How long can you or should you run high levels of GH like 8-10ius before you start to see the bad side effects (other then joint pain) people talk about?
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How long can you or should you run high levels of GH like 8-10ius before you start to see the bad side effects (other then joint pain) people talk about?
It was really quick when I tried. It just took a day. My eyes were puffy, hands puffy, pain in the wrist, couldn't make a fist. I went from 5iu/ed to 10iu to see if I would get sides. I wanted to verify that my HGH was good.
no, Im talking about more permanent side effects like, risks of diabetes, organ growth (GH Gut), hand and feet growth.
Ah, got it. I've been running 5iu/ed for two years and so far so good.
you been cycling during that time too?
Scotchguard, what has the HGH done for you? Did it make you ripped? Did it increase your muscle mass?
My stats:
Age: 50
Ht: 5'11"
wt: 200lbs
bf: 15% (caliper)
cycle exp: 3 cycles (1st-sustanon 250+dbol+HGH, 2nd-Anavar+test+HGH, 3rd-Deca+EQ+Test+HGH)
training exp: 35 years
I started HGH because of my age. I had heard that HGH made middle aged people feel better. The first thing I noticed was that at 7 weeks I lost enough belly fat to see my 6 packs. At 3 months I noticed that my tendonitis in my elbow went away. At 9 months I noticed that I could concentrate a lot better and had more energy. I also noticed that after PCT I still felt pumped and strong. I increased muscle mass with AAS but kept more of it with HGH. HGH is not a magic bullet. When I get off my diet and cardio belly fat comes back. Not as much as when I wasn't on HGH but never-the-less it comes back. I still have to focus on my training, diet and cardio to keep lean. If you're looking to be ripped HGH is not it. You'll get more out of diet, cardio and AAS then you will out of HGH. That's my .02
How do you dose your HGH? DO you take it every day straight for 6 months or something?
typically everyday for most....unless for financial reasons ( primarily) .... then 5 on--2 off....Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth
and yes...for at least 6 months. HGH is a long term thing.
I still feel I have not gotten a real good answer on this one;
How long can you or should you run high levels of GH like 8-10ius before you start to see the bad side effects (other then joint pain) people talk about? like the permanent side effects like, risks of diabetes, organ growth (GH Gut), hand and feet growth
thanks
Bump!
I hate to keep bump'n this but would like to get some thoughts
Bump
I read about 30 articles/papers on the relationship between HGH and IGF. There was a lot of good information but there wasn't a definitive answer saying this many mcg of IGF equals this many iu of HGH. None of the articles said, if you take this many iu of HGH for this long, then you'll experience acromegaly. I've distilled all the information I could find and will draw my own conclusion here. This is just my deduction based on what I've read. I welcome comment on my conclusion.
1. The hormone table from Smith Kline & Company shows the highest level of growth hormone (GH) secretion during puberty, age 12 - 15. 2000mcg=2mg, 2mg=6iu of GH. Kids in that age group are pulsing anabolic levels of GH everyday. The release of IGF is also the highest at 957. This is when kids grow the fastest and boys begin to develop upper body strength.
2. Let's make the assumption that 10iu is approximately 3.3mg of GH.
3. In the chart the IGF of the boys range from 202 to 957 but the GH is constant at 2000mcg. There has got to be a variation in the GH if the IGF level range is four fold. Never-the-less, I'll assume that 957ng/ml of IGF is equivalent to 2000mcg of GH.
4. The next assumption is that the individual has started taking 10iu/ed from the age of 30. According to the table, he is pulsing about .25mg of GH per day naturally. So 3.3mg of synthetic HGH is 12 times the normal gh level.
5. In the plot comparing 24 hour GH release of a normal person compared to a person suffering from acromegaly, showed about four fold higher level of GH hormone in the acromegaly patient.
6. In the papers I read it stated that it takes "years" for the patient to show outward signs of acromegaly. How many years is "years"? I couldn't find any paper that gave a specific time period. But it is not overnight.
7. If an individual is taking 12 times the natural level (10iu/ed), I would think that they would feel the symptoms of acromegaly sooner than someone who's taking 4 times the normal level (3iu).
8. Based on what I read, my conclusion is that my findings are inconclusive. LOL, I think it will take years to show symptoms of acomegaly. But I think "years" will depend on if you take 10iu/ed or 3iu/ed or 5iu/ed. It will also depend on the individual's natural propensity to synthetic HGH.
9. I would say if individuals are using HGH for anabolic affects they can cycle for a year or two without any change in their bone structure. 3iu/ed is probably a much safer dose for longer term use. My .02
Hormonal Table for IGF-1 (Somatomedin C) and GH (growth hormone) Secretion
Age.................Male ng/ml......Female ng/ml....GH Secretion
2 to 5 yrs.........17 - 248.........17 - 24..................?
6 to 8 yrs.........88 - 474.........88 - 474.................?
9 to 11 yrs........110 - 565.......117 - 771...............?
12 to 15 yrs......202 - 957........261 - 1096........2000 mcgs.
16 to 24 yrs......182 - 781.......182 - 781...........500 mcgs.
25 to 39 yrs.......114 - 492.......114 - 492..........250 mcgs.
40 to 54 yrs.......90 - 360.........90 - 360...........125 mcgs.
55 + yrs............71 - 290.........71 - 290............60 mcgs
80 yrs...............1 - 71.............1 - 71...............30 mcgs
Most data copied from Smith Kline & Company.
Data for 80 yrs. is my extrapolation from data in other sources.
Great info Scotch---as usual---reading the last part---synthetic? do you have any idea which HGH is synthetic? or is all of it synthetic? curious---
they are all now days "synthetic" or "recombinant DNA", HGH used to retrieved from human cadavers until the mid 80's
Anything that comes in a vial is synthetic HGH.
so you are saying---if I get my Omnitrope already in a vial it is synthetic?...whereas if I mixed up something myself, it might not be? please distinguish Scotch---thanks--Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02
Yes it is all synthetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimmerMe
Scotch-Great write up! As you indicate in point 8, acromegaly is not instant and even though you may show some syptoms during your hgh use, for the most part it goes away when use stops. You also made the point that the onset and severity is more than likely dose dependent. Personally I have changes in bone structure that is caused from high doses of hgh for many years, however I do not have any other symptoms.
Supe3 I would suggest you run your hgh as you see fit and just as one would with aas use get your bloodwork done regularly and that will tip you off to any irregularities.
Do you mind sharing what bone structure changed?Quote:
Originally Posted by spicyer
I don't want to jack the thread, but I guess it does relate. I have a slight but definite brow bone thickening, it has been described by some as more masculine, if it was more pronounced it could look neanderthal, also not so slight fingers thickening, the top joints look like they are going to pop out of the skin. I was getting a ........ manicure the other day and the lady holding my hand just kept rubbing them and saying how big they are. My girlfriend was watching and she saw them before and now, its kept her from getting too crazy with dosage.
thanks....I do not think a hyjack since the OP was about this----
hope this helps you supe3.....
yeah thanks everyone for your info this is a big worry of mine with HGH
Why would you want to run 8-10 IU's anyway? Keep your max aat 5. That should be enough to meet anyone's goals, assuming you are not a Pro BB'er
I agree----why do you want to do so so much?....that would concern me too...I am concerned with 1 unit!
I've been on 5iu/ed for a while now. I've blasted to 8 - 9iu/ed for about 2-3 months.
My girlfriend insists my feet /toes have gotten bigger... I always try and brush it off like B.S. but to be honest in the last year I have moved from a size 13 shoe to a size 13.5
Now I've found that HGH at a moderate dose like 5iu/ed + peptides (GHRP-6 + CJC-1295), and slin' if bulking, is a much better combination for gains with less sides.
how long have you been doing 5iu/ed? and was the blast up worth the gains?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man
I've been at 5iu for a couple of years. If you want increase in anabolic response, run a cycle of AAS. The HGH will help you maintain your gains.
Probably a year straight now.Quote:
Originally Posted by supe3
No the blast was not worth it. I was looking for anabolic effects from the GH... and instead got wicked-sides, and bloated. Like I said, I found something easier, and costs the same price as adding 4iu more per day. So I chose to stick with the HGH / Peptide route.
I agree with Scotch as well. I don't really see a need to go above 5iu/ed and if you want to grow throw in bursts of anabolics instead of just raising the HGH dose.
Or altneratively for even cheaper then AAS you could just bulk with insulin. But that route is not often chosen.
In any case, the only people who I could see needing more then 5iu/ed are the big-boys competiting in the high weight classes. (just to help keep them so lean w/ so much mass.)
-VM
well thanks guys, Insulin scares me, im a LONG way off from ever thinking about that
It really depends on the person,,genetics other drug use,,,etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by supe3
Vitruvian Man, have you seen any fat burn with the HGH?