slin use questions

[fitguy]

what country do you live in? i will give you a website with good prices that will ship there

i know a few sites but there is the shippment and custome fares and taxes which will add much,besides 1us=5.50 egyptian pounds just multiply that in whatever anything you buy there and its like paying that price in dollars if you know what i mean but anyway thanks

[Flex-Appeal]

if I was in Egypt I'd be shooting some good ole test dude

[PT]

i was already having both carbs and protein in my postworkout meals if you looked into the whole thread but it will need digestion for sure cause simply its food.

you did but the wrong kind. apple juice as your carbs and peanut butter as your protein will not work. you CAN NOT have ANY fat at all or you WILL get fat. as for the carbs, way to much sugar. to much sugar will also mean that you will get fat. milk takes to long to digest on top of many other factors as why thats not a good source. you need a good whey shake. something that will break down fast and you definatly need a different source of carbs. trust me bro, the post injection shake is there to hit you fast so the protein and carbs can be rushed into the muscles. its the only way.

[fitguy]

you did but the wrong kind. apple juice as your carbs and peanut butter as your protein will not work. you CAN NOT have ANY fat at all or you WILL get fat. as for the carbs, way to much sugar. to much sugar will also mean that you will get fat. milk takes to long to digest on top of many other factors as why thats not a good source. you need a good whey shake. something that will break down fast and you definatly need a different source of carbs. trust me bro, the post injection shake is there to hit you fast so the protein and carbs can be rushed into the muscles. its the only way.

ok i will be getting way and corn syrup but how much should i conusme for every unit?also why should i consume it immediately post workout why not wait till the slin peaks??

[fitguy]

ok i will be getting way and corn syrup but how much should i conusme for every unit?also why should i consume it immediately post workout why not wait till the slin peaks??

bump

[fitguy]

anyone please

[jimmyinkedup]

10 grams per iu of insulin and u should do insulin pwo and immediately drink your shake containing protein and glucose syrup...

[Narkissos]

you CAN NOT have ANY fat at all or you WILL get fat.

I disagree with a lot of the advice in on this thread... this bit included.

Feel free to reference any of my older posts on insulin in this sub-forum.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

hey guys i am going to use slin postworkout starting at 2iu and increasing by 2iu each time till i reach 10iu and will just keep it that way for 4 weeks,i am using novorapid my question is when is its peak time and when does it get off the body cause i cant remember exactly also i am looking to always keep a source of carbs with me so whenever i get hypo i act quick,was thinking of maybe any type of soda or carbonated drink dont care about adding fat if it will supply me with enough carbs...thanks

Firstly... I understand your rationale for wanting to use slin in your PCT.

It's an awesome compound with pretty sick potential applications.

On another board, we're currently working with a doctor who has, for some years, been utilizing a long-acting insulin (Demetir/Levemir) with top-tier bodybuilders to take them to the next level.

This is one of the few protocols that i have not yet tried... and i have tried a number of them where insulin is concerned.

..from cutting to bulking, w/ anabolics or w/o (primarily i prefer to run slin sans anabolics)... anyway, your question(s).

Your diet needs to be spot on.

I think you're going about it wrong from the very start.

I'd suggest you read more on the drug, and then get your diet suited to capitalize on its inclusion.

For one... i doubt very much that you don't mind if you put on fat.

What's the point of doing so?

Don't confuse your emphasis... i.e. 'muscle retention'.

Firstly, I'd bump your overall kcals to 25% higher than your BMR.

Secondly... relegate 40-60% of carb consumption to the pwo enviroment ...and the in the a.m. on non-training days...if you're running slin on the a.m. on non-training days...

I'd suggest that you run it on non-training days for the increased metabolic benefit... as well as suppression of SHBG synthesis, and the potential increase in FSH.

re: finding dextrose in a arabic-speaking country.

Don't ask for 'dextrose'... ask for 'corn sugar'.

That's food-grade dextrose, made from hydrolyzed corn starch.

Really cheap, and generally hella easy to source.

re: protein

I'd suggest you spend money on the whey.

Although, when i use slin in my contest prep, i don't use powdered protein.

I use liquid egg whites.

Heck.. i don't use whey period.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

re: fat consumed during supraphysiological levels of insulin activity will make you fat.

How does one 'avoid' fat unless your pro/carb sources are eggwhites and white potatoes?

Furthermore polys and monos prevent the crash and lethargy that many users report post-clearance.

The primary reason people 'get fat' from slin is because their diets suck.. plain and simple.

I've used slin while cuttings androgens.

I've been as high as 20 IUs pwo w/ 2-4 gr of carbs per IU.

Kept me full...kept me strong, prevented muscle loss.

Never an hypoglycemic incident btw.

Not that i'm suggesting that the thread-originator use 4gr per IU... Rather, that the 10gr/IU suggestion (on top of their already too-high kcal intake) is what gets many users fat.

I suggest you start at 7 gr/IU... and keep some soda at hand incase you start to feel light-headed.

Additionally.. I would advise that you avoid activity during the time slin is active.. because that can cause you BG to drop drastically.

Avoid showering as well... as that can mask the perception of the changes occuring.

A friend of mine, an IFBB pro, was found in his shower near comatose because he thought it would be cool.

He started to feel relaxed.

That feeling was actually his BG dropping...and him losing consciousness.

I have to chastise veteran users for complacent gestures like this.

-CNS

[PT]

I disagree with a lot of the advice in on this thread... this bit included.

Feel free to reference any of my older posts on insulin in this sub-forum.

-CNS

so your telling me you will consume fats while you slin is peaking?

[jimmyinkedup]

i dunno Nark ..im not trying to be argumentative with you tonight but i don't think its prudent to tell a new slin user to try 7g carbs/iu and also that the fat intake isn't detrimental is necessarily a true statement. Not to mention the fat intake combined with slin will actually lead to increased insulin resistance. JMO
He's obviously new to slin use .....id start at 10g carbs/iu and after using for a while and guaging his reactions/response ...then possibly adjust, again JMO ...
I do agree it prudent to have something on hand regardless of his carb intake just in case he needs a quick dose of sugar...thats been stated above i believe

[T_Own]

hey pt you still wanna give away that protein? lol

i don't know all that much about insulin , but from what it seems, you (nark) definitely do, but that can also lead you to believe its less harmless than it actually is. and since he's a beginner, being overly careful can't hurt, but by jumping past the beginning stages of it (more carbs per iu) he risks serious consequences

[Narkissos]

so your telling me you will consume fats while you slin is peaking?

I will, have, and do.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

that can also lead you to believe its less harmless than it actually is.

I don't believe it is harmless... I do believe that it can be used safely and intelligently.

I do have an issue with the slew of brotelligence which passes for normative information however... which is part of the reason i no longer participate in ergogenic discussions on forums.

Personally i think the PWO application of slin is dated... but it is still a popular method of application.

A lot of misconceptions surround it however.

A lot of symptoms of hypoglycemia reported in the average forum-visiting insulin user for example, are psychosomatic.

i.e. They read on the forum that they're supposed to experience certain reactions... thus certain reactions (not at all indicative of blood glucose shifts) manifest.

Personally I opt for conservative dosages... as well as conservative food application, as opposed to the 'pile it in bro' advice which is the norm.

10gr/IU is too high IMO, and many who work in the sport agree.

4gr/IU is too low for all except the seasoned user, who is in tune with his body.

7gr/IU is just right... particularly so when low doses are being used, as per this thread. (re: 2-6 IUs)

I would reiterate to the thread originator these three things:

1. Get your diet set... No guessing where meals and macros are concerned.
2. Sit on your ass, and do nothing strenuous while insulin is active.
3. Keep a fast-acting carb source on hand for if you start to get light-headed.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

i dunno Nark ..im not trying to be argumentative with you tonight but i don't think its prudent to tell a new slin user to try 7g carbs/iu

See above.

that the fat intake isn't detrimental is necessarily a true statement.

Do not misquote me.

Fat cannot be avoided mate.

I did not suggest that he *add* fat... I simply said that:

"Fats ingested while slin is active will lead to fat gain"... is an erroneous blanket statement. Fat will be found in appreciable quantities in most foods which are considered the cornerstone of bodybuilding nutrition.

...Yes, I'm referring to the lean sources.

5-8 grams in poultry, 10+ beef etc.
2-7 gr in some carbs sources

It adds up...and most people don't realize.

This is part of the reason why the pro/carb pro/fat school of dieting sucks... because one cannot effectively separate fat from carbs unless one switches exclusively to lean fish and eggwhites for protein... and tubers for carbohydrates.

Nowhere above did i suggest to the thread-orignator that the addition of fat was advisable.

I simply responded to PT's regurgitated misconception.

Not to mention the fat intake combined with slin will actually lead to increased insulin resistance. JMO

I think you're a bit mixed up.

I think you're basing your assumption on insulin resistance related to the dietary habits of sedentary individuals.

i.e. the metabolic changes which manifest with the chronic ingestion of large amounts of high glycemic carbs combined with large amounts of fat... as can be found in the day to day diet of the average American.

That, however, is not admissable... or applicable to this discussion.

We're talking about the supraphysiological exogenous application of a nutrient partitioning agent for the purpose of sports and physique enhancement.

Please do not confuse the discussions... Thanks.

He's obviously new to slin use .....id start at 10g carbs/iu and after using for a while and guaging his reactions/response ...then possibly adjust, again JMO ...

You're entitled to your opinion... and i cannot fault you for it.

I have been involved with this sport, and working with athletes for almost 12 years... I've worked with amateurs, a hand full of pros (one who i took from the amateur level to her pro card), and Joe 6-pack.

Still *shrugs* take my experience and statements with a grain of salt.

It does not bother me one way or another.

-CNS

[PT]

i dont think that telling someone to avoid fats is a misconception by any means. i seriously doubt your eating cheesburgers or pizza while your slin is peaking but if you are then your a braver man then me because i make sure my diet is spot on. i have always had great results using slin so im going to stick with my high protein/medium carb/no bad fat diet. everyone here who knows nark knows that he is a load of information and i urge everyone to listen to his words and take his advice but im hard headed and dead stuck in my old ways

[fitguy]

thanks nark and thanks everyone for the answers..peace

[Narkissos]

i dont think that telling someone to avoid fats is a misconception by any means. i seriously doubt your eating cheesburgers or pizza while your slin is peaking but if you are then your a braver man then me because i make sure my diet is spot on.

This is because i'm *not* eating, or suggesting the ingestion of, junk food... I believe was very clear in that regard... but to reiterate:

I did not suggest that he *add* fat.

and:

1. Get your diet set... No guessing where meals and macros are concerned.

Adhering to lean, high-quality sources is fundamental.

The point i was, and still am, trying to get across is that even with 'lean' food sources... an appreciable amount of fat will be ingested.

If the presence of fat while slin was active made one fat, then standards 'bodybuilding foods' (other than eggwhites and potatoes) would make you fat... But they don't, do they?

The take home pointer: 'fats + insulin won't make you fat'.

i have always had great results using slin so im going to stick with my high protein/medium carb/no bad fat diet. everyone here who knows nark knows that he is a load of information and i urge everyone to listen to his words and take his advice but im hard headed and dead stuck in my old ways

We don't totally disagree you know PT... I just don't agree with the blanket statements made on the thread.

That being said... let's get back to the thread

Fitguy... I want to see your diet.

Feel free to post it here for critique:

Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

All the best.

-CNS