Shoulder injury

**gettinbig30** · 10-31-2015, 10:09 AM

Thinking about taking 2-3 weeks off from training due to a shoulder injury that just won't heal. I quit doing heavy bench press or heavy presses in general. Is there any advice that y'all can give me on how to not lose too much muscle mass, if that is even possible, while on break. I plan on doing a lot of cardio still, just as much as I life, time wise. I still plan on dieting as I am now.
Thanks again for y'all's experience as always

**Chauffeur** · 11-01-2015, 08:19 AM

If you're only taking 2-3 weeks off (which seems incredibly short for a shoulder injury) you're not going to lose any significant amount of muscle. You'll feel like you're getting smaller, but you're not really losing any mass.

Take as much time as you need and don't force yourself back into the gym until your shoulder is good to go. I know that's hard for a lot of people, but it's the smart thing to do.

Think of it like this...if you don't allow this to heal and you come back too early, you're putting yourself at a high risk for a more serious injury...which could put you out of the gym for a VERY long time, especially if you need surgery. Is it worth it?

I'm willing to bet that every single person here who has suffered a serious shoulder injury from lifting wishes that they listened to their body a bit more and didn't push so hard in the gym when pain/discomfort set in. I'm one of them.

I know it sucks, but you'll save yourself a lot of pain and stress by taking it easy for awhile.

**SidVicious77** · 11-01-2015, 07:45 PM

Normally you wouldn't lose too much muscle in a couple of weeks, but with an injury it is possible - inflammation tends to break down healthy tissue as well. The best thing that you can do is stay as chilled out as possible, and keep eating enough calories and protein to hold on to as much as you can. I would also suggest easing off on the cardio to help hold on to muscle mass, unless your goal is to stay lean.
Do NOT get back into lifting too early - it's easier to recover a little lost muscle than to deal with aggravating your injury and turning it chronic. You can still do legs though, and depending how it feels, maybe arms and sh*t...

**gettinbig30** · 11-02-2015, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Chauffeur

If you're only taking 2-3 weeks off (which seems incredibly short for a shoulder injury) you're not going to lose any significant amount of muscle. You'll feel like you're getting smaller, but you're not really losing any mass. Take as much time as you need and don't force yourself back into the gym until your shoulder is good to go. I know that's hard for a lot of people, but it's the smart thing to do. Think of it like this...if you don't allow this to heal and you come back too early, you're putting yourself at a high risk for a more serious injury...which could put you out of the gym for a VERY long time, especially if you need surgery. Is it worth it? I'm willing to bet that every single person here who has suffered a serious shoulder injury from lifting wishes that they listened to their body a bit more and didn't push so hard in the gym when pain/discomfort set in. I'm one of them. I know it sucks, but you'll save yourself a lot of pain and stress by taking it easy for awhile.

i say 2-3 weeks because I hate not being in the gym. It's my second home, haha. But I know it's going to take longer. I guess it's gonna be cardio time. Fml. I know it needs the proper time to heal, I just worked so hard from the last few years for what I have, I just can't imagine losing it.

**bass** · 11-02-2015, 03:49 PM

before shoulder surgery i only did cable machines, no free weight, but, if it hurts don't do it, let it completely heal otherwise you'll end up doing surgery, like me!

**lovbyts** · 11-03-2015, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by bass

before shoulder surgery i only did cable machines, no free weight, but, if it hurts don't do it, let it completely heal otherwise you'll end up doing surgery, like me!

And me. ^^^

**NACH3** · 11-03-2015, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

And me. ^^^

And me(x3 on R)^^

**Chauffeur** · 11-03-2015, 12:52 PM

And me.

**22-250** · 11-03-2015, 01:58 PM

I hurt my left shoulder in Oct of 2014. Couldn't shampoo my hair, tuck my shirt in or wipe my a$$ with my left hand. Took six weeks off and it was much better, probably 60% range of motion without pain but started going downhill again when I started lifting. in May 2015 I took six months off and it reached at 90% ROM without pain. Now I've been back for four weeks and it is actually improving. I'd say currently at 100% ROM during daily activity without pain and only hurts a little when lifting.

**22-250** · 11-03-2015, 01:59 PM

Forgot to mention that in those six months I dropped from 248 to 230. Mostly muscle, but in four weeks my physique looks almost the same as before and I'm at 243 now. What I'm saying is that even if you lose some muscle, it can be regained pretty quickly.

**Juced_porkchop** · 11-03-2015, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

Thinking about taking 2-3 weeks off from training due to a shoulder injury that just won't heal. I quit doing heavy bench press or heavy presses in general. Is there any advice that y'all can give me on how to not lose too much muscle mass, if that is even possible, while on break. I plan on doing a lot of cardio still, just as much as I life, time wise. I still plan on dieting as I am now.
Thanks again for y'all's experience as always

I would look into peptide TB500 and BPC 157 to help healing (and im sure muscle loss also)

**gettinbig30** · 11-04-2015, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by 22-250

Forgot to mention that in those six months I dropped from 248 to 230. Mostly muscle, but in four weeks my physique looks almost the same as before and I'm at 243 now. What I'm saying is that even if you lose some muscle, it can be regained pretty quickly.

did you try to do small things like just arms on your break?

**22-250** · 11-04-2015, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

did you try to do small things like just arms on your break?

I'm a ocd and so I focused 100% on work... Pretty much 12 hours per day for 6 months with only 5 days off. I didn't have the frame of mind to do small stuff. It paid off and now I'm focused on lifting again.

**22-250** · 11-04-2015, 10:05 AM

One more important note. It seemed to get better over the course of the first three months off. The second three months it still hurt somewhat and was stable... pain and ROM not improving or getting worse. That was probably the point where I could have started up again. Back at of lifting the first two weeks it actually started improving. I'm guessing it was the movement breaking up the scar tissue but really don't know for sure.

**gettinbig30** · 11-05-2015, 04:16 PM

Just did my third day of no lifting, walked three miles everyday so far. I'm planning on doing legs twice a week. I'm gonna do some light training on arms twice a week, just light enough to keep some tone. I hate this. I've been lifting 6 days a week for the last 4 years, I don't party at all, all I do is work and lift. It's gonna take some getting used to

**22-250** · 11-05-2015, 11:54 PM

6 days for four years. that's awesome. I made it 15 months then had my hiccup and now back four days. Almost ready for six days.

While you are nursing the shoulder, its a good time to blast your neck and forearms in addition to legs and abs. If you are like most, they are lagging. I wish I had done that.

Also, if you insist on working arms, you might consider machines or rests that stabilize the shoulder, like preacher curl selectorized or the tricep preacher selectorized. You might be able to find a position that doesn't hurt at all.

**gettinbig30** · 11-06-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by 22-250

6 days for four years. that's awesome. I made it 15 months then had my hiccup and now back four days. Almost ready for six days. While you are nursing the shoulder, its a good time to blast your neck and forearms in addition to legs and abs. If you are like most, they are lagging. I wish I had done that. Also, if you insist on working arms, you might consider machines or rests that stabilize the shoulder, like preacher curl selectorized or the tricep preacher selectorized. You might be able to find a position that doesn't hurt at all.

yea, I'm gonna keep it light enough to where it doesn't get any swinging from the shoulders or back. I just can't imagine taking this much time off and pretty much almost losing everything I've gained from the last few years, but I also don't want to be stupid and hurt myself beyond repair. It's already hard to get out of bed, might have to tell the lady we need to switch sides on the bed, haha

**bartman314** · 11-06-2015, 03:33 PM

have you seen a doc or pt guy? you may want to get a diagnosis so you know what's going on and get a clearer picture. this is important for gauging the amount of rest that will really be needed and what if any workout mods you need to make to keep it healthy. for examply, i have severe arthritis in my shoulder and a blown cuff. i now incorporate pt rc exercises in my regular shoulder workout and stay away from militaries.

**gettinbig30** · 11-06-2015, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by bartman314

have you seen a doc or pt guy? you may want to get a diagnosis so you know what's going on and get a clearer picture. this is important for gauging the amount of rest that will really be needed and what if any workout mods you need to make to keep it healthy. for examply, i have severe arthritis in my shoulder and a blown cuff. i now incorporate pt rc exercises in my regular shoulder workout and stay away from militaries.

yea, I need to make a doc appt but I keep putting it off saying I'm too busy with work. Doing that next week.

**22-250** · 11-07-2015, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by bartman314

have you seen a doc or pt guy? you may want to get a diagnosis so you know what's going on and get a clearer picture. this is important for gauging the amount of rest that will really be needed and what if any workout mods you need to make to keep it healthy. for examply, i have severe arthritis in my shoulder and a blown cuff. i now incorporate pt rc exercises in my regular shoulder workout and stay away from militaries.

Dr. appt is definitely a good idea. Bartman, which pt rc exercises? innies and outies? Not sure what they are really called but I'm doing them and would like to add to my rc protection routine. If you have any good ones, let us know. No more overhead anything for me with the exception of close grip neutral handgrip pullups.

**22-250** · 12-11-2015, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

yea, I need to make a doc appt but I keep putting it off saying I'm too busy with work. Doing that next week.

How's your shoulder doing? Did you see the doc?

**hellomycognomen** · 12-13-2015, 05:48 PM

What caused the shoulder injury to start with?

**NACH3** · 12-16-2015, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by bartman314

have you seen a doc or pt guy? you may want to get a diagnosis so you know what's going on and get a clearer picture. this is important for gauging the amount of rest that will really be needed and what if any workout mods you need to make to keep it healthy. for examply, i have severe arthritis in my shoulder and a blown cuff. i now incorporate pt rc exercises in my regular shoulder workout and stay away from militaries.

THIS ^^^ you may have a tear and it may obstruct your shoulder in a structural way if not taken care off and know exactly what the cause was and what its effects will be... Long term b/c anyone with real shoulder issues know that ROM is key and if pressing hurts(or not able to get straight overhead you'll develop muscle imbalances and then you'll be working to fix them before doing anything else that may cause a chain reaction in a negative way... Find the best docs and best PTs as surgery should be a last resort(it is the most freely moving joint in our bodies)! GL

**gettinbig30** · 12-25-2015, 06:05 PM

Had an MRI done on Monday, labrum tear? and slap tear. Going to meet with orthopedist next week. Surgery is needed. I've had shoulder problems ever since playing football in high school, and just got worse in time I guess from lifting.

**Chauffeur** · 12-25-2015, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

Had an MRI done on Monday, labrum tear? and slap tear. Going to meet with orthopedist next week. Surgery is needed. I've had shoulder problems ever since playing football in high school, and just got worse in time I guess from lifting.

Sorry to hear that man. I had a SLAP tear as well. Recovery was a real bitch.

Try to stay positive. Things will get better, it just takes a long time and a lot of hard work with a good physical therapist.

**gettinbig30** · 12-25-2015, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Chauffeur

Sorry to hear that man. I had a SLAP tear as well. Recovery was a real bitch. Try to stay positive. Things will get better, it just takes a long time and a lot of hard work with a good physical therapist.

my only problem is that I can't have surgery for a while, I got a job promotion and got shipped to the beautiful city of Charleston, so I can't take that kind of time off yet. Were you able to work? How long did it take till you had decent use of your arm. Till you got back to lifting?

**Chauffeur** · 12-26-2015, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

my only problem is that I can't have surgery for a while, I got a job promotion and got shipped to the beautiful city of Charleston, so I can't take that kind of time off yet. Were you able to work? How long did it take till you had decent use of your arm. Till you got back to lifting?

If it's going to be awhile until your surgery, it would be wise to take it very easy in the gym for the time being. Work on strengthening your rotator cuff in preparation for some serious atrophy post surgery. Legs and cardio are fine to do, but any upper body stuff can absolutely make your tear worse. The larger the tear the more extensive your repair will be, which will likely have an impact your recovery time and post recovery use of the arm.

How old are you? If you're an older fella, your surgeon may want to use a different surgical technique like a bicep tenodesis or tenotomy rather than the standard repair which uses anchors to secure the labrum to the glenohumeral joint.

Mine was repaired using anchors...a whole shit load of them. I probably could have avoided such an extensive repair if I didn't continue to make the injury worse by lifting, I have a lot of regrets about that.

I was not able to work for many months, but that's because I have a physically demanding job. I was placed on modified duty in an office position. If you work in an office or something that doesn't require any lifting, you'll likely be able to work within 2-3 weeks...but it will be in a limited capacity. You'll be in a sling for ~4 weeks and won't really be able to use that arm for much of anything. I was allowed to take the sling off to type at like 3 weeks.

The first couple of weeks post surgery you'll probably be pretty useless. I spent most of my time watching TV, taking pain killers, and trying to find a comfortable position in which to nap. I started very basic PT ~2 weeks after surgery.

Once out of the sling you'll be able to use your arm for basic day to day stuff, but nothing load bearing or that pushes your ROM. During the first 6-8 weeks of recovery your repair is very fragile and hasn't yet healed, so it's extremely important to not do anything outside of your PT protocol and risk re injury.

There are quite a few factors involved when estimating how long your recovery will be. Type/extent of surgery, age, commitment to PT, pre injury level of strength, etc.

A reasonable estimate is going to be somewhere around 6 months to be mostly recovered. It'll probably take longer than that to get full ROM back, but you should be pretty healed up by the 6 month mark. It's not unheard of to be mostly recovered by 4 months though. There are just a lot of variables which play into that.

I was back in the gym, lifting light weights by 6 months.

**gettinbig30** · 12-26-2015, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Chauffeur

If it's going to be awhile until your surgery, it would be wise to take it very easy in the gym for the time being. Work on strengthening your rotator cuff in preparation for some serious atrophy post surgery. Legs and cardio are fine to do, but any upper body stuff can absolutely make your tear worse. The larger the tear the more extensive your repair will be, which will likely have an impact your recovery time and post recovery use of the arm. How old are you? If you're an older fella, your surgeon may want to use a different surgical technique like a bicep tenodesis or tenotomy rather than the standard repair which uses anchors to secure the labrum to the glenohumeral joint. Mine was repaired using anchors...a whole shit load of them. I probably could have avoided such an extensive repair if I didn't continue to make the injury worse by lifting, I have a lot of regrets about that. I was not able to work for many months, but that's because I have a physically demanding job. I was placed on modified duty in an office position. If you work in an office or something that doesn't require any lifting, you'll likely be able to work within 2-3 weeks...but it will be in a limited capacity. You'll be in a sling for ~4 weeks and won't really be able to use that arm for much of anything. I was allowed to take the sling off to type at like 3 weeks. The first couple of weeks post surgery you'll probably be pretty useless. I spent most of my time watching TV, taking pain killers, and trying to find a comfortable position in which to nap. I started very basic PT ~2 weeks after surgery. Once out of the sling you'll be able to use your arm for basic day to day stuff, but nothing load bearing or that pushes your ROM. During the first 6-8 weeks of recovery your repair is very fragile and hasn't yet healed, so it's extremely important to not do anything outside of your PT protocol and risk re injury. There are quite a few factors involved when estimating how long your recovery will be. Type/extent of surgery, age, commitment to PT, pre injury level of strength, etc. A reasonable estimate is going to be somewhere around 6 months to be mostly recovered. It'll probably take longer than that to get full ROM back, but you should be pretty healed up by the 6 month mark. It's not unheard of to be mostly recovered by 4 months though. There are just a lot of variables which play into that. I was back in the gym, lifting light weights by 6 months.

I'm getting more and more depressed thinking about having to get this surgery. I don't know how to tell my boss that I need to take time off for surgery right after she gave me a job and then need me. I also hate not being able to lift. That's my life. Work and the gym. I don't drink or party, haven't drank in almost 5 years. I guess cardio it is. FML. I'm 31 by the way

**Chauffeur** · 12-26-2015, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

I'm getting more and more depressed thinking about having to get this surgery. I don't know how to tell my boss that I need to take time off for surgery right after she gave me a job and then need me. I also hate not being able to lift. That's my life. Work and the gym. I don't drink or party, haven't drank in almost 5 years. I guess cardio it is. FML. I'm 31 by the way

I totally understand how you're feeling man. It's a HUGE buzz kill to have this surgery. Unfortunately there's really no other fix for a labral tear, especially for somebody who wants to continue to lifting weights.

Some folks have success alleviating symptoms through PT alone, but that is generally only an option for very small tears and for people who aren't into lifting heavy shit as a hobby.

I don't know anything about your exact injury but you could always speak with your doctor about trying a conservative approach first.

**bass** · 12-27-2015, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

I'm getting more and more depressed thinking about having to get this surgery. I don't know how to tell my boss that I need to take time off for surgery right after she gave me a job and then need me. I also hate not being able to lift. That's my life. Work and the gym. I don't drink or party, haven't drank in almost 5 years. I guess cardio it is. FML. I'm 31 by the way

yes but the rewards are great. my right shoulder is good as new. I can't wait to fix my left shoulder.

**NACH3** · 12-28-2015, 10:57 AM

It sucks... No other words for it... It seems they've made good headway with labral tears(I tore mine in half and tore it in 3 other places(I have REAL sh!tty ROM - but have been able to still make good gains without further damaging it) and a total rev joint rep is in order now...

Find the best doc/PT etc and just work your arse off to getting that ROM back(that's where I fvked up and am paying for it with chronic pain now - some muscular imbalances etc but I'm in the gym and able to shift a decent amount of weight... But one thing I've learned it's awesome to be strong as shit but focus on your contractions and tighten up form work slower(TUT will help in this process) and really focus on MMC! I've actually lowered my working set weight for the time being(I'm priming starting today) and tbh - working lighter with really strict form will cause the weights to jump up on there own... Without injury... And as long as I look like I can lift more than 'someone' that's what really matters - tho our egos definitely get in the way!

**Proximal** · 12-28-2015, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Find the best doc/PT etc and just work your arse off to getting that ROM back

Definitely wise words. You are 31 and have all of the time in the world ahead of you - get this fixed and rehabilitated correctly. Don't rush back into any type of pressing or other heavy work until your ROM, your rotator cuff and all of the other scapular stabilization muscles are locked in & 100%. This time next year you will be as right as rain.

**gettinbig30** · 12-29-2015, 10:02 PM

Went orthopedist today. They are small tears and she said we are going to try to repair them with anti inflammatorys. I don't know how that works, gonna have to trust her I guess. Let's see how this works. Also, with the things going on in the world today, I try to explain to her about my pain and she looks at me like I'm "drug seeking". I wish she could feel it.

**Chauffeur** · 12-30-2015, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by gettinbig30

Went orthopedist today. They are small tears and she said we are going to try to repair them with anti inflammatorys. I don't know how that works, gonna have to trust her I guess. Let's see how this works. Also, with the things going on in the world today, I try to explain to her about my pain and she looks at me like I'm "drug seeking". I wish she could feel it.

This may sound harsh but...you need to find a new doctor.

A general ortho is not equipped to handle your recovery plan. This is evidenced by the fact that she thinks that a labral tear can be healed by the use of anti inflammatories. A labral tear will never heal on its own/without surgery. There is not enough blood flow to facilitate that level of healing. This is common knowledge among doctors who deal with these types of injuries.

You must see a shoulder specialist about this, a good one.

There is also no way for her to know if they are small tears or not. Even an MRI cannot even give you that level of accuracy. An MRI will detect the presence of a tear, but that's about it. The extent of the damage can only be accurately assessed by scoping the shoulder, or it's seen on the day of surgery.

To drive that point home, I was also told that my labral tear was small. When I woke up from surgery I was told that it ended up being the most extensive tear that my specialist had ever repaired. It required 7 anchors to secure it into place. Most people end up with 3 or 4.

This doctor is only going to delay your recovery.

**NACH3** · 12-30-2015, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Chauffeur

This may sound harsh but...you need to find a new doctor.

A general ortho is not equipped to handle your recovery plan. This is evidenced by the fact that she thinks that a labral tear can be healed by the use of anti inflammatories. A labral tear will never heal on its own/without surgery. There is not enough blood flow to facilitate that level of healing. This is common knowledge among doctors who deal with these types of injuries.

You must see a shoulder specialist about this, a good one.

There is also no way for her to know if they are small tears or not. Even an MRI cannot even give you that level of accuracy. An MRI will detect the presence of a tear, but that's about it. The extent of the damage can only be accurately assessed by scoping the shoulder, or it's seen on the day of surgery.

To drive that point home, I was also told that my labral tear was small. When I woke up from surgery I was told that it ended up being the most extensive tear that my specialist had ever repaired. It required 7 anchors to secure it into place. Most people end up with 3 or 4.

This doctor is only going to delay your recovery.

Very well said, Chauffeur!

I tore my labrum in half and 3 other tears(3-4 anchors/2-3 titanium screws and my L biceps tendon was used to repair the labrum, as well) this happened to me at a very young age - 17yrs old (considering a lifetime of chronic pain/& bursitis)... I found the Phillies surgeon and took his word and reputation for what it was(I should've looked into him more myself) was not happy with his surgeries(2) then another... 3 total still needing a total reverse joint replacement!

I could not agree more with the above and everyone whose had this type of injury or any shoulder injury knows ROM is they key... Find a sports medicine doc from a professional baseball team which will usually have more awareness of the underlying problem(anti inflamatories.... Really? They hardly helped after recovering lol) get a new doc as stated - it's all about your alignment with the shoulder joint etc - idk what coast your on but I've been on both... Jenson is one of the best(including replacements) in Bay Area! My uncle just got his replaced!

It's a lot of hard work but it surely can be worked around to a degree - you may or may not feel more grinding etc but know breaking through that scar tissue will be freeing yet scary(first time I heard my scar tissue break up that pop was so loud I grabbed my arm and wouldn't move it(do loud my w/o partner heard it across the gym and ran over... Needless to say it was the greatest relief of a 'pop' that I've ever had lol

**Proximal** · 12-31-2015, 11:51 AM

Second and third what is above due to many years professional knowledge/practice. Finding an orthopedic surgeon from a professional team is great, but if you cannot, find a larger orthopedic practice in which the different docs specialize in different joints. Their skill, like any other, comes from years of repeating the same surgeries hundreds of times.

Similar to NACH 3, I've had my share of difficulties, including hip replacements on each side and know what long term joint issues can do to you. With that said; at your age and assumably, decades of training ahead of you - do not let your shoulder deteriorate further - get this fixed, rehab it correctly and get back to training intelligently afterwards.

**NACH3** · 01-01-2016, 12:06 PM

This may sound harsh but...you need to find a new doctor.

^^ above - the longer you wait your condition will deteriorate(without proper blood flow, you could get frozen shoulder among many others) do not let this happen it'll just get worse and worse!

The night I dislocated my R shoulder from wrestling in HS... Our trainer wasn't strong enough to pop my shoulder back into place leaving more time and a trip to the ER(in which they said if you got here an hr ago your prognosis could've been better... We talking an hr - just think what days and wks of no PT first or anything could actually do?!?! Get a new doc! It's your life! And I wasn't able to lift consistent for a while(but that's due to other injuries) but after my first surgery I went back into it like an idiot proving I could still do 315 just coming back lol I was surely young and dumb(er). Lol

**gettinbig30** · 02-10-2016, 09:32 PM

So the anti inflammatorys didn't do anything at all. She gave me a prednisone shot, and it has helped significantly with range of motion but the pain is still there. Trying to keep surgery As a last resort

**bass** · 02-12-2016, 02:43 PM

don't wait too long. i am seeing a specialist for my left shoulder soon, can't wait to get that fixed so i can bench more weight without pain! keep us posted.

**22-250** · 02-13-2016, 02:58 PM

My shoulder is starting to hurt again as well. Still very minor but gets a little worse every week. Bass, if you are happy with your shoulder specialist, would you mine PMing me his/her info?