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  1. #1
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle

    I posted my log on another website but i'm not getting enough feedback. I'm copy and paste it on here and hopfully get some input. Thanks in advance for your input. This site rocks.

  2. #2
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 5th

    First off this is my first cycle on AAS so I guess My cycle is gonna be as follows:

    week 1 1000mgs of test e
    60mgs of tbol ed
    week 2-7 60mgs of tbol ed
    week 2-12 500mgs of test e

    To answer your question, yes i'm frontloading. There are plently of logs for ppl doing 500mgs of test e cycles, but i haven't seen any with ppl frontloading. Why do i wanna frontload, well check out my post in the steriod cycles section marked "frontloading." After you read that I think you'll get it. Anyway I'll tell you what happened today and I'll close with my stats.

    Day 1
    This morning I tried to do my frist injection ever without success. I couldn't get the damn test to draw into the syringe! I went thru 2 1ml amps and I ran out of time. I had to get to school. Don't get me wrong i'm not giving up, I really wanted to do this. So I called our friend "bigrcs" and got some pointers. He told me what I already knew but I was off on the times. He told me to heat the amp to thin out the test. Now I tired it this morning but i only heated it for about 30secs and "bigrcs" told me i had to do it for 5mins. Ok no problem. When I came home from school around 1:30 i got straight to work. I got a cup of hot tap water, filled it about 1/3 full and put the amp in it and let it soak for about 5mins. When I went to check it, the water had already gotten cold. So I did it again, lol. This time I micowaved the water a lil hotter and took it out about 4mins later, perfect nice and warm. I cut the amp and started to draw. Another tip bigrcs gave me is that he said it takes pretty long to draw the test into the syringe about a min. This morning i went WAY too fast. Anyway with the heated test i started to draw incredibly slow, with no problem. So I was good to go. I decided to inject in my glute with a 23Gx1.5", everybody else uses that size, gotta be for a reason right. Bigrcs told me i only have to go about an inch in. Well, it took a lil force to puncture the skin but after i did i could barely feel it. It quickly went the full 1.5" in. Lemme tell you turned around like that injecting into your glute is kinda hard. My back was hurt and I had to readjust my hand quite a few times, and it still didn't really hurt. Anyway I injected in pretty slow as directed without problems. Pulled the needle out had barely a hint of blood wiped it away and was done. I don't believe i was so nervous about that. For all the new ppl going to inject.....its not bad at all, just man up and do it you'll survive. After I drew the needle out I massaged the injection site. This is something my doctor told me years ago that i figured i'd try. She said that if you massage the are and rub slightly you move the compound you just injected reduce soreness. I figured what the hell right? So I massaged it for about 10mins. And now its almost 5 hrs later and I can't even tell i injected there. I wonder what tomorrows gonna be like. Oh i also took 20mgs of tbol the same time i injected.

    About 10mins after i injected for some reason my balls felt warm? Its probably in my mind but something was different. I went to the bathroom about 10mins after that and felt that my balls were hanging lower? I quickly decided that i'm too unsecure about it and theres no way i can feel the test kick in 20mins after the injection. Ten mins afer that my muscles felt hard and pumped up. I have to admit i was worried because it felt the same way after i took dbol . I had a bad experience with dbol. I bought tbol and got sent dbol. I finally decided it was dbol after about 7 days and 8lbs later. Anyway because of that i switched sources. The source i have now is awesome and i'm convinced that my source wouldn't do that, plus this is the first time i've taken tbol so how do i know how it reacts, right? So I'm gonna continue and pay close attention to my weight. As far as dosage goes i'm gonna try and take another 250mgs of test e and 20mgs of tbol tonight. I might not be able to, I might have to wait til tomorrow after school. I don't know how close you have to take the injections when you frontload. I wanna say its within the same day but i'm not positive. I have to reread that post, I have a bad memory. Anyway my total for today should be 500mgs of test e and 40mgs of tbol, tomorrow it'll be 60mgs.

    Now for my workout. An hour passed from injecting and i couldn't wait to get to the gym for two reasons, #1 to see if theres any difference (which there shouldn't be this quick), and #2 i'm changing my workout schedule. I made another post asking how to change my schedule. I didn't get a clear answer so i did a lil more asking around and come up with this:

    flat dumbell press: 60lbsx10, 70lbsx10, 80lbsx6
    incline pec-dec flys (machine): 90lbs x10, 100lbs x10, 110lbsx10, 110lbsx10
    decline bench press (machine): 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10
    dumbell raise: 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7
    military press (machine): 25lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 35lbsx10
    barbell shrug: 60lbsx10, 70lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbs x10
    cable pulldown (with rope attachment) 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 70lbsx10
    tricep pulldown (triangle attachment) 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10

    Couple of things i like to note. The shoulder/trap excercises were a first for me. I was trying to see where I was as you can see with the weight changes. After the gym i wasn't sore, which to me means i didn't train hard enough. Next time i work this muscle group the military press and the shrugs will have added weight. Secondly the triceps excercises are less, yes i know. Those two excercises are on different machines. I feel that they really isolate the tricep. After my workout my triceps felt blasted so i feel it was successful. As time goes on i'll add another excercise, then i'll add more weight of course. Again this is a beginning point to see where am at, and i will be adjusting in the upcoming workouts.

    Honestly i'm tired of writing hopefully this is a good start with the log. I'm really not that good as these but i'm trying to be as descriptive as i can. If theres any questions, anything more you wanna know, or if you have input, by all means lemme here it. I'm always open to ideas suggestions and of course COMPLIENTS. Just saying. Here are my stats as of Day 1 along with a couple of pics. Thanks for reading this long post, lol:

    25yrs
    5'7
    167lbs
    13-14%BF?

    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle-cyclestart.jpg

    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle-cyclestart2.jpg
    Last edited by jc95605; 06-08-2008 at 11:25 PM.

  3. #3
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 7th
    Workout Day 2
    Cycle Day 3

    Weight from 167lbs to 170lbs

    Ok first I'll talk about the compounds and then i'll move onto the excercises.

    Ok, since injecting my balls kinda hurt when their not glowing, lol. Its not real bad pain just noticable. Kind of like the way you feel about an hour after you get kicked in the balls. Bad times. Today at the gym I did biceps and abs. I was gonna do back too but i didn't do enough research on excercies. I know check minus. I gotta say I felt pretty pumped up. Alot like when i took dbol . I'm assuming thats the tbol i feel. I know tbol doesn't bloat like dbol but their from the same parent compound so i would assume they feel similar. The ball pain/discomfort i'm assuming is from the test. Another thing i have to note is that my endurance was higher today, had more stamina. My muscles didn't feel tired longer. Heres a look at what i did today:

    Hammer Curls: 25lbsx10, 25lbsx10, 25lbsx10
    Alternate Bicep curls: 25lbsx10, 25lbsx10, 25lbsx10
    Cable curls (left arm only): 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10
    Cable curls (lbs each arm) 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10
    Knee Raises: 25, 25, 25
    Combined Crunch (machine): 40lbsx20,40lbsx20,40lbsx20
    Ab Crunches (Ab roller machine): 20, 20, 20

    This was a pretty short workout. Now for the weird stuff. After the bicep curls i wasn't tired. I usually am. The reason why i think thats weird is because I just switched to those excercises about 2 workouts ago at 20lbs. Last workout i went up to 25lbs, and now today i wasn't tired with 25lbs? Its impossible that i'm seeing strength gains already. I mean i did 2 injections each at 250mgs of test e on the same day theres no way, or is there? I kept going, and started on the cable curls. I still wasn't tired, so, as you can see i added another set. Still wasn't exhausted. I think its possible to move up to 50lbs each arm. I might do another workout b4 i do that, but it shouldn't take longer than that. Now i didn't it was possible for me to notice results this soon, even while frontloading. It just so happens that i found a test e cycle that somebody frontloaded. Wouldn't you know it, after I start my log. I never win. Anyway, That person said that he "felt the test kick in the beginning of the 2nd week." Well, assuming thats true could i be feeling it kick in already? Maybe cuz I frontloaded/doubled the test, and taking tbol with it its noticably faster? What do you guys think? Any opinions on that? I think its possible because my weight already jumped 3lbs in 3 days? Usually ppl that don't frontload a 500mgs a week cycle gained 5 or 6lbs at 15days. I read that on 4 different ppl. I'm gained alot faster, is that due to the added test or the tbol? Maybe both? I'm gonna hold off on the adex but that bottle is looking better and better. Anyway I need some opinions on the questions i asked. Please give me some input. Thats all i can think of now. All and all i think ice cube was right when he said "Today Was a Good Day."

  4. #4
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Today

    So what do you guys think? Think its possible for me to notice the test this quick. this will be the third day after i injected my first dose. I guess we'll really notice after monday when i inject again huh. I was just curious to see if this was possible or if i was losing my mind.

    One thing that i wanna note today is that i think the tbol is definately kicking in. I say that because a common side effect of tbol is lethargy. Well, I've been sleeping all day, lol. I just can't get any energy today. Normally in the morning when i go to school i take my caffine/ephedra, I didn't take it today but its usually not this big of a difference. Anyway tomorrow I should be injecting again and hopefully i'll get back from the doctors office early enough so i can go to the gym too. We'll see wish me luck

  5. #5
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 9th

    Well my doctor appointment lasted longer than it was supposed so now i have to go to the gym tomorrow. I'm thinking of swiching my workout back to chest/biceps/triceps. I feel that works better for me. The past few days i've been feeling bloated. Again i'm attributing this to the tbol. Now when i took dbol awhile back ago i felt similar. I chose tbol this time cuz its supposed to have lil to no bloating. Well, i'm blaming the tbol because it comes from the same parent compound as dbol so i think its possible. I thought i might have got sold dbol AGAIN! Today i felt bloated again but my stomach was flatter? I say that because whenever my weight moves i seem to notice it at my stomach right away. Today however it was flatter so maybe it is tbol. Anyway I still fell pumped up and can hardly wait to go to the gym tomorrow. I took my 2nd injection of test today of 500mgs. This will make it the 2nd 500mg test injection this week, so it'll be the last one for the first week. I know my size is getting bigger because i go to a auto tech school and we have to wear those collared workshirts. I really noticed it today that my arms couldn't fit in the damn shirt. I mean I was sitting in my chair and my sleeves looked like there were painted on! Is it possible that i gained muscle this quick or is it water? I'm leaning toward water. For those of you who've talked to me b4 no that I HATE bloating. So because of that i'm thinking of starting my adex. I wanna wait til the end of the week and see where my weight is and i'll determine whether or not its water weight or actually muscle. When i go to the gym tomorrow and gain another 3lbs in a total of 6lbs in 5 days you think i shbuld start the adex? I wanna keep the bloating down and build solid muscle. Looking for input. Thanks guys.

  6. #6
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Workout Day 3
    Cycle Day 5

    When I weighed myself today i was at 171lbs. Up another pound since last workout. Thats makes it a total weight gain of 4lbs. I'm sure this early in the game its the water retention so now we should see some lean gains hopefully. Today i did chest/bis/tris. I switched back to this rountine, i just like it better. All and all the excercises seemed easier. First i did chest for the dumbell flat bench i did 80lbs x 8 up 2 reps already. Ten is that magic number, once i hit that i move up in weight. At this rate it'll be next workout! The other chest excercises seemed about the same. As for my biceps they seem to be getting bigger. Today was the 2nd or 3rd time i used a 25lbs dumbell for my hammer curls and alternate curls. This too felt easier. I was moving the weight faster. However because of that on my 2nd set i kinda pulled the side of my bicep a lil. Nothing that bad, but just enough for me to feel it. I should be good by next workout. Anyway I think I'll do my bicep rountine one more time b4 i move up in weight. I can hardly wait. I wanna push the weight up but as we all know if we do it too early we could pull a muscle and put us out of comission, and we can't have that while on cycle now can we?
    Last edited by jc95605; 06-10-2008 at 07:05 PM.

  7. #7
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Ok sorry, i haven't been updating my log but i got sick. Wouldn't you know it? Figure a week after i start my cycle i get sick. At first i thought it was a allergic reaction to the new meds i got but it turn out it was a cold. I've been trying to OD on vitamin C these past couple of days. I've been taking about 5,000gs of vitamin C and i feel alot better. I'm gonna keep drowning myself with vit C and hopefully i can go to the gym tomorrow and have a decent workout. Even with being sick i do look more cut and harder. I dunno if this is contributed to the test or the tbol, either way who cares! Its working!

  8. #8
    92whitelx's Avatar
    92whitelx is offline Associate Member
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    I would say you are feeling the tbol right now, not the Test

  9. #9
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    I didn't think the tbol would kick in this early. Maybe its working faster because i frontloaded the test? I dunno but now we should start seeing some gains. When i feel better i'm going for it! Me being out of the gym while on cycle really pisses me off hopefully i can make up for it. Thanks for your input 92whitelx.....Civic?


    YA!!! Lucky Number 400! About time.

  10. #10
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 15th
    Workout Day 5
    Cycle Day 10

    Weight from 167lbs to 174lbs as of today.

    First of all doing the math i'm about a week and a half into my cycle and i feel great. I'm still getting over my cold too. Here was my workout i did today. Keep in mind the excercises in red are new advancements.

    Flat db bench: 60lbsx10, 70lbsx10, 80lbsx9, 85lbsx7
    Incline pec-dec flys (machine): 90lbsx10, 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx10
    Decline bench (machine): 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10,150lbsx10
    Db hammer curls: 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10
    Alternate bicep curls: 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10
    Tricep pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10
    Tricep pulldown (triangle attachment): 45lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 60lbsx10

    Ok now we get to talk about it. Like i've posted before i've been sick for the past 3days or so, so basically that means i've been sitting on the couch on my ass fighting for life. It pisses me off when ppl (myself especially) get sick while on cycle cause i kind of feel cheated in a way. So, because of that when i somehow had the energy to go to the gym today i assumed my strength would go down, and that i would have to hit the weights harder for the time off i've had from being sick. In my amazement most of my exercises went up as you can see. I can't explain this. I was shocked, actually still am. Could it be the test is kickin in already, or is it the tbol? Was the 3lbs i gained these past few days from fat, bloat, or muscle? Well according to the information that i read on frontloading test (i can give you the link if you want it) my test should be at 96% effectiveness, for lack of a better term. Then looking onto my gains today, and with the 4days i took off from the gym i'm pretty sure its kicked in now. I'm thinking those 3lbs are muscle gains (at least I hope so). Guess that posting was right huh? I think this is incrediable especailly considering i'm only 10days into my cycle (1.5 weeks). As of now my plan is to run the cycle 12wks, i'm considering running it for 14wks, but we'll see where my supplies are at that point. I also plan on posting updated pics in about a week maybe two to get some feedback. Thanks again for reading and any feedback is greatly appreicated.

    JJ

  11. #11
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 21st
    Cycle Day 16

    Ok I know i haven't been writing in the log and alot of you are anxiously awaiting for the updates but you wouldn't believe what happened. Last thursday (19th) when i went to the gym I pulled a damn muscle. I had just started my workout and i was doing the flat db bench. I was on the superset (85lbs) and when i went to lift up weight for some reason i used my legs instead of my arms and shoulders. At first it didn't hurt it was just there in the back ground, so i finished the set. 85lbsx8, i went up a rep too. I felt I could of done more but my shoulder was starting to bother me and i didn't wanna push it too hard and hurt my shoulder again (previous injury). Anyway when i got up and walked to the pec-dec machine thats when i started to hurt. The way the bench is i was right where the pulled muscle was. So I decided to leave then. I'd rather leave the gym with a hurt muscle rather than try and get thru it while hurt and probably tear something. I plan on going tomorrow and trying again. I feel like i'm ready.

    One thing that i wanted to note is that my chest and arms feel harder. I'm thinking that the tbol still. I looked in the mirrior today and noticed that my arms were shaped different. Different as in bigger and more defined, which i was really happy about. I didn't expect because of last thursday's injury i left the gym early, I didn't even get to my arm workout, so the size that i'm feeling is from the last workout about a week ago now. How awesome is that. Also my chest is starting to shape up i believe, especially the lower chest. I'll workout another week and upload some new pics to get some feedback.

  12. #12
    uncgboro's Avatar
    uncgboro is offline Associate Member
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    keep up the log. Good improvements. Keep them in red just like that, it is easy to see the increases.

  13. #13
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you, will do.

  14. #14
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 22nd
    Cycle Day 17
    Workout Day 6

    Ok i'm not counting the last workout as a workout day because i had to leave. Now with that being said heres what happened today. Again anything new is highlighted in red:

    Flat db bench: 65lbsx10, 75lbsx10, 85lbsx8
    pec-dec flys (machine): 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx10
    Decline bench (machine): 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10
    Hammer Curls: 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10
    Alternate Bicep Curls: 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10
    Cable Curls: 40lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 40lbsx10
    Cable Curls (left-arm only): 30lbsx10, 30lbsx8, 30lbsx8
    Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10
    Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment): 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10

    Ok as usual i start with the flat db bench. When i was doing the 85lbs last time is when i pulled my muscle, well no problems today! When i hit 8reps i felt as if i could do more so i went for it. Well, my ind wanted to but my shoulder didn't needless to say i hit failure so i'm still gonna say i did 8 reps instead of 9. The 9th rep wasn't clean so i won't count that. So because my shoulder gave way on that last rep and i was hurting. Not bad enough to leave but noticable. On the the decline bench machine is when i noticed it again. My shoulder was hurting pretty good with that excercise, so because of that i only did 2 sets on that excercise. I wanted to save some for the arms because last time i didn't get to do any arm excercises. Again because my shoulder was hurting it made the hammer curls interesting, lol. Like i said i wasn't gonna leave like i had to last time. I felt cheated cuz i couldn't do arms last time so i was sure in hell gonna do it today. I managed to get thru all 3 sets, i had to take a lil longer break in between than usual but i did it and didn't lose any strength. So that was awesome! The alternate curls went fine. Last time i workouted my arms i didn't do cable curls, so this time i threw them in. I even pushed a lil harder and lifted 50lbs, a first. I could probably do sets of those at 7reps but today i was doing 10reps. I think i might switch it around a lil and lift it at 50lbsx7 for 3 sets. As we all know more weight and less reps leads to building size. I think my arms are toned pretty good so i kinda wanna focus my attention on building size now, hence the hammer curls, i hear those really help for building size thats why i swtiched to that. Any input on this? I would appreciate it. My tricep excercises went on fine.

    Like i said last time my arms and chest have been feeling harder. Well during and after my workout today my arms felt huge, it was great! I was kinda curious to see if they grew, they usually don't feel this big. If that makes any sense. Anyway after my workout and protein shake i measure my arms. Today i measured 15.5", a .25" improvement over when i started just over 3wks ago. Not bad. My goal is to get them to 16.5", i dunno if thats possible or not with a 13wk cycle but i'm gonna go for it. Somebody else on this website reported a 1.75" gain in his arms with a 12wk 500mgs test e cycle only. So i think its feasible. What you guys think? Also my weight is back up to 173lbs. Now thats with the clen too, about 80-120mcgs ed. So i'm pretty sure the weight i am gaining is muscle and not water. I still don't feel any bloating. I'm gonna try and go this week to get my bf% tested. Any feedback is greatly invited and appreciated, please make it constructive. I'll be posting a new pic next week for you guys to critique.
    Last edited by jc95605; 06-22-2008 at 03:33 PM.

  15. #15
    T_Own's Avatar
    T_Own is offline Formula1 Aficionado
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    gl with it. i kinda got lost in reading and started quickly skimming, but wouldnt it be better to spread out your workouts a little more and focus more on one or two muscles a day?

    sounds good though, too bad with the rough first injection attempt

  16. #16
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Ya i can see that. Next time I can spread the workout a lil wider making them easier to read. Ya I see your point to do 2 muscle groups a day. It would be more benefical. I've tried it b4 and i like this better. I have a hard enough time going to the gym as it is. My schedule is kinda random so i go when i can. I try to go at least e2d, more if possible. Oh and since the first injection I haven't had any problems. Actually i was thinking of trying the quad. Is it hard to get thru. Seems like i would be injected right into the muscle so it would be kinda hard to push thru, I dunno just thinking right now. Thank you for the input and keep it coming.

  17. #17
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 26th
    Workout Day 7
    Cycle Day 21
    Weight 172.5lbs

    Ok alot happened today and i'll try and cover it all. First off I'll put down what i did today. As always i'll put the changes in red.

    Flat bb bench: 135lbsx10, 185lbsx10, 205lbsx10, 225lbsx5

    Pec-Dec Fly: 90lbsx10, 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx10

    Decline bench (machine): 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10, 150lbsx10

    Hammer Curls: 30lbsx10, 35lbsx10, 35lbsx7

    Alternate Curls: 30lbsx10, 35lbsx10, 35lbsx7

    Cable Curls: 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 50lbsx10

    Cable Curls (left-arm only): 30lbsx10,30lbsx10, 30lbsx7

    Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 70lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10

    Tricep Pulldown (Triangle attachment): 55lbsx10, 60lbsx10, 60lbsx10

    Ok lets look at this further. First off as you can see i switched the first excercise back to barbell and i can honestly say i like db better. Going back to the barbell kinda hurt my shoulder again. I didn't wanna push too hard and not have anything left for arms so i pushed myself but i wasn't gonna kill myself if that makes any sense. I guess you can say i'm more than disappointed in that. I expected to get some gain, i mean something. The most i benched when using a bb was 245lbs. I'm looking to do more, hopfully my shoulder is too.

    On a good note it seems like my arms are still developing. Their turning out pretty good. Since starting the cycle my arms have gotten .25" bigger and are alot more toned and cut. So it would seem that the cycle is working on my arms but not really my chest, i'll get back to this later. Since my arms are getting cut up pretty good, I decided today that i'm gonna start to change my goals on my arms. As you can see i added weight and went down in reps. I think their cut up pretty good, now i'm gonna go after size. So from now on i'm gonna push the weight up and the reps down and work on size.

    As for my chest i'm simply disappointed. Its not gaining the way i want it too. Now i have a couple ideas because of this. One i'm doing the excercises wrong. I think this is less likely cuz my arms are getting bigger and i'm using the same theroies for those. I know each muscle develops different and different speeds but i think i know what it might be. Ok....a few days ago i started a thread on clen . My question was can taking clen while on cycle hinder gains? The majority (75%ish) said that taking clen on cycle either stopped their gains or they lost slight strength! Can you believe this crap. Now i don't think i put this in the log but around wk 2.5-3 i restarted clen. My goal was to build the muscle while burning fat, what everybody wants right. Well if you look at my weight entries i'm not gaining at all in fact i'm slowly losing, so the theroies that i got from my thread seem to be hold true. Because of this i'm stopping clen immediately!
    On a slightly different matter I finally got my bf% measured. i got it measure at a health food store using the caliper method, i know its not the most accurate but its gonna give me an idea. Well according to that my bf% is 16.5%. Pissed doesn't even begin to describe it. Before this cycle i did 2 cycles of DNP so i think its lower. That DNP works man!

    [I]So because of all this i was thinking about adding tren.[/I] I wanna take it to get some of the strength i lost with taking the clen. Also you always hear of the insane strength gains so of course i want those. Also tren leans you out. Its not uncommon to lose 2%bf on a 6wk cycle of tren, so thats another reason. Any please tell me your thought about this. I'm looking at adding 400mgs of Tren E ew for 5-6wks. Because of time constraits i of course would frontload it. I love frontloading i don't see why you wouldn't, especially cuz of these long esters.

    Thank you for sticking with me this far, lol. I took some pics today and i woud like to get some feedback on them. Please compare these to when i started and give me some feedback. I'm open to critism as long as its constuctive. Thanks again for reading.

    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle-wk4.jpg

    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle-wk4-2.jpg

    Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle-wk4-3.jpg

  18. #18
    thetank's Avatar
    thetank is offline Anabolic Member
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    nice improvement man, i see a notable difference for sure. you look way fuller, and just bigger all around. sweet log man, ile be following for sure! keep it up brutha.
    peace
    tank

  19. #19
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Really? I can't tell. It feels like i'm wasting my time, but if you can tell i guess its working. Thanks i appreciate the input.

  20. #20
    manwitplans's Avatar
    manwitplans is offline Senior Member
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    Well I also see difference.
    Are you using any drugs to combat water, gyno and such?

  21. #21
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    No not yet. I have adex on hand in case i need it. For the past 1.5 wks i've been using clen like i said in my last post. I'm thinking the clen is hold me back from getting gains. At least i thought it was, but you guys can see a difference so i guess its working. It might also be helping with the bloat, i'm not sure. Anyway as of this morning i'm stopping the clen and i'm gonna run the rest of the cycle w/o an additional stim. Thank you for your input.

  22. #22
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Anybody wanna comment on the Tren E idea. I can't seem to decide whether or not i need to do it or not. On one end i wanna run the rest of the cycle using only test e just to see how far i can push it. Other the other end i know if i use the tren i'm gonna get insane strength gains and lose 2% in bf, give or take. I can't hearing that you only keep about 20-30% of the strength gains. I'm assuming you keep the bf off. Any ideas or comments on the Tren. Please keep the input coming i appreciate the feedback.

  23. #23
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    June 30th
    Workout Day 8
    Cycle Day 25/Wk 4.5
    Weight 177.5lbs

    Before we get into it, I got a couple of notes. First of all if you notice my last workout i switched the first excercise from db bench to bb bench. Man i've been pumped up ever since, it was awesome! My chest looked pumped and cut ever since the last workout. I'm gonna chalk this one up to switching the excercise. Since it worked so well last time, I figured what the hell, i'm gonna do it again. So today I switched that again along with a couple of other things. As always the changes are in red.

    DB Flat bench: 65lbsx10, 75lbsx10, 85lbsx10

    Pec-Dec Fly: 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx10

    Chest Dips: 10, 7, 10

    Decline DB bench (machine): 45lbsx10, 45lbsx10, 45lbsx10

    Hammer Curls: 35lbsx7, 35lbsx7, 35lbsx7, [I](left-arm only: 35lbsx7), [/I]
    40lbsx7

    Alternate Curls: 35lbsx7, 35lbsx7, 35lbsx7, [I](left-arm only: 35lbsx7), [/I] 40lbsx7

    Cable Curls: 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7

    Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 90lbsx10, 90lbsx10

    Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment) 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10

    Well as you can see we switched it up a lil. Other than what i already told you the next note i wanna say is take a look at my weight at the top of this post. See that, up 5lbs in 4 days! My diet hasn't changed much at all. So i'm pretty sure thats muscle growth. Also going to what i said before, that my chest has felt pumped up and cut since the last workout, guess cuz it was growing huh?

    As you can see we hit 10 reps with 85lbs dumbells. My policy is once i hit 10reps i move up in weight. I wasn't 100% liking my form today so i think i'll do it one more workout and see where i'm at.

    Anyway with that being said i got some input on a new lower chest excercise, the chest dips. I gotta tell you they kicked my ass, lol. I dunno what the normal amount of reps is but the 10 reps i did was enough for me. I'm not happy with just doing 10 but this was my first time doing this excercise, so i'm taking this as my starting point/foundation. It'll only go up from here right. Also this killed my shoulders, which leads me to believe that either A: I did the excercise/motions wrong, or B: My shoulders are weak. I'm leaning towards option B. So in the near future you'll see more work towards the shoulders.

    I also changed the decline excercise. Its marked it red above because its a different machine and different motion. This one i did today was independent from each other, in other words it was like a dumbell excercise instead of the barbell like the last one. This excercise seemed to target more of the lower chest unlike the last one. I think maybe because it was a different, kinda like what happened with the db to bb flat bench.

    Another thing that i noticed was that i had some trouble with the left arm on the hammer and alternate curls around the 3rd and 4th set. You'll see more work on the left side in the future as well. Any suggestions to get that side stronger like the right sdie? Right now i'm just gonna do less weight and more sets on that side, any ideas?

    After that brutal bicep excercise i move to triceps and again i moved up in weight with the rope attachment. This was awesome. My tris felt ripped. By the time i got to the triangle attachment i was tired and all i had left was enough for 55lbs, which isn't bad. Last workout i moved up to 60lbs, but because with the rope i moved up i didn't have it here. It was like i just switched where i went up in weight. I'm still open for suggestions for new tricep excercises.

    Overall i'm pleased with the workout today since i pushed every muscle group harder today. It was either in weight or sets. But it was done.

    Also i think because i felt so pumped up (more so than usual) since the last workout and my weight and strength went up so fast i think the test is "kicking in." Today we're exactly at wk 4.5 which seems to be the norm for when test e kicks in. What you guys think? Also still taking feedback on my newest pics. As always any constructive feedback will be appreciated.
    Last edited by jc95605; 06-30-2008 at 07:47 PM.

  24. #24
    XXGOTTIXX's Avatar
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    bro sounds like your doing great!! exactly 4.5 weeks ... it could possible be your test! get ready and enjoy the ride!

  25. #25
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    Dips are awesome dude. Great calisthenic exercise. Once you get comfortable with em, you can opt to throw on a weight belt and do weighted dips.

  26. #26
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Ya i was suggested weighted dip but because this was my first time i went without the weight. They feel like they could be pretty hardcore, at least they felt that way. My plan is to work, and get my reps up then add a weight belt. What is the "normal" amount of reps ppl do with these anyway. If there is such a thing. And thank you for your input.

  27. #27
    stpete is offline Banned
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    Lookin good bro. Keep up the good work my man. Weighted dips are awesome and they're a staple in my workouts, but i always mix em up. Heavy one week, high reps the next. I think that's the key. Keep your body guessing as to what's coming next.

  28. #28
    Obro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc95605 View Post
    Ya i was suggested weighted dip but because this was my first time i went without the weight. They feel like they could be pretty hardcore, at least they felt that way. My plan is to work, and get my reps up then add a weight belt. What is the "normal" amount of reps ppl do with these anyway. If there is such a thing. And thank you for your input.
    Hey, following yer log Bro.
    If I recall correctly perfectbeast does dips with 50kgs.
    I love em but I have no dip bars here in Thailand. I only do them when I go working overseas in the gym there. I keep meaning to make up something for my home gym here.
    Keep it up bro.
    Obro

  29. #29
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    So your the one following my log. I appreciate it and the input. More is better when it comes to input.

  30. #30
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    I'm enjoying your log, man. Keep it up.

  31. #31
    AcePowerZ is offline Member
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    Are you working out your legs at all? working your legs will help with your gains. also it just seams like you may not be working out enough, but it could just be me. Work them legs bro

  32. #32
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Ya i hurt my knee awhile back ago. Last time i tried to push myself with it i hurt it again, so i'm taking it easy on it. By next cycle it'll definately be ready. It be ready soon but like i said last time i pushed it i hurt it again so i wanna be careful with it. Ya I was thinking about that and i think you right, i think i should go more too. I think i'm doing ok with chest and arms which you can obviously see but theres always something that happens on shoulders day. Anyway i'm gonna try to go more cuz i actually do agree with you. Also, another thing. AcePower, that kinda pissed me off that you caught that, so the next post is deicated to you, lol.

  33. #33
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    July 3rd
    Workout Day 9
    Cycle Day 28/Wk 5
    Weight 180lbs

    Before i get into it thanks again to AcePower for giving me the motivation to go last night. It really helped, it was last piece of the puzzle that i needed to go.

    Ok, recently i've been making a few threads asking about different excercises, what excercises work best for ppl. I just wanna thank you guys for your input cuz i actually use. You will see it cuz as always the changes are in red.

    Flat DB bench: 65lbsx10, 75lbsx10, 85lbs x10

    Pec-Dec Fly: 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx10

    Decline DB Machine: 45lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10

    Chest Dips: 10,10,7

    Hammer Curls: 35lbsx7, 45lbsx7, 35lbsx7, (35lbsx7 left arm only)

    Alternate Curls: 35lbsx7, 45lbsx7, 35lbsx7, (35lbsx7 left arm only)

    Cable Curls: 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7

    JM Press: 30lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 50lbsx10, 60lbsx10

    Lying DB extension: 25lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 35lbsx10

    Tricep extension (rope attachment): 70lbsx10, 70lbsx10, 70lbsx10

    One thing i wanna point out is my weight, up to 180lbs! Thursday (July 3rd) is wk 5 exactly. Thats a total weight gain so far of 13lbs, and were not even half way thru the cycle. I'm still going, i'm anxious to see how far i can push the envelope.

    Ok the chest workout was pretty much the same so i don't wanna spend that much time on it. I did the 85lbs dumbells 10x again. After i did them my shoulders were hurting pretty good so now i'm kinda unsure if i should go up in weight; what do you guys think? I did the dips again and changed my form more in the shape of a crescent. I don't see how this helps chest, it kills my shoulder everytime. I need alot of work in my shoulders tho so i'll keep doing em.

    My bicep routine was awesome as usual. As you can see i tried to have my last 2 sets with 40lb db, but it wasn't happening, lol. I tried tho! After those db excercies my arms felt blasted, I love it! Cable curls were great at 50lbs those might move up soon, we'll see.

    Ok the triceps. There was alot of change with these this time wasn't there. First one i tried was the JM press. This was one the excercises that i got alot of feedback on. I don't really like how it went at all. I think my form might have been wrong. After reading about them i think my hands were too far apart. How far are you hands when you do the JM Press?

    Next I tried the DB overhead tricep extension. Between this and the JM, i think these both are close to the skull crushers, so i left them out. This excercise i think was alot better. As I bought the db up tho it felt like i was using one arm more than the other a lil too much. I think cuz of the way you place both your hands on the db. Next time i think i'll try skull crushers with the EZ bar, what you guys think of that?
    One thing that I would like to get some input on is how i can strengthen my left arm. Right now i'm just doing an extra set with that arm but i wanted to hear some ways that you guys even them out. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks again guys for everything.
    Last edited by jc95605; 07-04-2008 at 11:16 AM.

  34. #34
    binder's Avatar
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    question:

    you said you are frontloading 1000mg of test e but you said you did 2 250mg shots in 1 day. that would only be 500mg of frontload.

    did i miss something?

    i'm going to be doing 500mg per week test e and i was considering front loading 1000mg also, but that would shorten my cycle by 1 week. i would be at 9 weeks instead of 10 so i'm not sure about it yet. still pondering if going 1 more week would be worth the quick jump by frontloading. i'm still sceptical that i'll even notice or use that frontload since biologically it takes longer to get hte levels up so i'm afraid that first 500mg half-life will be wasted.

  35. #35
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    You know like i said in the log something different is happening this past week, which would be wk 4-5. That is usually when test e kicks in. So i really didn't notice anything b4 that. Well i did but i'm contributing that to the tbol since that kicks in alot quicker. In answer to your question, i took 2 250mgs shots in one day. My test is in 250mgs amps, so thats why i had to take 2. The 2 amps equaled 500mgs for each day, that twice a week, equaling 1000mgs for that week. Are you going to be doing a test e only cycle? Whats your cycle look like, pm me.

  36. #36
    binder's Avatar
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    i've just decided to make it straight test E. i was going to kick it with dbol then finish with winny but i changed my mind for right now. i'm just thinking the most effective way of running it for what i want.

    and by front loading 1000mg i'll be shooting up one time, 1000mg. splitting a few days apart doesn't make it a full 1000mg frontload which is what i thought you meant. i was confused.

  37. #37
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    Ya i did 500mgs x 2 for the first week. I think its a good idea x-ing out those orals. I don't like dbol but more importantly i think those two orals are a lil too close together. I would give my liver a lil more time to recover, but thats me. Thanks again for your input.

  38. #38
    binder's Avatar
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    i inject winny.

    dbol always worked great for me, but i just don't feel like messing with it this round.

    and they woudn't be together. first 4 weeks would have been dbol, last 4 weeks winny. there would have been time between them with only test. i'm just doing test only for this cycle though. gonna let the body rest off the other stuff for a while

  39. #39
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    I've been thinking of injecting winnie on my next cycle. We'll see how this one goes. but my next one i wanna do a hardcore cutting cycle.

  40. #40
    jc95605 is offline Senior Member
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    I know its late but i just had an idea. What do you guys think of me starting the adex? I don't really feel bloated but i wonder if theres a few extra pounds of water. I'm curious to see what would happen if i were to take .5mgs of a week. What you guys think? I've been gaining pretty good as you can see. Am up by 13lbs! But i wonder if thats all muscle or is it water? What you think?

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