More generic HGH debate

[NWIron]

I have one question for everyone that is a valid argument in favor of SOME generic GH. Most people will say that the Chinese will put peptides or IGF in their "gh" to fool western consumers and their blood tests. Here is my question:

What peptide can force the human pituitary to squeeze out enough somatropin to warrant a >30 serum GH and a >4-500 IGF level ?!

Some may be 192aa, quality control is sketchy, etc (I know all this). Someone please tell me what "peptide" these guys are putting in because whatever it is, it's better than anything I have seen.

NW

[ScotchGuard02]

I've been on generics for almost six years straight. Well, I did use some pharma in there intermittently. I've had a few blood tests in the last six years to check my HPTA and my IGF numbers were always good. I'm no chemist and as long as the IGF numbers look good and I feel great, that's good enough for me.

[largerthannormal]

GHRP / GHRH ( depending on time of draw) could yield high values for both.

I have one question for everyone that is a valid argument in favor of SOME generic GH. Most people will say that the Chinese will put peptides or IGF in their "gh" to fool western consumers and their blood tests. Here is my question:

What peptide can force the human pituitary to squeeze out enough somatropin to warrant a >30 serum GH and a >4-500 IGF level ?!

Some may be 192aa, quality control is sketchy, etc (I know all this). Someone please tell me what "peptide" these guys are putting in because whatever it is, it's better than anything I have seen.

NW

[NWIron]

GHRP / GHRH ( depending on time of draw) could yield high values for both.

Show me one blood test to show that combo can produce above 30 GH serum….

I can provide a few showing <15 but never higher and usually <10.

NW

[Hephens]

I've been on generics for almost six years straight. Well, I did use some pharma in there intermittently. I've had a few blood tests in the last six years to check my HPTA and my IGF numbers were always good. I'm no chemist and as long as the IGF numbers look good and I feel great, that's good enough for me.

Agree there

[marcus300]

Check out the concerns thread there are reports in there what show they put peps and other chemicals in their generics.

I'd never use them again even if they were free. If your happy you carry on.

[NWIron]

Marcus. You have said that a million times. I have read the thread and there is NO proof other than what you and a few other high ranking board members theorize. Show me ONE blood test from a peptide that has GH serum over 30….hell even over 20. Show me. If you don't have it, or can't find it, than I think it is safe to say that your constant statement "all chinese GH is anti-duretics, igf, or peptides" is a theory at best. And a non scientific theory as well.

[marcus300]

Marcus. You have said that a million times. I have read the thread and there is NO proof other than what you and a few other high ranking board members theorize. Show me ONE blood test from a peptide that has GH serum over 30….hell even over 20. Show me. If you don't have it, or can't find it, than I think it is safe to say that your constant statement "all chinese GH is anti-duretics, igf, or peptides" is a theory at best. And a non scientific theory as well.

You mustn't of looked hard enough because there are members in there with blood work showing high pep results and I also think one was a staff members. If you read the concerns thread you will see it all develop and if you cant or wont accept that there is something going on with the Chinese generic market than that's fine. I wouldn't expect anything else from you seeing that you haven't used hgh for that long, never used pharm grade and your only 27 yrs old. I was very similar to you and wouldn't accept it until one huge source over in China who I use to buy from offered me clear vials and any boxes or labels for any kind of hgh I wanted and also told me they are putting chemicals in to mimic gh sides, at the time I was purchasing around 10k ius per month. I also have used pharm grade at a high dose for many years and if you experience what real gh can do to you, you will know exactly what generic Chinese gh is and that's total garbage it really is, I know guys including myself who have been involved with hgh for over 20 years and if you sat there screaming at them asking for scientific proof they would probably laugh at you and walk away, there is proof out there it is in the Chinese concerns thread and also when you have a number of professional BB's and also long term gh users telling you that generics are nothing like pharm grade gh I would listen.

If people are happy with their generics fine carry on using them but you will change your mind one day, you will understand what they are capable of doing in time but I am not going over old ground because everything your debating about has been already done in the Chinese concerns thread so go there and do some reading, it will probably take you a few weeks to read it all and understand what evolves out of that thread. But I will state again if your happy you carry on buying and using them and I will carry on stating my opinion but truthfully I am not interested one bit if you do carry on or not, that's up to you, but best of luck

[krugerr]

The problem with Pharmaceutical grade GH is getting hold of the bloody stuff!!

I've multiple sources and all can offer real cheap generics, none can get real pharm stuff! Personally, I'll wait til I find a genuine reliable source for the decent stuff.
I trust my source believes it when he says the genetics are good, I just don't trust the guy in china making it

[jimmyinkedup]

Whats left to debate??? This should be put to rest if you give one damn about what you are injecting into your body. In my mind there is no "debate"...carry on.

[NWIron]

Marcus, lol, I'm not on GH. Still waiting to see which peptide can put you in those levels. I don't trust Chinese either and in the thread that you often refer to as "hgh gospel", there is no proof that "all Chinese GH is bunk." Or peptides, or whatever you keep saying over and over. I'm 100% certain the you are right….pharm grade is a million times better. But to say ALL chinese GH is peptides or albumin with no science to back is just retarded.

[marcus300]

Marcus, lol, I'm not on GH. Still waiting to see which peptide can put you in those levels. I don't trust Chinese either and in the thread that you often refer to as "hgh gospel", there is no proof that "all Chinese GH is bunk." Or peptides, or whatever you keep saying over and over. I'm 100% certain the you are right….pharm grade is a million times better. But to say ALL chinese GH is peptides or albumin with no science to back is just retarded.

Its not gospel its just got a wealth of knowledge from real bodybuilders who have used hgh for many years something what you are not and have never done lol. You also like to put words in my mouth to stop you looking stupid but your doing just fine at that one...I think I will leave you to your studies and try not to read your stupid posts again.

Thanks for agreeing though lmfao

best of luck

[Sgt. Hartman]

What is there to debate? That generic GH is real GH?

It's not real GH so who cares what combination of shit is actually in it, I'll never run it again.

[largerthannormal]

I could show you but I cant because it is not my information to share, do a little google work is my recomendation...( that probably sounds like a shit excuse but i have a good reason) and like marcus said there are a few on here as well, Imola could help on this, that may be who he is refering too as well.

not to mention peptide mfg vary greatly on quality. nothing the lil china men couldnt spend a few more pennies on to ensure that.

Show me one blood test to show that combo can produce above 30 GH serum….

I can provide a few showing <15 but never higher and usually <10.

NW

[Sgt. Hartman]

Preserved growth hormone (GH) secretion in aged and very old subjects after testing with the combined stimulus GH-releasing hormone plus GH-releasing hexapeptide-6.

Micic D, Popovic V, Doknic M, Macut D, Dieguez C, Casanueva FF.
Source
Institute of Endocrinology, University Clinical Centre, Belgrade, Yugoslavia.
Abstract
Either spontaneous or pharmacological stimulated GH secretion is reduced with advanced age. This observation is an added difficulty for the biochemical diagnosis of GH deficiency in adults. Furthermore, the combined administration of saturating doses of GH-releasing hormone (GHRH) plus GH-releasing hexapeptide (GHRP)-6 is nowadays the most effective GH-releasing stimulus tested in a variety of settings related to altered somatotroph function. To understand whether the GH discharge elicited by the combined stimulus declines with age, 26 normal subjects of both sexes, divided into 3 age groups [adults 19-40 yr; aged 46-65 yr; and very old (75-96 yr) subjects] were studied. They were administered i.v., as bolus and in combination, 90 micrograms GHRH plus 90 micrograms GHRP-6. In the three groups, the combined administration of GHRH plus GHRP-6 elicited a GH area under the curve (microgram/L per 120 min) of 3,127 +/- 262, 3,409 +/- 573, and 4,655 +/- 737 for adults, aged, and very old subjects, respectively (nonsignificant differences). The mean GH peak was 47.5 +/- 4.5 micrograms/L for adults, 52.9 +/- 8.4 micrograms/L for aged subjects, and 76.0 +/- 11.7 for very old subjects (nonsignificant differences). Individually examined, there were no nonresponders to the combined stimulus, and all subjects (independently of age) showed a GH peak over 25 micrograms/L (the lowest peak was 27.3 micrograms/L, and the highest peak was 119.2 micrograms/L). In conclusion, the GHRH plus GHRP-6-induced GH release is well preserved in aged and very old subjects, which suggests that the GH secretory capability of the combined test is not reduced by age. This combined test may be useful for the diagnosis of GH-deficient states in adults.





End of "debate" lol.

[marcus300]

Preserved growth hormone (GH) secretion in aged and very old subjects after testing with the combined stimulus GH-releasing hormone plus GH-releasing hexapeptide-6.

Micic D, Popovic V, Doknic M, Macut D, Dieguez C, Casanueva FF.
Source
Institute of Endocrinology, University Clinical Centre, Belgrade, Yugoslavia.
Abstract
Either spontaneous or pharmacological stimulated GH secretion is reduced with advanced age. This observation is an added difficulty for the biochemical diagnosis of GH deficiency in adults. Furthermore, the combined administration of saturating doses of GH-releasing hormone (GHRH) plus GH-releasing hexapeptide (GHRP)-6 is nowadays the most effective GH-releasing stimulus tested in a variety of settings related to altered somatotroph function. To understand whether the GH discharge elicited by the combined stimulus declines with age, 26 normal subjects of both sexes, divided into 3 age groups [adults 19-40 yr; aged 46-65 yr; and very old (75-96 yr) subjects] were studied. They were administered i.v., as bolus and in combination, 90 micrograms GHRH plus 90 micrograms GHRP-6. In the three groups, the combined administration of GHRH plus GHRP-6 elicited a GH area under the curve (microgram/L per 120 min) of 3,127 +/- 262, 3,409 +/- 573, and 4,655 +/- 737 for adults, aged, and very old subjects, respectively (nonsignificant differences). The mean GH peak was 47.5 +/- 4.5 micrograms/L for adults, 52.9 +/- 8.4 micrograms/L for aged subjects, and 76.0 +/- 11.7 for very old subjects (nonsignificant differences). Individually examined, there were no nonresponders to the combined stimulus, and all subjects (independently of age) showed a GH peak over 25 micrograms/L (the lowest peak was 27.3 micrograms/L, and the highest peak was 119.2 micrograms/L). In conclusion, the GHRH plus GHRP-6-induced GH release is well preserved in aged and very old subjects, which suggests that the GH secretory capability of the combined test is not reduced by age. This combined test may be useful for the diagnosis of GH-deficient states in adults.





End of "debate" lol.

Lmfao lol

Kids hey Sgt

[Sgt. Hartman]

OP must be getting generic peps from china that's why his GH serum numbers are so low

[NWIron]

Great post! Thank you! I will point out the flaw here, however. First of all, the test is not statistically significant (they say this twice in the study lol), which devalues the results from the start. The BW on most Chinese HGH is 3-3.5 hours post injection. I do not know any GHRP/GHRH combo that would lift serum levels that high for over 2 hours. In fact, most of the "good" GH tests show a delayed bell shaped curve as they go in, say 2hrs post injection, the results are lower than 3 hours post injection. This is not how GHRP/GHRH's behave. As shown in your graph, as soon as the GHRH is injected, the brain spits out somatropin. This does not explain the current BW results people are getting from "legit" generic GH from China. In fact, this is more proof against the peptide theory. The only way I could see the Chinese pulling this off is if the were using a LOOONG acting GHRH such as cjc/ with DAC and some sort of unknown GHRP that amplifies GH for 3.5+ hours (which doesn't exist as far as I know). GHRPs give short spikes in GH, which is why doses are needed every few hours. Also, I question this test from the beginning because there were only 26 people in the study and "the mean GH peak was 47.5 which means that it WAS NOT 3 equal groups and in fact was around 80-90% ages 19-40. This test is a statistics nightmare and it is not hard to see that it is questionable. Also, I know guys that get US Pharm grade peptides synthesized and aren't getting anywhere close to those numbers. In fact, many times they are taking doses 2-3xs the amount of the study shown. Also, older guys having a better functioning pituitary I can not explain. I find that very interesting but also very suspicious and possibly misleading. That being said, thanks for the study. I do find that surprising as I have never seen peptide levels peak GH like that. I wonder what GHRH was used….?

[Jacked666]

Hey Marcus, thanks for the incredible info, however it seems that purity source labs blue tops hgh is the real deal but its just underdosed which is fine because you will have to take more of it, any truth to this? Or are you saying that every chinese hgh is crap and it is not underdosed. Thanks again you have stopped me from buying hgh all together I will fly to a different country and get the real deal from a doc one day

[Jacked666]

Hey Marcus, thanks for the incredible info, however it seems that purity source labs blue tops hgh is the real deal but its just underdosed which is fine because you will have to take more of it, any truth to this? Or are you saying that every chinese hgh is crap and it is not underdosed. Thanks again you have stopped me from buying hgh all together I will fly to a different country and get the real deal from a doc one day