HGH Reverse Loop

[Hondarocks]

I have heard this before, what does it mean and can someone explain it.

[SlimmerMe]

Called a Negative Feedback Loop. In essence what this means is that your own natural growth hormone pulse gets used to the synthetic gh so it starts to rely on it thus not feeling needed anymore. So if this happens then your own gh production starts to either slow down or even shut down.

Make sense?

[DesPr8]

Whoa that sounds crazy. How does it happen, and is it rare or do u got to pin 12ius daily or something.

[M302_Imola]

SlimmerMe hit the nail on the head! This is my biggest concern when using HGH. From my research this why HGH is best used in smaller more frequent doses in which clearing time is 3 hrs. or less. I also believe that avoiding the before bed shot of HGH will help keep endogenous GH production. I also think the use of GHRP/GHRH will help in this matter. The body naturally releases endogenous GH in pulses throughout the day. The best way to ensure it continues to produce these pulses is to mimic these pulses with HGH, not inject a huge amount of HGH at one time rather a few pulses of a small amount of GH every 3.5 hours or so. The use of GHRP/GHRH will also strengthen your endogenous GH pulses when used correctly.

[M302_Imola]

sorry dbl post

[Times Roman]

yet another reason, amongst many, that i've decided to go the peptide route. much better to have your body release GH naturally, as opposed to exogeneous GH.

one of the drawbacks of peptides, imo, is that it will only take you so far...

[Sc0rch]

Read RedBaron's post in the FAQ. He was on for 7 years then had his levels checked and they were normal/slightly above normal.

[Times Roman]

Read RedBaron's post in the FAQ. He was on for 7 years then had his levels checked and they were normal/slightly above normal.

link?

[SlimmerMe]

To me...the negative feedback loop is a huge reason to stay away from gh until really needed hence why IN MY OPINION it is best to use only once your own production starts to lower which is why I discourage anyone under 35 to take it. To me not worth messing with your endocrine system.
And the only members who might be an exception to this rule IMO would be someone who is seriously dedicated to counting every single macro as they pack pre-counted pieces of chicken prepared for tupperware and measure each and every ounce of cottage cheese, oats and egg whites and do not deter for one second not to mention work out religiously. Members who are preparing to get on stage with a 4-5% BF along with other humongous guys professionally as a career. And they are 100% sure of their quality grade of gh and they are educated as to the pros and cons and choose to make an informed decision as they need the edge to compete professionally.

NOTE: ALL ABOVE IS MY OPINION as I do not want to start getting flack from others on this.

[Times Roman]

you know, Slimmer,another reason I chose peptides over GH? I think if I had a good legit source, then maybe, maybe not. but buying off the internet from a chinese source is a recipe for getting ripped off. We've had many discussions on this, and i remember 90+% of all GH sold over the internet is bunk. what are the odds that i might be a lucky 10%'er? no thanks!!

[gixxerboy1]

Slimmer have you any studies, links or proof that there is a neg feed back loop with GH?
Where did your opinion come from?

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ please do not ask me for proof as if you read my post you saw it was my opinion. Plain and simple. I have read numerous books and articles and have concluded that gh is best when your own natural production starts to lower as it makes pure common sense not to interfere with a good thing. Just like Life itself. If you have a good thing, then messing with it does just that. Messes with it.

[Hondarocks]

I am 29, and had to go the GH route before 35 for my stated reasons of needing the therapy. I am also going to start the GHRP and GHRH peptide route as Imola is. I really feel I was not going to get any better without the synthetic GH, the use of the peptides will only help me from having a reverse loop.

[Sc0rch]

link?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d#.TqrPBHLRSb0

"I have recently come off of a 7-year run of HGH. I personally pull my own blood panels every six weeks routinely. After many months of being off of HGH, I now have the same profile I had before I began its use many years ago … high normal for my age. All levels and markers are perfectly normal."

[gixxerboy1]

^^^ please do not ask me for proof as if you read my post you saw it was my opinion. Plain and simple. I have read numerous books and articles and have concluded that gh is best when your own natural production starts to lower as it makes pure common sense not to interfere with a good thing. Just like Life itself. If you have a good thing, then messing with it does just that. Messes with it.

What made you form that opinion? That neg fed loop can even happen? I understand its your opinion but if you are going to advice other people on it, people should know why you have that opinion.

[Times Roman]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d#.TqrPBHLRSb0

"I have recently come off of a 7-year run of HGH. I personally pull my own blood panels every six weeks routinely. After many months of being off of HGH, I now have the same profile I had before I began its use many years ago … high normal for my age. All levels and markers are perfectly normal."

thanks.

I'm not an expert on GH, but i have a general understanding of how it works. And unlike testosterone , I didn't think that taking GH impacts natural GH production or it's release from the pituatary.

My understanding is that GH production remains relatively constant over one's life, yet it's release from the pituatary declines with age.

The thing I like about peptides, is that it triggers a release, from the pituatary, of GH. So the GH is natural, and therefore adheres to the natural GH pulse cycle you ordinarily would expect. The down side, is that there is a diminishing return with peptides. This means that, strangely, the more peptides you take, you marginally get less GH release, until you reach a certain point where it max's out somewhere in the neighborhood of an equivalent of 5 or 6iu of GH per day. For some, including me, that is quite sufficient. Others, that is not enough. I've heard, but not seen, that some blokes will take upwards of 20iu of GH per day.

[gixxerboy1]

TR, I dont know much about peptides. Never really looked into them much. But is there any down fall if you take enough to get it equivalent to 5 or 6 iu's

[DesPr8]

Isnt this the reason to pin on and off, to avoid these things?
I dont have selective day off I just pin on workout days for the most part its 4to5 and 3to3 off.
Depending really this week I have a cold so plenty of fluids and water and no gym.

[gixxerboy1]

the 5 on 2 day off started to save $ not running 7 days a week

[Times Roman]

TR, I dont know much about peptides. Never really looked into them much. But is there any down fall if you take enough to get it equivalent to 5 or 6 iu's

not that i can tell. the peptides are simply protein molecule fragments and have very few sides as I've seen so far. I'm 4 months in, and taking cjc-1295 and ghrp-5 three times a day. one of the sides is supposed to be increased appetite, and i get that mildly.

cost is inexpensive. say im taking enough to aproximate 5 iu of GH. Say the GH is $5/iu. So $25/day or $750/mo for GH. And i believe that to be a very conservative estimate, actual costs would probably run higher.

but the cost for the peptides is running me less than $200/mo.

i go through 4ea 2mg vials of cjc-1295 mo at $30 each = $120, plus
2ea 5mg vials of ghrp-5 at $35/vial = $70
so the total is something like $190/mo

i plan on running for a year, then take a look and then decide to continue or cease.

we'll see

[SlimmerMe]

What made you form that opinion? That neg fed loop can even happen? I understand its your opinion but if you are going to advice other people on it, people should know why you have that opinion.

isn't this forum about differing opinions? and besides, I am not the first to ever mention a negative feedback loop around here so why don't you prove it doesn't and we can go from there

[Hondarocks]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d#.TqrPBHLRSb0

"I have recently come off of a 7-year run of HGH. I personally pull my own blood panels every six weeks routinely. After many months of being off of HGH, I now have the same profile I had before I began its use many years ago … high normal for my age. All levels and markers are perfectly normal."

I am happy to hear this, what would you say was your average iu's a day was?

[gixxerboy1]

isn't this forum about differing opinions? and besides, I am not the first to ever mention a negative feedback loop around here so why don't you prove it doesn't and we can go from there

wow. You got very defensive.Yes it is about different opinions. And i asked what formed yours? Which is a relevant question and what the forums are for.

I got my opinion from my own personal use and friends use. Also never seeing any documentation that a hgh shutdown exist.
I dont how you want me to prove a negative.

If you are going to tell someone not to do gh at a certain age because X may happen. Then you should be able to say why it happens or you think that. You are staff people are assuming you know what your a talking about.

[DCannon]

For some reason I can't reply with a quote.

Anyways, TR, I assume you mean GHRP-6. I've never heard fof GHRP-5.

Also, you should try and switch to Modified GRF1-29 instead of the CJC-1295 due the long half life of the CJC. It's counter productive to what you want.

[SlimmerMe]

wow. You got very defensive.Yes it is about different opinions. And i asked what formed yours? Which is a relevant question and what the forums are for.

I got my opinion from my own personal use and friends use. Also never seeing any documentation that a hgh shutdown exist.
I dont how you want me to prove a negative.

If you are going to tell someone not to do gh at a certain age because X may happen. Then you should be able to say why it happens or you think that. You are staff people are assuming you know what your a talking about.

As well as you too are staff and should not be calling out another staff member by telling me I am defensive. I do not appreciate it. This is not the first time you have challenged me to prove myself and I find that in itself quite offensive.

Now back to the topic where we can all have our own opinions which is what this is about.

[gixxerboy1]

As well as you too are staff and should not be calling out another staff member by telling me I am defensive. I do not appreciate it. This is not the first time you have challenged me to prove myself and I find that in itself quite offensive.

Now back to the topic where we can all have our own opinions which is what this is about.

I asked you nicely for a link or studies in my first post. Maybe you are right an i wanted to learn something new.

Asked you to prove yourself? i asked you what form that opinion. What is wrong with that? like you said how do we talk about topics of you wont discuss how you came up with something.

i never called you out. I said you got defensive and its obvious that you are.

Maybe you shouldnt comment on a subject then if you arent willing to back up what you say or alteast give a reason behind it.

you say you shouldnt do gh younger then 35? Why. What happens at 35. did you just make that number up? Why not 40?

Now i called you out. I was nice and asked legitimate questions before regarding the topic.

I wouldnt come on here and say its safe for a 15 year old to run gh. Then asked why say its my opinion prove im wrong.

[SlimmerMe]

^^ I will answer you "nicely" and here is what Marcus wrote and hopefully this will be good enough for you unless you want to ask him to prove it to you personally with scientific journals.

by Marcus300

Like many hormones which are triggered by the HPTA have a negative feedback
loop, which simply means when levels are to high it will blunt the release
of any further hgh. HGH isnt just produced at night while in REM it pulses
throughout the day but the main the release is at night so taking HGH can
blunt some of the normal pulses throughout the day or night depending when
you take it. Ive read an article by Red Baron stating using exogenous HGH
will create this negative feedback on your HPTA for about 4 hours

[gixxerboy1]

^^ I will answer you "nicely" and here is what Marcus wrote and hopefully this will be good enough for you unless you want to ask him to prove it to you personally with scientific journals.

by Marcus300

Like many hormones which are triggered by the HPTA have a negative feedback
loop, which simply means when levels are to high it will blunt the release
of any further hgh. HGH isnt just produced at night while in REM it pulses
throughout the day but the main the release is at night so taking HGH can
blunt some of the normal pulses throughout the day or night depending when
you take it. Ive read an article by Red Baron stating using exogenous HGH
will create this negative feedback on your HPTA for about 4 hours

Well you could have said that the first time i asked. I was looking for more info. Becasue maybe i was wrong and could learn something. You didnt need to keep dodging the question.
Second it says a 4 hour negative feedback. you talk about a permenant one. And were did you come up wit hthe age of 35?

[SlimmerMe]

Well you could have said that the first time i asked. I was looking for more info. Becasue maybe i was wrong and could learn something. You didnt need to keep dodging the question.
Second it says a 4 hour negative feedback. you talk about a permenant one. And were did you come up wit hthe age of 35?

LOL! GET OFF MY BACK! I never said permanent so do not put words in my mouth. ANd made it very clear it was my opinion. Why don't you get your own opinion instead of contesting mine.

And for your own good I would appreciate it if you would please learn to use 2 little magic words that will open any door with ease. One little word is thanks and the other little word is PLEASE.

[Times Roman]

For some reason I can't reply with a quote.

Anyways, TR, I assume you mean GHRP-6. I've never heard fof GHRP-5.

Also, you should try and switch to Modified GRF1-29 instead of the CJC-1295 due the long half life of the CJC. It's counter productive to what you want.

you caught me, huh? =) I did mean GHRP-6. Actually had to go to the fridge and double check.

I still have a two month supply of the CJC, and will be in afghanistan for 2.5 months, so I may place a small order andhave it shipped here.

can you PM me some info on the thought process as to what you describe? regarding the GRF1-29? maybe some links? I'm out the door and will probably forget all about this by the time i have time to return here....

Thanks
---Roman

[SlimmerMe]

Age Male ng/ml Female ng/ml GH Secretion 2 to 5 yrs. 17 - 248 17 - 248 ? 6 to 8 yrs. 88 - 474 88 - 474 ? 9 to 11 yrs. 110 - 565 117 - 771 ? 12 to 15 yrs. 202 - 957 261 - 1096 2000 mcgs. 16 to 24 yrs. 182 - 779 182 - 779 500 mcgs. 25 to 39 yrs. 114 - 492 114 - 492 250 mcgs. 40 to 54 yrs. 90 - 360 90 - 360 125 mcgs. 55 + yrs. 71 - 290 71 - 290 60 mcgs 80 yrs. 1 - 71 1 - 71 30 mcgs

[M302_Imola]

Interesting thread guys. As with anything else, I believe there is a safe way to use HGH...much like aas. Those that abuse aas run the risk of shutting down endogenous test production and in turn are relient on HRT. From what I have researched, HGH can be a fairly safe tool in acheiving lean muscle mass goals. The biggest concern in terms of HGH reverse loop is the clearing time of the HGH adminstered. Ideally you want the HGH active life in the body to be no longer than 3 hours...this will help to ensure that the body's endogenous GH production will not hindered for extended amounts of time. This is why I believe that using more than 4IU's at one given time is a no-no in terms of keeping endogenous GH production going. That doesn't mean you can't go above 4IU's on the day, just means the dose should be spread out and not giving the body a shock at one time of more than 4IU's. Something else to consider is to adminser the HGH IM not sub q since the clearing time of IM is much shorter than sub q. When you look at the body's endogenous production of GH it occurs during the day and night in pulses...so why not pulse exogenous GH as well? Essentially you are making the body's natural GH pulses much stronger and larger spikes. This is why I like the idea of pinning peptides waiting 10 mins and then pinning HGH IM. In doing this, the body will treat the exogenous GH adminstered as more of a huge endogenous GH spike. I am also a firm believer that not pinning HGH to close to bed time will help to keep endogenous GH pulsating. NOTE: these are my opinions based on my research on HGH and peptides. I have not personally used HGH to date, but have been on peptides for about 5-6 months now. I am however about to jump on the HGH train

[DrHealth]

Sermorelin could be your answer?

[Hondarocks]

Interesting thread guys. As with anything else, I believe there is a safe way to use HGH...much like aas. Those that abuse aas run the risk of shutting down endogenous test production and in turn are relient on HRT. From what I have researched, HGH can be a fairly safe tool in acheiving lean muscle mass goals. The biggest concern in terms of HGH reverse loop is the clearing time of the HGH adminstered. Ideally you want the HGH active life in the body to be no longer than 3 hours...this will help to ensure that the body's endogenous GH production will not hindered for extended amounts of time. This is why I believe that using more than 4IU's at one given time is a no-no in terms of keeping endogenous GH production going. That doesn't mean you can't go above 4IU's on the day, just means the dose should be spread out and not giving the body a shock at one time of more than 4IU's. Something else to consider is to adminser the HGH IM not sub q since the clearing time of IM is much shorter than sub q. When you look at the body's endogenous production of GH it occurs during the day and night in pulses...so why not pulse exogenous GH as well? Essentially you are making the body's natural GH pulses much stronger and larger spikes. This is why I like the idea of pinning peptides waiting 10 mins and then pinning HGH IM. In doing this, the body will treat the exogenous GH adminstered as more of a huge endogenous GH spike. I am also a firm believer that not pinning HGH to close to bed time will help to keep endogenous GH pulsating. NOTE: these are my opinions based on my research on HGH and peptides. I have not personally used HGH to date, but have been on peptides for about 5-6 months now. I am however about to jump on the HGH train

Well Im on the GH train and you got me on the Peptide train and I'm better for it, hope you get the results I am getting when you start the GH when using both. woot woot

[M302_Imola]

Well Im on the GH train and you got me on the Peptide train and I'm better for it, hope you get the results I am getting when you start the GH when using both. woot woot

For the money I'm spending I better!