Decided DBOL only

[thekaydense]

bf is 25% plus no doubt. i wont trust your readings if its lower for 2 reasons. 1) its the internet and you could be lying, 2) your not trained with a caliper and probably dont know how to use them properly

[perfectbeast2001]

pointless cycle IMO. Diet and cardio need to be fixed before AS was bought into the equation. And Yes of course you need PCT.

[soulstealer]

You're so out of shape it isn't even funny.

You need to concentrate on your diet and living a healthier lifestyle before thinking drugs will help you in any way.

And yes your bodyfat is in the Obese range. 25%+

Well ya know your probably right... geee I guess I better go to the gym more than 6 days a week or do more then 5 30 minute sessions of cardio a week or wait maybe if I change my diet which consists of all LOW GI Carbs and lean meats with a serving of red a day or maybe my insulin spiking PWO shake should be changed..... hmmm I guess everything I'm doin is wrong.... and my expectation of a steroid increasing my nitrogen balance, cause me to retain water and helping shuttle in nutrients to my muscles as well as causing a higher usage of the nutrients consumed to build greater than normaly attainable muscle mass must be mistaken....... gee IBdmfkr enlighten me how should I change my lifestyle? =P

[soulstealer]

BTW Perfectbeast the reason I am doing this is to pyramid the dosage down with no PCT =P

[Kristofer68ss]

I am not here to bash.

But I will say this. I think there are better cycles for your current stats and goals.

Good Luck.... and i mean it...

[perfectbeast2001]

BTW Perfectbeast the reason I am doing this is to pyramid the dosage down with no PCT =P

I realise that. But tapering has been shown to be totally innefective in raising natty test levels. Tapering + correct PCT would be great as many believe tapering eases them out of a cycle but PCT would still be needed to return levels to baseline quickly. I dont understand why you would want to risk messing your hormones up for an experiment which has already been done by many others.

[perfectbeast2001]

Well ya know your probably right... geee I guess I better go to the gym more than 6 days a week or do more then 5 30 minute sessions of cardio a week or wait maybe if I change my diet which consists of all LOW GI Carbs and lean meats with a serving of red a day or maybe my insulin spiking PWO shake should be changed..... hmmm I guess everything I'm doin is wrong.... and my expectation of a steroid increasing my nitrogen balance, cause me to retain water and helping shuttle in nutrients to my muscles as well as causing a higher usage of the nutrients consumed to build greater than normaly attainable muscle mass must be mistaken....... gee IBdmfkr enlighten me how should I change my lifestyle? =P

If your diet was 100% then you would be leaner. Not flaming mate just stating fact.

[IBdmfkr]

geee I guess I better go to the gym more than 6 days a week That's called overtraining, it'll actually hinder gains. or do more then 5 30 minute sessions of cardio a week No need for that much cardio if you had a clue about how to manipulate your diet or wait maybe if I change my diet which consists of all LOW GI Carbs and lean meats with a serving of red a day or maybe my insulin spiking PWO shake should be changed..... You have no clue at all how many macros you are getting per meal/totals for the day or how many calories your body needs on a daily basis to reach homeostasis, so yes you have a lot of work to do on your diet to see results. hmmm I guess everything I'm doin is wrong.... PRETTY MUCH, if what you were doing was right then you wouldn't look like you do?and my expectation of a steroid increasing my nitrogen balance, cause me to retain water and helping shuttle in nutrients to my muscles as well as causing a higher usage of the nutrients consumed to build greater than normaly attainable muscle mass must be mistaken.......You must have a blurred idea of what steroids can actually achieve for you in such a short amount of time now that you've decided to all of a sudden start living a healthy lifestyle. gee IBdmfkr enlighten me how should I change my lifestyle? =P

If I explained it you wouldn't understand, and if you did happen to understand you probably wouldn't follow my advice.

Goodluck with your Dbol cycle I'm sure it'll be the magical pill you've always wanted.

[JACKKEDUP]

Ill be watching this.

[soulstealer]

Actualy IBdmfkr I dont expect a "Magic Pill" I am realistic with this test I have said so from the beginning.... I just started cardio recently and ramped up to 5 sessions A week I vary intensity and all sessions are post weight training I just love the way I feel After said sessions I work each muscle group 1x per week with usualy 6-12 working sets depending on muscle group and how I feel..... and I do know what I'm taking in... thats roughly 500-600g carbs per day 300g protein and 100g fat... which I fluctuate daily by varying protein source choices but that is roughly dead on...... and as far as over training......

Split
Sun: Chest/Calves/abs/intense interval cardio 22min
Monday: Back/Hams/med cardio 30min
Tuesday: Abs/light cardio 45min
Wed: Squats
Thursday: Shoulders/calves/med cardio 30min
Friday: Arms/Abs/Intense interval cardio 22min

Those are my workouts and they usualy run from 50-70mins

P.S. As one can see by this diet I am not concerned too much with BF% I am more concerned with muscular strength/size and cardio endurance

[soulstealer]

Oh and BTW IBdmfkr Learn to Identify SARCASM

Well ya know your probably right... geee I guess I better go to the gym more than 6 days a week or do more then 5 30 minute sessions of cardio a week or wait maybe if I change my diet which consists of all LOW GI Carbs and lean meats with a serving of red a day or maybe my insulin spiking PWO shake should be changed..... hmmm I guess everything I'm doin is wrong.... and my expectation of a steroid increasing my nitrogen balance, cause me to retain water and helping shuttle in nutrients to my muscles as well as causing a higher usage of the nutrients consumed to build greater than normaly attainable muscle mass must be mistaken....... gee IBdmfkr enlighten me how should I change my lifestyle? =P

It will help you in the long run...


AND GODDAMN how did this get so negative I dont want all this negativity just live and let live and I will post the results I get weather good or bad.........

Thats all I ask....

[IBdmfkr]

It doesn't even make sense to do cardio 5times/wk and eat 1000+calories in excess to your maintenance.

If you simply lift 4-5times/wk with High-Intensity it will raise your heart rate for long enough period of time to give you a good cardiovascular workout along with building muscle at the same time. No reason for the cardio.

List a days diet if you'd like and we'll help critique. At your size and Bodyfat percentage you have no reason to be taking in close to 5K calories/day, anabolics would best be used for leaning out IMO while staying calorie deficient.

Just trying to help, don't get so defensive.. Sarcasm or not isn't going to get you in the shape I'm sure you want to be but knowledge will.

[soulstealer]

Well Cool... but to answer that I love doing cardio I love bein able to handle higher resistance on the bike or to flat out run a mile at an incline(though hard on my knees)...dont know what it is about it It makes me feel like a million all the time....... So thats Why I eat all those KCals so I do go killing myself with the cardio now as for the diet....

Meal1
8:00am 3 servings oatmeal 6 Xlarge egg whites 2 yokes
1 AST 32x multi 2 fishoil caps

10:30 PWO Shake 50g whey protein 30g dextrose 20g maltodextrin

Meal2
11:00am 3 servings rice(Xtra long grain par boiled white) 1 serving beans 40-50g protein from Tuna/chicken/Turkey..... and 1-2 servings veggies

Meal3:
2:00pm 3 servings rice 1 serving beans 40-50g protein from tuna/chicken/turkey 1-2 servings veggies....

Meal4:
5:00pm 3 servings rice 1 serving beans 40-50 g protein from tuna/chicken/turkey/beef

Meal5:
8:00pm 3 servings rice 1 serving beans 40-50g protein from tuna/chicken/turkey/beef

Meal 6
11:00pm 40g whey protein 2 servings skim milk 2 servings fish oil
(sometimes substituted for steak...)

and thats pretty much it... tends to fluctuate... as in I might not eat a serving of beans every meal or I might not eat veggies each of those meals or might every meal..... Depending on my mood Also my BMR with my workouts ends up being around 4500 Cals/day based on my calc....

P.S. For cutting I think the Diet is pretty solid the way it is just remove the milk and all the rice after meal 3 and add some more veggies.....

[MartyMcFly]

I think I would quit caring about muscle so much and start running in the a.m on an empty stomach. That plus a good diet will drop the weight off in a hurry. I would do that ASAP.

[soulstealer]

Just adding that PWO Cardio has started to lean me out...... I wasnt doing any cardio before, just lifting..I have been lifting on and off for the the past 8 years started around HS Football......most recently work took up almost 80 hours a week and I fell off the wagon=P But I have been back training for 9mo and just started doing cardio beginning of last month..... My goals have very little to do with being lean at this very moment if everyone would read why I am doing this.... just as a test for my and the boards knowledge and to see how I react to dbol .... then there would be less attacking statements =P

But just to calm the minds of those who so adamantly believe I should be cutting... I plan on it...... a reduction in my carbs the addition of some morning cardio very light at that and moving my weight training to night time...but I plan to run clen and enth... but am still debating t3..... or a kicker for that cycle....... if would refer to
Possible to Gain mass then cut on same cycle?
I was seeking some advice on an idea for a cycle I had.........

[stvn21_]

keep it up dude, interested in results. i agree on the cardio in the morning though but everybody should keep the negatvitiy out. hes been warned, its his body, hes posting a log of his experience and i and im sure many others are curious

[soulstealer]

keep it up dude, interested in results. i agree on the cardio in the morning though but everybody should keep the negatvitiy out. hes been warned, its his body, hes posting a log of his experience and i and im sure many others are curious

Thnx stvn21 finely some positivity

Anyway.... Back/hamies today... had a great workout........
weighed in at 262lbs so weight is seemingly pretty steady...
But Strength is going up...

[dhriscerr]

I dont think there is negativity in the thread because people dont want you to succeed or because they dont think you will, I think the main reason for negativity, is because there are alot of people that look over these threads that are just browsing this site, and when they see someone with 25%+ body fat, not doing PCT and other things that are obviously dangerous, then they tend to follow suit. Maybe your experience yeilds you alot of results and I really hope it does, but when someone else with 25%+ BF sees your results and jumps on AAS when he shouldn't be using them yet, and runs into all sorts of complications he then blames it on AAS and it fuels the media's portrayal of Steroids . And this is one thing that EXPERIENCED, and SAFE users do not like. So maybe it will work and I really truly wish you all the best, but I think its your ignorance and attitude and utter disregard for saftey that gives steroids a bad name. People like you are the gas the media poors on the fire.

[soulstealer]

I dont think there is negativity in the thread because people dont want you to succeed or because they dont think you will, I think the main reason for negativity, is because there are alot of people that look over these threads that are just browsing this site, and when they see someone with 25%+ body fat, not doing PCT and other things that are obviously dangerous, then they tend to follow suit. Maybe your experience yeilds you alot of results and I really hope it does, but when someone else with 25%+ BF sees your results and jumps on AAS when he shouldn't be using them yet, and runs into all sorts of complications he then blames it on AAS and it fuels the media's portrayal of Steroids . Wow talk about an attack and I thaught we were through with this.... well damn dhriscerr I am not someones Parental figure what I choose to do is my business I just choose to share those results if some fool starts munching down 100mg of dbol a day for 20 weeks or some crap on day 1 of going to the gym thats not my problem. And this is one thing that EXPERIENCED, and SAFE users do not like. So maybe it will work and I really truly wish you all the best, but I think its your ignorance First of all what ignorance I know what I am getting myself into and to state a knowledgable person who accepts the risks is ignorant... well wouldnt that be an ignorant statement? and attitude and utter disregard for saftey that gives steroids a bad name. First of all I had never stated I didnt have nolvadex on hand..... and I never stated I wasnt taking milk thistle even though its a low dose
People like you are the gas the media poors on the fire.

Just figured I'd straighten out your statement.....

But thanks for the encouragement

[dhriscerr]

Hey just laying it out there on why your recieving so much negativity, GGallin can attest to the same thing, everyone jumped all over him for starting at a high body fat, but people are still giving him encouragement, I truly don't want to attack you, and you are right, what you do is your choice and no one can stop you. And your not someones parental figure, and if they do chose to take 100mg of dbol for 20 weeks isn't your problem, but if you like other AAS user want the negativity portrayed by the media to stop or slow down, then education is the key, this site is up for people to talk about safe use of steroids and most try to preach safe use. Also about your statement on ignorance.

The definitoin of Ignorance is: Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions

Is not your lack of knowlege that I was commenting on it was your lack of desire to improve the efficiency of your cycle.

True enough some powerlifters and strong men and others get away with running AAS at your body fat with no big issues, and It can be done. I was just telling you why you are facing so much hostility, take it with a grain of salt if you want too, your not going to listen any way as you already have your desires in your head. I wont comment any further on your thread accept as encouragement in reaching your goals. Good Luck and I truly mean that.

[soulstealer]

Then let me just say thank you for your concern and I appretiate your encouragement and am very glad that we can see eye to eye dhriscerr....BTW Good luck on your cycle as well.....

[chest6]

What happened to the days when people would listen to the advice given to them??

[Vinlander]

Then let me just say thank you for your concern and I appretiate your encouragement and am very glad that we can see eye to eye dhriscerr....BTW Good luck on your cycle as well.....

I think it's terrific that you're putting your efforts into the gym and a weight training regimen, but I do think your goals are a bit sophomoric.

Please take this with the least amount of offense, as I am stating an opinion based on experience. Dianabol -only cycles work, but for a specific goal: they provide an excellent short-term strength boost in order to lengthen the amount of time one is able to spend on their reps. This is probably the ONLY application Dianabol-only cycles will ever have, as the drawbacks are far too many once off-cycle.

With your (dangerously) high bodyfat content, it would be well worth looking into a proper diet consisting of nutritious vegetables and a more cardiovascular workout until you've slimmed down to the mid-teens (15-16% bodyfat). Any time before this and Dianabol (and the more intense workouts) will put unnecessary strain on an already overworked heart and cause irreversable damage.

I think you are on a too much/too fast binge and trying to take shortcuts to where you want to be. Believe me: Your health and well-being are NOT worth trading off for a little extra size in your arms. Slow down a bit, hold off on the AAS and consult a good nutritionist for about six months to cut down that bodyfat and cholesterol before dabbling in steroids .

[zodiac666]

good luck on this cycle but before your next one why not lose the bodyfat first? its not near as hard as you think, ALL it takes is dedcation, don't cheat on your diet and don't cheat on your training and you can get whatever body your genetics allow. i know you say you aren't worried about being lean but i don't believe that for a second. if you got your bodyfat under control you would feel and look a million times better, you'll be able to actually see the gains you get off of your cycle, and your cardio endurance will improve as you get rid of the useless weight.

[soulstealer]

I think it's terrific that you're putting your efforts into the gym and a weight training regimen, but I do think your goals are a bit sophomoric.

Please take this with the least amount of offense, as I am stating an opinion based on experience. Dianabol -only cycles work, but for a specific goal: they provide an excellent short-term strength boost in order to lengthen the amount of time one is able to spend on their reps. This is probably the ONLY application Dianabol-only cycles will ever have, as the drawbacks are far too many once off-cycle.

With your (dangerously) high bodyfat content, it would be well worth looking into a proper diet consisting of nutritious vegetables and a more cardiovascular workout until you've slimmed down to the mid-teens (15-16% bodyfat). Any time before this and Dianabol (and the more intense workouts) will put unnecessary strain on an already overworked heart and cause irreversable damage.

I think you are on a too much/too fast binge and trying to take shortcuts to where you want to be. Believe me: Your health and well-being are NOT worth trading off for a little extra size in your arms. Slow down a bit, hold off on the AAS and consult a good nutritionist for about six months to cut down that bodyfat and cholesterol before dabbling in steroids.

Vinlander as I have said many times my goals are exactly this if for some reason you find that sophomoric please enlighten me as to how?

[/QUOTE=Soulstealer] I am not saying Hellmask is wrong or anything he the man.... but we already know if I take a pct I will get that What I wanna see is if its possible to taper off and have my endocrine system recoop solo.... and see what kinda gains I get....

As For Tbone1975 same answer... But I have no fear of needles have used them in the past...... and planning a nice Dbol /cyponate with proper pct cycle... just wann see how I fair
Edit/Delete Message[/QUOTE]

[soulstealer]

good luck on this cycle but before your next one why not lose the bodyfat first? its not near as hard as you think, ALL it takes is dedcation, don't cheat on your diet and don't cheat on your training and you can get whatever body your genetics allow. i know you say you aren't worried about being lean but i don't believe that for a second. if you got your bodyfat under control you would feel and look a million times better, you'll be able to actually see the gains you get off of your cycle, and your cardio endurance will improve as you get rid of the useless weight.

Thanks for the encouragement.... but just for your info I dont cheat I specificaly take in enough cals to support my body weight as of now and I was until consuming a minor surplus, its not as though I dont know how to loose the weight that just wasnt my goal but with proper macro manipulation and a basic kcal in kcal out formula one can manipulate there bodies anyway they want.... and I plan on cutting in about a month or so..... I again am merely doing this for the knowledge......

[IBdmfkr]

You actually believe 4-5K calories is "just enough to support your bodyweight"?

lol Not quite bro, first you are way over on the endomorph side of things so your metabolism is fairly slow to begin with, I think you enjoy eating is what the problem is and you're not really ready to give up food to acquire a decent looking body.

I'd bet your maintenance caloric needs are in the range of 2600-2800/day, possibly 3200-3400 on training days but nowhere near 4000K+.

Problem is you truly think you know what you're doing and don't want the advice of others. Best of luck on your cycle, this should be interesting to watch.

[soulstealer]

BMR=66 + ( 13.7 x weight in kilos ) + ( 5 x height in cm ) - ( 6.8 x age in years)

To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

1. If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
2. If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
3. If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
4. If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
5. If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

If my base BMR is 2500 as per any formula I have found to calculate it and the most prominent above then if we factor in my activity level

Since I workout 6 days a week intensely I use a 1.7 multiplyer....and I will leave off the .025 since I only work out 6 days per week =P

we get a figure of 4250/day which is about what I take in every day.......so that would make you wrong..... you know when you are incorrect...

P.S. at 3500 Cals a day I would be in a deficit of roughly 800 cals which would be as I noted above my diet if I removed my carbs after meal 3 and removed my milk at night.......

[soulstealer]

BTW I wanna say this thread go the response that I expected and has truly brightened up my day...... I love these little arguments they are exciting and I get to pitch rebuttals multiple times a day..... And I offer a challenge and that is to review the data and prove me wrong......

[Snrf]

BTW I wanna say this thread go the response that I expected and has truly brightened up my day...... I love these little arguments they are exciting and I get to pitch rebuttals multiple times a day..... And I offer a challenge and that is to review the data and prove me wrong......

shut up you retard, you're the one running a dbol cycle with no PCT. Where have been your rebuttals? You havent given one, all you've done is say "well i'm gonna do it anyway" Hellmask is one of the most experienced oral-cycle people around and you think you know better?

newsflash buddy: you're fat, out of shape, obviously don't know what you're doing and ignorant.

[soulstealer]

shut up you retard, you're the one running a dbol cycle with no PCT. Where have been your rebuttals? You havent given one, all you've done is say "well i'm gonna do it anyway" Hellmask is one of the most experienced oral-cycle people around and you think you know better? Actualy Snrf if you were to read the thread you would realize I agree with hellmask in the basic facts of running a cycle oral or otherwise.... infact my reason for doing this is because of all the conflict on this site and the fact that I wanna see for myself if thats too much for you then suggest you find a new hobby, you know other then lashing out at people in an emotional rage

newsflash buddy: you're fat, out of shape, obviously don't know what you're doing and ignorant.

Negativity

[Snrf]

Negativity

you're an idiot

[IBdmfkr]

I won't even argue with your above "formula".

Could you please write me a diet in your spare time because at that rate I must need around 6K calories to keep my weight considering I weigh 40lbs less than you and have around 40lbs more muscle.

Btw, when trying to calculate your BMR when you're extremely obese like yourself you'd want to lean your numbers more towards the low side considering carrying 50lbs of fat isn't helping to speed your metabolism, also you put yourself at 1.725 when you should be in the lower bracket considering the majority of the day you're probably sitting in a office and not vigorously active like the chart suggest.

[soulstealer]

BTW Figured I'd give an update.... I am 264 lbs strength is increasing

Bench went to 275 for 3 sets of 5
Squat went to 275 for 3 sets of 6
Dead lift is at 355 for 3 sets of 6

Have been lowering my reps a little....

and I feel good overall

[goose]

You sound like a tough strong guy,yet you are scared to inject yourself,LOL.Eyes wide shut.As my trainer says,if you talk the talk you better walk the walk your going to get knocked out.Good luck.

[Johanpalmgren667]

did you use any PCT?

[Kristofer68ss]

its this simple.

Just the wrong cycle for his current stats.

If it was me, i would be consuming around 3000 cals a day. Lean beef, brown rice, eggs, chicken, tuna, fish, etc. 1.5 gallons of h20 a day. A sensible cheat meal every fourth day or so.

for a minimum of 16 weeks, then an evaluation, and start another 16 weeker. Until bodyfat was somewhere between 15 and 20 %. ....

oh well, good luck soul.

pct goes without saying, unless your name is forrest gump.

[soulstealer]

I would like to point out that its a misconception that plain brown rice has a low GI infact its the length of the grain and if the rice is parboiled to remove some of the high GI starch..... so a long grain parboiled white rice has a lower GI then just xtra long grain brown rice.... and because I cant find parboiled Xtra long grain brown rice thats what I eat... just to correct your assumption that all brown rice is better for you...

[soulstealer]

You sound like a tough strong guy,yet you are scared to inject yourself,LOL.Eyes wide shut.As my trainer says,if you talk the talk you better walk the walk your going to get knocked out.Good luck.

If you read earlier I am not afraid just running cycle for experience.... In fact I am planning an enth and drol cycle with HCG /aromasin /nolva for pct in month or two.... again I am just running this for experience

[Hellmaskbanned]

If you read earlier I am not afraid just running cycle for experience.... In fact I am planning an enth and drol cycle with HCG/aromasin/nolva for pct in month or two.... again I am just running this for experience

That's the PCT I use.