First time GH user

[XLCanadian]

Hey guys. Looking to use GH for the first time stacked with AAS. I have done five cycles of AAS previously.

My planned cycle is as follows.

Weeks 1-24: GH 4iu's per day (2iu's in the am, 2 iu's post workout)
Weeks 1-24: Arimidex .5 mg's per day.
Weeks 1-12: Test-E 500mg per week (shot 250mg twice per week)
Weeks 13-24: Test-P 500mg per week (shot 125mg EOD)

Current Stats

height: 6'2"
Weight: 195lbs
BF: 11-12%

If I see good results, I plan on extending the GH use for the full year.

Also, I may add 225mg's of Parabolan weeks 13-24 as well. I have had great previous success with the Parabolan/Prop combination.

Any thoughts/recommendations for this cycle?

Also, I have a month or so to decide as I am just finishing rehabbing some shoulder injuries.

[D7M]

age?

GH is better started a few months in advance to the cycle.

And I'm curious why you're starting a 6 month cycle after coming off an injury?

[XLCanadian]

28 yrs old.

Like I said, I'm finished rehabbing my shoulders. So I figure about a month or so to get myself up to speed. Been throught shoulder issues before and once I'm back to 100% it usually takes me about a month to get myself feeling good in the gym again, doing all the thngs I haven't been able to do.

But please, I respect any questions or advice you have for me. So feel free.

As for the GH, I should run it for a month or two prior?

[D7M]

I'd run the GH for at least 2-3 months before starting your cycle, then increase the dose while on, if you can.

that way, also, you can get back some strength in the gym before stating your cycle.

What's with the 6 month cycle? what's your cycle experience?

[XLCanadian]

If the 2-3 month of gh only is this case, I'm gonna end up skipping the Test-E, and just run prop for the summer.


As for my cycle experience, My first was a simple Winstrol /Clen . Second was a twelve week Cyp/ 8 week Winny combo, followed by a 1.5month off and then my Third which was a 12 week Test P/ 12 week EQ combo.

My fourth and 5th cycles got botched pretty bad due to some bad gear we ran into. Some bad Sust came around and I had to make a choice, either PCT and risk starting my summer cycle late, or Jump straight into my summer cycle early.

Also, I noted my cycle in the original post pretty quick and left out that I'd be taking two weeks to a month off between the two tests, my bad on that one. Pretty noob of me to expect honest critique.

Should read:

Weeks 1-12: GH 4iu's per day (2iu's in the am, 2 iu's post workout)
Weeks 1-12: Arimidex .5 mg's per day.
Weeks 1-12: Test-E 500mg per week (shot 250mg twice per week)

Off time to include consistent GH dose. As well as Arimidex.

*Still undecided as to whether I will just do two weeks off, or a full month with HCG included.

Then:

Weeks 1-12: Test-P 500mg per week (shot 125mg EOD)
Weeks 1-12: GH (same dose)
Weeks 1-12: Arimidex (same dose)

**However, based on your advice I should just run GH for two to three months. Essentially I won't run the Test-E and go straight into a summer cycle around April-May.

So I'm looking more at something like this:

Jan, Feb. March: GH @ 4iu's day (2iu's AM and 2iu's Post workout)

Then when I start my cycle:

Weeks 1-12: Prop @ 500mg's/week (shot 125mg EOD)
Weeks 1-12: Parabolin @ 225mg's / week (shot 75mg's 3 days/week)
Weeks 1-12: Arimidex @ .5mg's/Day
Continue to use GH during this cycle and possibly raise to 5 or 6 iu's /day if funds available.


More like what you are thinking based on my injuries/ cycle history?

Also, I get mixed information on here about GH use. Some info says don't bother without test, some says it's fine to run GH on its own?

Based on my research online there are many different ways to run GH. Multiple ED injections or EOD injections. Which has worked best in your case?

[D7M]

damn. have you ever done a pct?

I like the prop cycle. But you might want to start up slowly with the GH. Start at 2ius/day and work up, and assess the sides.

As far as your questions about the GH. It is "fine" to run on its own, but if you're after building muscle and not just better quality of life and mild fat loss, you can't beat GH + Test.

I've only used multiple ED injections, and worked well for me. I try to take it when I was most catabolic: early am, early afternoon, and (depending on my dose at the time), pwo.

But I really, really encourage to go read in the pct forum and get that straightened out before you do anything else.

[XLCanadian]

LOL. Yes I have done PCT for all my cycles. Just don;t bother notating it as I feel PCT comes pretty standard.

I usually run HCG for 20-40 days depending on cycle length. I also run Nolva every time.

I don't tend to run into many sides either.

As for the GH I'm told its a polypeptide hormone consisting of 191 amino acid residues (191aa).

As for sides, I did read on here that you can get multiple sides from GH use. What have been your most common.

Also, what would you say is the best way to ramp up the GH use?

Start at 2iu's/day split into 2 shots.

Then up to 3iu's split into 2 shots

Then 4ius' and so on.

How long for each "level" til I increase?

Also, I understand not to expect any visible gains for the for first 1.5 to two months. Is my research flawed in this respect?

[XLCanadian]

Again I really appreciate the input. As all my research into GH use has yielded different results from both my source, my friends and online searches.

Really difficult to decide what is best. And I don't want to waste my time/$$$$$

[D7M]

You'd be much better off running the HCG during your cycle.

You could do something like:

Wks 1-3....2iu's one injection
Wk 4.........3iu’s one injection
Wk 6..........4iu’s split into two injections of 2iu’s each.

you get the point.

If you can't tolerate the sides, drop the dose down for a week or two then slowly, work your way back up.

Yah, you're right about not seeing any visible effects in the beginning. And the only sides I got were some minor joint pain, and headaches.

[XLCanadian]

I see.

Well I read a few other pieces on GH (including the writrup on this boards main site) and have read about Gyno??? Makes no sense to me. Best to run Armidex at .25mg to .5 mg /day while taking GH? Like I said, to me any Estrogen related sides on GH make no sense to me as they are not related.

Based on the doses you are suggesting, I imagine for the 2iu and 3 iu doses I am looking at early morning injections.

And why bother with the HCG during my cycle? If I am running low test doses of 400-500mg per week? Please elaborate as all of my current knowledge suggests using HCG post-cycle along with a SERM.

[XLCanadian]

Also, how long is it standard to see results of GH only? I imagine with proper diet and training you see results without anything, what will the GH add to it and when?

[XLCanadian]

I also understand the injection is into the sub-Q fat in the abdomen. Can you inject anywhere you have sub-Q fat or is it strictly in the abs???

[D7M]

Yes, HGH can cause gyno. It's rare, but possible. It's not an Estrogen issue, it's a prolactin one.

HGH has binding affinity for the prolactin receptor and therefore has the ability to directly promote symptoms of gyno through this pathway. If you find yourself having sides just from the GH, you'll need some Caber, not an AI.

Yes, I'd take those small doses early in the morning, leaving some time between your shot and your Meal 1 (if it contains carbs).

Here is a good read for you on HCG , and it's use:

HCG - How important is it?

[D7M]

I also understand the injection is into the sub-Q fat in the abdomen. Can you inject anywhere you have sub-Q fat or is it strictly in the abs???

Technically, you can. But I prefer sub q shots in the abs just because it's easy to see what you're doing

[XLCanadian]

Thanks a lot for the read. No one I know from local gyms has ever run HCG anywhere but PCT. This read totally changes my view on it. Essentially to run HCG during cycle would mean I could run a lighter PCT consisting only of Clomid and Nolva.

As for the GH I imagine the gyno related issues stem from higher level doses. And as for Caber, can you send me a description on it. Never heard about it anywhere but on this board and maybe only read about it twice.

Also, my PCT for HCG was to run it at 500 iu's EOD for 20 - 40 days. I would run concurrently with Nolva.

But your excellent read on the subject is suggesting 125-250iu's 2 - 3 days per week while on cycle along with an AI like Arimidex . But it doesn't specify a PCT for this 21 week cycle study? BTW their use of 250mg/week of Test-E is pretty low.

[D7M]

Running HCG on cycle will also aid in recovery. Your basic SERM pct (nolva and clomid) is fine.

Here's a read for you on Caber: The How To Use Caber Thread

[XLCanadian]

Now I have talked to my source, and he does compete.

He says that running the GH only will only give me that good feeling of well being, and possibly over time lower the bf%.

His advice was for me to run test with the GH, but if I am looking to run the GH for 6 months to a year, how do you suggest cycling the test?

I do know a guy that runs his test four weeks on two weeks off consistently while running GH.

Too much experimentation and not enough straight facts in my mind, but I figured I'd put it to you.

[D7M]

Yah, I agree....GH alone won't yield any huge increase in LBM.

And I liked the prop cycle you posted in in post 5, where you the GH for a while first, then up your dose (of GH, if you can) when you start the prop.

You'll get a ton of opinions, and usually misinformation from guys at the gym. Just keep reading and asking questions, getting several opinions.

[XLCanadian]

So despite the fact that GH alone won't yield much, you still advise using it alone for at least six weeks to get it in my system before adding test to the mix?

If that is the case I will cycle as follows:

Weeks 1-3: GH @ 2iu's/day
Weeks 4-6: GH @ 3iu's/day
Weeks 7-18: GH @ 4iu's/ day (2iu's am, 2iu's post wo)
Weeks 7-18: Prop @ 100mg's EOD (AVG of 350mg's/week)
**Weeks 9-16: Parabolan @ 76mgs E3D (AVG of 177mg's/week)

Then would continue GH and run PCT.

Likely HCG thru week 18-19. Followed by nolva and possibly clomid.

**Still undecided on running parabolan, will determine on bf% and lbm at week 8.

Also, may run arimidex at .25mgs ED while on prop cycle.

Still in progress as GH isn't available to start for another 2 days.

Thoughts?

[D7M]

Looks pretty good to me.

Yes, start the GH before the cycle, assess your tolerance and the sides, and allow your IGF levels to increase.

You plan on upping your GH dose to more than 4iu's a day while on cycle?

Again, I'd use the HCG on cycle. Not just the last week of your cycle.

Are you prone to gyno? Any ERSE from your other cycles?

[XLCanadian]

Is six weeks enough to assess tolerance?

Yes I will go higher than 4iu's per day while on cycle, but only if I can handle it.

As for the HCG while on cycle, even at that low a prop dose?

Gyno prone no, but I fear it lol. Only thing that ever caused symptoms was some bad sustanon 250 that came around.

I just know taking the arimidex will lower any chances + reduced aromatase as much as 50%.

[D7M]

Oh, my bad. I read that wrong. Thought you were running GH for weeks 1-18, then starting your cycle at the 18 week mark.

Run your GH solo for at least 2 months before you begin your cycle, bro.

Good, bump up that dose when you start the cycle.

You don't need the HCG , imo, but if you're going to use it, you might as well use it right: namely--on cycle.

[XLCanadian]

Yah...I think you're right about the HCG . I know a guy never uses it, but he never comes off test. He cruises year round @ 200mg's a week and when he's "ON" he goes up to 500-750mg's/week.

As for my cycle I will re-write it and post it for ya soon based on your recommendations.

IN theory, can u quickly explain why two months of GH alone is required??? So ma ny guys say using it alone is useless.

[D7M]

Yes, start the GH before the cycle, assess your tolerance and the sides, and allow your IGF levels to increase.

You want the synergy that comes from GH + test.

So you don't want to start your growth with your cycle, because you want to give it some time to let your IGF levels build up, and the other things I mentioned above.

Can you start the GH right when you start your cycle? sure, but you'll get much better results the other way.

[XLCanadian]

Right...because the GH doesn't "show" til weeks 6-8 at the earliest.

Great advice bro. So essentially these next 8 weeks will be used to build up IGF...and then when I start the prop the real fun will begin...

[D7M]

^you got it, man.

good luck.

[XLCanadian]

OK

So cycle is as follows:

Weeks 1-8: GH @ 2iu's to 4iu's/day. Will increase based on tolerance.
Weeks 9-20: Prop @ 100mg's EOD (AVG of 350mg's/week)
Weeks 9-20: GH @ 4iu's - 6iu's/day. Based on tolerance.

PCT is nolva and clomid weeks 19-22.

Still debating Parabolan and Arimidex .

Go away in June for a week so I only have 20 weeks to cycle. Will resume gh when I return.

[D7M]

Looks solid.

did I miss it, why the low dose of prop?

And, just in case, pct will start 3 days after your last prop injection.

6ius is ok on cycle, 8ius/day is better, if you can

[XLCanadian]

Low dose of prop is negotiable, may go as high as 525 mg's per week (150mg's EOD). All depends on how I react. I've never needed high doses of test for results.

[XLCanadian]

You mentioned some relation between the morning injection and my first meal containing carbs? Explain?

[D7M]

HGH can raise blood glucose levels, so I time my injections at least an hour away from a carb meal.

It's pretty individual how you'll react, and I doubt you'll become diabetic from a 6 month run of HGH, but if you're overly concerned, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check your BG every so often and see where you're at.

[XLCanadian]

Well

Check my diet out. Not gonna list gram per gram or calories. But if you've ever dieted you know it all adds up lol.

8 am : Protein Shake (40 grams protein) / 2/3 cup of oatmeal

11:00 am: Can of Tuna / Cup of Spinach

2 pm: 2 x 5-6oz Chicken Breast / Large Yam or Sweet Potato / Brocolli or Asparagus

5 pm: Green Apple / Half cup of Dry Roasted Non Salted Peanuts

6pm: Workout

7:30pm : Post workout Shake (40 grams Protein)

8:15 pm: 2 chicken Breasts or Flank Steak or Tilapia / Large Yam or Sweet Potato/ Veg

**I also sometimes throw in another small shake or some form of protein an hour before bed.

Based on the above information it looks to me like the best time to take my shots are 7am or prior and immediately post workout prior to my shake, but at least an hour before my dinner.

I could also move the oatmeal to my 11am meal and take my shot around 8 am?

What do you think ?