Humulin-R + Ketogenic diet

[Antonio Vilhena]

What if I take Humulin-R (15 iu) right after my morning train with my protein and complex and simple carbsmeal, but then I plan on reducing my carbs along the day (eating about 300 gr/day) and raising my protein intake instead, with a 2 iu shot, each meal, and then cut the carbs completely off from 6 PM on. Surely I´ll have a candy bar or a carb drink close enough just in case something goes wrong...
What you guys think the results would be like? I wonder if this will get me larger and more ripped...

[HORSE~]

Try posting this in the insulin hgh forum.

[Antonio Vilhena]

Thank you.

[SPIKE]

What you guys think the results would be like?

Have you ever taken Slin?

Do you realize the active life of Humalin-R? Taking 2iu with each meal will overlap the life of the drug and your BG levels will be taken for a ride.

IMO this is a horrible idea. What are your exact goals?

[Antonio Vilhena]

I´ve never heard of Slin before... My insulin knowledge is very poor, I´m just getting started with it. Please tell me about BG levels and IMO(?). I know Humulin´s active life lasts for 12 hours, but I´ve been shooting 15 iu after my workouts with my meals and (thank god) no sides at all. Makes me even wonder if this is realy wotking... That´s why I feel like addind some more. I´d realy appreciate if you help me with that. My goal is to put on more mass, but I don´t want get fatter.

[SPIKE]

I´ve never heard of Slin before

Insulin


Start here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=604

Then here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=192403

[Antonio Vilhena]

Thank you bro for the good advice... I´ll take it seriously... One more thing, what´s a BG level and how do I calculate it?

[SPIKE]

what´s a BG level and how do I calculate it?

Blood Glucose levels.

BG monitor can be purchased at any local pharmacy. I always used one at first and now pretty much know my tolerance and dont use it often. Still use it ghere and there to make sure all is ok.

Good Luck!!!

[Antonio Vilhena]

Thank you.

[SPIKE]

All I ask is to let us know how it goes.

Best of Luck.

[oswaldosalcedo]

What if I take Humulin-R (15 iu) right after my morning train with my protein and complex and simple carbsmeal, but then I plan on reducing my carbs along the day (eating about 300 gr/day) and raising my protein intake instead, with a 2 iu shot, each meal, and then cut the carbs completely off from 6 PM on. Surely I´ll have a candy bar or a carb drink close enough just in case something goes wrong...
What you guys think the results would be like? I wonder if this will get me larger and more ripped...

to be a keto diet have to be under 50 gr of carb daily.
i heve done various time ketogenic diet several times, the last one, 2 weeks ago.
i have take slin 6-8 ius with no carbs.
just 50 gr of pro shake (isopure zero carb).
but you are a rookie,you have to learn a lot before use slin.
...and about diets too.

[goose]

to be a keto diet have to be under 50 gr of carb daily.
i heve done various time ketogenic diet several times, the last one, 2 weeks ago.
i have take slin 6-8 ius with no carbs.
just 50 gr of pro shake (isopure zero carb).
but you are a rookie,you have to learn a lot before use slin.
...and about diets too.

When you took slin 6-8 ius with no carbs,did you get any sides?

[goose]

Also ossie...........Do you think slin helps to give you any size.

THANKS bro.

[Bigun]

I have cycled Humalog many times now, with 12-15iu's all I take post shot is a MRP (Met-rx) which contains about 20g of maltodexrose and then 50-60g of isotonic drink and hour later.

I think you need to spend more time researching on here Antonio as slin isnt very forgiving. With Humalog you can control what and when you eat a lot easier than using Humalin R, but again read up on this.

[oswaldosalcedo]

When you took slin 6-8 ius with no carbs,did you get any sides?

slight anxiety.
i like to be more in 6 ius.

[oswaldosalcedo]

Also ossie...........Do you think slin helps to give you any size.

THANKS bro.

sincerely not.
i have used humalog and novolog (a lot!)

thanks for ask me, bro.

[Antonio Vilhena]

Thank you all guys for your time and experience... Oswald is right when he says I´m a rookie. But I´m not stupid to go on this with out doing my search with you guys. That´s why I´m here writing my threads. Knowledge is power. I can´t find Humalog very easyly in (Rio de Janeiro) my hometown and I´ve firtly chosen Humulin for safety reasons. I´m taking 10 iu slin after my WO with oximetolon (hemogenin) 150 mg EOD + 200 cypionate/week. I´m seeing some size and good strengh, but nothing special on my first week. I´ll wait and see for 2 more weeks till I can realy sense and see the thruth. A very famous brazilian bodybuilder heavyweight amateur champion (and close friend of mine) hit on Humalog and almost zeroed her carbs sometime ago. She died before she could make it to the hospital. All the media blamed on AAS... They know nada about this issue and said she died ´cause she was on test and that had caused her a stroke.

[Maldorf]

Thank you all guys for your time and experience... Oswald is right when he says I´m a rookie. But I´m not stupid to go on this with out doing my search with you guys. That´s why I´m here writing my threads. Knowledge is power. I can´t find Humalog very easyly in (Rio de Janeiro) my hometown and I´ve firtly chosen Humulin for safety reasons. I´m taking 10 iu slin after my WO with oximetolon (hemogenin) 150 mg EOD + 200 cypionate/week. I´m seeing some size and good strengh, but nothing special on my first week. I´ll wait and see for 2 more weeks till I can realy sense and see the thruth. A very famous brazilian bodybuilder heavyweight amateur champion (and close friend of mine) hit on Humalog and almost zeroed her carbs sometime ago. She died before she could make it to the hospital. All the media blamed on AAS... They know nada about this issue and said she died ´cause she was on test and that had caused her a stroke.

Do you know more specifics on how she died? I would like to know how much humalog she took and if/or how she tried to correct the problem that her blood sugar was too low. Maybe her death can educate us some. Sorry to hear that you lost your friend, thats a terrible thing.

[Antonio Vilhena]

She was on a pre-contest phase, preparing for Mr. Rio wich is our selective for the national brazilian bodybuilding amateur championship. She was on her way up to become a pro and I guess something went wrong when she realized (I don´t know whrere the hell she got that info from) she might get more cuts if she hit 15 or 20 iu´s (nobody knows for sure ´cause she used to live alone) humalog along with zero carbs - (EG) I have this bodybuilder friend of mine who hits on humulin-R and waits till his sugar gets low enough so he starts feeling some sides and only then he eats lots of red meat. It sounds crazy but last time he did it he was 1 day away from the national tournament and he won as a midleweight. When Lucia´s boyfriend got to her apartment (he must´ve got there I guess 2-3 hours later) it was too late. She was rolling down on the floor shaking and sweating profusely. At first, he told me lately, he thought she was kidding, but after he realized she´d done what she did, he got desperate and took her to the hospital. The guys at the hospital did not have a chance. They said she hadn´t intaken carbs enough to carry oxigen to her brain, so she had a concussion. She died on her half way to the hospital. Everybody got surprised and shoked because you can´t expect that kind of mistake from one who supposely knows everything about it.

[Antonio Vilhena]

Do you know more specifics on how she died? I would like to know how much humalog she took and if/or how she tried to correct the problem that her blood sugar was too low. Maybe her death can educate us some. Sorry to hear that you lost your friend, thats a terrible thing.

She was on a pre-contest phase, preparing for Mr. Rio wich is our selective for the national brazilian bodybuilding amateur championship. She was on her way up to become a pro and I guess something went wrong when she realized (I don´t know whrere the hell she got that info from) she might get more cuts if she hit 15 or 20 iu´s (nobody knows for sure ´cause she used to live alone) humalog along with zero carbs - (EG) I have this bodybuilder friend of mine who hits on humulin-R and waits till his sugar gets low enough so he starts feeling some sides and only then he eats lots of red meat. It sounds crazy but last time he did it he was 1 day away from the national tournament and he won as a midleweight. When Lucia´s boyfriend got to her apartment (he must´ve got there I guess 2-3 hours later) it was too late. She was rolling down on the floor shaking and sweating profusely. At first, he told me lately, he thought she was kidding, but after he realized she´d done what she did, he got desperate and took her to the hospital. The guys at the hospital did not have a chance. They said she hadn´t intaken carbs enough to carry oxigen to her brain, so she had a concussion. She died on her half way to the hospital. Everybody got surprised and shoked because you can´t expect that kind of mistake from one who supposely knows everything about it.

[Gear]

She was on a pre-contest phase, preparing for Mr. Rio wich is our selective for the national brazilian bodybuilding amateur championship. She was on her way up to become a pro and I guess something went wrong when she realized (I don´t know whrere the hell she got that info from) she might get more cuts if she hit 15 or 20 iu´s (nobody knows for sure ´cause she used to live alone) humalog along with zero carbs - (EG) I have this bodybuilder friend of mine who hits on humulin-R and waits till his sugar gets low enough so he starts feeling some sides and only then he eats lots of red meat. It sounds crazy but last time he did it he was 1 day away from the national tournament and he won as a midleweight. When Lucia´s boyfriend got to her apartment (he must´ve got there I guess 2-3 hours later) it was too late. She was rolling down on the floor shaking and sweating profusely. At first, he told me lately, he thought she was kidding, but after he realized she´d done what she did, he got desperate and took her to the hospital. The guys at the hospital did not have a chance. They said she hadn´t intaken carbs enough to carry oxigen to her brain, so she had a concussion. She died on her half way to the hospital. Everybody got surprised and shoked because you can´t expect that kind of mistake from one who supposely knows everything about it.

Antonio,

Good to see that you are doing some studying before the test. As you would already know, insulin is a dangerous drug, so do further educate yourself before use. Now let me comment on a few things.

First of all, sorry to hear about your friend, I'm sure she is in a peacefull place at the moment.

15 - 20IU is a lot for a female. Doses as such are considired as high doses no matter who uses it. 10IU PWO is all you need. Also, insulin has nothing to do with getting you cut. Insulin's purpose is to shuttle nutrients into muscle cells faster than usual, and it also allows your body to absorb more nutrients than usual. That is what insulin does.

Zero carbs with insulin is danegerous, very dangerous and even though it can be done, I don't recomend anyone using insulin with zero carbs. Afterall, your body needs carbs PWO along with protein too for proper recovery.

Your friend that waits for his BG to drop then has food is playing a dangerous game. You shouldn't wait untill you feel the side effects and then take your nutrients. There is no need for that. You should take all the nutrients you need after injection to prevent side effects later on. Then later, if you still feel the sides then you should consume more carbs. Also, you said he waits until his BG drops and then he consumes red meat? Red meat is protein, and your body will take longer to digest protein and use it as an energy source because your bodys #1 energy source is carbs. Waiting for your BG to drop low and then consuming carbs is dangerous enough, but if you consume carbs as soon as you feel the side effects then you should feel alright within seconds, so that's not that bad. But, if you are feeling the side effects and then you consume "protein" (red meat like your friend does) then the side effects will stick around for longer because your body takes longer to digest protein and use it as an energy source. This is very very dangerous my friend.

I am no doctor, but your friend's death sounds like it had a lot to do with insulin use. Shaking and sweating is one of the hypoglycemia symptoms. To me it sounds like she would have experienced those symptoms and fell into deep coma later on. That is what can happen if your BG drops too low, you actually fall into a coma, a diabetic coma is what they call it. In most cases, if that's the case the individual will either wake up, or doesn't wake up at all. Many people that do wake up end up brain damaged anyway due to lack of oxygen to the brain (like the doctor said). Low BG for extended periods of time can be very damaging to your body. Insulin brings hardly any gains, yet it's the most dangerous drug around.

Anyway bro, you take care, and let us know if you need any further help.

-Gear

[goose]

Good post gear....

[Antonio Vilhena]

Antonio,

Good to see that you are doing some studying before the test. As you would already know, insulin is a dangerous drug, so do further educate yourself before use. Now let me comment on a few things.

First of all, sorry to hear about your friend, I'm sure she is in a peacefull place at the moment.

15 - 20IU is a lot for a female. Doses as such are considired as high doses no matter who uses it. 10IU PWO is all you need. Also, insulin has nothing to do with getting you cut. Insulin's purpose is to shuttle nutrients into muscle cells faster than usual, and it also allows your body to absorb more nutrients than usual. That is what insulin does.

Zero carbs with insulin is danegerous, very dangerous and even though it can be done, I don't recomend anyone using insulin with zero carbs. Afterall, your body needs carbs PWO along with protein too for proper recovery.

Your friend that waits for his BG to drop then has food is playing a dangerous game. You shouldn't wait untill you feel the side effects and then take your nutrients. There is no need for that. You should take all the nutrients you need after injection to prevent side effects later on. Then later, if you still feel the sides then you should consume more carbs. Also, you said he waits until his BG drops and then he consumes red meat? Red meat is protein, and your body will take longer to digest protein and use it as an energy source because your bodys #1 energy source is carbs. Waiting for your BG to drop low and then consuming carbs is dangerous enough, but if you consume carbs as soon as you feel the side effects then you should feel alright within seconds, so that's not that bad. But, if you are feeling the side effects and then you consume "protein" (red meat like your friend does) then the side effects will stick around for longer because your body takes longer to digest protein and use it as an energy source. This is very very dangerous my friend.

I am no doctor, but your friend's death sounds like it had a lot to do with insulin use. Shaking and sweating is one of the hypoglycemia symptoms. To me it sounds like she would have experienced those symptoms and fell into deep coma later on. That is what can happen if your BG drops too low, you actually fall into a coma, a diabetic coma is what they call it. In most cases, if that's the case the individual will either wake up, or doesn't wake up at all. Many people that do wake up end up brain damaged anyway due to lack of oxygen to the brain (like the doctor said). Low BG for extended periods of time can be very damaging to your body. Insulin brings hardly any gains, yet it's the most dangerous drug around.

Anyway bro, you take care, and let us know if you need any further help.

-Gear

Thank you Gear a whole lot. I got registered in this forun just a couple of days ago, maybe I´m the newest member in the hood, and you all guys have already given me the knowledge of life time on this issue, showing that you realy care. This is priceless!!! I know it´s not enough yet and I´ll keep on my searching...

It may sound odd, but most of the Rio de Janeiro competitive bodybuilders (I know them all because I work for the local IFBB), including their coaches, do not speak a word of English and only some have the chance to go abroad to learn the real deal and surely they won´t blow their "secrets" away. As I seem to be one of the few nearby who manages good enough with the language and holds knowledge to get by, I´ll come up with several issues from their daily trainning + diet. For instance, we can´t count on the wide variety of AAS and suplements you have so we can give good suppport to the cycles we´re doin´and so on.. They´re still in the process of finding out what HGH is all about - and I have seen and heard things you woudn´t believe - and the way it works properly in the competition scenario. Also they kwow nada about LR3 + IGF-1, and dangerously, there are lot of these guys who work either as personal trainers or run gyms of their own in this 12 million people town. So I sort of feel responsable for some of the outcomes from ignorance and stupidity it might happen in this field.

By chance... where is the best body part to shoot slim? I´m sooting it next to the navel. Also... would it be OK if I took maltodextrine (32 grams) instead of dextrose. I did today (Humulin-R) before my 10 iu PWO shot and felt no sides throughout the day. Is this enough or should I raise my carb intake at this moment?

Thank you all once more.

[Gear]

Antonio,

You are very welcome, and once again, if you do need any further help let us know.

When you inject slin, if you are injecting IM (intramascular) then inject anywhere where there very thin skin and not much fat. This way you can be sure that the needle will get into the muscle ok. I usually shoot slin in my bicep, some shoot in their tricep, some even shoot in their side delt. If you are shooting Sub-Q (subcutaneous, the way diabetics inject) then simply inject the way diabetics inject insulin, in the fat around the belly area. You can use maltodextrin instead of dextrose, so that's fine. Keep in mind; just because you are not feeling any side effects it doesn't necessraly mean that insulin isn't doing it's job. With your carbs, take 10g of carbs for every 1IU of insulin. So if you are taking 6IU, you would take 60g of carbs, if you take 10IU then you would take a 100g of carbs. Once again, maltodextrin or dextrose are both fine as your carb source.

All the best.

-Gear

[Antonio Vilhena]

Antonio,

You are very welcome, and once again, if you do need any further help let us know.

When you inject slin, if you are injecting IM (intramascular) then inject anywhere where there very thin skin and not much fat. This way you can be sure that the needle will get into the muscle ok. I usually shoot slin in my bicep, some shoot in their tricep, some even shoot in their side delt. If you are shooting Sub-Q (subcutaneous, the way diabetics inject) then simply inject the way diabetics inject insulin, in the fat around the belly area. You can use maltodextrin instead of dextrose, so that's fine. Keep in mind; just because you are not feeling any side effects it doesn't necessraly mean that insulin isn't doing it's job. With your carbs, take 10g of carbs for every 1IU of insulin. So if you are taking 6IU, you would take 60g of carbs, if you take 10IU then you would take a 100g of carbs. Once again, maltodextrin or dextrose are both fine as your carb source.

All the best.

-Gear

Thank you bro... I´ll follow everything the way you guys told me to and I´ll report it back in a few days (step by step). Should I wright a new thread in the forun or I´d better keep on posting on this one?

[oswaldosalcedo]

She was on a pre-contest phase, preparing for Mr. Rio wich is our selective for the national brazilian bodybuilding amateur championship. She was on her way up to become a pro and I guess something went wrong when she realized (I don´t know whrere the hell she got that info from) she might get more cuts if she hit 15 or 20 iu´s (nobody knows for sure ´cause she used to live alone) humalog along with zero carbs - (EG) I have this bodybuilder friend of mine who hits on humulin-R and waits till his sugar gets low enough so he starts feeling some sides and only then he eats lots of red meat. It sounds crazy but last time he did it he was 1 day away from the national tournament and he won as a midleweight. When Lucia´s boyfriend got to her apartment (he must´ve got there I guess 2-3 hours later) it was too late. She was rolling down on the floor shaking and sweating profusely. At first, he told me lately, he thought she was kidding, but after he realized she´d done what she did, he got desperate and took her to the hospital. The guys at the hospital did not have a chance. They said she hadn´t intaken carbs enough to carry oxigen to her brain, so she had a concussion. She died on her half way to the hospital. Everybody got surprised and shoked because you can´t expect that kind of mistake from one who supposely knows everything about it.

sorry for your friend,but 20 ius is too much for anyone.
and antonio,imo slin is not worthy.

[Antonio Vilhena]

sorry for your friend,but 20 ius is too much for anyone.
and antonio,imo slin is not worthy.

I know what you mean... The thing is we hardly ever hit on slin without AAS. So I think it´s hard to tell if you´re building mass due to one or another. I believe in sinergy, like winny + test work pretty good together for most of the people I know. Please, don´t think I´m trying to give you any wisdom here, but I can´t forget the theory says slin carries nutrients into the muscle cell to feed them. We´ve also learned the strongest insulin peak we can possibly have is right after a high intensity weightlifting set, openning an "window of oportunity" so we can have our most important meal of the day. This´s been test proved. OK, this is the way human nature works, period. On the other hand we´re talking about a substantious raise in the slin amount that our body ordinaryly produces and force it into "recipients" that have never received such quantity at the same time. So what to expect? Are they able to cope with this stimulus and brings us good results or this extra slin amount won´t be "read" by the muscle cell and the drug ends up wandering in our body system just like AAS do when they´re not accepted by the recptors anymore? Would that be possible or I´m freaking out with my imagination? What realy happens and how do we prove it?
According to Anabolic Review, slin will help me increase my regular AAS cycle net gains in 20-30%. I believe these guys.
You previously posted you think slin doesn´t give us any size... Would it be ok for you to tell me in details on what your feelings are based on?

[Whitey]

Wow, this is a very scary thread. I have always been of the opinion that insulin, run correctly, can be used safely. But I also realize that the only test subject I am intimately familiar with is myself. We all vary just enough in terms of our internal levels and tolerances, that what might be okay for me, might be gravely dangerous for someone else.

This thread is amazing, though, because the 2 stories of the Brazilian bodybuilders - the way they administered slin, would be expected to send anyone to the hospital at best.

I seriously hope I never hear another story of someone using slin with a ketogenic diet. For a beginner, starting around 4-6ius, intaking between 8-10g simple carbs per iu, and having simple carbs onhand to use as you monitor you BG levels, is a minimum safety requirement.

Great advice from Gear, as always. I agree that for all but the most advanced users, there's no need to go about 10iu. And try to use humalog if at all possible, and regardless of that, always shoot intramuscularly, not sub-q, to get it in and out of your system as quickly as possible.

When used intelligently, PWO only, with proper diet (see FAQ's stickied in forum) slin is a very powerful, perhaps the most powerful anabolic agent. But it has to be respected. And while it can be used for cutting, you'll be trying to walk the line in terms of carb control/hypoglcemia, so for a beginner, I'd recommend limiting its use to bulking.

[oswaldosalcedo]

I know what you mean... The thing is we hardly ever hit on slin without AAS. So I think it´s hard to tell if you´re building mass due to one or another. I believe in sinergy, like winny + test work pretty good together for most of the people I know. Please, don´t think I´m trying to give you any wisdom here, but I can´t forget the theory says slin carries nutrients into the muscle cell to feed them. We´ve also learned the strongest insulin peak we can possibly have is right after a high intensity weightlifting set, openning an "window of oportunity" so we can have our most important meal of the day. This´s been test proved. OK, this is the way human nature works, period. On the other hand we´re talking about a substantious raise in the slin amount that our body ordinaryly produces and force it into "recipients" that have never received such quantity at the same time. So what to expect? Are they able to cope with this stimulus and brings us good results or this extra slin amount won´t be "read" by the muscle cell and the drug ends up wandering in our body system just like AAS do when they´re not accepted by the recptors anymore? Would that be possible or I´m freaking out with my imagination? What realy happens and how do we prove it?
According to Anabolic Review, slin will help me increase my regular AAS cycle net gains in 20-30%. I believe these guys.
You previously posted you think slin doesn´t give us any size... Would it be ok for you to tell me in details on what your feelings are based on?

great reasoning! muscle growth is a lot of time ahead, shuttling nutrients,
is the growth of satellite cell that produces size.
i have used aas protocols (same dose,same substances) with and without slin and results are the same, i have 25 years doing bodybuilding ,i have used nandrolone,metenolone,stanozolol,test,boldelone,tr enbolone,humalog,novolog,pgf2,
metandrostenolone,etc,etc.
my feelings are based on experience and study,with scientifical attitude.

i recommend to you:

Endocrinology and Metabolism .
by Philip Felig, Lawrence A. Frohman.
Williams Textbook of Endocrinology.
by Robert Hardin Williams,et al.
Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism.
by Sareen S. Gropper, et al.
Acsm's Advanced Exercise Physiology.
by Charles M. Tipton (Editor).
Exercise Physiology: Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance.
by Scott K Powers, et al.
Exercise Physiology : Human Bioenergetics and Its Applications.
by George A Brooks, et al.


the risk with slin is not worthy, really.

[goose]

Great post ossie!!!!!!!

[Gear]

You previously posted you think slin doesn´t give us any size... Would it be ok for you to tell me in details on what your feelings are based on?

I know this question was not directed at me, but I will give you my point of view anyway.

First of all, I have used slin alone and with AAS, the results in the end were always the same. I never gained any weight or strength. Many use slin and feel the same way.

The reason why it's more than likely that you won't gain size from slin is because insulin has nothing to do with muscle cell growth. For example AAS blows up your muscle cells, HGH creates new cells, this is where we get size/strength/weight. Insulin does not do any of these. Insulin only forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, and also allows your body to absorb a bit more nutrients than usual, insulin does not create cells and blow up cells. This is why you probably won't gain any size/strength/weight from insulin. So now insulin sounds useless, right? Wrong. Because insulin allows your body to absorb more nutrients than usual, and forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, from time to time I believe benefits like strength/weight will arrive, but these benefits will not come as fast as they would if you were using AAS. I think you have to use insulin for quite a while to actually gain a bit of strength/weight. That is what I think anyway.

The ones that claim that they gain strength/weight from insulin must be the gifted ones, because I strongly believe getting gains as such is hard to accomplish just from insulin itself.

IMO, insulin is best for recovery. Your body is hungry for fuel PWO, and considering insulin forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, a dose at this time would be very beneficial. That is why I always say insulin is mostly beneficial PWO.

-Gear

[Antonio Vilhena]

When used intelligently, PWO only, with proper diet (see FAQ's stickied in forum) slin is a very powerful, perhaps the most powerful anabolic agent. But it has to be respected. And while it can be used for cutting, you'll be trying to walk the line in terms of carb control/hypoglcemia, so for a beginner, I'd recommend limiting its use to bulking.

I thank you, Whitey, indeed for your post. I found it encouraging, but one of the things it makes me wonder about the keto issue is what if I train early in the morning (let´s say from 9 to 10 am), head back home, have my Humalog IM shot + 85g of dextrose, 5g of glutamine and 7g of creatine (that will happen about 10:30 am tops), 80g of whey 30 min. (at 11:00 am) after the shot, and them, 150 min. (1:00 pm) 25g of dextrose and 150g of chicken breasts? According to the FAQ´s stickied in forum, my BG levels will be stable at this time and the graphics also sign they will renain stable for the rest of the day. So I´d say this would be my chance to slow down my carb intake or even cut them all till I go to bed at night, always paying a very close attention to "the line in terms of carb control/hypoglcemia", as you mentioned. I´m used to responding very well by cutting off carbs and raising salt and water intake. I get my sugar cravings on the second and third day, but I can beat the odds. And then, they go away and I start losing weight and getting ripped. In a 2-week time frame I´m completely changed.
Humalog, gives me the sense of its only working, as a window of oportunity, during these 120 minutes after shot, although its duration lasts for 6 hours. But IMO only the peaks are to be taken into consideration.

[Antonio Vilhena]

great reasoning! muscle growth is a lot of time ahead, shuttling nutrients,
is the growth of satellite cell that produces size.
i have used aas protocols (same dose,same substances) with and without slin and results are the same, i have 25 years doing bodybuilding ,i have used nandrolone,metenolone,stanozolol,test,boldelone,tr enbolone,humalog,novolog,pgf2,
metandrostenolone,etc,etc.
my feelings are based on experience and study,with scientifical attitude.

B]

Where can I find these books? Only in the US? Is there any other way I can reach this literature if not by these books? And... I´m sorry to bother you with too many questions, but what´s pgf2?

[Antonio Vilhena]

I know this question was not directed at me, but I will give you my point of view anyway.

First of all, I have used slin alone and with AAS, the results in the end were always the same. I never gained any weight or strength. Many use slin and feel the same way.

The reason why it's more than likely that you won't gain size from slin is because insulin has nothing to do with muscle cell growth. For example AAS blows up your muscle cells, HGH creates new cells, this is where we get size/strength/weight. Insulin does not do any of these. Insulin only forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, and also allows your body to absorb a bit more nutrients than usual, insulin does not create cells and blow up cells. This is why you probably won't gain any size/strength/weight from insulin. So now insulin sounds useless, right? Wrong. Because insulin allows your body to absorb more nutrients than usual, and forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, from time to time I believe benefits like strength/weight will arrive, but these benefits will not come as fast as they would if you were using AAS. I think you have to use insulin for quite a while to actually gain a bit of strength/weight. That is what I think anyway.

The ones that claim that they gain strength/weight from insulin must be the gifted ones, because I strongly believe getting gains as such is hard to accomplish just from insulin itself.

IMO, insulin is best for recovery. Your body is hungry for fuel PWO, and considering insulin forces nutrients into cells faster than usual, a dose at this time would be very beneficial. That is why I always say insulin is mostly beneficial PWO.

-Gear

Aleluiah !!!! thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you... Now the whole thing, out of this clash of opinions, makes a lot of sense to me. Not mentioning that I have learned more with you guys in the length of a week than I did reading books and talking to my sources in ages.
Siln does work, but in the long run, not in the same time frame AAS do, because we´re talking about regular nutrients, not synthetic hormone. So, since we´d better to cycle slin, at least, 4 weeks on/6 off, It´s fair to say I´ll start seeing some slin results after what? the third, the fourth cycle, or you´ll never know?

[Gear]

Aleluiah !!!! thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you... Now the whole thing, out of this clash of opinions, makes a lot of sense to me. Not mentioning that I have learned more with you guys in the length of a week than I did reading books and talking to my sources in ages.
Siln does work, but in the long run, not in the same time frame AAS do, because we´re talking about regular nutrients, not synthetic hormone. So, since we´d better to cycle slin, at least, 4 weeks on/6 off, It´s fair to say I´ll start seeing some slin results after what? the third, the fourth cycle, or you´ll never know?

Glad you understand the whole thing now. Like you said, insulin does work, but in the long run for most people.

It's hard to say when you will gain from insulin as everybody reacts differently. It all depends on your genetics, training, diet etc. You may be one of those "gifted ones" that gain from slin right away, or you may need to do a few cycles until you can see results, you won't know until you try. Everytime I use insulin I know it's working (because of the side effects) but I don't know if I am gaining anything from it. This is because every time I use insulin I use it in conjunction with AAS. So I get all different sort of results. I get water retention, muscle mass, I gan fat, I gain weight, all while I'm using about 4 - 5 different AAS compunds at once. Which gains are coming from which compounds? I have no idea. I take so many things at once I don't even know what the hell is working or not, but the gains are there, so that's the main part.

I think the easiet way to know what kind of gains insulin will bring is to use insulin alone without AAS. This way you know any major gains you get is more than likely to do with insulin because you aren't using anything else but slin.

-Gear

[Maldorf]

Thanks for posting her story for us. Messing around with insulin while doing a keto diet is very dangerous, and I hope that anyone considering doing so has read your post here and reconsidered.

[Antonio Vilhena]

Thanks for posting her story for us. Messing around with insulin while doing a keto diet is very dangerous, and I hope that anyone considering doing so has read your post here and reconsidered.

This is precisely what I meant. I´m doing my search with you guys because I do not want to put neigther my life nor the health of the people I work for in jeopardy. We stand for a global community that detains crucial informations for people´s lives. We must be responsible for that. Maybe one might not feel this way, but the thruth is we are all commited with those who do not have this background, no matter for what reason thy´re doing their search. I maybe a beginner on slin issues, but, on the other hand, I have been working with training and diet in my town for a considerable time, dealing with beginners and all sort of outsiders, and I cannot stay put, and I won´t, when I see the guys in the gym putting, not only their progress, but their lives at stake. I have also seen "doctors", "teathers" and so called "professionals" preaching nonsense, spreading fear and ignorance. This deeply gets on my nerves.

I thank you guys once more, specialy Jay (who got me started with the links he presented to me), Gear (who saved my ass from stupidity for good), Whitey (who reenforced my thoughts and gave me support to believe I was on the right track) and Oswaldo (who showed me that even the surest thing on this earth, even science, maybe wrong), not only for giving me the chance to express these thoughts, but also for welcoming me in the forum and getting me aware and wise about all the subjects we discuss here.

[Antonio Vilhena]

Glad you understand the whole thing now. Like you said, insulin does work, but in the long run for most people.

It's hard to say when you will gain from insulin as everybody reacts differently. It all depends on your genetics, training, diet etc. You may be one of those "gifted ones" that gain from slin right away, or you may need to do a few cycles until you can see results, you won't know until you try. Everytime I use insulin I know it's working (because of the side effects) but I don't know if I am gaining anything from it. This is because every time I use insulin I use it in conjunction with AAS. So I get all different sort of results. I get water retention, muscle mass, I gan fat, I gain weight, all while I'm using about 4 - 5 different AAS compunds at once. Which gains are coming from which compounds? I have no idea. I take so many things at once I don't even know what the hell is working or not, but the gains are there, so that's the main part.

I think the easiet way to know what kind of gains insulin will bring is to use insulin alone without AAS. This way you know any major gains you get is more than likely to do with insulin because you aren't using anything else but slin.

-Gear

I think you´re right... I might use slin alone next time... I´m already used to doing that with AAS, so I can check their sole power. Actually, everything changes - in sutle or dramatic fashion - everytime we shift modes such as training, diet, supplementation and so forth. This is why I consider bodybuilding a fine amazing art that makes our effort and hard studying whorthworking for.

[oswaldosalcedo]

Where can I find these books? Only in the US? Is there any other way I can reach this literature if not by these books? And... I´m sorry to bother you with too many questions, but what´s pgf2?

you can buy them through amazon.com,they cost around $100-$400.
be careful with the wishful thinking (slin effectiveness).

pgf2 stand for, Prostaglandin F2 Alpha.
prostaglandins are substances implicated in inflammatory processes.

read:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=218031
legalities and dangers of pgf2a, slin and IGF-1.

at your service, Antonio.

[oswaldosalcedo]

Likewise,i can recommend to you:

Anabolic 2006 by William Llewellyn.
Chemical Muscle Enhacement by Louis Rea.
Steroids 101 by Jeff Summers.

.and...............for you anyway:

Duration of Insulin Action: Percentage
30% Humalog each hour, which is gone in 3.5 hours
Example: rapid/short acting insulin (Humalog®)
Original bolus Units of insulin left after:
amount 1 hr 2 hrs 3 hrs 4 hrs
1 unit---- 0.7-- 0.4-- 0.1----0
2 units ---1.4-- 0.8-- 0.2----0
3 units ---2.1-- 1.2-- 0.3----0
4 units ---2.8-- 1.6-- 0.4----0
5 units--- 3.5-- 2.0-- 0.5----0
6 units--- 4.2-- 2.4-- 0.6----0
7 units--- 4.9-- 2.8-- 0.7----0
8 units--- 5.6-- 3.2-- 0.8----0
9 units--- 6.3-- 3.6-- 0.9----0
10 units-- 7.0-- 4.0-- 1.0----0.