HGH Mass Protocol (10iu 3x week)

[unoigo]

I think this protocol was originally put out there by Gavin Kane. Reading through posts on other boards. The high dose/ low freq seems to be a good method for mass. Couple with 5-10iu of slin and the results are amazing. Both are taken PWO only and 3x per week.

I haven't tried it myself but am thinking about it. Curious to know feedback from members here.

[PT]

alot of people do t but personally i would rather have my levles raised twice a day everyday as oppesed to only 3x a week

[goose]

Crap.HGH lasts only like 15-20 or so minutes in the body before its deactivated by proteases and whatnot. This is why HGH takes sooo long to show results. Because everyday you inject it, your only getting 15-20 minutes of supraphysiological HGH exposure. Therefore if HGH lasted lets say 10 minutes, after 7 days of injecting, thats only 70 minutes of total exposure to supraphysiological HGH youve had. The body cant do much growing in just 70 minutes. Hence why it takes months of HGH use to accumulate significant enough time under supraphysiological levels to elicit a noticeable effect.So with gavins method,I wonder how mins your getting per week,a joke.nothing beats injecting 3-4 times per day.

[legobricks]

Crap.HGH lasts only like 15-20 or so minutes in the body before its deactivated by proteases and whatnot. This is why HGH takes sooo long to show results. Because everyday you inject it, your only getting 15-20 minutes of supraphysiological HGH exposure. Therefore if HGH lasted lets say 10 minutes, after 7 days of injecting, thats only 70 minutes of total exposure to supraphysiological HGH youve had. The body cant do much growing in just 70 minutes. Hence why it takes months of HGH use to accumulate significant enough time under supraphysiological levels to elicit a noticeable effect.So with gavins method,I wonder how mins your getting per week,a joke.nothing beats injecting 3-4 times per day.

Thank you goose, you really just enlightened some who were in the dark still about HGH

aka..me

[unoigo]

So for mass gains, 5iu morning, 5iu PWO??

[goose]

Thank you goose, you really just enlightened some who were in the dark still about HGH

aka..me

thats why im so pumped up, the next next level is coming very soon,last ester HGH type.Its will change the game.I mean insane.

To the dude.3iu x 3 per day is amazing....

[200byjune]

idk if i would use 5iu pwo. i dont see such benifit from it there. neither in the morning. when i start i think i will be using it at 530am, 1 hour before i wake. 45min before meal 2. 45min before meal 4. workout being after meal 5

[PT]

idk if i would use 5iu pwo. i dont see such benifit from it there. neither in the morning. when i start i think i will be using it at 530am, 1 hour before i wake. 45min before meal 2. 45min before meal 4. workout being after meal 5

im lost here, how are you going to inject 1 hour before your awake? hgh at 5ius is best split up into 2 doses at 2.5iu. shoot one early morning and another in the afternoon. i perfer to take my 2nd injection pre-workout

[200byjune]

like wake up an hour before you usually wake up then lay down for an hour or so..

[***xxx***]

Crap.HGH lasts only like 15-20 or so minutes in the body before its deactivated by proteases and whatnot. This is why HGH takes sooo long to show results. Because everyday you inject it, your only getting 15-20 minutes of supraphysiological HGH exposure. Therefore if HGH lasted lets say 10 minutes, after 7 days of injecting, thats only 70 minutes of total exposure to supraphysiological HGH youve had. The body cant do much growing in just 70 minutes. Hence why it takes months of HGH use to accumulate significant enough time under supraphysiological levels to elicit a noticeable effect.So with gavins method,I wonder how mins your getting per week,a joke.nothing beats injecting 3-4 times per day.

that s only half of the truth - I dlike to quote myself

the majority of the growth promoting effects of growth hormone is actually due to IGF-I acting on its target cells. and this effect lasts longer than one day.

[legobricks]

thats why im so pumped up, the next next level is coming very soon,last ester HGH type.Its will change the game.I mean insane.

To the dude.3iu x 3 per day is amazing....

Im going to be diggin for as much info as i can as well. Whats this "last ester hgh type" you speak of? Keep me up-to-date!

[goose]

Im going to be diggin for as much info as i can as well. Whats this "last ester hgh type" you speak of? Keep me up-to-date!

Sorry bro,typo,as I type very quick here,as im tight for time,I meant long,All im saying is ConjuChem,this amazing company

[Mutation]

that s only half of the truth - I dlike to quote myself

Exactly. IGF stays active for much longer, and takes time to clear receptors. There are studies that promote Gavin's protocol, but it all comes down to...what works best for the individual.

[Gear]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Gavin Kane says.

-Gear

[Mutation]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Gavin Kane says.

-Gear

Posted by Putin on ProfessionalMuscle:

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH
was the same for both groups.

Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended. They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 superdrol Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 superdrol for first and second year respectively.

Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 superdrol score for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 superdrol score.

During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 superdrol score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment. The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy. The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 superdrol score).

At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
it every day.

The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections. Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected. Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days even after long-term hGH therapy.

The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses, with a frequency of about eight per day." "Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target
tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:

"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree, "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (, indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
at the target organ level (9). "

An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day, split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am) and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm). This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
can utilize at once

Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc.. So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment. Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having: Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH. Slow recovery
Decline in resting cardiac output
Increase fat mass
Decrease in metabolic rate
Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573
With references to 23 studies.

Here are some interesting graphs:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721002.gif
This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment) The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections, note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed to the alternate day group.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721003.gif
This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with
alternate GH injections and daily injections. The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections. In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years after withdrawal of the treatment.

[Gear]

Gavin Kane is a scamming liar who sold bunk products to people for years and now he is finally paying for it. So whos to say that his work isn't as full of $hit as he is.

-Gear

[Mutation]

Gavin Kane is a scamming liar who sold bunk products to people for years and now he is finally paying for it. So whos to say that his work isn't as full of $hit as he is.

-Gear

I don't disagree with you on that one. I just wanted to post up some studies that were done.

[Gear]

-Gear

[***xxx***]

Posted by Putin on ProfessionalMuscle:

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH
was the same for both groups.

Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended. They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 superdrol Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 superdrol for first and second year respectively.

Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 superdrol score for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 superdrol score.

During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 superdrol score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment. The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy. The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 superdrol score).

At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
it every day.

The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections. Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected. Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days even after long-term hGH therapy.

The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses, with a frequency of about eight per day." "Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target
tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:

"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree, "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (, indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
at the target organ level (9). "

An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day, split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am) and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm). This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
can utilize at once

Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc.. So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment. Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having: Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH. Slow recovery
Decline in resting cardiac output
Increase fat mass
Decrease in metabolic rate
Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/8/3573
With references to 23 studies.

Here are some interesting graphs:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721002.gif
This graph shows the difference growth velocity difference pre GH treatment, and at the end of the trial, 4 years after (2 years after withdrawal from GH treatment) The dark bar marks the alternate day injections. The light bar marks the every day injections, note that the every day injections group saw worse long-term (4 yrs) results as opposed to the alternate day group.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/conten...g0828721003.gif
This graph shows the annual bone age advancement in children treated with
alternate GH injections and daily injections. The light bar marks the every day injections, the dark bar the alternate day injections. In first two years (the years they were taking hGH), take a look at the relatively small advantage ED injections gave over the EOD inj, as opposed to the 2 years after withdrawal of the treatment.

why are ed gh injections then still promoted here?

[PT]

Gavin Kane is a scamming liar who sold bunk products to people for years and now he is finally paying for it. So whos to say that his work isn't as full of $hit as he is.

-Gear

exactly gear, i wouldnt belive a word that low life loser says.

[PT]

why are ed gh injections then still promoted here?

because they obviously work very well. myself as well as many other bb's have been doing it for years with great results and all the studies in the world cant change that. trust me bro, injecting 2+ times a day works very well and there are thousands of actual results to prove it

[goose]

That study is a joke.Its for kids,LOL.......I was speaking to Dave Palumbo the other week on that.

[vermin]

I have followed the protocol in Healy et.al. 2003 with good results. This is more of an AAS-type use of HGH (and not one I can currently afford after my Chinaman went away) and has much less affect on BF type stuff than the same overall IUs of HGH taken over a longer period. I took 21IU ED (7IU 3X day, diminished sides compared to 1X day) for 4 weeks.

The quality of the attachment is cruddy due to the 100KB PDF limit, but it should be legible.

[legobricks]

Sorry bro,typo,as I type very quick here,as im tight for time,I meant long,All im saying is ConjuChem,this amazing company

thats cool bro, i was really confused but now i hear you. ITs def. saying something, I just hope it isnt a bunk product as IGF1-Lr3 is with its "claims".

[dlovefitness]

So there is a long ester gh?

[petethemanc]

because they obviously work very well. myself as well as many other bb's have been doing it for years with great results and all the studies in the world cant change that. trust me bro, injecting 2+ times a day works very well and there are thousands of actual results to prove it

I agree with you, this protocol works well for me, maybe not everyone as we are all different, but personally it does work for me.