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Thread: T3 and t4 comobined with HGH

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    T3 and t4 comobined with HGH

    Hey didn't want to hijack the other guys thread I posted this in so I figured I would start my own.

    Anyway im on 4iu of growth 6 days on 1 off "yet I keep changing" Think im going to keep pinning first thing in AM.

    My question is would 100mcg of t4 and 25mcg of t3 be beneficial for fatloss. Im cutting now and want to optimize all I can. I am running the T4 based on peoples thoughts with GH yet others say there is no need unless you are low already. That's why I wanted to add t3 in the mix, I normally run a low dose of 25-37.5 a day during cuts.
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    It's pretty well documented that gh suppresses thyroid function.

    Having run gh with and without t4 I wouldn't run it without again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman
    It's pretty well documented that gh suppresses thyroid function.

    Having run gh with and without t4 I wouldn't run it without again.
    Reading the other post ill leave the t3 out and keep t4 at 100mcg..

    Do you Guys run t4 at night or morning.. There is a study that shows better absorption at night..my problem is I eat right before bed... But taking in the morning I can't drink coffee , that's a killer!

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    I was running GH with 100mcg T4, T4 taken in the morning with protein only (15 minutes before my protein)... No problem with absorption or anything... If I drank coffee, I did at work maybe 30mins after morning supplements... But I don't think meal in the evening would mess up T4.. And there is still a way to take T4 about 30 mins before your last pre-bed meal... by this time you should have empty stomach after previous meal and T4 would be absorbed within 30 mins for sure...

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    I take both my T4 and HGH as soon as I get up in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    I take both my T4 and HGH as soon as I get up in the morning.
    Me too!

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    My wife and son both take T4 for legit thyroid issues but one doctor has my son taking it before bed mixed with a tspn. of applesauce and the other doctor has my wife taking it first thing in the a.m.

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    i have it by my bed so when i get up during the night ,at whatever time , i take it then

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    Quote Originally Posted by swithuk
    i have it by my bed so when i get up during the night ,at whatever time , i take it then
    I'm doing the same , waking up At 4am to piss then I take t4 Coffee at 6!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    I'm doing the same , waking up At 4am to piss then I take t4 Coffee at 6!!
    I'm going to ask a dumb question and that is: what effect does coffee have on T4? Thanks Bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown

    I'm going to ask a dumb question and that is: what effect does coffee have on T4? Thanks Bro.
    Coffee messes with the absorption so you aren't supposed to take close to t4..

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    Hey didn't want to hijack the other guys thread I posted this in so I figured I would start my own.

    Anyway im on 4iu of growth 6 days on 1 off "yet I keep changing" Think im going to keep pinning first thing in AM.

    My question is would 100mcg of t4 and 25mcg of t3 be beneficial for fatloss. Im cutting now and want to optimize all I can. I am running the T4 based on peoples thoughts with GH yet others say there is no need unless you are low already. That's why I wanted to add t3 in the mix, I normally run a low dose of 25-37.5 a day during cuts.
    If you're going to run thyroid with gh then yes use both T3/T4....Don't just use one or the other...

    And your dose you posted is PERFECT....Most will see the best results running the T4 at a 4 to 1 ratio...Which you have perfect there...T4 at 100 mcg and T3 at 25 mcg......
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    Quote Originally Posted by calstate23

    If you're going to run thyroid with gh then yes use both T3/T4....Don't just use one or the other...

    And your dose you posted is PERFECT....Most will see the best results running the T4 at a 4 to 1 ratio...Which you have perfect there...T4 at 100 mcg and T3 at 25 mcg......
    Thanks for the reply!

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    Quote Originally Posted by calstate23 View Post
    If you're going to run thyroid with gh then yes use both T3/T4....Don't just use one or the other...

    And your dose you posted is PERFECT....Most will see the best results running the T4 at a 4 to 1 ratio...Which you have perfect there...T4 at 100 mcg and T3 at 25 mcg......
    I don't really understand how you can feel so comfortable making such a blanket statement. Is this a protocol you've followed in the past with success? Any bloodwork to prove it? Bottom line is everyone is different and peoples' thryoid's react differently...tough to know what works or where you're deficient without bloodwork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M302_Imola

    I don't really understand how you can feel so comfortable making such a blanket statement. Is this a protocol you've followed in the past with success? Any bloodwork to prove it? Bottom line is everyone is different and peoples' thryoid's react differently...tough to know what works or where you're deficient without bloodwork.
    What's your take on that imola?
    I've seen a t4 t3 combo works better together then t4 alone but then again this was for people that were hypo..

    I just want t3 in there for extra fat burn.. T4 will help in regards to the gh but how much so with fatloss vs t3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    I just want t3 in there for extra fat burn.. T4 will help in regards to the gh but how much so with fatloss vs t3?
    You clearly don't understand the process and the reason WHY T4 helps to the GH... The GH wil CHANGE the T4 into T3... and exactly THE PROCESS of thyroid activation (making t3 out of t4) is the thing which is helping GH (well very simply said)...

    So.. There are three possibilities:

    T4+GH: T4 will be activated, T3 will be produced.. result: Better use of GH, higher T3 levels which means fat burn (this is answer to your question..) and more consistent T3 and T4 levels which means homeostasis maintained (at least up to certain acceptable point when injecting hormones)

    GH alone: GH would rise T3 levels which means negative feedback, T4 levels are lower that they should be to persist T4 to T3 ratio which means homeostasis broken.. GH potential not fully used, T4 to T3 conversion lowered because of lacking T4 amounts

    T3+GH: negative feedback from T3, T4 levels very much lowered, T4 to T3 conversion stopped or very low... waste of money...

    So guess what option is the best one? I would say if you wanna use GH for fatloss, use it with T4 or save your money and buy clenbuterol or ECA combo... or just clean your diet and add more cardio LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    What's your take on that imola?
    I've seen a t4 t3 combo works better together then t4 alone but then again this was for people that were hypo..
    And this is very easy to explain as well.. and has nothing to do with hypo

    Body (without GH present) would convert (activate) only specific amount of t4 needed at the time. So you can eat pound of t4 a day, your t3 levels wont rise beyond certain level... And t3 is the active thyroid hormone which is responsible for fatloss...

    Only difference when GH is present is that much more T4 will be converted (well it is the thing GH does) so the T3 levels will be much higher, so fatloss will be much better..

    Now lets take a look to T3 + T4 combo... Of course this statement I an writing is dose dependent... Because if you take t3+t4 without GH I would say you are wasting T4... because again.. body will produce T3 out of T4 only until it detects that levels are high enough... So if you are supplementing T3 itself... levels are high enough all the time, so conversion is NOT NEEDED!

    And again... taking GH+T3+T4... as described above... if levels of T3 are high enough none of T4 would be activated... Only difference is that with GH present, the "high enough" means a lot higher than without GH present... So there is a possibility that SOME of T4 will be activated even if active T3 is supplemented. BUT! WHY would I want to do this? I can take just T4 alone, GH would take care about activation and T3 levels will rise WITHOUT supplementing T3 to the SAME LEVEL! Only difference will be that MUCH MORE CONVERSION will take place and guess what...? GH BENEFITS FROM IT! So... I have high T3 levels and better GH usability with GH and T4 ONLY!

    Of course if someone is taking more T3 than levels required even with GH... he will get better results in terms of fat burn that GH+T4... but it might be getting a little rough for the thyroid gland and I don't see any reason why somebody would want to ruin it...
    Last edited by briansvk; 05-21-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by briansvk

    You clearly don't understand the process and the reason WHY T4 helps to the GH... The GH wil CHANGE the T4 into T3... and exactly THE PROCESS of thyroid activation (making t3 out of t4) is the thing which is helping GH (well very simply said)...

    So.. There are three possibilities:

    T4+GH: T4 will be activated, T3 will be produced.. result: Better use of GH, higher T3 levels which means fat burn (this is answer to your question..) and more consistent T3 and T4 levels which means homeostasis maintained (at least up to certain acceptable point when injecting hormones)

    GH alone: GH would rise T3 levels which means negative feedback, T4 levels are lower that they should be to persist T4 to T3 ratio which means homeostasis broken.. GH potential not fully used, T4 to T3 conversion lowered because of lacking T4 amounts

    T3+GH: negative feedback from T3, T4 levels very much lowered, T4 to T3 conversion stopped or very low... waste of money...

    So guess what option is the best one? I would say if you wanna use GH for fatloss, use it with T4 or save your money and buy clenbuterol or ECA combo... or just clean your diet and add more cardio LOL
    Thanks bud for the chime in. I came off eca a month ago.. Giving my body a break from most stims, I even cut my coffee to half decaf.. To many stims seem to be counter productive and raise cortisol to high. I'm actually losing more weight now then when I was on ec.. Clen makes me feel like ass so I'm stating away from that ..t4 and gh is where I'll keep it .. Diet is always on point year round as well as cardio..

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    Coffee messes with the absorption so you aren't supposed to take close to t4..
    Thanks bro. I am going to start taking it when I take a leak at night. Tough to time everything just right!!!

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    Hmmm after reading all the GH+T4 posts I think I'm going to pay a visit to my local test lab tomorrow morning for some thyroid blood work. After 3 months of pharm grade GH and amazing fat burning results, I hit the wall, fat burning had stopped, and I'm also having weird digestive problems aka IBS symptoms. Could it be thyroid hormone imbalance ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by M302_Imola View Post
    I don't really understand how you can feel so comfortable making such a blanket statement. Is this a protocol you've followed in the past with success? Any bloodwork to prove it? Bottom line is everyone is different and peoples' thryoid's react differently...tough to know what works or where you're deficient without bloodwork.
    Yeah everyone is different, that is why I said most see the best results...I didn't say everyone....From me to others have seen best with T3/T4 and T4 run higher then T3 dose...

    In the end it is T3 which is the active hormone and the main problem taking T3 by itself is that you will slow down T4 production...

    And having high T4 doesn't really mean much because it is all about the conversion process...Some may not be converting it to T3 or they may HIGH reverse t3 which does nothing...Which is why taking just T4 most likely work as well because it's all about converting it to T3...

    And if you're running a T4 by itself MOST LIKELY it won't be converting a lot of it to active T3....The body will most likely start converting more of it to Reverse T3...And since reverse T3 does absolutely nothing you most likely just end up with lower T3....And without active T3 you aren't going to see much benefit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by briansvk View Post
    You clearly don't understand the process and the reason WHY T4 helps to the GH... The GH wil CHANGE the T4 into T3... and exactly THE PROCESS of thyroid activation (making t3 out of t4) is the thing which is helping GH (well very simply said)...

    So.. There are three possibilities:

    T4+GH: T4 will be activated, T3 will be produced.. result: Better use of GH, higher T3 levels which means fat burn (this is answer to your question..) and more consistent T3 and T4 levels which means homeostasis maintained (at least up to certain acceptable point when injecting hormones)

    GH alone: GH would rise T3 levels which means negative feedback, T4 levels are lower that they should be to persist T4 to T3 ratio which means homeostasis broken.. GH potential not fully used, T4 to T3 conversion lowered because of lacking T4 amounts

    T3+GH: negative feedback from T3, T4 levels very much lowered, T4 to T3 conversion stopped or very low... waste of money...

    So guess what option is the best one? I would say if you wanna use GH for fatloss, use it with T4 or save your money and buy clenbuterol or ECA combo... or just clean your diet and add more cardio LOL




    And this is very easy to explain as well.. and has nothing to do with hypo

    Body (without GH present) would convert (activate) only specific amount of t4 needed at the time. So you can eat pound of t4 a day, your t3 levels wont rise beyond certain level... And t3 is the active thyroid hormone which is responsible for fatloss...

    Only difference when GH is present is that much more T4 will be converted (well it is the thing GH does) so the T3 levels will be much higher, so fatloss will be much better..

    Now lets take a look to T3 + T4 combo... Of course this statement I an writing is dose dependent... Because if you take t3+t4 without GH I would say you are wasting T4... because again.. body will produce T3 out of T4 only until it detects that levels are high enough... So if you are supplementing T3 itself... levels are high enough all the time, so conversion is NOT NEEDED!

    And again... taking GH+T3+T4... as described above... if levels of T3 are high enough none of T4 would be activated... Only difference is that with GH present, the "high enough" means a lot higher than without GH present... So there is a possibility that SOME of T4 will be activated even if active T3 is supplemented. BUT! WHY would I want to do this? I can take just T4 alone, GH would take care about activation and T3 levels will rise WITHOUT supplementing T3 to the SAME LEVEL! Only difference will be that MUCH MORE CONVERSION will take place and guess what...? GH BENEFITS FROM IT! So... I have high T3 levels and better GH usability with GH and T4 ONLY!

    Of course if someone is taking more T3 than levels required even with GH... he will get better results in terms of fat burn that GH+T4... but it might be getting a little rough for the thyroid gland and I don't see any reason why somebody would want to ruin it...
    It must be nice to have such a complete understanding of an issue that has more complexities and variables than you can fathom and that some of the sharpest minds who've been studying it their entire careers don't have such a complete grasp of. It's like reducing a logarithm problem to basic addition so you can begin to understand it.

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    I have seen studies where doctors were getting better results adding t3 to their t4 regime for patients... Now I'm sure they weren't on growth.

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    Exactly, everyone converts T4 to T3 at different rates, some people with thyroid problems don't convert or minimally convert T4 to T3 which is why some of the most popular thyroid meds are drugs like Armour which are a combination of both. Taking T3 doesn't necessarily mean that the T4 conversion will stop....nor does taking GH cause an unlimited conversion of T4 to T3.

    I'd take T4 at the appropriate dose and add T3 on top of that for increased fat loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman
    Exactly, everyone converts T4 to T3 at different rates, some people with thyroid problems don't convert or minimally convert T4 to T3 which is why some of the most popular thyroid meds are drugs like Armour which are a combination of both. Taking T3 doesn't necessarily mean that the T4 conversion will stop....nor does taking GH cause an unlimited conversion of T4 to T3.

    I'd take T4 at the appropriate dose and add T3 on top of that for increased fat loss.
    Is 100t4 with 25mcg sufficient I don't like going very high on t3 , I would go 37.5.. But this whole t4 t3 hgh thing has me..

    I feel t3 would be beneficial , I'm on low test and 100mg of var.. This var I'm on is amazing , I've gone as low as 1800 calories with 45 min of low cardio last 2 weeks and I'm up a few lbs lol...

    I'm very anabolic and not thinking ill lose any muscle on 37.5 mcg of added t3..

    Thoughts

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    If you do supplement with both T4 and T3 then 100mcg T4 + 25mcg T3 should do the trick...I wouldn't want to go above these dosages...especially the T3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    Is 100t4 with 25mcg sufficient I don't like going very high on t3 , I would go 37.5.. But this whole t4 t3 hgh thing has me..

    I feel t3 would be beneficial , I'm on low test and 100mg of var.. This var I'm on is amazing , I've gone as low as 1800 calories with 45 min of low cardio last 2 weeks and I'm up a few lbs lol...

    I'm very anabolic and not thinking ill lose any muscle on 37.5 mcg of added t3..

    Thoughts
    Definitely a great place to start....And as we all know, in the world of bodybuilding and how everyones body reacts to hormones and foods there is only one way to find out...By doing it...

    And T4 at 100 and T3 at 25 isn't some crazy dose that is experimental...It's pretty basic...Good place to start for sure..
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    thanks guys ill keep you up to date... going 100 and 25..

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady01 View Post
    thanks guys ill keep you up to date... going 100 and 25..
    yes please do!

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    I have T4 tabs 75 mcg's. Would it be better to take 75 or 150 mcg's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Titan99 View Post
    I have T4 tabs 75 mcg's. Would it be better to take 75 or 150 mcg's?
    start with the 75mcg and go from there...most don't need over 100mcg's of T4.

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    75mcg should be just fine, maybe I would try 150 if more than 8iu GH/week is used along with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by briansvk View Post
    75mcg should be just fine, maybe I would try 150 if more than 8iu GH/week is used along with it.
    do you mean 8i.u a day ?

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    Is it dependent on how much GH your taking? I'm taking 7 i.u.'s a day. How would you know if you need more or for that matter if your taking too much?

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    yeah thats what i want to know . im on 5-7i.u e.d

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Titan99
    Is it dependent on how much GH your taking? I'm taking 7 i.u.'s a day. How would you know if you need more or for that matter if your taking too much?
    Blood work ,I've seen many posts of people on growth that had perfect thyroid levels on higher amounts of gh..

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    Quote Originally Posted by swithuk View Post
    do you mean 8i.u a day ?
    Yeah a day of course

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Titan99 View Post
    Is it dependent on how much GH your taking? I'm taking 7 i.u.'s a day. How would you know if you need more or for that matter if your taking too much?
    Blood work is the most precise way of course.. Or you can just try to take up the dosage and see if fat burning effects gets any better... Thanks to GH body will produce t3 from t4 in much higher rate than it normally would.. So if you add more t4 2 things may happen.. Your body will use it to produce more t3 therefore fat burning effects will get better - so your previous dose was too low, or nothing happens and the t4 will be just floating in the blood in excessive amounts, because body cant use it to produce more t3 even with GH.. which means previous dosage was just fine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by briansvk View Post
    Blood work is the most precise way of course.. Or you can just try to take up the dosage and see if fat burning effects gets any better... Thanks to GH body will produce t3 from t4 in much higher rate than it normally would.. So if you add more t4 2 things may happen.. Your body will use it to produce more t3 therefore fat burning effects will get better - so your previous dose was too low, or nothing happens and the t4 will be just floating in the blood in excessive amounts, because body cant use it to produce more t3 even with GH.. which means previous dosage was just fine...
    Reading this my first inclination is to go with 150 mcg just because the stuff is unreasonably cheap, but I think I'll run it at 75 mcg and get bloodwork done in a week. I want to check my E2 also so I'll just get T3, T4 tested as well. I'm bulking anyway so it's not urgent that I cut BF much more at this point. Thanks.

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    Sounds good. Let us know! I was taking 100mcg with 10iu/day.

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