cjc and ghrp with hgh question..

[slimshady01]

So I have been taking 3iu of HGH at night and using the above combo of peps 3 times during the day.

But here is my question.

I have read that taking HGH will raise IGF lvls for 20-30 hours post injection which in turn stops your body from producing pulses of natural growth hormone . Hence the argument why it doesn't matter if you take your HGH at night in fear of losing your natural pulse because it aint going to happen anyway with elevated IGF levels.

So that being the case would my body produce the natural pulse from the cjc1295 NoDac and GHRP6 with these higher IGF levels from the synthetic growth? If not then its a waste to combine both..

[S&S_ShovelHead]

So I have been taking 3iu of HGH at night and using the above combo of peps 3 times during the day.

But here is my question.

I have read that taking HGH will raise IGF lvls for 20-30 hours post injection which in turn stops your body from producing pulses of natural growth hormone. Hence the argument why it doesn't matter if you take your HGH at night in fear of losing your natural pulse because it aint going to happen anyway with elevated IGF levels.

So that being the cause would my body produce the natural pulse from the cjc1295 NoDac and GHRP6 with these higher IGF levels from the synthetic growth? If not then its a waste to combine both..

Links to studies?

Ive read it affects natural GH for 4-6 hrs.

[slimshady01]

I believe Sgt Hartman or Marcus posted this a long time ago I found it in a search. I need to search again and post.. GH serum levels are only supposed to be high around that 4-6 hours and this is why people believed they were in the clear. The study showed that raised IGF levels basically tells the pituitary there is no need to make more GH since IGF is already high.

Ive seen others mimic this on other sites as well.

[slimshady01]

this was taken from Marcus

I'm just doing some research on this and look what Ive found, even after 4 days of exogenous gh your natural gh is still suppressed so if this is true you completely suppress your natrual production while your injecting daily anyway!!

Changes in Non-22-Kilodalton (kDa) Isoforms of Growth Hormone (GH) after Administration of 22-kDa Recombinant Human GH in Trained Adult Males1
Jennifer D. Wallace, Ross C. Cuneo, Martin Bidlingmaier, Per Arne Lundberg, Lena Carlsson, Cesar Luiz Boguszewski, John Hay, Massoud Boroujerdi, Antonio Cittadini, Rolf Dall, Thord Rosén and Christian J. Strasburger

Metabolic Research Unit (J.D.W., R.C.C., J.H.), Department of Medicine, and Statistics Section, Department of Social and Preventative Medicine, University of Queensland, Princess Alexandra Hospital, Brisbane 4102, Australia; Neuroendocrine Unit (M.B., C.J.S.), Department of Medicine, Innenstadt University Hospital, 80336 Munich, Germany; Serviço do Endocrinologia e Metabologia do Hospital de Clínicas da Universidade Federal do Paraná (C.L.B.), 80060-240 Curitiba, Brasil; Research Centre for Endocrinology and Metabolism (P.A.L., L.C., T.R.), Sahlgrenska Hospital, Gothenberg, S-413 45 Sweden; Department of Endocrinology (M.B.), St. Thomas’s Hospital, London SE1 7EH, United Kingdom; Department of Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Sciences (A.C.), Frederico II University, 80131 Naples, Italy; and Department of Medicine M (Endocrinology and Diabetes) (R.D.), Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus, 8000 Denmark

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Jennifer D. Wallace, Metabolic Research Unit, University of Queensland, Department of Medicine, Princess Alexandra Hospital, Brisbane 4102, Australia. E-mail: [email protected].

GH is being used by elite athletes to enhance sporting performance. To examine the hypothesis that exogenous 22-kDa recombinant human GH (rhGH) administration could be detected through suppression of non-22-kDa isoforms of GH, we studied seventeen aerobically trained males (age, 26.9 ± 1.5 yr) randomized to rhGH or placebo treatment (0.15 IU/kg/day for 1 week). Subjects were studied at rest and in response to exercise (cycle -ergometry at 65% of maximal work capacity for 20 min). Serum was assayed for total GH (Pharmacia IRMA and pituitary GH), 22-kDa GH (2 different 2-site monoclonal immunoassays), non-22-kDa GH (22-kDa GH-exclusion assay), 20-kDa GH, and immunofunctional GH. In the study, 3 h after the last dose of rhGH, total and 22-kDa GH concentrations were elevated, reflecting exogenous 22-kDa GH. Non-22-kDa and 20-kDa GH levels were suppressed. Regression of non-22-kDa or 20-kDa GH against total or 22-kDa GH produced clear separation of treatment groups. In identical exercise studies repeated between 24 and 96 h after cessation of treatment, the magnitude of the responses of all GH isoforms was suppressed (P < 0.01), but the relative proportions were similar to those before treatment. We conclude: 1) supraphysiological doses of rhGH in trained adult males suppressed exercise-stimulated endogenous circulating isoforms of GH for up to 4 days; 2) the clearest separation of treatment groups required the simultaneous presence of high exogenous 22-kDa GH and suppressed 20-kDa or non-22-kDa GH concentrations; and 3) these methods may prove useful in detecting rhGH abuse in athletes.
*Anyone wanting a source check from a willing

[S&S_ShovelHead]

this was taken from Marcus

I'm just doing some research on this and look what Ive found, even after 4 days of exogenous gh your natural gh is still suppressed so if this is true you completely suppress your natrual production while your injecting daily anyway!!

Changes in Non-22-Kilodalton (kDa) Isoforms of Growth Hormone (GH) after Administration of 22-kDa Recombinant Human GH in Trained Adult Males1
Jennifer D. Wallace, Ross C. Cuneo, Martin Bidlingmaier, Per Arne Lundberg, Lena Carlsson, Cesar Luiz Boguszewski, John Hay, Massoud Boroujerdi, Antonio Cittadini, Rolf Dall, Thord Rosén and Christian J. Strasburger

Metabolic Research Unit (J.D.W., R.C.C., J.H.), Department of Medicine, and Statistics Section, Department of Social and Preventative Medicine, University of Queensland, Princess Alexandra Hospital, Brisbane 4102, Australia; Neuroendocrine Unit (M.B., C.J.S.), Department of Medicine, Innenstadt University Hospital, 80336 Munich, Germany; Serviço do Endocrinologia e Metabologia do Hospital de Clínicas da Universidade Federal do Paraná (C.L.B.), 80060-240 Curitiba, Brasil; Research Centre for Endocrinology and Metabolism (P.A.L., L.C., T.R.), Sahlgrenska Hospital, Gothenberg, S-413 45 Sweden; Department of Endocrinology (M.B.), St. Thomas’s Hospital, London SE1 7EH, United Kingdom; Department of Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Sciences (A.C.), Frederico II University, 80131 Naples, Italy; and Department of Medicine M (Endocrinology and Diabetes) (R.D.), Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus, 8000 Denmark

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Jennifer D. Wallace, Metabolic Research Unit, University of Queensland, Department of Medicine, Princess Alexandra Hospital, Brisbane 4102, Australia. E-mail: [email protected].

GH is being used by elite athletes to enhance sporting performance. To examine the hypothesis that exogenous 22-kDa recombinant human GH (rhGH) administration could be detected through suppression of non-22-kDa isoforms of GH, we studied seventeen aerobically trained males (age, 26.9 ± 1.5 yr) randomized to rhGH or placebo treatment (0.15 IU/kg/day for 1 week). Subjects were studied at rest and in response to exercise (cycle -ergometry at 65% of maximal work capacity for 20 min). Serum was assayed for total GH (Pharmacia IRMA and pituitary GH), 22-kDa GH (2 different 2-site monoclonal immunoassays), non-22-kDa GH (22-kDa GH-exclusion assay), 20-kDa GH, and immunofunctional GH. In the study, 3 h after the last dose of rhGH, total and 22-kDa GH concentrations were elevated, reflecting exogenous 22-kDa GH. Non-22-kDa and 20-kDa GH levels were suppressed. Regression of non-22-kDa or 20-kDa GH against total or 22-kDa GH produced clear separation of treatment groups. In identical exercise studies repeated between 24 and 96 h after cessation of treatment, the magnitude of the responses of all GH isoforms was suppressed (P < 0.01), but the relative proportions were similar to those before treatment. We conclude: 1) supraphysiological doses of rhGH in trained adult males suppressed exercise-stimulated endogenous circulating isoforms of GH for up to 4 days; 2) the clearest separation of treatment groups required the simultaneous presence of high exogenous 22-kDa GH and suppressed 20-kDa or non-22-kDa GH concentrations; and 3) these methods may prove useful in detecting rhGH abuse in athletes.
*Anyone wanting a source check from a willing

Ive read that before. Whats your take on the bold?

Also you should read this...

Abstract


Endogenous pulsatile GH secretion is blunted by the administration of exogenous GH; however, few data are available on the time course of GH negative feedback, and the mechanism by which this occurs still remains unclear. In the present study, we examined the temporal pattern of the inhibitory effect induced by an acute (single) and chronic (5 days) sc recombinant human (rh) GH injection regimen on spontaneous GH release in the rat and assessed the possible involvement of the hypothalamic GH-inhibitory peptide, somatostatin (SRIF), in this response. Eight-hour (0800-1600 h) GH secretory profiles, obtained from free-moving adult male rats administered a single sc injection of 200 micrograms rhGH at 0800 h, revealed a marked suppression of spontaneous GH pulses (GH peak amplitude: 45.7 +/- 10.9 vs. 207.8 +/- 31.7 ng/ml in H2O-injected control rats; P less than 0.001) lasting for up to 4.1 +/- 0.1 h after the injection (mean 4-h plasma GH level: 13.6 +/- 3.6 vs. 49.4 +/- 7.0 ng/ml in H2O-injected controls; P less than 0.01). During the subsequent 4- to 8-h period, recovery of spontaneous GH secretory bursts was evident, and neither the GH peak amplitude nor mean 4-h plasma GH level of rhGH-treated rats was significantly different from that of H2O-injected controls. The magnitude, time course, and recovery of the rhGH-induced inhibitory effect on pulsatile GH release after chronic rhGH treatment was similar to that after a single injection. Passive immunization of rhGH-treated rats with SRIF antiserum reversed the rhGH-induced inhibition of spontaneous GH pulses (peak amplitude: 131.7 +/- 53.7 vs. 7.1 +/- 3.4 ng/ml in rhGH-treated control rats given normal sheep serum; P less than 0.05) and restored both the GH peak amplitude and mean plasma GH level to values similar to those in H2O-injected controls. Taken together, these results demonstrate that: 1) the inhibitory effect of rhGH on endogenous pulsatile GH release is of short duration (approximately 4 h); 2) the time course of this response does not change after 5-day repeated rhGH administration; and 3) the feedback effect of GH on its own spontaneous release is exerted, at least in part, by increasing hypothalamic SRIF secretion. Such a mechanism of GH feedback may be important in the physiological control of pulsatile GH secretion.


Im on GH aswell and take mod grf & ghrp on my 2 off days and in then evening sometimes (pin GH in the morning) but you could probably also take the peps 20 minutes before your GH shot if you wanted.

[slimshady01]

I used to take in morn with peps 20 min Before but felt sluggish all day.. Now I take at night but may switch around , not sure

[slimshady01]

Maybe Marcus or Sgt H will chime in.

[M302_Imola]

The key here is how much HGH you're using. At 3iu you're def. not raising your igf levels for some 20-30 hours post injection. At 3iu I would expect your GH levels to be raised for no more than 8 hours and igf levels as well. Now when you get into using large amounts of GH (8+iu's) then you get a systemic increase in igf levels that could last 20-30 hours. So with 3iu you're good to go with your approach. So pin the peps (GHRP/GHRH) and then 10 mins later pin your 3iu HGH and you're good to go your endogenous GH pulses should not be effected.

[slimshady01]

Ive upped to 4iu but still shouldn't matter from what I read.

Imola are you saying morning or night?

[largerthannormal]

i was under the impression after prolonged use( a few weeks) of either IGF levels would remain constantly elevated despite injection time? with GH or GHRPs

and no

the GHRH still induces a natural pulse. or so Ive always ben told. I believe your still forcing it on from what Ive all read

[largerthannormal]

OK got it!!

The key here is how much HGH you're using. At 3iu you're def. not raising your igf levels for some 20-30 hours post injection. At 3iu I would expect your GH levels to be raised for no more than 8 hours and igf levels as well. Now when you get into using large amounts of GH (8+iu's) then you get a systemic increase in igf levels that could last 20-30 hours. So with 3iu you're good to go with your approach. So pin the peps (GHRP/GHRH) and then 10 mins later pin your 3iu HGH and you're good to go your endogenous GH pulses should not be effected.

[Granovich]

thats why now i got to 6 IU i started to do GH in middle of night around 3 am ( 4 hrs after sleeping ) and upon waking up
peps i take 100 mcg of each post wkrout and before bed and if i workout late and sleep right after then pre workout and before bed... not sure if tha would make a difference. but seems like best way to run both since im running high dose of HGH and i will go up higher

[slimshady01]

thats why now i got to 6 IU i started to do GH in middle of night around 3 am ( 4 hrs after sleeping ) and upon waking up
peps i take 100 mcg of each post wkrout and before bed and if i workout late and sleep right after then pre workout and before bed... not sure if tha would make a difference. but seems like best way to run both since im running high dose of HGH and i will go up higher

How you feel gran?? How's low carb

[M302_Imola]

Ive upped to 4iu but still shouldn't matter from what I read.

Imola are you saying morning or night?

Personally I would pin the HGH in the morning 10 mins after peps and then run peps solo pwo and before bed. I've used this approach and felt it was effective.

[Perseverance1]

So what happens if I pin 100mcg IGF-1 lr3 with 200/200 ghrp/cjc? The latter being 4x daily?