Insulin, fat and my 8year old

My 8 year old is on Humalog and Lantis insulin, He has little to no body fat. Six months ago he started to do his own injections. He injects in the top of his legs and his triceps. We went into the doctors and he pointed out that the insulin is causing the fat to grow only in his injection sights. The doctor says that this is very common. When you look at his legs they look strange because he now has a thick layer of fat only on the top of his legs. The doctor suggests that we inject the insulin in the areas that the fat will be easy to work off like the outside of legs. My son has a very clean diet, low in fat and only eats 150 carbs a day. This info was interesting to me because I have considered using insulin but have always planned on injecting stomach. I would avoid injecting the stomach and use the leanest parts of my body to inject so that if the fat starts to accumulate it will be easy to work off.

this is very interesting...when i ran humalog at 15iu's split into 7iu am and 8iu pm i injected subcutaneously into my abs and never had an abnormal amount of fat show up.

while i don't understand all the science involved here, i would like to think this falls under the category of spot injections. spot injecting does not actually increase muscle mass, and i really doubt that insulin directly deposits the fat into the area it was injected into.

my only take on this is that his legs are the place the body wants to deposit the fat and that it just happens to be coincidental that he does his injections there. everyone stores fat in different places, however when he injects his insulin it hits the entire body, not just the leg.

you also need to realize that he is a diabetic and that the insulin will do different things to someone who doesn't have a deficiency, so i wouldn't worry for you yourself if you have done your research.

anyone know something that i don't? i feel like i might be completely wrong here, but until someone points it out i'll be sitting here sippin my cystal light.

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Originally Posted by daem

this is very interesting...when i ran humalog at 15iu's split into 7iu am and 8iu pm i injected subcutaneously into my abs and never had an abnormal amount of fat show up.

while i don't understand all the science involved here, i would like to think this falls under the category of spot injections. spot injecting does not actually increase muscle mass, and i really doubt that insulin directly deposits the fat into the area it was injected into.

my only take on this is that his legs are the place the body wants to deposit the fat and that it just happens to be coincidental that he does his injections there. everyone stores fat in different places, however when he injects his insulin it hits the entire body, not just the leg.

you also need to realize that he is a diabetic and that the insulin will do different things to someone who doesn't have a deficiency, so i wouldn't worry for you yourself if you have done your research.

anyone know something that i don't? i feel like i might be completely wrong here, but until someone points it out i'll be sitting here sippin my cystal light.

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Anything that is free to bind in injected form (unesterified gear...fast acting slin (humalog)) will bind to the first receptors it encounters. Spot injections may not produce a great deal more of an effect in the site of injection, but they DO have more effect in the site than distant sites.

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Originally Posted by einstein1905

Anything that is free to bind in injected form (unesterified gear...fast acting slin (humalog)) will bind to the first receptors it encounters. Spot injections may not produce a great deal more of an effect in the site of injection, but they DO have more effect in the site than distant sites.

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that makes sense.

if someone were to run humulin then it wouldn't bind to those receptors?

just making sure i understand that it is in fact the humalog causing this.

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Originally Posted by daem

that makes sense.

if someone were to run humulin then it wouldn't bind to those receptors?

just making sure i understand that it is in fact the humalog causing this.

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I'm not sure. I was surprised to hear that there were localized fat deposits. Just the kinetics of it tells you that it will have a greater degree of effect at or near the injection site than at distant sites. It's the same concept as site-specific growth from short acting gear though. I don't know how long it takes for slin (in any form) to migrate after a subQ shot. That's really interesting though...I'm glad it was posted. Time to move slin shot targets.

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Originally Posted by einstein1905

That's really interesting though...I'm glad it was posted. Time to move slin shot targets.

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yeah, i agree...very interesting. i'm almost afraid to say that i will experiment with this since i would hate to increase any localized fat, but if it is true then i would want to prevent myself or anyone from doing it in the future.

I didn't think about this until today, but maybe the Lantis is the culprit here?...I am going to do some searches and see what I can find.

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Originally Posted by daem

yeah, i agree...very interesting. i'm almost afraid to say that i will experiment with this since i would hate to increase any localized fat, but if it is true then i would want to prevent myself or anyone from doing it in the future.

I didn't think about this until today, but maybe the Lantis is the culprit here?...I am going to do some searches and see what I can find.

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Lantus isn't the best choice. We want to rapidly replenish glycogen stores in glycogen-depleted muscles. Insulin is also a more general storage/shutling peptide, so it facilitates in the uptake of all of our post w/o goodies. Humalog allows us to take in carbs and proteins during its window of activity and avoid fats during this same period. After the window of activity has passed, we can take in our fats. The longer acting slins make it more difficult to keep off additional (and unnecessary) fat. The powerful/fast effects of humalog are exactly what we want post w/o. Longer acting slins "stretch out" their potency. Either will work....I just have convinced myself humalog makes the most sense in many respects.

Just rotating subQ sites should be more than suficient.

This is a common side-effect of insulin injections and is why patients are instructed to rotate injections sites.

I've wondered if site-injecting insulin IM would cause a similar localized hypertrophy....in theory it should work by the same mechanism...super saturation of insulin receptors.

The lantis is probably the culprit because it is active for so long.

i think that IM insulin would at the very least cause a large amount of glucose uptake at the injection site, providing a fuller look to the muscle.

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Originally Posted by chrisAdams

i think that IM insulin would at the very least cause a large amount of glucose uptake at the injection site, providing a fuller look to the muscle.

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It should cause an increased uptake of all nutrients, including AA's, not just glucose...in theory anyways. I might try this and see if I notice any difference.

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Originally Posted by longhornDr

It should cause an increased uptake of all nutrients, including AA's, not just glucose...in theory anyways. I might try this and see if I notice any difference.

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I can't believe this hasn't been suggested before....very good idea. Sometimes we think so close-mindedly. Hitting the muscle worked post w/o IM with slin should give some results. However, now you have to determine how many carbs to take in while shooting IM. The effects of something like humalog, I'd imagine, wouldn't have AS drastic effects on blood glucose versus if the slin were systemic. This would be very interesting. Shooting IM would also eliminate the worry of localized fat deposits as a result of the slin shots.

I have to expalin that my son has been using lantis for only about a month and his lantis injections are once a day and we inject them into his glutes. The humalog is what I think is causing the local sight growth of fat. My son is injecting humilog every time he eats any food. He can somtimes inject up to 8 times a day including correction. I didnt make it very clear in the first post but the doctor is telling us that it is ok to inject IM because of the low body fat on the rest of his body. When we inject in the lean areas his glucose levels seem to be the same as Sub C. We are still using a short needle so the insulin might still be directly under the skin but it would seem that some of it would remain in the muscle. There is no way for my son not to eat fat after injections so this is worse case. When I decide to use insulin I am going to try and inject IM in the leanest areas of my body.

Thanks for the replys

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Originally Posted by longhornDr

It should cause an increased uptake of all nutrients, including AA's, not just glucose...in theory anyways. I might try this and see if I notice any difference.

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like i said, at the very least increase glucose uptake. This could be an interesting way of making sure you don't show up to a show flat. 100 grams simple sugar, 1 iu insulin site injections. voila, inflated muscle.

My brother is a Diabetic taking humalog and humatin (NPH), he started injecting in his stomache and got what looked like fat lumps forming on each side of his belly (slightly below the belly botton on each side) well he went to the docters and they told him that it is insulin that is int he fat, not being absorbed by the body, i guess if you dont rotate the insulin to arms legs and stomeache it accumulates and if you kepp shooting in the lump ur not gettign allt he insulin, hope i explaind it right

Insulin when injected is like injecting HCG of b-12. You can feel the lump under the skin but it goes a way in a couple of days. Also if your brother is not in his honeymoon period he should ask his doctor about lantis. Lantis last 24hr instead of 8hr and controlling blood sugar levels are alot easier. It also brings him one step closer to using a pump.

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Originally Posted by destroying angle

Insulin when injected is like injecting HCG of b-12. You can feel the lump under the skin but it goes a way in a couple of days. Also if your brother is not in his honeymoon period he should ask his doctor about lantis. Lantis last 24hr instead of 8hr and controlling blood sugar levels are alot easier. It also brings him one step closer to using a pump.

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my brother has been on the pump, but didnt like being attachedto it because he played college level football and it was a hassle. Im not pos. but nph is a 12 hour insulin with a peak of 6 to 8, does your son count carbs?

Yes he does. I was wondering what the difference would be if a non diabetic was consume 100grams of complex carbs or 100grams of simple carbs after injecting 10iu of humalog? I know that there is a big difference in my sons glucose levels when he consumes different types of carbs. If he consumes simlple carbs, his glucose levels will raise faster than the humalog can compensate. I would think that if you consume alot of simple carbs your body could convert some of the blood sugar to fat? What do you guys think?

friends that i know that have used slin would take it 15-20 min. after a work out when the effects kick in, they would consume 50 simple sugars and 50 complex, then immediatley drink a protien shake, 30-40 grams pro., usually, depending on the person, around 10 cc

Your son could take clen to get rid of his fat deposits.........j/k trying to lighten things up.