Been on hgh for 6+ months now

**lzicc** · 06-23-2006, 06:03 AM

I am going on month 7 and I gotta say I have not noticed any positive effects. I've got the sides from it, like numb hands/arms, but nothing positive as of yet. Am I jumping the gun here.

I started out with 2/5 iu's, 5/7, for a few months, bumped that up to 4 iu's, numbness kicked in hard so I went down to 3 iu's.

I started of with a US Compounding Pharmacy hgh and switched over to Jin's cause of the price. I'm 41 so I would think that I should see some kind of positive effect. I'm not looking for muscle gain from gh, but more of the anti aging benefits. When I started the gh, I also ran test e with it.

**bringndaheat** · 06-23-2006, 06:18 AM

Have you not noticed your skin feeling a little tighter?..... Some weight loss?? How is your diet?? The amount you are taking should show some results. But you must look at it this way. It's like the hands on a clock...... It 12o'clock and next thing you know it's 6o'clock and you did not even see the time go by..... Bottom line is you can't see the hands moving but they are moving. BTW if you are getting the sides....it's working! Good luck and stay the course!!

**Xtralarg** · 06-23-2006, 06:26 AM

I think many people expect miricles from hgh and that its a wonder drug, unfortunately this isnt the case. What results were you hoping for on 3iu's?
I do feel that for dramatic results to occur a minimum of 8iu's is required and in my experience with hgh(which is extensive) this has usually been the case.

**lzicc** · 06-23-2006, 07:03 AM

I'm not looking for anything earth shattering or anything, but I would think that I would be more energetic. Since I've been on, I've noticed my knees are stiff anymore, my sleep is about the same, my skin looks the same, my diet is good, but not 100% clean, but I'm not looking for fat loss from gh. I'm on a continuous bulk phase right now. I guess I just haven't seen anything positive from it. My main thing I want from gh is to be able to workout harder like when I was younger. I mean like feeling good an energetic when I workout.

I would up the dose, but when I hit 4 iu's, my arms would go numb when I sleep, so I backed down to 3.

Maybe I just need to be patient.

**taiboxa** · 06-23-2006, 08:30 AM

IMO gh needs to be ran REALITIVELY HIGH to get anything worthwhile outta it but then again its so expensive .. beats me

**spound** · 06-23-2006, 08:32 AM

The main positive effect ppl get from GH is fatloss....and that is not going to happen if your diet is not clean....and you admitted yours was not.

**Ufa** · 06-23-2006, 08:44 AM

Sometimes I wonder if JIN has been handled properly or even made properly.
Nothing from China has ever impressed me. Especially their fragile GH that
most likely makes it's way over on God knows what. The placibo effect has been greatly over exaggerated. I felt the same way as Izicc. Then all this
hype, give it more time and us more money.

Finally, I decided to give the Swiss, American Serano, Saizen a try. It is made differently. Not from E.coli bacteria cells, but from mammalian cells.

Hence, getting around Genetech's patented methood of making it from
the bacterial cells of E.coli. The Saizen slip sheet states that it can be
stored at room temp until reconstitution. This sold me because of the
long shipping that and storage that you have to rely on with JIN.

I'm giving the American stuff a few more months before tossing in the
towel. I'm 55 and should get some results.

PS One batch of Jin I got gave me a rash on stomach similiar to the 192aa
just wondering if some one did a relabel on me.

To all you JIN lover's: I know I'm full of BS, so no need to flame me.

**yom** · 06-23-2006, 09:11 AM

that sucks im sure its working unless fake. im yet to use gh though

**Ufa** · 06-23-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by yom

that sucks im sure its working unless fake. im yet to use gh though

The thing is it could be real to start with and because it is alive and not
handled properly could die.

**lzicc** · 06-23-2006, 10:22 AM

I mainly want to feel good, young(er) you could say. Maybe I am looking at the wrong solution or maybe I need to go back to the american brand. It is so much more expensive though. I would increase the dosage, but like said above, it is so expensive and the sides get rough for me.

When I take test, I feel good. My mind feels good and my body feels good. I guess with the gh I was hoping it would reinforce that feeling.

I'm going to run the Jin's out and then start using my american brand and see how it goes.

**Ufa** · 06-23-2006, 10:24 AM

Hope things go good for you. Life is a learning process. I think it helps to
share our personal experiences. I not gonna give up hope.

**lzicc** · 06-23-2006, 10:25 AM

Yeah Jins seem to be very delicate. The other stuff I had did not need to be refrigerated until it was reconstituted.

**Hard Head** · 06-23-2006, 12:14 PM

Go with a name brand FDA approved. There is a difference. It needs to be stored cold.

**Pinnacle** · 06-23-2006, 12:20 PM

No diffence between 2 ius and 4 iu's.So I'm not surprised at what you said in your first post.
Want to see a difference?Bump to 7-10 ius and get back to me in 2-3 months.Want to see growth?Bump the dose to 9-13 iu's ED and get back to me in a few months.

Point is,you want results with HGH,you need to run the right doses.This is a huge problem alot of guys make.When they realize HGH needs to be ran at high doses,they also realize they are in wayyy over their head(expense-wise).If you can't afford to run the required doses,save you cash for something else cause HGH at low dose isn't good for anything but minor fat-loss,and joint repair.

~Pinnacle~

**vermin** · 06-23-2006, 03:37 PM

I'd go with test-e for the "youthful effect" you mention more so than HGH.

**fossilfuel7** · 06-23-2006, 05:17 PM

I have no personal experience but, I know a couple of MD's Who are against Using Jin and anything out of China for that matter with regard to anti- aging purposes.

**jaze** · 06-24-2006, 12:13 PM

izicc i am on a sim plan started with compound switched to jin , started 4/1 on compound pharm switched to gin about a month ago and went to 3i.u. 6/1 getting great local fat loss with it , love handles have vanished for first time in my life , eyesight has improved , one of the best effects ive noticed is i can sleep through the night without having to go to the bathroom 3-5 times , dont now if it is related but occured soon after i started gh, im also runing test and deca 2x aweek + .5 mg anastrzole so it s hard to say what combo of drugs or drug is doing what , so far im very happy with gh and will continue.

**vermin** · 06-24-2006, 12:32 PM

Usually sleep effects, etc. are attributed to TRT. When my test was low I was getting up to go to the bathroom in the night for the first time in my life - it seemed that it was because I was not sleeping as well, so the urge was enough to wake me.

**lzicc** · 06-25-2006, 07:52 AM

I have no problem jumping up to 7 - 10 iu's, the thing is though at 4 iu's, I was getting pretty bad sides from that. Going beyond that I am sure that the sides will just get worse.

Once I finish these Jin's, I am going to go back to the american brand just to see if there is a difference. I didn't try to run the american brand at higher doses. Maybe I won't get the side effects from them.

**taiboxa** · 06-25-2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by lzicc

I have no problem jumping up to 7 - 10 iu's, the thing is though at 4 iu's, I was getting pretty bad sides from that. Going beyond that I am sure that the sides will just get worse.

Once I finish these Jin's, I am going to go back to the american brand just to see if there is a difference. I didn't try to run the american brand at higher doses. Maybe I won't get the side effects from them.

sometimes the sides wont get THAT BAD just stay about hte same but the gains will be there!..

never know till u try

**Ufa** · 06-25-2006, 10:53 AM

retention, joint pains, and five instances of carpal tunnel symptoms, which disappeared when the dosage was lowered. Terry attributes the low incidence of side effects to the low-dose, high-frequency treatment regimen with 4 to 8 IU per week of HGH in divided doses given twice daily, in the mornings and at night, compared with 16.5 IU per week, given once every other day, in previous clinical studies. This dose, which is about one-quarter to one-half of the weekly dosage used by Dr. Rudman in his studies, is safe, well tolerated and virtually free of side effects, yet it is equally effective. Terry believes the regimen used in his study more closely mimics the normal physiologic pulsating-like pattern of HGH release.

HGH THERAPY: RISK VERSUS BENEFIT
Although HGH is a drug that can be prescribed only by a physician, it is important to remember that like many hormonal treatments, the long-term effects are unknown. Proponents of HGH stress that negative effects can occur, but generally only when the patient is taking more than the physiologic dose for a long period. Some of these effects have included carpal tunnel syndrome, arthritis, high blood pressure, vocal cord thickening, excess fluid in the legs, the growth of small breasts in men (gynecomastia ), osteoporosis, heat intolerance, impotence, and in supraphysiologic doses acr*****ly (the enlargement of the bones in the head, hands, and feet), and diabetes-like symptoms.
Researchers also have expressed concern over the hormone’s ability to spur cell growth and how this may promote the growth of cancerous cells present in the body. Recent case-controlled studies have found increases in the serum levels of IGF-1 in subjects who had, or who eventually developed, prostate or premenopausal breast cancers. The concern has been raised regarding its potential role as a cancer initiation factor since growth hormone increases IGF-1 levels.
In May 1998, the British medical journal The Lancet published an article that linked elevated levels of GH to a risk of breast cancer seven times higher than the risk in those with low levels of GH. The researcher, Dr. Hankinson, analyzed blood samples of women taken in 1989 to 1990 before any of them were diagnosed with the disease. Over the next five years, the level of IGF-1 was measured in the original blood samples on the 397 women who later developed breast cancer. Among the 76 premenopausal women, those with IGF-1 concentrations in the highest category had three times the risk of those with low levels. The sevenfold increase suggests that the relation between IGFI and risk of breast cancer may be greater than other established breast cancer.

Taken from Dr. Ronald Klatz & Dr. Robert Goldman "anti-aging revolution" (79)

**balin** · 06-25-2006, 11:05 AM

Anti aging benifits are some thing that happen over a long period of time. Which 1-2 iu's/day would put you values in the range for anti aging from what I have read. Now if you are looking for some massive change in your body then higher doses may be needed.

**Ufa** · 06-25-2006, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by balin

Anti aging benifits are some thing that happen over a long period of time. Which 1-2 iu's/day would put you values in the range for anti aging from what I have read. Now if you are looking for some massive change in your body then higher doses may be needed.

I don't know what you mean by massive changes.

**fossilfuel7** · 06-25-2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ufa

retention, joint pains, and five instances of carpal tunnel symptoms, which disappeared when the dosage was lowered. Terry attributes the low incidence of side effects to the low-dose, high-frequency treatment regimen with 4 to 8 IU per week of HGH in divided doses given twice daily, in the mornings and at night, compared with 16.5 IU per week, given once every other day, in previous clinical studies. This dose, which is about one-quarter to one-half of the weekly dosage used by Dr. Rudman in his studies, is safe, well tolerated and virtually free of side effects, yet it is equally effective. Terry believes the regimen used in his study more closely mimics the normal physiologic pulsating-like pattern of HGH release.

HGH THERAPY: RISK VERSUS BENEFIT
Although HGH is a drug that can be prescribed only by a physician, it is important to remember that like many hormonal treatments, the long-term effects are unknown. Proponents of HGH stress that negative effects can occur, but generally only when the patient is taking more than the physiologic dose for a long period. Some of these effects have included carpal tunnel syndrome, arthritis, high blood pressure, vocal cord thickening, excess fluid in the legs, the growth of small breasts in men (gynecomastia ), osteoporosis, heat intolerance, impotence, and in supraphysiologic doses acr*****ly (the enlargement of the bones in the head, hands, and feet), and diabetes-like symptoms.
Researchers also have expressed concern over the hormone’s ability to spur cell growth and how this may promote the growth of cancerous cells present in the body. Recent case-controlled studies have found increases in the serum levels of IGF-1 in subjects who had, or who eventually developed, prostate or premenopausal breast cancers. The concern has been raised regarding its potential role as a cancer initiation factor since growth hormone increases IGF-1 levels.
In May 1998, the British medical journal The Lancet published an article that linked elevated levels of GH to a risk of breast cancer seven times higher than the risk in those with low levels of GH. The researcher, Dr. Hankinson, analyzed blood samples of women taken in 1989 to 1990 before any of them were diagnosed with the disease. Over the next five years, the level of IGF-1 was measured in the original blood samples on the 397 women who later developed breast cancer. Among the 76 premenopausal women, those with IGF-1 concentrations in the highest category had three times the risk of those with low levels. The sevenfold increase suggests that the relation between IGFI and risk of breast cancer may be greater than other established breast cancer.

Taken from Dr. Ronald Klatz & Dr. Robert Goldman "anti-aging revolution" (79)

Hey Ufa, Where did you get this(what appears to be) study from??

That is the first time I have ever seen Arthritis and Osteoporosis outlined as a side effect(wtf).(This would surely defeat the purpose of using GH for connective tissue and joint repair/strengthening)

I have seen studies that show GH having a very positive effect on people with Arthritis and Osteoporosis and it makes sense why it would.

**lzicc** · 06-25-2006, 01:49 PM

I know not to expect anything overwhelming as far as changes. I've noticed since I have started the gh back in December is that my knees feel stiff anymore, my shoulder and elbow joints bother me, I am not as energetic as I used to be, my concentration is not as good as it used to be and I have noticed that reading up close anymore, everything is blurry. I'm not saying that the gh is causing this, but it is not helping either. I guess I would have hoped to feel better then I did when I started it, but I am actually feeling worse. Not alot but enough.

Like I said, I am not concerned at all about muscle growth from gh. I will get that from working out hard, diet and supplementing with test. I just want the gh to make me feel good/younger.

**lzicc** · 06-25-2006, 01:51 PM

That explains how my joints feel. They feel like I have arthritis. This feeling started about 3 months ago roughly. Could be a coincident too.

Originally Posted by fossilfuel7

Hey Ufa, Where did you get this(what appears to be) study from??

That is the first time I have ever seen Arthritis and Osteoporosis outlined as a side effect(wtf).(This would surely defeat the purpose of using GH for connective tissue and joint repair/strengthening)

I have seen studies that show GH having a very positive effect on people with Arthritis and Osteoporosis and it makes sense why it would.

**fossilfuel7** · 06-25-2006, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by lzicc

That explains how my joints feel. They feel like I have arthritis. This feeling started about 3 months ago roughly. Could be a coincident too.

Wow! It sounds like the Gh is just making you feel like crap and is giving you totally the opposite effect of what it should be.

That is pretty crazy if your senses are getting worse also.

I would quit taking it and save my money for something else.

**Ufa** · 06-25-2006, 04:20 PM

The last line of my post. The book was written by DR. RONALD KLATZ
and DR. ROBERT GOLDMAN. "ANTI-AGING REVOLUTION" Third edition 2003

Dr. Ronald Klatz wrote 'GROW YOUNG WITH HGH' back in 1997.

You can get both on Amazon or E-bay. I have not found any other books
on the subject. Dr. Klatz is current President of American Academy of Anti
Aging.

**fossilfuel7** · 06-25-2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ufa

The last line of my post. The book was written by DR. RONALD KLATZ
and DR. ROBERT GOLDMAN. "ANTI-AGING REVOLUTION" Third edition 2003

Dr. Ronald Klatz wrote 'GROW YOUNG WITH HGH' back in 1997.

You can get both on Amazon or E-bay. I have not found any other books
on the subject. Dr. Klatz is current President of American Academy of Anti
Aging.

Thaks for the info Ufa.

**lzicc** · 06-26-2006, 07:09 AM

That's how I feel. I'm getting the reverse effect. What sucks is that I have a decent amount of money invested in this stuff that I have onhand.

I think what I am going to do is switch back to the us brand and see what if anything improves.

Originally Posted by fossilfuel7

Wow! It sounds like the Gh is just making you feel like crap and is giving you totally the opposite effect of what it should be.

That is pretty crazy if your senses are getting worse also.

I would quit taking it and save my money for something else.

**fred9** · 06-26-2006, 11:11 AM

lets check ur igf levels...its a good way to check if ur hgh is doind what it should do...
also think its a good approach to try the us brand, should be a waste if u stop so you never know what really the problem was

**fossilfuel7** · 06-26-2006, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by lzicc

That's how I feel. I'm getting the reverse effect. What sucks is that I have a decent amount of money invested in this stuff that I have onhand.

I think what I am going to do is switch back to the us brand and see what if anything improves.

Yeah...it would be interesting to see if the US brand makes a difference in your case or not.

Definitley keep us posted.

**oswaldosalcedo** · 06-26-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by lzicc

I have no problem jumping up to 7 - 10 iu's, the thing is though at 4 iu's, I was getting pretty bad sides from that. Going beyond that I am sure that the sides will just get worse.

Once I finish these Jin's, I am going to go back to the american brand just to see if there is a difference. I didn't try to run the american brand at higher doses. Maybe I won't get the side effects from them.

which the objective is then?

**doublefister** · 06-26-2006, 11:34 PM

If you are looking more of antiaging benefits then I think your dose is fine. Even the clinics wouldnt tell you to go any higher than 2IU's a day. I am on 2IU's a day but I am also on 100mg test cyp a week and I definitely can tell a difference.

I think you would get better results if you added test to your HGH. Depending on what your goal is you can even go as low as 200mg a week. After my trt and as soon as my shoulder heals completely I will be bumping up the test cyp. Even at a low dose of HGH and test cyp I already have noticed a difference and I have only been on it for 2 months now.

Consider some test and see how you do. At 41 Im sure your doc would even be able to prescribe it to you.

**IBdmfkr** · 06-27-2006, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

No diffence between 2 ius and 4 iu's.So I'm not surprised at what you said in your first post.
Want to see a difference?Bump to 7-10 ius and get back to me in 2-3 months.Want to see growth?Bump the dose to 9-13 iu's ED and get back to me in a few months.

Point is,you want results with HGH,you need to run the right doses.This is a huge problem alot of guys make.When they realize HGH needs to be ran at high doses,they also realize they are in wayyy over their head(expense-wise).If you can't afford to run the required doses,save you cash for something else cause HGH at low dose isn't good for anything but minor fat-loss,and joint repair.

~Pinnacle~

How would you recommend spliting 10IU/day training and non-training days?

**Seattle Junk** · 06-27-2006, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

No diffence between 2 ius and 4 iu's.So I'm not surprised at what you said in your first post.
Want to see a difference?Bump to 7-10 ius and get back to me in 2-3 months.Want to see growth?Bump the dose to 9-13 iu's ED and get back to me in a few months.

Point is,you want results with HGH,you need to run the right doses.This is a huge problem alot of guys make.When they realize HGH needs to be ran at high doses,they also realize they are in wayyy over their head(expense-wise).If you can't afford to run the required doses,save you cash for something else cause HGH at low dose isn't good for anything but minor fat-loss,and joint repair.

~Pinnacle~

You don't you think 4ius + test is enough for the older guy? I know we're about the same age, in our mid 30's. Doesn't GH work better in the older guy because of the natural decrease in natty GH secretion? I know you're right on growth with the higher doses, upwards of 10ius. I believe pros use 20ius+ ed from what I've read. That would be expensive. But if you use 750mgs-1g of test a week with 4ius of GH, I would think the synergysitic effect would be great. I'm not even talking about adding in slin and lr3 either, just test. GH works so well with test, they compliment each other.

**oswaldosalcedo** · 06-27-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Seattle Junk

You don't you think 4ius + test is enough for the older guy? I know we're about the same age, in our mid 30's. Doesn't GH work better in the older guy because of the natural decrease in natty GH secretion? I know you're right on growth with the higher doses, upwards of 10ius. I believe pros use 20ius+ ed from what I've read. That would be expensive. But if you use 750mgs-1g of test a week with 4ius of GH, I would think the synergysitic effect would be great. I'm not even talking about adding in slin and lr3 either, just test. GH works so well with test, they compliment each other.

pinn states over 20 ius for growth.

**taiboxa** · 06-27-2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by IBdmfkr

How would you recommend spliting 10IU/day training and non-training days?

im no pin but i woud try to adminster it eveny every 4hrs of the day into 4 doses making sure i hit pre cardio, PreWO and PostWO

**IBdmfkr** · 06-27-2006, 10:00 PM

That's what I was thinking.. 2.5iu 4x/day.

**Pinnacle** · 06-28-2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Seattle Junk

You don't you think 4ius + test is enough for the older guy? I know we're about the same age, in our mid 30's. Doesn't GH work better in the older guy because of the natural decrease in natty GH secretion? I know you're right on growth with the higher doses, upwards of 10ius. I believe pros use 20ius+ ed from what I've read. That would be expensive. But if you use 750mgs-1g of test a week with 4ius of GH, I would think the synergysitic effect would be great. I'm not even talking about adding in slin and lr3 either, just test. GH works so well with test, they compliment each other.

1g of test wkly with 4 iu's HGH won't produce any synergy at all(except fatloss..big fvkin deal).You are walking around blind without a cane if you think anything under 10 ius with cause synergy in a cycle.IF you run HGH for about 10 months at a high dose,then do a cycle,yes,you'll get some synergy.But not they way you are thinking.

I know about high dose HGH,as I just ran 18 iu;s ED for 8 weeks straight ,and before that 10 ius ED for quite some time.I've been on HGH for years and have experimented with dose at all lewvels with/without drugs..so I'm talking from first hand experience,not from pubmed..like most in this forum/

~Pinnacle~