HGH and T4

**hit_my_max** · 04-13-2009, 04:05 PM

I recently got a pointer to this thread...

Thyroid Hormone + Growth Hormone with James Daemon, Ph.D.

...from Charger on different thread I'm running on this forum. I thought the question I have now warranted a separate thread, so here goes:

Is it really important to run l-thyroxine (T4) with HGH? If so, is a dosage of 125 mcg ED sufficient/OK?

Lastly, assuming HGH + T4 is best, can that be stacked with Clen and LR3 IGF-1? Any issues there?

I'm trying to finish-up my setup to get going here. Many thanks!

**Slide** · 04-13-2009, 05:11 PM

Hey Hit-my-max - i was actually just setting up the same cycle (HGH, T4, and LR3) and I would love some info on this too.

**Silver-Bolt** · 04-13-2009, 05:55 PM

Your T4 dose is a bit high. Try starting with 50mcg and go up if needed. My first GH run was 7 months and I did not use it. After a break I started a second run with T4 and did not notice any real difference. So I discontinued the T4. Your bady may react differently.

**hit_my_max** · 04-13-2009, 07:36 PM

I've read that T4 gets converted to T3 at a 25% ratio, so 125mcg T4 = 31.25 mcg of T3.

Moreover, that our bodies will not covert T4 in excess, i.e. taking 125 mcg a day my not even be enough, but it could never be too much.

Anyone can validate that?

Also still wondering about Clen and if I can stack it in the way I listed above or need to drop it from my cycle (I'm looking to cut primarily, obviously).

**Gear** · 04-14-2009, 01:40 AM

50 - 100mcg of T4 is all you need, no need to take anymore than that. HGH can certainly be used without T4, but the reason why T4 is used with HGH is because HGH lowers your natural T4.

And yes HGH/T4 can be stacked with clen and LR3. This is common practise by many.

-Gear

**hit_my_max** · 04-14-2009, 10:18 AM

As always, thanks Gear for your sound advice.

**ozy1** · 04-14-2009, 10:52 AM

i thought hgh depleted your t3 levels. so you need a small ammount of t3(12.5-25 mcg) a day.and there is no need to take t4 @ all.i am about embark on a gh course so if anybody give advice on this theory it would be much appreciated.

**hit_my_max** · 04-14-2009, 11:53 AM

T4 converts to T3, and some would argue, it's safer to take. Please see the post I linked to at the top of this thread - it's long, but it's very educational. I highly encourage you to check that out. Good luck.

**hit_my_max** · 04-14-2009, 12:10 PM

For those who don't want to read the whole (very interesting article), here's the most relevant excerpt from it:

"So what are we doing when we add T3 to GH? We’re effectively shutting down the conversion pathway that is responsible for some of GH’s effects! And what would we be doing if we added in T4 instead of T3? You got it- we’d be enhancing the pathway by allowing the GH we’re using to have more T4 to convert to T3, thus giving us more of an effect from the GH we’re taking. Adding T4 into our GH cycles will actually allow more of the GH to be used effectively!"

This is substantiated by studies published, and makes complete sense from a bio-chemistry POV, so I would highly encourage you to take l-thyroxine (T4) with your GH cycle...

One questions I still have is: can I take 150 mcg EOD instead of 50 mcg ED? The pills I got are 150 mcg each and I rather not split them if I don't have to. Anyone care to comment on that?

**Gear** · 04-15-2009, 02:53 AM

As I have said a million and one times, HGH lowers your T4, therefore it would be wise to take T4 when using HGH.

-Gear

**hit_my_max** · 04-15-2009, 11:31 AM

Hey Gear - can you comment on my dosage questions above? Thanks!!

**Silver-Bolt** · 04-15-2009, 07:45 PM

T4 half life is 5-7 days.

**Gear** · 04-16-2009, 01:13 AM

That's too much T3 if you end up taking it, 12.5 - 25mcg of T3 is all you will need.

-Gear

**Gear** · 04-16-2009, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by ozy1

i thought hgh depleted your t3 levels. so you need a small ammount of t3(12.5-25 mcg) a day.and there is no need to take t4 @ all.i am about embark on a gh course so if anybody give advice on this theory it would be much appreciated.

HGH effects your T4 (lowers your T4), therefore it would be wise to take T4 when using HGH.

-Gear

**Slide** · 04-30-2009, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gear

50 - 100mcg of T4 is all you need, no need to take anymore than that. HGH can certainly be used without T4, but the reason why T4 is used with HGH is because HGH lowers your natural T4.

And yes HGH/T4 can be stacked with clen and LR3. This is common practise by many.

-Gear

Gear - I am taking 100 mcg of T4 ED. I wanted to know if you think i should split them up into morning and afternoon doses or if taking 100 mcg in the morning would be fine since the half life it so long?

**DCannon** · 04-30-2009, 09:02 PM

I remember Gear saying it might be best to take T4 in the evening.

**Slide** · 05-01-2009, 05:27 PM

What is the advantage to taking T4 at night? i haven't been able to find much info about timing with T4...maybe that means it doesn't matter.

**Gear** · 05-03-2009, 07:03 AM

No need to split the dose.

A higher thyroid response is seen at night when taking T4 VS during the day/AM so I suggest you take it at night!

-Gear

**hit_my_max** · 05-17-2009, 07:05 PM

Hey Gear,

I'm taking 100 mcg T4 with 4 IUs Saizen every morning. I'm taking in the AM because I read it can keep me awake if I take it at night.

Is that true? It's hard enough for me to get good REM sleep, and if I f*&$ it up with T4 I won't be able to work.

Saizen is stroooong shit - let me tell you. Feels great - I'm on day 10 at 4 IUs ED since day 1, have the sides everyone talks about, but the headaches are starting to annoy me. Joint pain (hand/ankles) is still tolerable. I'm monitoring ankle swelling closely, but nothing there yet.

Any confirmation on the sleep implications of T4 at night? If not I'll switch tomorrow.

I love this stuff!! Hopefully my sides won't get bad enough that I'll have to back down my dosage, since Saizen comes in 4 IU vials, which makes it very convenient to take one a day in the AM before work...

**baseballer22** · 05-27-2009, 01:31 AM

hey guys im a newbie, like the insit you guys have. especially gear...so i have a few questions of my own!

i have been running the blue tops(somatropin) for about 2 1/2 months, at 2i.u's before bed, i was thinkin of switchin it up to morning shots with my second kit to see if this works better, what do you think?

also my fat loss is not crazy like i hear thats why i wanna give it another kit. is that normal? will it kick in harder? and should i run that t4 with it...liquid or pills? i have annoying wrist/hand pain, does that go away after ur cycle?

sorry for all the questions guys just tryin to clear things up is all. and final question...i have been really debating on stackin something with this second kit, either masteron or trenbolone e.(100 mg) my body fat is 15-20% at 6' 225 and really wanna cut up. so i was leaning towards the tren , to get the maximum results is this ok or should i stay with just gh?

let me no gear/guys would really appriciate it.

**bjpennnn** · 05-27-2009, 11:38 PM

how old are you if your younger you should def not be injecting at night

**baseballer22** · 05-27-2009, 11:46 PM

i am 24, if you were askin me... and i switched to mornings injections, just maks more sense and what do you guys think of stacking something like tren e with my gh/t4 for about five to ten weeks just to maximize lbm and shedding bf, or anything else other suggestions of stacks with this second kit...or should i just stick with gh/t4 and more cardio? really torn, let me no

**hit_my_max** · 05-28-2009, 11:34 AM

I'd say stick with more cardio and be patient.

You may want to consider adding Chromium Picolinate (330 mcg ED) and Alpha Lipoic Acid (300mg ED) to your cycle to maximize your GH+T4 results.

Run with GH+T4 for at least 8 to 10 weeks before adding anything else. That's what I'm doing.

I'm taking 4 IUs ED + 100mcg T4 ED plus the supplements I noted above for 21 days now and counting. Results are starting to show (nothing much, but some change) - my BF has decreased some and I definitely look more defined (cut) than before, with some gains in LBM.

Again, as many of the experienced folks have said in this forum, GH is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience is key...

**tehpish** · 05-29-2009, 09:00 AM

i am currently doing the GH+T4 combo. Add Chromium Picolinate and Alpha Lopoic Acid huh? how do those assist GH,T4? I need to invest in a M T W T F S S container ( bucket) if i add these to the E , B6 , calcium, zinc, baby asprin, HCTZ, C , and b12 vits.

**Slide** · 05-29-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by hit_my_max

I'd say stick with more cardio and be patient.

You may want to consider adding Chromium Picolinate (330 mcg ED) and Alpha Lipoic Acid (300mg ED) to your cycle to maximize your GH+T4 results.

Run with GH+T4 for at least 8 to 10 weeks before adding anything else. That's what I'm doing.

I'm taking 4 IUs ED + 100mcg T4 ED plus the supplements I noted above for 21 days now and counting. Results are starting to show (nothing much, but some change) - my BF has decreased some and I definitely look more defined (cut) than before, with some gains in LBM.

Again, as many of the experienced folks have said in this forum, GH is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience is key...

Glad you are seeing some results. That is about the time i just started to see results. My gut feeling is that the T4 is probably doing most of the fat burning that early, and the HGH is protacting you from the catabolizing your muscle. Keep us updated.

**lucky27** · 05-29-2009, 10:53 AM

unless doses of gh are high- T3 is not even needed-

**hit_my_max** · 05-29-2009, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by tehpish

i am currently doing the GH+T4 combo. Add Chromium Picolinate and Alpha Lopoic Acid huh? how do those assist GH,T4? I need to invest in a M T W T F S S container ( bucket) if i add these to the E , B6 , calcium, zinc, baby asprin, HCTZ, C , and b12 vits.

Chromium Picolinate and Alpha Lipoic Acid both fight insulin resistance - therefore maximizing the IGF absorption resultant from your GH intake. You may not need them, but I take them as an insurance policy - no harm, no foul - thus only possible upside here.

**hit_my_max** · 05-29-2009, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Slide

Glad you are seeing some results. That is about the time i just started to see results. My gut feeling is that the T4 is probably doing most of the fat burning that early, and the HGH is protacting you from the catabolizing your muscle. Keep us updated.

I believe you're right on the money, Slide. It's encouraging to see initial results. The mood altering effects were felt earlier, and the libido increase is also very welcome. Overall I am extremely happy I started on this journey, and will definitely keep everyone posted on my progress.

In 5 more weeks I'll add AAS into my cycle, as I should have enough of an uptick on my IGF levels by then...

**ezlimitz** · 06-12-2009, 08:09 AM

So I have been on gh for 3 mos and have noticed more energy hence more intense workouts and an overall better sense of wellbeing. I am 50 yrs old and have been "in the gym" for "a long time".

I got some t 4 yesterday along with the ala and chromium. I am incorporating those into my supplements.

What I am considering now is a light cycle so sustanon and perhaps clomid. Any thoughts on what might be an appropiate level on intake? I realize this is a chat board and I'm not looking for medical advise just "internet opinions". Still the info on this board is pretty damn interesting...

I am reading that sustonon has a lot of side effects so is there something else i might try or would I combine sustonon with other supplements.

Terry