Insulin Train

[JuliusPleaser]

I know it's nearly impossible to eat zero fat per meal unless your eating processed carbs and protein

[JuliusPleaser]

I know its impossible to avoid all fat totally unless you're eating processed protein and carbs

[Kay kay]

I eat at least half my carbs as simple carbs such as pineapple when using slin and I still experience fat loss along with the weight gainZ

[JuliusPleaser]

Upped slin to 7 units today, doubled carbs to be safe. Great workout, beginning to feel that pump.

I think I'm gonna do 3 unit slin on fasted AM cardio days to which will be non-workout days 3x a week. I'm getting too fat and I need to reverse this.

[GearHeaded]

are you monitoring blood glucose levels with a meter ? you'll have way less chance of 'getting fat' if you dial things down so you know exactly how many grams of carbs you can utilize for each IU of insulin used... if you only need 50g of Carbs for 10iu of insulin, then only use that much and nothing more (cause if you keep slamming carbs to cover the slin, and that puts you in a calorie surplus, then yes you will start adding some fat, especially if your not on anabolics).
use just enough insulin and carbs to keep you anabolic and anti-catabolic, so you can stay full and muscular but without spilling over and gaining fat.


now sure, if you have the right synergy of other drugs going on at the same time.. you can slam plenty of carbs and slin and get lean at the same time. but doesn't sound like you have the option to add these other drugs in, so you gotta really dial things down

[JuliusPleaser]

Yes I have a meter... The only time I used it was to see what 5 units did to me. before I shot, I was 95... when the slin kicked in, I was 45. So I carbed up.

So what is the best way to monitor?

[GearHeaded]

you should know your average fasted blood sugar. so lets say its 90 for example. take your slin dose and take a fixed amount of carbs with that dose, lets say its 50g of carbs for 5iu slin. then take your blood sugar reading about 2.5 hours later. IF your in the 110-130s lets say then you took in more carbs then you needed for the amount of slin, if your under 90 then you did not take in enough carbs.
IF at the 2.5 hour mark your going hypo, then not only did you not take in enough carbs at the beginning, you may be the type that needs to have a secondary feeding of carbs (if your super insulin sensitive then this is usually the case).

thats a starting point.. you can check post-perineal blood sugars as well and see how well your shuttling the carbs. but the above way is fairly quick to get a base point

[JuliusPleaser]

I took slin around 10:30 am, ate 60g carbs had black coffee...Headed to the gym drinking intrashake during workout from 11 - 12:30 am. Came home, had PWO shake with raisins and gramcrackers. Just took blood now and got 99... That's over 2 hours later. I have no feelings of going hypo and I have to now eat my actual first meal.

[JuliusPleaser]

Took Blood fasted was 88 this morn.

Just took slin 8 units and ate 2 cups of cereal with fairlife milk. I'll take blood in 45 mins.

[JuliusPleaser]

50 mins later... BG levels are 105

[JuliusPleaser]

Ok. just waited longer, feeling a little shaky...took BG now its 74 … so time to start sipping intrashake on way to gym. Added 8gs of sugar.

[JuliusPleaser]

Just got home after workout and finishing Intrashake.. BG is at 90!

Gonna slam 50g protein and 50 simple carbs... wait 30 mins and test again.

Do I even need to do this is my BG is normal at this point?

[GearHeaded]

Just got home after workout and finishing Intrashake.. BG is at 90!

Gonna slam 50g protein and 50 simple carbs... wait 30 mins and test again.

Do I even need to do this is my BG is normal at this point?

I was just going to say Julius, , damn you got a raging appetite ! heck I pinned 5iu of HGH this morning and 6iu of Insulin (couple hours ago) and all I've had this morning was protein shake and been drinking coffee ... but fuck, thats why I'm only 200 pounds and not growing, I need your appetite!


but no. you don't need to eat again. some of my protocols I give out on here call for eating again post workout, BUT most my protocols have pre and POST workout insulin injections .
if your blood sugar is holding at 90, you should be good to go.

of course if you were trying to grow, then I'd say hell yeah take in the nutrition . but if your trying to stay lean, you need to balance your insulin use and dietary intake of carbs

[JuliusPleaser]

Well I just ate 50gs of carbs in pretzel form. I figure the sodium will also be pumped into the muscle. I'll take blood in 45 mins again see where it is.

I guess the point of insulin is to be able to take in more carbs but have your body at a level in which normal? In other word, if I wasn't taking insulin and ate these carbs, my blood would go to like 130, but because i'm taking slin, it stays within normal range, showing that I shuttled them into whatever areas are in demand? is this correct?


Well there really is no staying lean at this point, I'm already 20% BF and unless I go into a calorie deficit its not goint anywhere. And I don't want to go into a calorie deficit because it may interfere with fertility. Main goal is to get wife pregnant and jump on all gear ASAP lol. So I figured build muscle and eat "cleaner" and hopefully I recomp somehow.

[JuliusPleaser]

So just took blood again about one hr after a PWO shake 50 protein and 50g carbs from pretzels and BG is 88!

I guess the slin is still working, being that R slin peaks at 2 hours in and leaves in total of 4 hours.

[JuliusPleaser]

I'm considering adding GH or MK677 (never done it before) to this slin + igf 1 protocal… I can't deal with this fat anymore and I need a potent fat burner which will not interfere with fertility so no DNP , clen (maybe but dont' feel like it), t3 would eat up my muslces without test...

So logically HGH or M6k77 seems to the what I should add?

Maybe get frag from a different supplier?

If I did add HGH, would this change my slin dosage timing? I take slin preworkout in the am before I work out; I would take HGH at the same time or no?

[GearHeaded]

for fat loss , I would separate your HGH from your insulin protocol . take your HGH first thing upon waking fasted (adding fasted cardio at this time would help . . . despite what the 'natural' evidence based science guys say. they are natty, they don't get that an enhanced athletes drugs work better fasted).
to save some $ you don't have to take your HGH daily. just take it in the mornings when you do fasted cardio.


As for MK677. its not the greatest for fat loss. even though it does increase HGH levels in the body (and hgh has lipolytic effects) it doesn't do it in a precise or timed manner. its just going to increase natty production of HGH by stimulation of more pulses over time. so you can't dial it in like you can exogenous HGH. you would also likely add a few pounds of water weight while on it if taking it daily.
I do like MK for growth though.

IMO.. the best option for you, without taking AAS, for fat loss is to stack ... T4 and Clenbuterol . together these will provide anti-catabolic effects (won't burn up muscle like running T3 without anabolics) and obviously fat burning effects.
150mcg T4 per day
60mcg Clen per day

added benefits is that these will also help re-sensitize androgen receptors. and a bit of 'bro-science' here, any unconverted T4 with Clenbuterol has anabolic properties.

[JuliusPleaser]

I agree t4 would be a good option, however, palumbo states that a healthy thyroid, one who doesn't need therapy, will simply discard any extra t4 floating around, because it doesn't need to convert it all to keep things running.

I guess I have to stop being stubborn and start training later on in the day then...or reverse it and do cardio and fasted state late night....so slowly remove carbs in final meals and then hit gh and cardio.

I have another question too bttw:

So I just took 8 units of slin at 9:30 with carbs and milk, what happens if I wait too long to hit the gym... does the slin start storing fat if there are no damaged muscles? This is what I think could happen so I hit the gym within the hr after shooting (taking R).

[GearHeaded]

I agree t4 would be a good option, however, palumbo states that a healthy thyroid, one who doesn't need therapy, will simply discard any extra t4 floating around, because it doesn't need to convert it all to keep things running.

well right now your taking insulin .. insulin increases your bodies ability to convert T4 in the liver . . T4 is used with insulin and HGH by a lot of guys because of its synergistic effects (plus additional nutrient partitioning).
taking T4 alone (which may be what Dave was referring to) is not near as effective.

I have another question too bttw:

So I just took 8 units of slin at 9:30 with carbs and milk, what happens if I wait too long to hit the gym... does the slin start storing fat if there are no damaged muscles? This is what I think could happen so I hit the gym within the hr after shooting (taking R).

IF your not going to train for awhile then there is no need to take your insulin with your pre-wokrout (or breakfast) meal. eat your breakfast, and then when you get to the gym, shoot your insulin there, and just make sure you have 50g of carbs in your intra workout shake.

this is generally what I do . I eat my pre-workout meal, I wait about an hour or so. then I shoot my insulin right before my workout begins. I drink my intra shake while I workout. then when I get home I shoot more insulin and have my post workout nutrition.

[JuliusPleaser]

Makes sense.

Well my insulin is type R, so basically it kicks in 45 mins or so... So I eat then wait about that time, then hit the gym. My BG as I measured before was stable.

I'm assuming you're using rapid

[GearHeaded]

Makes sense.

Well my insulin is type R, so basically it kicks in 45 mins or so... So I eat then wait about that time, then hit the gym. My BG as I measured before was stable.

I'm assuming you're using rapid

if you look at the prescribing information on Novalin-R , you will see it is NOT recommended to take WITH meals, but to take it 30 mins PRIOR to your meal. ( of course we bodybuilders are using it for much different purposes , so we custom it to our needs )

I use Novalin-R as well.. I inject it pre-workout right before I leave my house to go to the gym. once the workout begins I start sipping on my intra workout nutrition. about 45 mins or so since the time of my injection, the insulin starts kicking in at the same time my intra workout drink is getting assimilated into the blood stream.

[JuliusPleaser]

Ah ok. So what I should do is skip the cereal... wake up fasted, take slin, then get to gym in about 30mins start drinking intra shake... I would probably have to increase the carbs in the shake if i'm going to skip the cereal thing.

I increased to 8 units today, ate cereal and milk, then waited 45 mins went to gym and hit legs... Sweated and got a nice pump too doing drop sets as well. Just now took BG test and got 94... This is after feeling a bit shaky in the gym, thought I was going hypo but wasn't lol.

What do you suggest t4 dosage and brand. You can PM me on that if you wish.

[JuliusPleaser]

Ok. Pinned 10 units of slin today, however, this time I didn't eat until my blood dropped. I took about 1 hr and 15 mins from me to go from 97 BG to 79….

I then ate my cereal and milk...and started making my intraworkout drink. Got in the car and on the way there started sipping drink, and did so all through my workout with zero sides.

So with the R slin, no need to eat instantly after injection and now I know how my body responds to 10 units pre workout.

[JuliusPleaser]

Just upped slin to 10iu preworkout and going to hit 15iu pwo.

I also go t4 and albuterol from research chem site (tastes like shtttt)

I took 200mcg of t4 and 5mg of albuterol to see how my body responds. I think the t4 is too high and I should have only taken 100mcg if the conversion rate is 25%

I only plan on taking all my stuff on workout days, unless I should take albuterol and t4 daily...

[GearHeaded]

I would start 100mcg T4 then ramp up to 150 and just leave it there. the albuterol you may need to dose more then once per day.
personally I would take them daily, as nothing in the way they work for fat loss is dependent on your training per se. Albuterol may work good with fasted cardio, idk (Never used it myself), but still see a benefit in just daily dosing at least

[JuliusPleaser]

OK
sounds good thanks

[fiddlesticks]

something you should note is insulin increases free T, probably by quite a bit.

albuterol in my experience sucked and didn't work at all.

[GearHeaded]

something you should note is insulin increases free T, probably by quite a bit.

good point

just to clarify, insulin can lower SHBG (it actually hinders its production) . the result is an increase in Free T.
Running insulin during your cruises and PCT is a good idea. it also lowers Cortisol, a catabolic hormone

[fiddlesticks]

good point

just to clarify, insulin can lower SHBG (it actually hinders its production) . the result is an increase in Free T.
Running insulin during your cruises and PCT is a good idea. it also lowers Cortisol, a catabolic hormone

isnt it crazy to think something anyone can buy for 25 dollars and use 100+ times can do all these things legally? 0_0

[GearHeaded]

isnt it crazy to think something anyone can buy for 25 dollars and use 100+ times can do all these things legally? 0_0

its a wonderful thing.. gotta love Walmart too , I can pick up a new gun, a bunch of ammo, a 12 pack of beer, and some insulin on the way out (thats the way it should be imo

[Old Duffer]

its a wonderful thing.. gotta love Walmart too , I can pick up a new gun, a bunch of ammo, a 12 pack of beer, and some insulin on the way out (thats the way it should be imo

LMAO!

And if your Wal-Mart is like mine, there's almost always a show!

[JuliusPleaser]

OK so weird thing today.

I just took my BG levels PWO and they were 114! Is that normal after eating carbs pre and then doing the intradrink? Last time it was not that high.

I'm currently doing 10 units pre and 15 units post.

I just shot another 15 units of slin, and having my PWO drink/carbs... Should this number go lower?

I guess the real question is, what is not an acceptable level while slin is active? Shouldn't it be lower than that? "Normal" ranges go from 80 fasted to 140 after a meal in normal people...

My fasting levels have been in the high 90s in the am.

[JuliusPleaser]

bump

[JuliusPleaser]

gear headed you there? Lol

[GearHeaded]

OK so weird thing today.

I just took my BG levels PWO and they were 114! Is that normal after eating carbs pre and then doing the intradrink? Last time it was not that high.

this statement confuses me . you took your blood sugar pre workout , then you ask if the levels are normal after eating carbs and doing the intra workout drink . I'm confused which is it, pre workout blood sugar levels, or your levels post workout after your intra workout drink ?

your pre workout blood sugar levels could be virtually anything . all depends on what you ate earlier . chicken and broccoli will give you a different reading then chicken and white rice.

the numbers that are most important are your blood sugar levels 2 hours after taking insulin (novalin r). IF they are way below your normal fasted blood sugar levels then you either took too much insulin or not enough carbs.
if your taking sugar levels at other times in between meals and such and your getting readings like 95, 115, etc.. I wouldn't pay attention to that.
If your over 140 and you haven't ate in a couple hours thats a concern. If your under 70 and you have ate, thats a concern.

but keep tracking your fasted blood sugar . if over time it keeps creeping up higher and higher then you may want to make a change. are you taking HGH or any peptides ?

[JuliusPleaser]

Only thing I'm taking is IGF 1, but you answered my question. So long as the slin keeps it in normal levels PWO I should be fine. It was 114 so that is certainly in the normal range.

[JuliusPleaser]

and thank for all the info BTW... much appreciated