HGH and Thyroid protocol

**sizzlechest** · 10-08-2011, 11:33 AM

Im looking for a good HGH and T4 T3 cycle. Dosages etc.... Thanks

**Hondarocks** · 10-08-2011, 05:36 PM

Are you sure you want to mess with T3, T4 stuff or synth? Thats a quick way to dependency for life if you mess up. Be careful.

**sizzlechest** · 10-08-2011, 10:43 PM

im looking fora low dose cycle to boost the efficacy if the hgh.

**Hondarocks** · 10-08-2011, 10:47 PM

Well if you can find a good cycle let me know, cause Im on GH and would like to boost the efficiency. If I recall, its only going to boost the fat burning effect of it correct?

**sizzlechest** · 10-09-2011, 08:58 AM

It seems like no answers yet, I found a couple of other boards suggesting 50-100 mcg of T4 a day.

**littlebill** · 10-09-2011, 01:50 PM

We use .0125 mg or 12.5 mcg of T3 a day. Never tried T4 but g says it's better and I'm willing to learn something new. It does present s synergy with HGH and offsets many of the sides. Frequent bloods are a must. And BTW yes the dependency is there- as your thyroid will never be the same so you better be in it for the long haul...GL

**Hondarocks** · 10-09-2011, 07:19 PM

What does taking T3 to T4 do and how does it boost GH effectiveness?

**littlebill** · 10-09-2011, 07:41 PM

I will not take credit for this- but I had on file an it gets to the point or I would rewrite it and sound like an expert on this topic- which I am not. only on HGH
The body produces two thyroid hormones, the first is thyroxine (T4) and the second is triiodothyronine (T3), which is the most widely used thyroid hormone in the world of muscle building. T4 is the inactive thyroid hormone and needs to be converted to T3 to exert thyroid-specific effects. This is done by the enzymes in the deiodinase group, of which there are 3 types – D1 and D2, which involved in the initiation of the process of conversion of T4 to T3 and D3, which is involved in the deactivation process.

The secretion of T4 is created in the thyroid gland and is stimulated by Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which in turn is stimulated by Thryrotropin Releasing hormone (TRH). So, when T3 levels rise, the body says, ‘hey, I have enough T3 floating around, so I need to cut back’, which it does by suppressing TSH (this is known as a ‘negative feedback loop’). Incidentally, thyroid hormones require insulin or IGF-1 to trigger their effects.

Growth hormone (GH) is produced in the pituitary gland and is regulated by factors such as hormones and enzymes. It is regulated by two hormones Somatostatin (SS) and Growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). When there is too much GH circulating the body another negative feedback loop tells it to produce SS to decrease GH levels. When the body has too little GH, GHRH is produced.

GH has the ability to stimulate the conversion of T4 to T3, making thyroid hormones partially dependent on GH. Somatostatin (which is secreted when GH levels are too high) can also inhibit TSH secretion or reduce TRH secretion, which means it can limit the amount of T4 produced by the body. This means that although GH increases the conversion of T4 to T3, which means more T3, it may actually mean lower than normal T4 levels.

GH gene transcription is what gives GH its wonderful effects (such as muscle growth, fat loss etc) and T3 enhances these effects, making GH and T3 extremely synergistic, in fact, T3 is the limiting factor in exogenous GH usage. Here we now have a contradiction: T3 and GH are synergistic, but too much T3 decreases the anabolic effects of GH.

This is where Anthony Roberts (a well known steroid and performance enhancing drugs expert) hypothesised that it is the conversion process of T4 to T3 that is important. Let me explain. When there is too much T3 in the body and normal levels of T4, the thyroid sends a signal to produce less D1 and D2 (the activators) and more of D3 (the in-activator) and thus inhibits many of the synergistic effects of T3. When D3 levels are high, growth factors such as IGF-1 are stimulated, which means D3 is an important part of the equation with regards to the anabolic effects of GH.

Now for the part you have all been waiting for, the summary and conclusion…

When growth hormone is taken, along with T3, the GH will stop converting T4 to T3 after a certain point, which means it will shut of the good, anabolic effects of GH by killing the pathway that creates them! This, to me, seems like a bad thing! Now if we add T4 into a GH cycle, we would enhance this pathway, giving the GH more anabolic effects!

Remember that T4 alone is pretty ineffective for our purposes and requires something like GH to be made effective.

I have actually seen how effective using T4 in conjunction with GH is, first hand. An athlete I was working with was dieting for a show using GH and T3 (along with many other anabolic compounds), but was seeing no change in his fat to muscle ratio. Even with changes in his diet, such as lowering carbs, increasing cardio and even lowering calories, there were minimal changes, at best. T4 was introduced and within 1 week a change of 2.5% body fat and an increase of 1kg of muscle was measured! This is a pretty drastic change in any book.

**Sgt. Hartman** · 10-09-2011, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hondarocks

What does taking T3 to T4 do and how does it boost GH effectiveness?

Read this. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.TpJM481XvVU

**littlebill** · 10-09-2011, 07:42 PM

well I posted a well written answer- but it needs approval for posting so hang on

**littlebill** · 10-09-2011, 07:47 PM

The body produces two thyroid hormones, the first is thyroxine (T4) and the second is triiodothyronine (T3), which is the most widely used thyroid hormone in the world of muscle building. T4 is the inactive thyroid hormone and needs to be converted to T3 to exert thyroid-specific effects. This is done by the enzymes in the deiodinase group, of which there are 3 types – D1 and D2, which involved in the initiation of the process of conversion of T4 to T3 and D3, which is involved in the deactivation process.

The secretion of T4 is created in the thyroid gland and is stimulated by Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which in turn is stimulated by Thryrotropin Releasing hormone (TRH). So, when T3 levels rise, the body says, ‘hey, I have enough T3 floating around, so I need to cut back’, which it does by suppressing TSH (this is known as a ‘negative feedback loop’). Incidentally, thyroid hormones require insulin or IGF-1 to trigger their effects.

Growth hormone (GH) is produced in the pituitary gland and is regulated by factors such as hormones and enzymes. It is regulated by two hormones Somatostatin (SS) and Growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH). When there is too much GH circulating the body another negative feedback loop tells it to produce SS to decrease GH levels. When the body has too little GH, GHRH is produced.

GH has the ability to stimulate the conversion of T4 to T3, making thyroid hormones partially dependent on GH. Somatostatin (which is secreted when GH levels are too high) can also inhibit TSH secretion or reduce TRH secretion, which means it can limit the amount of T4 produced by the body. This means that although GH increases the conversion of T4 to T3, which means more T3, it may actually mean lower than normal T4 levels.

GH gene transcription is what gives GH its wonderful effects (such as muscle growth, fat loss etc) and T3 enhances these effects, making GH and T3 extremely synergistic, in fact, T3 is the limiting factor in exogenous GH usage. Here we now have a contradiction: T3 and GH are synergistic, but too much T3 decreases the anabolic effects of GH.

This is where Anthony Roberts (a well known steroid and performance enhancing drugs expert) hypothesised that it is the conversion process of T4 to T3 that is important. Let me explain. When there is too much T3 in the body and normal levels of T4, the thyroid sends a signal to produce less D1 and D2 (the activators) and more of D3 (the in-activator) and thus inhibits many of the synergistic effects of T3. When D3 levels are high, growth factors such as IGF-1 are stimulated, which means D3 is an important part of the equation with regards to the anabolic effects of GH.

Now for the part you have all been waiting for, the summary and conclusion…

When growth hormone is taken, along with T3, the GH will stop converting T4 to T3 after a certain point, which means it will shut of the good, anabolic effects of GH by killing the pathway that creates them! This, to me, seems like a bad thing! Now if we add T4 into a GH cycle, we would enhance this pathway, giving the GH more anabolic effects!

Remember that T4 alone is pretty ineffective for our purposes and requires something like GH to be made effective.

**littlebill** · 10-09-2011, 08:16 PM

Honda I'd love to chat with ya. I'll ask mods tomorrow of they may activate my pming and allow my t3 post. Gotta hit the sack. This is a great place with great folks and we can all help each other out.

**SlimmerMe** · 10-09-2011, 08:55 PM

Here is a great thread re: thyroid /hgh

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.TpJeRxw0jDo

**Hondarocks** · 10-09-2011, 10:18 PM

Yea for sure. I know how you feel I felt limited at first, you just have to stick it out, we will talk soon for sure. PM as soon as you have access.

**ata1979** · 10-10-2011, 12:33 AM

I'm taking norditropin at the moment and I take a T3/T4 mix called Bitiron with it. It definately has a synergistic effect.

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Hondarocks

Yea for sure. I know how you feel I felt limited at first, you just have to stick it out, we will talk soon for sure. PM as soon as you have access.

It's posted. Same references the other gentleman posted.

**SlimmerMe** · 10-10-2011, 09:04 AM

^^^ a Lady! LOL! I have been called "Bro" though....

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

^^^ a Lady! LOL! I have been called "Bro" though....

So I get it correct- you are a female correct? Sorry didn't know- now I do!

lol

**SlimmerMe** · 10-10-2011, 10:07 AM

Yep a female .... NP.....

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by ata1979

I'm taking norditropin at the moment and I take a T3/T4 mix called Bitiron with it. It definately has a synergistic effect.

Ok so obviously I need T3/T4, Bitiron looks good because it does both, what dosages should I take?

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 10:30 AM

Ok how do you prevent hypo thyroidism after getting of medication, or permanently suppressing it?
My roomate has some T4, ill start taking 25mcg a day till my Bitiron comes in. How does that sound?

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 10:32 AM

good study on Bitiron

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20190547

**SlimmerMe** · 10-10-2011, 10:34 AM

I am not so sure you need both.....have you done any BW?

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 10:43 AM

It is made from pig thyroid in Turkey and recommended dosage is 1 pill a day. No personal experience but have heard positive things. Easy to obtain. It's a 4:1 ratio of T4:T3. Recommended dose is 1 pill per day which contains 50mcg of T4 and 12.5mcg of T3.

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

I am not so sure you need both.....have you done any BW?

Yea. What do you need to know.

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

I am not so sure you need both.....have you done any BW?

OK so just take the T4, and mabey take half the rec dosages, like 25mcg? When is the best time of the day to take it.

**SlimmerMe** · 10-10-2011, 10:45 AM

TSH
t3
t4
reverse t3
etc
do you have any of these?

keep in mind t3 is catabolic....

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 10:50 AM

T4 is ineffective without HGH but with HGH it is highly anabolic ! BTW good informative post.

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 10:52 AM

Ok i have T4 right now that my roomate gave me, How much do I take and when do I take it, I already pinned GH this morning about an hour ago.

**SlimmerMe** · 10-10-2011, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hondarocks

OK so just take the T4, and mabey take half the rec dosages, like 25mcg? When is the best time of the day to take it.

now you are asking for controversy! Many have so many different opinions on this. Some say first thing in the morning and make sure no coffee or OJ or much of anything since can interfere with uptake. And many think at bed time since your hormones repair then but at bed time many members feel wired on the T4. It actually helps me to fall asleep but I am on the desiccated thyroid porcine mix myself and have been on just t4, just t3, and now both but I am off the gh. This is where you might try both both ways as far as timing.

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 11:00 AM

If only T4 start with 50mcg ED. But like the lady

said you need BW. Thyroid is not something to play with.

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 11:02 AM

Like Slimmer said BW is crucial before you jump into anything. You need a baseline reading. Why do you feel the need as of now. You are on a rather light dose of HGH.

**littlebill** · 10-10-2011, 11:06 AM

Really- not trying to be a DB but dont just take the plunge into T4 without major research. It is as serious as starting slin. Major ramifications if not done perfectly and at this point of your career in BB do you need to take such drastic measures? I took HGH at high doses such as 3mg plus for over 5 years before I messed with my thyroid and I will never mess with slin. Once you start you may be dependent for life. The thyroid and pancreas do not have much room for rebound as our testosterone and somatotropin production do.

**Hondarocks** · 10-10-2011, 11:23 AM

Ok fck the T4, im just gonna stay on the gh, I am going to go up too 2iu's a day next month. A lot of people here dont know why I am taking GH, I need to make a post about it, then you will all understand.