GH why are the results different

[sgt2jay]

i know of 2 guys

One age 55 started at running 1.5 iu ED.
Diet spuratic mostly bought pre cooked meals
started at 20% BF
now about 15% BF

other guy 40 running 5 iu split 3 iu IM in morning 2 iu SQ afternoon.
diet much better 40% protien 40% Carbs 20% Fat at about 2100 2200 Calories a day
Started at 20% BF
Now About 18%

Both been running GH (same) just over 2 months
Work out about the same guy number 2 (40 year old) more cardio.

any thoughts??

[ScotchGuard02]

They are running identical HGH from the same supplier? My first thought is the quality of the HGH. Terrible things are coming out of China. There are also some good ones I've seen. I'm wondering if the quality of the HGH is different from each other.

[JimInAK]

IMO- There are too many other factors to assume that the differences between the results of the two men are due to HGH. HGH is much more subtle in its effect than AAS. There are differences between how each individual body metabolizes HGH.

I've been using low doses of HGH for over two years now, 2iu/day and 4iu when on cycle. I've found a remarkable difference between people's reaction to HGH due to their age. Older folks seem to have more positive and more remarkable benefits from HGH than the younger folk. I've watched older folk, over 50, take HGH, stay on HGH and remain on HGH, while I've watched many more younger people take it for a period of time and then decline to reorder when their supply was used up.

I have NEVER had any negative issues with Chinese HGH. What bothers me the most about this website is the constant and relentless attack on Chinese HGH by a few regular posters, including staff here.

If it weren't for Chinese HGH, I and many of my friends would never be able to benefit from its use. I have taken blood tests and strongly believe (and verified by the best and most reliable, practical way to verify genuine HGH, through an IGF-1 blood test) that Chinese HGH obtained through an honest, reliable source is good as gold.

Scammers are everywhere and not just in China. Most UGLs sell Chinese hormones, testosterone, deca, etc. and there is never any debate whether those Chinese products are good. I don't know what drives some here to post such strong opposition to a product that has been successfully manufactured in China for many years now. It seems emotional, rather than rational.

Most people could NEVER afford genuine HGH if only provided with the opportunity to buy the domestic product. There is a very good reason that millions of dollars are spent every year on Chinese HGH... It's because the genuine Chinese product is excellent.

If it make you feel good and safe to pay more than most people pay for typical home rental or their new car payment to buy domestic product, go ahead... I respect your right to choose. But don't try to tell me the sky is falling because I know better.

[Sgt. Hartman]

IMO- There are too many other factors to assume that the differences between the results of the two men are due to HGH. HGH is much more subtle in its effect than AAS. There are differences between how each individual body metabolizes HGH.

I've been using low doses of HGH for over two years now, 2iu/day and 4iu when on cycle. I've found a remarkable difference between people's reaction to HGH due to their age. Older folks seem to have more positive and more remarkable benefits from HGH than the younger folk. I've watched older folk, over 50, take HGH, stay on HGH and remain on HGH, while I've watched many more younger people take it for a period of time and then decline to reorder when their supply was used up.

I have NEVER had any negative issues with Chinese HGH. What bothers me the most about this website is the constant and relentless attack on Chinese HGH by a few regular posters, including staff here.

If it weren't for Chinese HGH, I and many of my friends would never be able to benefit from its use. I have taken blood tests and strongly believe (and verified by the best and most reliable, practical way to verify genuine HGH, through an IGF-1 blood test) that Chinese HGH obtained through an honest, reliable source is good as gold.

Scammers are everywhere and not just in China. Most UGLs sell Chinese hormones, testosterone, deca, etc. and there is never any debate whether those Chinese products are good. I don't know what drives some here to post such strong opposition to a product that has been successfully manufactured in China for many years now. It seems emotional, rather than rational.

Most people could NEVER afford genuine HGH if only provided with the opportunity to buy the domestic product. There is a very good reason that millions of dollars are spent every year on Chinese HGH... It's because the genuine Chinese product is excellent.

If it make you feel good and safe to pay more than most people pay for typical home rental or their new car payment to buy domestic product, go ahead... I respect your right to choose. But don't try to tell me the sky is falling because I know better.

The people on this site who are warning others about the dangers of Chinese generic GH are doing so not based on emotion but because they (like myself) have had serious health issues from taking an inferior product. If what you're taking is a legit pharm grade comparable product then why doesn't it have a label and why do you not know what lab it came from and why can't you tour the "lab"? Even ugl AAS labs can put a label on a vial.

IGF-1 levels are not a good indicator of the validity of your GH. Supplementing with IGF-1 LR3 would cause levels to skyrocket but that doesn't mean you have GH. Even if it is GH it could have impurities or fillers that could cause dangerous side effects. A 191amino acid poly-peptide chain made from e-coli isn't something that can be produced correctly in some second rate underground Chinese lab.

I'm not saying that you don't have 100% pure GH, but if you do, that doesn't hold much merit as to the quality of the majority of the unlabeled generic GH coming out of China.

[songdog]

So wats the safe bet when buying

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ pharma grade......

[JimInAK]

....

[JimInAK]

The people on this site who are warning others about the dangers of Chinese generic GH are doing so not based on emotion but because they (like myself) have had serious health issues from taking an inferior product. If what you're taking is a legit pharm grade comparable product then why doesn't it have a label and why do you not know what lab it came from and why can't you tour the "lab"? Even ugl AAS labs can put a label on a vial.

IGF-1 levels are not a good indicator of the validity of your GH. Supplementing with IGF-1 LR3 would cause levels to skyrocket but that doesn't mean you have GH. Even if it is GH it could have impurities or fillers that could cause dangerous side effects. A 191amino acid poly-peptide chain made from e-coli isn't something that can be produced correctly in some second rate underground Chinese lab.

I'm not saying that you don't have 100% pure GH, but if you do, that doesn't hold much merit as to the quality of the majority of the unlabeled generic GH coming out of China.

I would be very interested to know the SPECIFIC "serious health issue" that YOU actually suffered.

Generic Chinese HGH doesn't have a label because it is currently a grey market, if not a black market product. Your statement that "even ugl AAS labs put a label" does not convince me that the unlabeled product is inferior... labels are cheap and do not assure content or quality.

Substituting IGF-1 LR3 for HGH sounds like a convincing scam. However, excellent generic Chinese HGH cost comparable to or much less than IGF-1 LR3, depending on your source. That's like substituting gold for platinum. There would be no net gain, particularly for a manufacturer that produces a quality product for a fraction of the cost of the American product. The American product price is propped up by a monopolistic pharm system. That's why you can get HCG in India for less than one-tenth the price of the SAME product sold in the USA. It's not about cost, it's about how much will the market bear.

I can't speak for other's bad experiences. However, how do you know that your over-priced American product is genuine and not a counterfeit. Due to the high price you are paying for what you think is a genuine, American product, you may be inviting a scam due to the profit to be had because of the tremendously high prices involved.

The bottom line is to know your source. That is done through reputation, knowledge of other satisfied customers and your personal knowledge, including sides, observed benefit, and an IGF-1 blood test... which does indicate whether the product is genuine, albeit through inferential indicator. You can game the test with IGF-1 LR3, but that would not efficiently enrich any scammer, because the cost is comparable.

You can get screwed buying any HGH under the current system. There was a federal prosecution of a pharmacy in Colorado a few years ago, for repackaging and selling Chinese HGH, all while their customers went through the whole $$$ "AMA approved" $$$ scam-ola process. Their only guarantee was that the pharmacy was making a tremendous amount of money for something that cost them about 10% (or less) of their inflated selling price.

The bottom line is to know your supplier, to trust, but verify.

[sgt2jay]

first of all i wanted to stay away from the china debate.

2nd the 2 people using same GH same supplier. for arguement sake lets assume all is legit and stay on topic.

And i agree i know eveyrone warning about china does so with good intentions, but when every topic leads to the china is crap debate people who have legit questions dont get them answered.

it would be nice if some of the moderators could get this under control and keep the post on point

[Sc0rch]

I agree with JimInAk 100%.

There seems to be a push by the staff that ALL generic is junk, not just to be careful with who your source is. These same people must think it's horribly difficult to print a pharm label and attach it to a vial?

The staff here needs to warn that ALL HGH, whether pharm or generic, can be faked and to be careful who your source is. If they expressed that the generic is more likely to be faked, that may be true and ok, but they overwhelmingly infer that ALL generic is faked and ALL pharm is NOT faked.

It's almost like they have a hidden agenda, maybe some kind of stake in a certain pharm grade HGH.

[SlimmerMe]

I agree with JimInAk 100%.

There seems to be a push by the staff that ALL generic is junk, not just to be careful with who your source is. These same people must think it's horribly difficult to print a pharm label and attach it to a vial?

The staff here needs to warn that ALL HGH, whether pharm or generic, can be faked and to be careful who your source is. If they expressed that the generic is more likely to be faked, that may be true and ok, but they overwhelmingly infer that ALL generic is faked and ALL pharm is NOT faked.

It's almost like they have a hidden agenda, maybe some kind of stake in a certain pharm grade HGH.

NO hidden agenda whatsoever. Simply trying to educate to keep the members safe. 'Tis true.

[sgt2jay]

mayeb antoher way to educate is to stick to the topic of the thread. answer the questions asked.

i seems that on here regardless of the question it turns into a debate china good china bad. WE GET IT!! not all answers are its bad stuff you must have gotten bad generics.

if you want to educate us on bad GH start you own Thread dont hijack mine. I just thought it would be a good topic that can educate on how everyone reacts differently and reassure that the GH process varies and takes time.

I see that was a waste of time.

[lifeforce0019]

The people on this site who are warning others about the dangers of Chinese generic GH are doing so not based on emotion but because they (like myself) have had serious health issues from taking an inferior product. If what you're taking is a legit pharm grade comparable product then why doesn't it have a label and why do you not know what lab it came from and why can't you tour the "lab"? Even ugl AAS labs can put a label on a vial.

IGF-1 levels are not a good indicator of the validity of your GH. Supplementing with IGF-1 LR3 would cause levels to skyrocket but that doesn't mean you have GH. Even if it is GH it could have impurities or fillers that could cause dangerous side effects. A 191amino acid poly-peptide chain made from e-coli isn't something that can be produced correctly in some second rate underground Chinese lab.

I'm not saying that you don't have 100% pure GH, but if you do, that doesn't hold much merit as to the quality of the majority of the unlabeled generic GH coming out of China.

This is a very important point Sgt. Hartman. Can you please substantiate this critical claim with blood work data. Thanks, Lifeforce

[hwy1378]

^^^ pharma grade......

If I could find pharmacy grade I would but as far as I can see I can't find it

[JimInAK]

Those promoting the exclusive use of pharma grade HGH fail to explain just how to get their certified, verified, and otherwise elusive magical product. Should I be wearing ruby slippers or what?

It's legally unavailable in any useful quantity for mere mortals. Thus it is a black market item and just as unverified as any other black market. This is a fact.

There are two ways to obtain it that I am aware of.

(1) Buy the product from an aids patient. I personally object to buying medicine from a person who would benefit from using it.

(2) Buy the product from a broker in Mexico. The cost of the product is still eight to ten times more than the genuine Chinese product.

A common citizen in the US cannot obtain certified pharm grade in any useful quantity. Thus I question how answering any question with "pharma grade HGH" is a valid answer, as there is no such thing as available pharma grade prescriptions for any quantity over 2iu/day.

Am I wrong? If so, how do mortals get this verified, certified, nonpoisonous and unquestionably superior American product? Understand, I'm not asking for a source, I have mine....

And I don't have to click my heals together and chant: "There's no place like home, Dorothy!"

[Sgt. Hartman]

I would be very interested to know the SPECIFIC "serious health issue" that YOU actually suffered. If you really want to know, I'll PM you the details. It was a legitimate health concern evident in my bloodwork that started within 4 weeks upon changing colored tops and was back to normal within 3 weeks upon discontinuing.

Generic Chinese HGH doesn't have a label because it is currently a grey market, if not a black market product. Your statement that "even ugl AAS labs put a label" does not convince me that the unlabeled product is inferior... labels are cheap and do not assure content or quality. I wasnt implying that a label was an assumption of quality, but the issue is that without a label the product cannot have any kind of consistent reputation. At least the chinese gh with labels (rips, elites, kigs, etc) can be discussed by users and thus be known for its quality or lack thereof. It's very convenient for sources and manufacturers of the unlabeled GH that there is no way of distinguishing their product from another except by the color of the tops, which is obviously ridiculous.

Substituting IGF-1 LR3 for HGH sounds like a convincing scam. However, excellent generic Chinese HGH cost comparable to or much less than IGF-1 LR3, depending on your source. That's like substituting gold for platinum. There would be no net gain, particularly for a manufacturer that produces a quality product for a fraction of the cost of the American product. The American product price is propped up by a monopolistic pharm system. That's why you can get HCG in India for less than one-tenth the price of the SAME product sold in the USA. It's not about cost, it's about how much will the market bear. This is true when comparing IGF-1 to unlabeled GH but there would definitely be a net gain when in comparison to pharm grade.

I can't speak for other's bad experiences. However, how do you know that your over-priced American product is genuine and not a counterfeit. Due to the high price you are paying for what you think is a genuine, American product, you may be inviting a scam due to the profit to be had because of the tremendously high prices involved. The only pharm grade I have heard of being counterfeited is Norditropin Simplexx which is being sold by some AAS sites at less than half the cost of real pharm grade. A little common sense goes a long way. Why go to the trouble of replicating the labels and packaging of pharm grade when everyone buys unlabeled vials anyway?

The bottom line is to know your source. That is done through reputation, knowledge of other satisfied customers and your personal knowledge, including sides, observed benefit, and an IGF-1 blood test... which does indicate whether the product is genuine, albeit through inferential indicator. You can game the test with IGF-1 LR3, but that would not efficiently enrich any scammer, because the cost is comparable. I used to think the same thing but the source doesn't really know any more about what's in the vial than the end consumer. The source didn't manufacture it or see it be packaged into vials nor has any idea in what kind of sanitary conditions all this was done. My old blue top source (same source that caused me problems) is trying to get his IFBB pro card right now and still takes 10iu a day and swears on the quality of the product. Even if it is a legit unlicensed GH lab, it only takes one slip up in the manufacturing/packaging process for a dangerous contaminant to wind up in the vial and injected into your body.

You can get screwed buying any HGH under the current system. There was a federal prosecution of a pharmacy in Colorado a few years ago, for repackaging and selling Chinese HGH, all while their customers went through the whole $$$ "AMA approved" $$$ scam-ola process. Their only guarantee was that the pharmacy was making a tremendous amount of money for something that cost them about 10% (or less) of their inflated selling price.

The bottom line is to know your supplier, to trust, but verify.

^^^^

Your GH might very well be legit. But of the dozen or so websites selling unlabeled GH that I can think of off the top of my head, how many of them do you think are 100% pure active GH? The problem IMO with promoting the use of unlabeled GH on this board is so many people who are new to GH and don't know what real GH should do will read posts promoting the unlabeled generics and think that "blue tops" are g2g or "yellow tops" are strong as hell and a good product. Pretty irresponsible IMO.

There are other ways to get pharm grade GH than what you mention. Anti-aging clinics, friendly docs willing to give prescriptions, and a few black market AAS suppliers also sell pharm grade GH.

[nmber21]

I am one of those using unlabeled GH and i really dont know what the feeling is suppose to be like and it is kida sad because I have been hurt foro the last 8 years with surgeries i just want to heal and it does scare me that i dont know if im putting baking soda or what for the fact that i want to just get better and cant afford sch high prices.. just my 2 cents

[JimInAK]

The best way to know if you have the genuine product is by taking an IGF-1 blood test. There are those here who disagree, but science does not back up their assertions.

Here's a quote from a blood testing company: "IGF-1 is produced in response to growth hormones released by the pituitary gland. Therefore, IGF-1 levels highly correlate with the "average" circulating levels of growth hormone in the blood. However, IGF-1 levels are more constant than growth hormone levels because IGF-1 has a longer half-life. Because of this the IGF-1 test is commonly regarded as the best way to measure human growth hormone (HGH) levels and activity."

Others may claim that this is not an accurate indicator. However, this is how effectiveness is determined by Doctors and by testing companies. This is the blood test that I use to determine if I am using a genuine product.

[marcus300]

The best way to know if you have the genuine product is by taking an IGF-1 blood test. There are those here who disagree, but science does not back up their assertions.

Here's a quote from a blood testing company: "IGF-1 is produced in response to growth hormones released by the pituitary gland. Therefore, IGF-1 levels highly correlate with the "average" circulating levels of growth hormone in the blood. However, IGF-1 levels are more constant than growth hormone levels because IGF-1 has a longer half-life. Because of this the IGF-1 test is commonly regarded as the best way to measure human growth hormone (HGH) levels and activity."

Others may claim that this is not an accurate indicator. However, this is how effectiveness is determined by Doctors and by testing companies. This is the blood test that I use to determine if I am using a genuine product.

Thats not true ^^^ I would also do more research on how reliable IGF blood tests are, even the labs who sells blood test kits wont be held liable for them being accurate because blood plasma levels change quite rapidly throughout the day and there is way to much variation between levels in these tests, it was documented somewhere how unreliable these test are and the variation between test are very dramatic. Timing is also crucial, if the blood isnt tested within a certain time period it can throw the test out either way, storing of the blood is also huge and the transportation of the blood and also the actual test there are many different ones what use different methods of testing, there are to many if's and but's surrounding blood gh test and ive seen some crazy levels one day and low levels the next. Majority of the more expensive gh test use immunoassays which are not classed as reliable anymore even the IOC are developing a further test because they have found this method being unreliable and showing a to wide range of levels which cant be proven if contested unless backed up with daily gh test's.

If you want to test for real GH have the gh powder tested and also if the hormone is active, that's a far better true indication if your gh is 100% or not.

If I remember right you have never used pharm grade hgh so how do you know how your suppose to react. They can also put IGF or even ghrp-6 to increase your igf levels on a blood test and dont even think igf is more expensive because it isnt and they can produce it for peanuts. You have bought Chinese hgh for the last couple of yrs and your mind wont except it could and most probably is fake so its pointless in trying to convince you, if your happy you carry on buying it.

[Sc0rch]

Do normal variations in IGF levels coincide with what a 5iu dose could yield?

In other words, if I pin 5iu of legit HGH, then time the test for peak IGF, would a normal variation ever even be close to that reading?

Secondly, what else besides HGH or IGF would cause IGF blood levels to rise?

[marcus300]

Many things can ghrp-6 to name another,

seek pharm grade and take the risk out of the situation, I wouldnt use generic gh if it was free, try pharm grade and see what proper gh is suppose to do to you.

[BG]

Well said. I couldn't agree more. I've gotten welts, acne, gyno and a rash from various Chinese gh. I've still have not ever had results like the hg jins years ago and I've ran every generic up until the all the bs ones that popped up this year.

Thats not true ^^^ I would also do more research on how reliable IGF blood tests are, even the labs who sells blood test kits wont be held liable for them being accurate because blood plasma levels change quite rapidly throughout the day and there is way to much variation between levels in these tests, it was documented somewhere how unreliable these test are and the variation between test are very dramatic. Timing is also crucial, if the blood isnt tested within a certain time period it can throw the test out either way, storing of the blood is also huge and the transportation of the blood and also the actual test there are many different ones what use different methods of testing, there are to many if's and but's surrounding blood gh test and ive seen some crazy levels one day and low levels the next. Majority of the more expensive gh test use immunoassays which are not classed as reliable anymore even the IOC are developing a further test because they have found this method being unreliable and showing a to wide range of levels which cant be proven if contested unless backed up with daily gh test's.

If you want to test for real GH have the gh powder tested and also if the hormone is active, that's a far better true indication if your gh is 100% or not.

If I remember right you have never used pharm grade hgh so how do you know how your suppose to react. They can also put IGF or even ghrp-6 to increase your igf levels on a blood test and dont even think igf is more expensive because it isnt and they can produce it for peanuts. You have bought Chinese hgh for the last couple of yrs and your mind wont except it could and most probably is fake so its pointless in trying to convince you, if your happy you carry on buying it.

[BG]

Your so full of shit. I've ran some sero and the og jins from gensci, all these generics don't stand up. I get better results from ghrp then Chinese gh. Just because you can't

Those promoting the exclusive use of pharma grade HGH fail to explain just how to get their certified, verified, and otherwise elusive magical product. Should I be wearing ruby slippers or what?

It's legally unavailable in any useful quantity for mere mortals. Thus it is a black market item and just as unverified as any other black market. This is a fact.

There are two ways to obtain it that I am aware of.

(1) Buy the product from an aids patient. I personally object to buying medicine from a person who would benefit from using it.

(2) Buy the product from a broker in Mexico. The cost of the product is still eight to ten times more than the genuine Chinese product.

A common citizen in the US cannot obtain certified pharm grade in any useful quantity. Thus I question how answering any question with "pharma grade HGH" is a valid answer, as there is no such thing as available pharma grade prescriptions for any quantity over 2iu/day.

Am I wrong? If so, how do mortals get this verified, certified, nonpoisonous and unquestionably superior American product? Understand, I'm not asking for a source, I have mine....

And I don't have to click my heals together and chant: "There's no place like home, Dorothy!"

[marcus300]

Well said. I couldn't agree more. I've gotten welts, acne, gyno and a rash from various Chinese gh. I've still have not ever had results like the hg jins years ago and I've ran every generic up until the all the bs ones that popped up this year.

Your so full of shit. I've ran some sero and the og jins from gensci, all these generics don't stand up. I get better results from ghrp then Chinese gh. Just because you can't

Your on the money as always BG

Many of these generic lovers have never used pharm grade and have never experienced what 100% pharm grade gh can do to you if you use it properly. Ive transform my body using pharm grade gh and these Chinese generics dont even come close to the real thing, they are full of chemicals to fool you. Many wont and will not be convince because they dont want to think they have spent $$$$$'s on crap gh but in reality they have but wont admit it. I say leave them to it but for the educated ones seek a licenced lab or pharm grade and see the results for yourself..

[Sc0rch]

Your so full of shit. I've ran some sero and the og jins from gensci, all these generics don't stand up. I get better results from ghrp then Chinese gh. Just because you can't

I thought this was a no flame board? Instead, we have another staff member's approval? Great.

You're either happy with the cost/benefit of generic or you're not. I am very happy with my generics and have been getting great results. You need to accept the fact that many people are happy with their generics and that your source was bogus and you injected garbage. Maybe you should research your sources better next time.

Secondly, there was at least one person in the concerns thread that said that he couldn't tell the difference between his Dr prescribed HGH and his generic.

Also, I didn't know you could take enough ghrp-6 that would make your IGF levels rise to what a legit 5iu dose of HGH would do. Wow!

[marcus300]

I thought this was a no flame board? Instead, we have another staff member's approval? Great.

You're either happy with the cost/benefit of generic or you're not. I am very happy with my generics and have been getting great results. You need to accept the fact that many people are happy with their generics and that your source was bogus and you injected garbage. Maybe you should research your sources better next time.

Secondly, there was at least one person in the concerns thread that said that he couldn't tell the difference between his Dr prescribed HGH and his generic.

Also, I didn't know you could take enough ghrp-6 that would make your IGF levels rise to what a legit 5iu dose of HGH would do. Wow!

Ive tried every generic brand out there over the last 10 yrs,

Ive also used the best sources and have very good contacts in China,

I know someone in China who is a good friend of mine who sent me the best generics going, he also said what bottles would I like them in and what labels I would like on them, I said none but send me the labels, he did and sent me nearly every generic labels going to stick on myself, what does that tell you!! doesn't need a genius to work that one out does it lol,

Nearly every one using gh will use it along side steroids so you never know what gains you got fromt he gh, also they put in many different chemicals what produce gains in some form or another.

You really need to open your eyes and try pharm grade at some stage then you will know what the experienced users's mean.

Theres no conspiracy here, all we are trying to do is look after your long term health,

Again, if you happy you carry on but for me I wouldn't use them if they were free.

[JimInAK]

You guys who talk smack about Chinese HGH are full of claims and accusations, but are awfully light in the facts department.

Marcus claims: "If you want to test for real GH have the gh powder tested and also if the hormone is active, that's a far better true indication if your gh is 100% or not."

OK Marcus, I have a question that would be very helpful for me to determine the legitimacy of your claim... Can you give me the name and contact information necessary to find the company that does YOUR special, never fail test, that you regularly quote, but never provide specific information for? Please ???

BG - You pop up to mimic Marcus and call names from the peanut gallery. But you share the shame "lack of facts" affliction with your associate. How many people do you think you've influenced or impressed with your high level of persuasive banter ???

I'm looking for facts... and subversion of the facts, including claims that aren't backed up with facts are a joke, plain and simple.

J-O-K-E... Where's the beef ??? LOL!!!

[marcus300]

You guys who talk smack about Chinese HGH are full of claims and accusations, but are awfully light in the facts department.

Marcus claims: "If you want to test for real GH have the gh powder tested and also if the hormone is active, that's a far better true indication if your gh is 100% or not."

OK Marcus, I have a question that would be very helpful for me to determine the legitimacy of your claim... Can you give me the name and contact information necessary to find the company that does YOUR special, never fail test, that you regularly quote, but never provide specific information for? Please ???

BG - You pop up to mimic Marcus and call names from the peanut gallery. But you share the shame "lack of facts" affliction with your associate. How many people do you think you've influenced or impressed with your high level of persuasive banter ???

I'm looking for facts... and subversion of the facts, including claims that aren't backed up with facts are a joke, plain and simple.

J-O-K-E... Where's the beef ??? LOL!!!

If you would of took the time to read the concerns thread relating to Chinese gh you would of seen that finding a lab what test's for the hormones being active is hard and when you do they want close to 10k for the trouble,the Chinese know this that's why many claim get it tested. If you want to make sure you have 100% gh buy from a licenced lab end of story and you dont have to worry or take any risk!! you also need to try pharm grade so you can speak from both sides of the fence instead of from someone who as been buying generic for only 2yrs.

Ive used generic Chinese gh on and off for the last 8 to 10yrs and ive also have many personal friends/online friends who have used it aswell. Majority have reported bad side effects and in some cases life threatening complications. I have used pharm grade for many yrs previously and i know what it can do and Chinese generics don't even come close. Have you ever heard of anyone claiming that they have bought from pharm grade company and they suspect its fake, no its never been claimed but just look how many claim something is wrong with their generic brand. Its hard to take anything you say when you have zero experience on using pharm grade.

If you also do a search online you will see many concerns regarding Chinese gh. I've had a very good relationship with many Chinese sources some of them are the best you can find but in reality all they are concerned about is money and not the product. I was told by a good Chinese source friend that they are producing all kinds of chemicals what mimic gh side effects and they are also using IGF, anit-diuretic hormones, and other chemicals what simply dont work as good as real gh.

All this as been discussed in the Chinese concern thread so I find it rather irritating to have to keep repeating myself over and over again to someone has never used pharm grade and who wont admit he could of been fooled and wasted his money, dont worry I have wasted enough over the yrs!! I dont express my opinion for any kind of gain, I do it because its what ive seen and what ive experienced over the many yrs of using HGH. Infact its only recent ive found a pharm grade lab what's reasonable and i'm happy they are selling 100% hgh......If you happy taking your generic gh from second rate labs you carry on but I wouldn't take them again if they were free or you paid me to take them.

[sgt2jay]

Look i get the concerns about china, but was this thread started to find out the good and bad about china? NO!

I started it with the hopes of getting a good educated thread on how the same product effects two people to comletely different ways. it helps show how this is a long comitted process.

All i see is everyone comitted to a pissing match about china.
I think its time we all get the moderators to get control of this. I used to come here to get sound reliable advise. now all i get is china good china bad regardless of the initial topic.

If i asked the color of the rainbow would i get the answer depend on if you see it in china? then to have it spin into a heated debate on chinas fake color yellow.

stay on topic! I get it we need to know all concerns. if its that important to you start a thread about the concerns of China. Wait there is one use it not mine.

[BG]

All the facts the need to be known is you have no idea what is in that unlabeled vial that some chinese guy sends you. If you look at just the problem with script meds that are sent out of china, cialias that was sheetrock, kids toys that had lead paint, sheetrock that made people sick when building houses, I could go on and on. They don't give a shit what they're big companies put in their products could you imagine what the Chinese under ground labs are like? That's where this is coming from. I've had nasty reactions to many of their gh and ice used pharm grade so I can what I want. You are stuck believing you are you using a good product which I guarantee isn't close to as pure as they claim or even what they claim it to be. Chinese gh is what it is....and what that is we don't know. So for you to sit here and CLAIM there is good quality Chinese gh put there is a long shot at best.

You guys who talk smack about Chinese HGH are full of claims and accusations, but are awfully light in the facts department.

Marcus claims: "If you want to test for real GH have the gh powder tested and also if the hormone is active, that's a far better true indication if your gh is 100% or not."

OK Marcus, I have a question that would be very helpful for me to determine the legitimacy of your claim... Can you give me the name and contact information necessary to find the company that does YOUR special, never fail test, that you regularly quote, but never provide specific information for? Please ???

BG - You pop up to mimic Marcus and call names from the peanut gallery. But you share the shame "lack of facts" affliction with your associate. How many people do you think you've influenced or impressed with your high level of persuasive banter ???

I'm looking for facts... and subversion of the facts, including claims that aren't backed up with facts are a joke, plain and simple.

J-O-K-E... Where's the beef ??? LOL!!!

[Sc0rch]

When you get your HGH, unless you get it from the pharmacy, or the actual lab itself, you run the risk of it being faked. Again, labels don't have anything to do with ensuring the viability of the product. Pharm labels can be easily printed.

Provide lab tests of the generics that support your claims that the non-HGH substances are actually in the generic HGH.

[sgt2jay]

Edit. Anymore flamming and you will be banned.

[sgt2jay]

maybe banned those who hijack thrreads and cant stay on point

[BG]

Relax Sgt.

[sgt2jay]

IM Relaxed just the same discussion on all threads gets old.

[BG]

No worries, I'll see if we can get some post deleted.

[sgt2jay]

thanks and sorry about the rants.
it just i use this site a lot for info there are many who have helped me get from 290lbs to 200lbs over the past year. this is a great site for support and info and id hate to lose people who provide good helpful info. i feel this could happen when everything turns to the china debate. and just my $.02 i appreciate all the warnings and will use the advise.

[JimInAK]

I have no interest in flaming anyone. However, when information is being given that does not reflect reality, I've responded directly to the incorrect assertions.

There is a quite a bit of information given on this site that reflect prejudice and ignorance. I've ask direct questions to reveal the truth to those with an open mind... and the response from detractors of the truth is further misdirection and assertion of unsubstantiated opinion.

You're gonna have to read between the lines on this site, when it comes to discovering the truth. Detractors make their unsupported attacks and then try to quash discussion.

If you listen to and trust opinion that ignores fact, you are trying to carrying water in a bucket full of holes. The facts are available for those willing to look for the truth.

[BG]

No matter what you say or how you say it your still wrong.....you just don't agree with us.

[JimInAK]

No matter what you say or how you say it your still wrong.....you just don't agree with us.

Or... You're still wrong... you just don't agree with us.

There are two sides to this debate and your refusing to consider my side of your argument doesn't make me wrong.