interesting read on hgh timings

**G-Force** · 03-31-2009, 12:40 PM

just got this from another board
wanted some opinions as i have been doing hgh PWO with slin for a while now and found it very effective - however this article says its pointless:

HGH - timing and general issues - interesting findings
Hi guys, just tought I would share some info. I've gone through some research articles on hgh and found one article of particular interest:

"Exogenous 20K Growth Hormone (GH) Suppresses Endogenous 22K GH Secretion in Normal Men" Y. Hashimoto et al. 2000

It is of special interest since the experiment was done on 32 HEALTHY adults aged 20-31.

OK, the key findings which contradicts much of the hype around hgh:

*Exogenous hgh administration (sc) will not supress endogenous hgh production before 4 hours after administartion.

*IGF levels will raise slowly in 12 hours after administartion and then raise rapidly and reach a peak about 24 hours after administration.

*Exogenous hgh administration will supress endogenous hgh prduction for about 24 hours. This did even occur at small doses of 1-2iu a day.

*HGH is very dose dependant. A 10iu dose will give a ten fold increase in peak concentration levels of both hgh and igf-1. Also a bigger dose will not increase the supression time or peak times.

In regard to timining of hgh injections this would mean that the best time to inject your hgh is just before you go to sleep. That way you will still get your largest endogenous pulse, which accours about 2 hours after you go to sleep, and when that pulse is over, a little later in about 4 hours you hgh levelse will reach another peak from the hgh administration. The supression of your own hgh will be finished by the time you do your next injection the day after at the same time, so you will still get the deep sleep pulse the night after.

By taking your shots am you will supress all endogenous production of hgh the following nigth. Forget thinking that going up taking your shot 4am or 7am will help you not supress your own production, you will be shut down for 24 hours.

By doing several injections each day like am/afternoon you will shut down your own production completly(if you do ed shots)

The results also contradicts the theory of the hgh 3x blasting method popular for mass gaining. The key there is to maximize igf levels after training,
taking your shots pwo. The shots is supposed to be taken IM. Well first IM shots is not absorbed as good as sc shots, and you will get a somewhat better peak in concetration levels but a somewhat faster half-life time.

Anyway your igf levels will not peak before at least somewhere between 12-24 hours later and the whole dose will be less absorbed. The insulin levelse from your IM slin shot pwo will in no way have any synergy with a pwo hgh shot, because of the delayed increase in igf-1 levels. If you train mon-wed-fri with the 3x blast method your igf levels-1 will be at top the day after when your not training. It's quite important to see the difference between hgh peak time and igf peak time from hgh administration, as their are very different.

All in all bearing in mind that endogenous hgh production in healthy adults range from 0,5-1,5iu daily(I think), it is not that much you loose from beeing completly shut down. But even at larger doses of up to 10iu it should still be no loss of effect to take your hgh dose in one shot. If you take it before bed you igf levels will increase stadily the day after and be in high concetration when you train in the afternoon or evening.

All this assumptions are based on the article mentioned and there could ofcourse be other exmperiments showing different results, but at least this article have 16 citations(meaning that 16 other researchers have used the results from this article in their own articles)

**Dukkit** · 03-31-2009, 12:45 PM

hmm
interesting. looking to throw in some hgh within the next year

ill have to save this

**spywizard** · 03-31-2009, 01:03 PM

ouch, i wouldn't want to be the cat they tested 10iu day on.. the pain would be significant i would expect..

**Flex-Appeal** · 03-31-2009, 01:14 PM

Everything I have learned completly disagrees with the above.
Except taking hgh with slin pwo, I wouldn't do that either probally.
I don't think I will stop taking my hgh dose first this upon waking (6am).

**Flex-Appeal** · 03-31-2009, 01:16 PM

I will copy/paste this later to a couple guys. I'm sure they will want to rip this thread to pieces, but to each his own.

**G-Force** · 03-31-2009, 02:15 PM

flex - can i ask why u dont do slin with the hgh in the same shot PWO?

i have been doing this a while and found it effective
i remember Redbaron saying it was good for increasing IGF levels
this was a couple of years ago though and maybe outdated

i havent been about on the boards much lately so am keen to here new theory's

**Cazadore** · 04-01-2009, 01:00 AM

Interesting, I have heard other things too. However I try to keep an open mind knowing that as our knowledge increases sometimes what we thought we knew was wrong.

What about adding in 1mg Lyophilized Long R3 IGF-1 would that change the timing of the HGH shots needed.

***xxx*** · 04-01-2009, 02:32 AM

thats wut I ve been trying to educate on this board for the last 1/2 year - but no one wants to listen.

those studies clearly show that ED injection of hgh is a waste of money and resources. EOD directly after training is the way to go - new school, that we have been using in Germany for the last 1 1/2 years now...the effect isn t better but as good - and that the important part. less sides, less hgh=same results. it s not that hard to understand...

PT · 04-01-2009, 02:34 AM

were did you get this info?

**daem** · 04-01-2009, 02:57 AM

It all depends on what goals you have...If fat loss, taking it in the AM on an empty stomach before doing cardio is super effective. I've never had great cutting results with it if I administer at night.

For muscle growth, I like dosing at night before bed. That always seemed to work best for me.

I just don't think it is black/white...

**G-Force** · 04-01-2009, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by ***xxx***

thats wut I ve been trying to educate on this board for the last 1/2 year - but no one wants to listen.

those studies clearly show that ED injection of hgh is a waste of money and resources. EOD directly after training is the way to go - new school, that we have been using in Germany for the last 1 1/2 years now...the effect isn t better but as good - and that the important part. less sides, less hgh=same results. it s not that hard to understand...

but surely it is best to have the hgh on training days
i train 2 days on one day off usually
but sometimes i will train 4 days in a row

which means i will administer hgh 4 days in a row PWO with slin

on days i dont train i dont take it

**Flex-Appeal** · 04-01-2009, 12:05 PM

IMO hgh is best taken ED. I don't buy into wasted money bs.
Taking hgh with slin is fine and the two can have great synergy as RB stated. I don't think it's a bad idea to take slin with hgh, I just have not done it. I have only been running it about 2 months so I have had little time for experience with it.

**Flex-Appeal** · 04-01-2009, 12:10 PM

Eod injects IMO are worthless. Hgh stays active for more than 24 hrs but less than 48 (correct me if wrong). So eod even with mega dosing is not the smartest way to run it. I'll ask a couple of others hgh vet guys on other boards to find a general answer.