HGH Dose Response Curve

[AnabolicDoc]

http://pi.lilly.com/us/humatrope-pi.pdf

This is the link for the prescription insert for Humatrope by Eli Lilly. The dose response curve graph is on page 12 (btw it was an old post by gixxerboy1 that introduced me to this graph).

Please click on link above and look at graph before continuing.

I propose that if one follows the parameters of this curve and injects 0.1mg/kg (0.27iU/kg) of hGh by either subq or IM injection, they should be able to demonstrate the potency and quality of their generic hGH. Then one can confirm or dismiss the integrity of their hGH (assuming it's not pharm grade and needs confirmation).

Following the above and the dose response curve, a 100kg (220lbs) individual would therefore inject 27units (yes it's a lot, but that's how Eli Lilly did their analysis) of hGH by either IM or subq route and have their blood sampled between 2 to 4 hours post injection. If it's comparable to pharm grade hGH, then the plasma GH concentration should be between 45 to 60ng/ml (closer to 60 if IM close to 45 if SQ).

I understand that many may think this is a waste of time bc they believe that all generics of hGH are garbage and only peptides at best. This may be true - that's not the point. My point is that this method potentially offers those who question the authenticity of their generic hGH with a way to do so. Now it's just an issue of finding someone willing to inject close to 27 units of hGH in one shot.

Anyone who agrees/disagrees with the validity of this methodology, please contribute.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I agree with it. I've posted info from there and that graph on here many times. Who better to get solid data from than the company who produces the product and has spent prob hundreds of millions of dollars on clinical trials.

The problem though isn't with the methodology it's the fact that the bunk ugl GH sellers are well known to put peptides (ghrp) and sell it as GH. Peps depending on dosage can yield results similar or even higher than what we'd expect from GH.

And I'll pin 27iu next time I have blood work done.

[AnabolicDoc]

Thanks for your response.

My question is if peptides can elicit an equal or greater response of plasma GH levels, then in those instances, shouldn't the gains and results be comparable? Does synthetic/recombinant hGH have unique properties not found in endogenous hGH? Why pay all that money for pharm grade GH if you can achieve the same plasma levels with significantly lower costing generics/peptides?

I believe all the vets on this forum who verify the improved efficacy of pharm grade GH. I just don't understand how generics and/or peptides that evoke a similar GH response can be less effective.

[Sgt. Hartman]

I don't understand it nor do I know much about peps but supposedly the gh release from ghrp's don't effect systematic igf-1, at least not to the extent rHGH does.

I think it has something to do with peps having such a short duration of gh release.

And elevated igf-1 is what gives the anabolic effects that's really the whole point in running gh, other than anti-aging, healing, etc.

[AnabolicDoc]

Wouldn't you have expected more ppl to weigh in on this? I can see that to some it's like beating a dead horse, but I still expected more responses.

[Times Roman]

Wouldn't you have expected more ppl to weigh in on this? I can see that to some it's like beating a dead horse, but I still expected more responses.

we have weighed in on it in the past.

I've ran peps for a full year, at about $200/mo - significant for peps, and I really didn't get the warm and fuzzies with the results.

this is what I ran
GHRP-6
CJC-1295

100mcg ea - 3x a day on an "empty" stomach

since I wasn't overjoyed with the results, I moved on.

I tried buying GH, but you really have to know what you are doing:

Cost is high
risk of bogus is high
risk of seizure is high
very fragile, so risk of degredation in transit is low to moderate

So i will wait until a time I have a way to really minimize these risks. But until then.........

[AnabolicDoc]

I agree and I am currently taking sermorelin/ghrp-2 at 100mcg each 3x per day. But I don't think the results are all that disappointing. I think mod-grf (1-29) is the way to go. Its the same thing as CJC 1295 w/o DAC just without the additional lysine amino acid at the end, which is supposed to worsen degradation. Unfortunately confusion arises as many peptide labs call mod grf (1-29) by CJC 1295 w/o DAC.

I've never done pharm grade GH, but I've done generics before counterfeits became rampant but who knows what I was really getting in those kits. At my age, and trying to start a family, I just can't justify the expense of pharm grade GH plus the anti-aging clinic fees, although maybe one of my friends who be willing to write be a script for it if I asked. I checked goodrx.com and 30mg (which equals 81 units at 2.7units=1gm) of Norditropin costs a little over $2,800. Other brands are even more expensive. But if one were to take 2.7units of Norditropin daily that would equal $2,800 per month or roughly $100 daily = $30,000 per year for pharm grade GH is just insane unless you're making 7 figures annually IMO (which I am definitely not making, lol). So I understand the appeal of peptides and generics GH in hopes that you're getting the real stuff. I think the method described in my OP, using the dose response curve for Humatrope, gives some ppl a way of gaining supporting or non-supporting evidence that their generic GH is real.
I just don't understand why, if peptides can elicit the same GH levels, that there wouldn't be a proportionate increase in IGF-1 comparable to pharm grade and why results wouldn't be the same. I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me on this topic could shed some light on this. But I do understand that the topic of generics and peptides and testing GH has been discussed at nauseam here. It's just that I haven't found my specific questions addressed.

[testluva]

I ran Sermorelin/GHRP-6, pharm grade for five months. Did my IGF-1 BW three times. Each time I increased the dosage per my HRT doc. My IGF-1 level went from 126/132/136 increase. It was determine my pituitary glands could only naturally increase by this increments at my age. I was spending $300 per months for those levels. So I decided to switch to HGH (Ukraine Chinese) label. My IGF-1 went up to 275 without fasting which I should have done at the time if BW. My recent IGF-1 is now at 385 with fasting at time of BW. Sermorelin/GHRP-6 worked great for my friend who went from 114 to 196 and he's happy with his physical results. So what I see is not everyone responds well to it like myself. Other do great. You need to verify your results with BW several times or you could be wasting your $$ and not realize it. Now I spend the same amount of $$ and I'm getting the results I expect to. The only crappy thing about my higher IGF-1 levels with HGH is my crazy side effects I'm having to deal with.

[noserider]

Testluva hit it on the head.

My question with peps has always been what if my body is incapable of producing a strong gh pulse. So what good is it for me to pin 3 times a day (not to mention the hassle) if my body can only produce a very weak pulse each time. It then becomes a cost benefit question. I've been on Dat's board a couple of years now and I've used quite a bit of peps. IMO, I believe they work for younger people and/or people with a stronger endocrine system, but at my age gh is much more effective and it's not even close.

[AnabolicDoc]

Testluva and noserider,
Have you used pharm grade HGH? If not, how do you know it's actually GH?

[testluva]

Testluva and noserider,
Have you used pharm grade HGH? If not, how do you know it's actually GH?

I'm not using American Pharm grade HGH due to the cost. I'm using Pharm grade Chinese HGH that I know is not junk. I did multiple GH Serum and IGF-1 BW to monitor my baseline. I get all the text book side effects of HGH and see great results. Read my previous post and you can see I what I'm saying. And if my HGH is fake or of a low grade who gives a crap cause its the end rests that count. "I could have a really great peptide fake HGH" that grows my nails, thickens my hair, tightens my skin, gets rid if my grey hair, improves my BF %, give my CTS and numb hands and fingers all frickin day and make me feel good at age 52. Also makes me look good in a tight TShirt. LMFAO. If you can afford American grade HGH go for it. If not settle for the Chinese pharm grade stuff that your confident is the best you can get.

[AnabolicDoc]

I very much agree - that's what I've been trying to say the whole time. Clearly, my ability to communicate effectively stinks! :-)

[noserider]

Testluva and noserider,
Have you used pharm grade HGH? If not, how do you know it's actually GH?

First saw a bottle of humatrope at work in 1999. Didn't start using for long periods until wintor of 2002/03. Before there were generics, before Jins and Anso, the only options I had were humatrope and nutropin AQ. There were others available but my buddy only carried those two.
When Jins first started showing up everyone was saying the same thing you hear now about generics. Underdosed, too much water retention, run twice as much..etc
I had one pro tell me he wouldn't touch "Chinese shit" as he put it, lol. Now we're all tripping over each other trying to score authentic Jins.
So when I hear people trashing hypes, rips and generics in general I take it all with a grain of salt.
I used those ug labels for several years and up until last year I felt there was some benefit if you stayed with the respectable labs.
Well last year I quit using generics because they weren't passing the most important test. The mirror test. I had to take 6ius to see any difference but most importantly I didn't feel good like I used to when I used pharma grade.
I'm not going to slam all generics and say they're pure garbage. I know people that still use them and they seem to like them.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm too old to be putting stuff in my body when I can't honestly don't know what's in those vials.
If they work for some people great! I however will never use generics again. To each their own.

[ImpeccableChaos]

I don't understand it nor do I know much about peps but supposedly the gh release from ghrp's don't effect systematic igf-1, at least not to the extent rHGH does.

I think it has something to do with peps having such a short duration of gh release.

And elevated igf-1 is what gives the anabolic effects that's really the whole point in running gh, other than anti-aging, healing, etc.

So by that logic wouldn't they have to put ghrp to raise serum levels and igf-1 lr3 or something like it like it to raise igf levels? And wouldn't that be just as expensive to make?

[Granovich]

why numbers are higher when injected IM ?
thats why im doing now !

[AnabolicDoc]

I think the total area under the curve is roughly the same whether you do it IM or subq soh would just stick with subq.