake I shoot 3iu,this leaves me with 10 hours left in the day,every 2 and half hours I shoot 3iu which totals to 5 shots at 15iu per day.I will do this 6 days per week.

So you are using 15iu ed 6on/1off for 10 mounths out of the year?
Are you seeing clear LBM gains from this GH dose alone? (not counting the steroids )

I wish I could afford that too, you have to be rich...

[ward065]

woah! sleeping for 11 hours a day......i can't do that. 8-9 hours and i feel very well rested- sometimes with as little as 7 hours i feel perfectly fine and awake, provided that i sleep for 7 hours straight (I'm on GH now, much lower dose than you as it's my first time and i have been sleeping very soundly).

At the moment i have a lot of free time for more sleep -technically i could sleep like 11-12 hours a day if i wanted to. And yet 8-9 hours of sleep is plenty for me, if i try to sleep longer than that i will just stay awake. The only time i need 12 hours + of sleep is if i am very sick- and maybe if i slept very poorly the night before and was out late (say i slept 3-4 hours one night), i may want about 10-11 hours of sleep the next night.

Hard training makes me tired, but again 8-9 hours and i am very well rested 95% of the time. I probably average 8:20 per night of sleep.

[goose]

So you are using 15iu ed 6on/1off for 10 mounths out of the year?
Are you seeing clear LBM gains from this GH dose alone? (not counting the steroids )

I wish I could afford that too, you have to be rich...

From my Experience and talking to high level athletes the HGH cycle I`m planning is Professional.I have not done something quite like this vitor,but have been on 10iu each day full time and have seen increase in LBM not being in a cycle.I have proved with my body you don`t need slin and you don`t need T3 to get Fantastic results with your HGH.It will take me 2 months to reach the doses above,so really it will be 8 months at these doses.Now that I know how to cycle with the short cycle Concept and the use of DNP (low dose 200) in a cutter,this means I can get the results of a 12 weeks cutter in half the time resulting in a safer cycle as I`m only on gear 6 weeks as Opposed 12 weeks.Also the benefits are huge in that my receptors will be more fresh being on gear less,in these 10 months I only plan to be on gear 4 months,but in these months I will manipulate my body to respond in the anabolic environment correctly.I am not rich!!!! I dont own a car,I dont own a house like many here,I cant afford to have kids,I dont have much,I spend all my money for the love of this game,I just can`t stop yet.

[Equiguns]

hows DNP (low dose) and hgh in a cutter? I have been thinking of getting my hands on some DNP to add to my hgh...hgh is great but DNP will allow a little 15 pound boost in my fat burning progress. Can DNP be made fairly easily in a college or hospital lab facility?

[MMA]

From my Experience and talking to high level athletes the HGH cycle I`m planning is Professional.I have not done something quite like this vitor,but have been on 10iu each day full time and have seen increase in LBM not being in a cycle.I have proved with my body you don`t need slin and you don`t need T3 to get Fantastic results with your HGH.It will take me 2 months to reach the doses above,so really it will be 8 months at these doses.Now that I know how to cycle with the short cycle Concept and the use of DNP (low dose 200) in a cutter,this means I can get the results of a 12 weeks cutter in half the time resulting in a safer cycle as I`m only on gear 6 weeks as Opposed 12 weeks.Also the benefits are huge in that my receptors will be more fresh being on gear less,in these 10 months I only plan to be on gear 4 months,but in these months I will manipulate my body to respond in the anabolic environment correctly.I am not rich!!!! I dont own a car,I dont own a house like many here,I cant afford to have kids,I dont have much,I spend all my money for the love of this game,I just can`t stop yet.

its not the kind of car you drive, its the size of the arm hanging out the window!

[MMA]

From my Experience and talking to high level athletes the HGH cycle I`m planning is Professional.I have not done something quite like this vitor,but have been on 10iu each day full time and have seen increase in LBM not being in a cycle.I have proved with my body you don`t need slin and you don`t need T3 to get Fantastic results with your HGH.It will take me 2 months to reach the doses above,so really it will be 8 months at these doses.Now that I know how to cycle with the short cycle Concept and the use of DNP (low dose 200) in a cutter,this means I can get the results of a 12 weeks cutter in half the time resulting in a safer cycle as I`m only on gear 6 weeks as Opposed 12 weeks.Also the benefits are huge in that my receptors will be more fresh being on gear less,in these 10 months I only plan to be on gear 4 months,but in these months I will manipulate my body to respond in the anabolic environment correctly.I am not rich!!!! I dont own a car,I dont own a house like many here,I cant afford to have kids,I dont have much,I spend all my money for the love of this game,I just can`t stop yet.

i find your dedication very admirable (he'll be a dealer with a cadillac within a year )

[Big Bapper]

its not the kind of car you drive, its the size of the arm hanging out the window!

LOL. You must have the best one liners on the board MMA. In Regards to sleep I think everyone is different, some can get by on as little as 6 hours every night. When others like Goose need 11 hours. Thanks for shareing your GH protocal with us Goose.........................Its got me thinking what if.......UHoh Here we go again !!!

[Seattle Junk]

From my Experience and talking to high level athletes the HGH cycle I`m planning is Professional.I have not done something quite like this vitor,but have been on 10iu each day full time and have seen increase in LBM not being in a cycle.I have proved with my body you don`t need slin and you don`t need T3 to get Fantastic results with your HGH.It will take me 2 months to reach the doses above,so really it will be 8 months at these doses.Now that I know how to cycle with the short cycle Concept and the use of DNP (low dose 200) in a cutter,this means I can get the results of a 12 weeks cutter in half the time resulting in a safer cycle as I`m only on gear 6 weeks as Opposed 12 weeks.Also the benefits are huge in that my receptors will be more fresh being on gear less,in these 10 months I only plan to be on gear 4 months,but in these months I will manipulate my body to respond in the anabolic environment correctly.I am not rich!!!! I dont own a car,I dont own a house like many here,I cant afford to have kids,I dont have much,I spend all my money for the love of this game,I just can`t stop yet.

How long do you take DNP ? I found 2 weeks is the best for me. I went 3 weeks and the 3rd week was not effective like the first 2. I was thinking about doing DNP on my GH cycle....