shoulder Tendonitis ???

[dogman69]

i have Tendonitis in my elbow and recently my shoulder is killing me in the same arm feels just like tennis elbow but in my shoulder i know what to do fro my elbow but what can i do fro my shoulder the pain is really bad cant hold my gym shorts when im done working out please help???

[barondumonde]

Be more specific...most "tendonitis" is really just unidentified tendinosis. If you hear a popping sound in your joint you have tendon/ligament laxity (overstretching & injury).

Personally, I would never ice a joint...get a massage, apply lots of heat, and get some movement. Forget RICE, you need MEAT:

Movement
Exercise
Analgesics
Treatment (that is specific to healing)

[dogman69]

it is a really sharp pain like a nife going into my shoulder it runs down my whole are it hurts even when im sleeping i wake up from it it feels like tennis elbow which i already have my fingers hurt and for arm no popping

[barondumonde]

I can't give you a definite diagnosis since I'm not a medical doctor and since I would need to see you in person, but sounds to me like you have some muscle trauma/edema (can happen from something you did in the gym), and/or possibly some tendinosis, and secondary tendonitis.

The most important thing for you to do is try and remember when you first started noticing the pain. What do YOU think caused it? Also, where exactly is the pain? You said you have pain running through your whole arm. That sounds like "referral pain." Look it up.

So ok...first off...go easy on the workouts in the gym. Exercise is good for healing, but too much exercise or exercise that is too intense keeps the injury from healing.

I'm not saying that you should stop working out...Not at all...Work AROUND it. Nothing should hurt TOO much when you're exercising.

Next, get some heat on your shoulder, and seriously think about getting a good massage, or maybe try and self massage the shoulder. Move it around through the full range of motion no matter the pain. If you don't stretch it lightly and through the full range of motion, you run the risk of developing scar tissue.

That's as far as I can say without knowing more about what exactly is going on. Sharp pain like you described sounds a lot like muscle edema, but could just as well be tendinosis, especially given that you said you were experiencing referral pain.

-baron

[dogman69]

you were lots of help thanks alot

[KINGKONG]

The only way to cure tendon micro tears is time off, if thats what it is..Give yourself a couple weeks off..Take it to the doc if it doesn't feel better in 3-4 days..Eat some Ibuprofin(sp.) for the pain and imflamation..Good Luck!!

[barondumonde]

The only way to cure tendon micro tears is time off, if thats what it is..Give yourself a couple weeks off..Take it to the doc if it doesn't feel better in 3-4 days..Eat some Ibuprofin(sp.) for the pain and imflamation..Good Luck!!

Dude--don't listen to that. Don't "eat some Ibuprofin!" That will do nothing to help with your injury. I promise you! Get some heat on that shoulder pronto...you need to get some blood into the area so the healing process gets up and running.

Look up "referral pain" or "referred pain," and look up "radiated pain."

Also look up shoulder "tendon laxity" and "ligament laxity."

-baron

[KINGKONG]

Dude--don't listen to that. Don't "eat some Ibuprofin!" That will do nothing to help with your injury. I promise you! Get some heat on that shoulder pronto...you need to get some blood into the area so the healing process gets up and running.

Look up "referral pain" or "referred pain," and look up "radiated pain."

Also look up shoulder "tendon laxity" and "ligament laxity."

-baron

Whats wrong with dulling the pain??

[KINGKONG]

I wasn't trying to dispute you I just know from micro tears of my own that pain-killers helped get through the pain of everyday living with it..I don't know why you jumped all over my attempt at helping the guy..It sounds like you know what your taking about..I just know what I know from experience not books..

[barondumonde]

king,

sorry if I came off as a little confrontational. I mainly wanted to make sure that dogman doesn't damage his joint with anti-inflammatories. I know from my own experience that they might dull the inflammatory pain but they leave your joint damaged. I have had to spend many many thousands of dollars because I made the mistake of taking anti-inflammatories like everyone told me I should. My joints got ruined and have never fully recovered even after 2 and a half years.

sorry again,
baron

[dogman69]

The only way to cure tendon micro tears is time off, if thats what it is..Give yourself a couple weeks off..Take it to the doc if it doesn't feel better in 3-4 days..Eat some Ibuprofin(sp.) for the pain and imflamation..Good Luck!!

cant take the time off i just start my cycle but i have been heating it and taking it down a notch pain ha been getting alot better.

what do you guys think of icyhot or bengay i work constrution so theres alot of heavy lifting involed and ive been using bengay it helps alot but if its not good for it let me know thanks

[barondumonde]

cant take the time off i just start my cycle but i have been heating it and taking it down a notch pain ha been getting alot better.

what do you guys think of icyhot or bengay i work constrution so theres alot of heavy lifting involed and ive been using bengay it helps alot but if its not good for it let me know thanks

Stay away from both. Just keep applying that heat as much as you can, stretch lightly, and keep moving it and mild exercise. It just takes a while for these things to get better.

Again--stay away from any over the counter cream sold for pain.

[KINGKONG]

king,

sorry if I came off as a little confrontational. I mainly wanted to make sure that dogman doesn't damage his joint with . I know from my own experience that they might dull the inflammatory pain but they leave your joint damaged. I have had to spend many many thousands of dollars because I made the mistake of taking anti-inflammatories like everyone told me I should. My joints got ruined and have never fully recovered even after 2 and a half years.

sorry again,
baron

Wow, You learn something new ED..I had no idea anti-inflammatories can hold up recovery on joints..I better grin and bear with the pain next time or get some ocycotin j/k..Thanks for acting mature with your responce..

[KINGKONG]

Stay away from both. Just keep applying that heat as much as you can, stretch lightly, and keep moving it and mild exercise. It just takes a while for these things to get better.

Again--stay away from any over the counter cream sold for pain.

What do you reccomend for pain baron??

[KINGKONG]

cant take the time off i just start my cycle but i have been heating it and taking it down a notch pain ha been getting alot better.

what do you guys think of icyhot or bengay i work constrution so theres alot of heavy lifting involed and ive been using bengay it helps alot but if its not good for it let me know thanks

I would take the time off..If it is a tendon it will eventually break and slide up in your arm like a pulled up windowshade..It will take serious work to repair an injury like that one..I have a rule, if the pain isnt in my muscle, iam resting untill it's healed..Unless your going for the nationals I suggest the same..JMO

[barondumonde]

What do you reccomend for pain baron??

personally, I live with pain all the time because I'm recovering from the mistakes I made years ago...but I know enough that I've decided it's not worth it to take any unnatural "pain relievers," but especially anti-inflammatories. Getting heat, sauna, stretching, light exercise, watching my diet and emphasizing protein, taking large amounts of minerals, vitamins (especially C, B12, and Zinc) and drinking loads of water has always helped me IMMENSELY...so much so that I don't take any pain relievers--even natural pain relievers.

If you want something natural, try
Cayenne,
Willow Bark,
Licorice Root,
and other herbals, or

Digestive enzyme capsules have been shown to reduce inflammation naturally. Bromelain is especially helpful.

you can also take *****-3 figh oils.

if the pain is so severe that you can't bear to live, it's ok to take a little tylenol. But no Motrin or Aspirin or other shit. Just a little Tylenol, and only if completely necessary.

[barondumonde]

Wow, You learn something new ED..I had no idea anti-inflammatories can hold up recovery on joints..I better grin and bear with the pain next time or get some ocycotin j/k..Thanks for acting mature with your responce..

Adapted from Prolonews.com:

PROLOTHERAPY AND TENDINOSIS

Do you want to know the end result of a person treating their pain with rest, ice, bracing, immobility, anti-inflammatory medications and Steroid injections? Tendinosis, or at least some type of degeneration. It is amazing to me that very few people receive the diagnosis of tendinosis. Do you know why? It is because the body has tremendous regenerative capabilities. So while traditional medicine practices continue to inhibit the normal healing inflammatory reaction with ice, rest, anti-inflammatories, and cortisone shots, the body often still finds a way to rid itself of pain. But mark my words, if you continue to use anti-inflammatory medications, at some point your body will degenerate. Degeneration will occur because you are stopping the normal inflammatory reaction. It may not be tendinosis, but you will be left with a degenerated joint.

The final stage of tendon degeneration is called tendinosis. Tendinosis means tendon degeneration. We do not have such a term for ligament degeneration, but if you have been told you have chronic instability of a joint, most likely you have end stage ligament degeneration. Have you been told you have severe back, neck, shoulder, knee, hip, or ankle arthritis? Maybe you have been told you have “bone on bone” or you are close to getting it? If so then you have end stage joint degeneration. The mechanism by which all of these types of things occur is basically the same: traditional anti-inflammatory treatments.

Yes, anti-inflammatory medications and specific steroid or cortisone injections and its buddies, accelerate the degeneration of such structures as lligaments, tendons, and joints! The long term effect of these medications is tendon, ligament and joint degeneration. Tendon degeneration is called tendinosis. Some of the more common areas of tendinosis occur in the Achilles and elbow (extensor tendons). Under a microscope, tendinosis appears as lipoid or mucoid degeneration within the tendon with fibrinoid necrosis and discontinuity of tendon fibers. Microscopically, attempted healing is suggested by the presence of histiocytes and capillaries. Why again did the tendon not heal? Correct, because you kept icing the area, taking anti-inflammatory medications, and getting cortisone shots. The exercise you were doing during this time didn’t help like you thought it would.

What are you to do?
If you consult with an orthopedic surgeon, he/she will most likely recommend surgery. The tendinosis is removed and tendon is then sutured back to its origin or insertion site. With good rehabilitation there is a chance that in six to nine months you might be exercising again. Wow! That’s a long time to be side-lined, you think. Yes, it surely is! But is there a better way?

For over fifteen years, I have been treating people with tendinosis with Prolotherapy. Step one is to have them stop taking anti-inflammatories and to take supplements to aid in healing. I also do things to put their physiology in an anabolic state (growth). I do blood hormone testing and may get the person on some hormones such as human growth hormone, DHEA, or testosterone depending on the results. I may also use human growth hormone in the Prolotherapy solutions to aid in the repair of the degenerated tendon. Typically tendinosis is treated every two to three weeks for three to four visits. Often six visits are needed for the tendon to feel strong again and achieve full repair.

While a patient is undergoing Prolotherapy, he/she is still exercising, but the exercise must not be something that causes pain in the area. Movement is good for healing, as it increases blood flow to the area.

Prolotherapy is a great alternative treatment for tendinosis. However, I encourage you to first and foremost stop doing things that cause you to get tendinosis in the first place. If you have pain from a degenerative condition, taking NSAID’s or getting cortisone shots is a bad idea. Taking anti-inflammatory medications such as motrin or ibuprofen is a bad idea. Putting ice on an injury is a bad idea. All these treatments do is stop healing and increase the chances that your tendons, ligaments, and joints will become degenerated. The end stage of these conditions is called tendinosis (tendons), chronic instability (ligaments) and bone on bone phenomenon (joint).

I believe Prolotherapy is the best treatment for these conditions because it helps rebuild the degenerated tendons, ligaments, and joints. Prolotherapy stimulates the body to repair painful areas such as tendons, ligaments, and joints. Prolotherapy stimulates the normal inflammatory healing reactions. Thus, a condition of tendinosis is temporarily changed to a tendonitis, with the long term goal being a normal strengthened tendon. A person with the diagnosis of tendinosis should expect to get at least six sessions of Prolotherapy. As discussed above healing is maximized by proper diet, supplements, and gentle exercise. So if you have been told that you have tendinosis or degenerative arthritis, first stop doing things that accelerate the process, then take a trip to Oak Park, Illinois to your local Prolotherapy doctor.

[KINGKONG]

Adapted from Prolonews.com:

PROLOTHERAPY AND TENDINOSIS

Do you want to know the end result of a person treating their pain with rest, ice, bracing, immobility, anti-inflammatory medications and Steroid injections? Tendinosis, or at least some type of degeneration. It is amazing to me that very few people receive the diagnosis of tendinosis. Do you know why? It is because the body has tremendous regenerative capabilities. So while traditional medicine practices continue to inhibit the normal healing inflammatory reaction with ice, rest, anti-inflammatories, and cortisone shots, the body often still finds a way to rid itself of pain. But mark my words, if you continue to use anti-inflammatory medications, at some point your body will degenerate. Degeneration will occur because you are stopping the normal inflammatory reaction. It may not be tendinosis, but you will be left with a degenerated joint.

The final stage of tendon degeneration is called tendinosis. Tendinosis means tendon degeneration. We do not have such a term for ligament degeneration, but if you have been told you have chronic instability of a joint, most likely you have end stage ligament degeneration. Have you been told you have severe back, neck, shoulder, knee, hip, or ankle arthritis? Maybe you have been told you have “bone on bone” or you are close to getting it? If so then you have end stage joint degeneration. The mechanism by which all of these types of things occur is basically the same: traditional anti-inflammatory treatments.

Yes, anti-inflammatory medications and specific steroid or cortisone injections and its buddies, accelerate the degeneration of such structures as lligaments, tendons, and joints! The long term effect of these medications is tendon, ligament and joint degeneration. Tendon degeneration is called tendinosis. Some of the more common areas of tendinosis occur in the Achilles and elbow (extensor tendons). Under a microscope, tendinosis appears as lipoid or mucoid degeneration within the tendon with fibrinoid necrosis and discontinuity of tendon fibers. Microscopically, attempted healing is suggested by the presence of histiocytes and capillaries. Why again did the tendon not heal? Correct, because you kept icing the area, taking anti-inflammatory medications, and getting cortisone shots. The exercise you were doing during this time didn’t help like you thought it would.

What are you to do?
If you consult with an orthopedic surgeon, he/she will most likely recommend surgery. The tendinosis is removed and tendon is then sutured back to its origin or insertion site. With good rehabilitation there is a chance that in six to nine months you might be exercising again. Wow! That’s a long time to be side-lined, you think. Yes, it surely is! But is there a better way?

For over fifteen years, I have been treating people with tendinosis with Prolotherapy. Step one is to have them stop taking anti-inflammatories and to take supplements to aid in healing. I also do things to put their physiology in an anabolic state (growth). I do blood hormone testing and may get the person on some hormones such as human growth hormone, DHEA, or testosterone depending on the results. I may also use human growth hormone in the Prolotherapy solutions to aid in the repair of the degenerated tendon. Typically tendinosis is treated every two to three weeks for three to four visits. Often six visits are needed for the tendon to feel strong again and achieve full repair.

While a patient is undergoing Prolotherapy, he/she is still exercising, but the exercise must not be something that causes pain in the area. Movement is good for healing, as it increases blood flow to the area.

Prolotherapy is a great alternative treatment for tendinosis. However, I encourage you to first and foremost stop doing things that cause you to get tendinosis in the first place. If you have pain from a degenerative condition, taking NSAID’s or getting cortisone shots is a bad idea. Taking anti-inflammatory medications such as motrin or ibuprofen is a bad idea. Putting ice on an injury is a bad idea. All these treatments do is stop healing and increase the chances that your tendons, ligaments, and joints will become degenerated. The end stage of these conditions is called tendinosis (tendons), chronic instability (ligaments) and bone on bone phenomenon (joint).

I believe Prolotherapy is the best treatment for these conditions because it helps rebuild the degenerated tendons, ligaments, and joints. Prolotherapy stimulates the body to repair painful areas such as tendons, ligaments, and joints. Prolotherapy stimulates the normal inflammatory healing reactions. Thus, a condition of tendinosis is temporarily changed to a tendonitis, with the long term goal being a normal strengthened tendon. A person with the diagnosis of tendinosis should expect to get at least six sessions of Prolotherapy. As discussed above healing is maximized by proper diet, supplements, and gentle exercise. So if you have been told that you have tendinosis or degenerative arthritis, first stop doing things that accelerate the process, then take a trip to Oak Park, Illinois to your local Prolotherapy doctor.

Good Read,I printed it for my binder Iam making full of stuff I like to reveiw!!I like your outlook on healthy bodybuilding..Ive always beleived too many bodybuilder or powerlifters get into the pain-killers nubain or oxy's and too high of doses of AS or GH or thyriod drugs and make bodybuilding unhealthy..You pretty much gotta be on an IV drip of GH,IGF-1 and slin to be a serious pro these days to compete with the ronnies or jay cutlers of this world IMO..Iam curious what your outlook is on cycles of AS or AS period, how high mg's, how long whats your pct look like..Drop a PM to me about that if you got some spare time..Iam really trying not to make any mistakes that I'll regret later..So I like to get as many opinion's possible and remember things I find usefull and throw the rest of it in the opinion's category if you know what I mean...Thanks
KK

[tanaya]

One of the most common causes of shoulder pain is rotator cuff tendonitis. Rotator cuff tedonitis is also commonly called shoulder tendonitis, or shoulder bursitis. All of these terms refer to the condition that causes inflammation around the rotator cuff tendons of the shoulder joint. Shoulder tendonitis can make simple shoulder movements painful and commonly causes shoulder pain while sleeping.
Shoulder bursitis and rotator cuff tendonitis are different ways of saying there is inflammation of a particular area within the shoulder joint that is causing a common set of symptoms. The proper terminology for these symptoms is 'impingement syndrome.' Impingement syndrome occurs when there is inflammation of the rotator cuff tendons and the bursa that surrounds these tendons. There is a difference between tendonitis and bursitis, but in most cases of impingement syndrome there is a combination of these problems.
http://www.arthroscopysurgeryindia.c...les.aspx?id=14

[terraj]

Correct and good first post...shame you put it on such an old thread.

[protrac231]

Baron, What about Prolo therapy? Ive been getting weekly shots in my shoulder for that, and it seems to help. What they do is inject an irritant into your shoulder, this causes a localized inflammation in these weak areas which then increases the blood supply and flow of nutrients and stimulates the tissue to repair itself.

Anyone else try this? Im having good luck with it.