Starting cycle

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 01:05 AM

180lbs.
5'11"
20% bf
35 years old
500mg Test E. 10wks
300mg Deca 8wks
10-20 Novl. if needed
I have yet to start the cycle as I'm waiting on the gear to get here. It takes about a week after ordering it to get here. Anyways, I have done some research on this new gear and I have found good and bad. There really wasn't much out there on it though. That being said........what better way to find out than to get some and see how it works. The proof is in the pudding.....right?

My goals are to put on about 25lbs. I'm in good shape now. I was at about 195lbs but I had some lower back problems and had to stay out of the gym for a few months. So now I'm back to 175lbs.I've been working out for 4 years never for any reason other than I enjoyed it. I have done one other cycle a couple of years ago and got good results from it.

I will post some pictures this weekend or at the start of the week. I may need some info on how to do that it you guys don't mind. I will also post pictuers every few weeks so everyone can see my progress. I will post some pixctures of the gearthat I purchased as well. I do know that there is to be no manf. info in the photos.

I just wanted to get this post started so everyone would ahve a chance to hack it up or incase anyone wanted to share their experience with me.

Let me know if there is any more info that any one would like. This was just the basic stuff. I will include my diet on a weekly type. I don't care to sit and type exactly how much of what I ate at which time. And I don't think you guys need all that. I'm thinking if I give you a weekly run down of what I had then you will know if I'm way off or missing something or whatever.

Let me know if I missed anything here tonight and I will include it when I start posting. Let me know about the pictures to please.

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by nesman

180lbs.
5'11"
20% bf This is WAY to high to begin a cycle.
35 years old
500mg Test E. 10wks
300mg Deca 8wks 8 weeks of Deca is pointless. Minimum should be 12weeks.
10-20 Novl. if needed You shouldnt take Nolva on cycle as a means of estrogen control when youre using a 19-Nor. You need to run Adex, especially if you are a hardhead and dont listen when i say that 20%BF is too high. Read my thread at the bottom of page.

I have yet to start the cycle as I'm waiting on the gear to get here. It takes about a week after ordering it to get here. Anyways, I have done some research on this new gear and I have found good and bad. There really wasn't much out there on it though. That being said........what better way to find out than to get some and see how it works. The proof is in the pudding.....right?

My goals are to put on about 25lbs. I'm in good shape now. I was at about 195lbs but I had some lower back problems and had to stay out of the gym for a few months. So now I'm back to 175lbs.I've been working out for 4 years never for any reason other than I enjoyed it. I have done one other cycle a couple of years ago and got good results from it.

I will post some pictures this weekend or at the start of the week. I may need some info on how to do that it you guys don't mind. I will also post pictuers every few weeks so everyone can see my progress. I will post some pixctures of the gearthat I purchased as well. I do know that there is to be no manf. info in the photos.

POSTING PICTURES 101: Step-by-step method
POSTING PICTURES 101: Step-by-step method

I just wanted to get this post started so everyone would ahve a chance to hack it up or incase anyone wanted to share their experience with me.

Let me know if there is any more info that any one would like. This was just the basic stuff. I will include my diet on a weekly type. Post it up. Please include Macros, and YOU MUST INCLUDE THE WEIGHT OF THE FOOD! Regular days diet.

I don't care to sit and type exactly how much of what I ate at which time. And I don't think you guys need all that. I'm thinking if I give you a weekly run down of what I had then you will know if I'm way off or missing something or whatever.

Let me know if I missed anything here tonight and I will include it when I start posting. Let me know about the pictures to please.
Where is the PCT?!

BOLDS

Also, you need to read my sticky about prevention measures on cycle.

Gyno Prevention, Gyno Treatment, and Letro Reversals Explained!
"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 11:56 AM

PCT......Clomid 1-3 wks as well as Zinc 1-3 wks. My family Dr. told me that Zinc would be a great thing to use in PCT

I didn't know that there was min. requirment on the amount of weeks you had to run any type of steroid . I know that there are suggested lenghts. And the one I found was 7-10wks for an effective run of Deca . Nt a min. of 12.

Also I never saw a min. requirment on the amount of body fat one is to have inorder for the steroids to work. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place for my info.

I'm not a PBB, I don't expect these to be wonder drugs. I expect to get a little help from them with the effort that I put in at the gym and my diet.

Warmachine.........I do appericate the suggestions but I'm pretty sure I will be fine if my body fat is a little high and I know the world won't blow up if I don't post the exact amount of my diet.................oh wait the steropids didn't help me because I ate 4.00234 oz. of chicken instead of 4.000233oz. I'm not trying to be a wiseass but not everyone is quite that anal. I'm a country boy, I'm a little more relaxed.

If everyone would rather I didn't post this thread that is fine with me also. I could care less. I just thought some might like to see some results with pictures...........even if things are not done quite perfect.

Thank you for the info on how to post pictures. I will get them up in people care to see them.

**Big** · 04-24-2009, 11:59 AM

Of course there are minimum durations to run compounds, determined by the ester, and of course there are many reasons not to cycle at high bf%.

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:06 PM

ok the min. requirments your right. Not that you needed me to tell you that but my point was I don't have to run 12 wks of Deca or else I won't get any results. The info I found was 7-10wks.

Why would it matter if my bf was around 20%...................by the way I don't think that it is that high. I have a six pack, but I don't know that it isn't.

Should I not even post this? Really, I mean I appericate the info and so on but its more like a brow beating on here sometimes from what I've read.

**Big** · 04-24-2009, 12:10 PM

The info you have read on deca is incorrect. I'm done here, good luck.

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:22 PM

the link war threw on here even shows 10wks. I'm not saying anything is wrong or right but that is what it shows on the cycle link under novice.

But whatever. I will pick up a couple extra ampules of Deca . No big deal.

you never said anything about bf

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 12:30 PM

when you start at a cycle at a high b/f you can have a lot more problems, such as water retention, high blood pressure, and gyno (bitch tits)......among others.....they are trying to look out for your health if u are going to run a cycle.......ive started my first, i was at about 20% i waited till i got down to about 16-17 %........there a lot of info on here but it doesnt always mean its right, listen to the vets big & warmachine that have been around, I promise they have ur best intrest at heart, I have never seen them steer somebody wrong, thes guys know from years of research and actually probably some research on themselves

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 12:33 PM

sorry one more thing, dont be in a hurry work... for about amonth on your b/f, with cardio and diet, then u will get alot more out of your cycle and it will be money well spent, they have agreat diet section here to help you with that........

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:33 PM

I'm not trying to be a dick......really. I didn't know about the bf situation. All I know is what I've read and what everyone else has said. And as always you can read and hear one thing then go somewhere else and hear or read the exact oppisite.

I would say that my bf is in that range.

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:36 PM

you know what, my scale is what gave me that %. Its all that I ahve to get it with. I'm not all that high tech. I will go ahead and post a picture and let you guys take a crack me that way. How would that be. Give mem a few minutes

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:43 PM

ok here is a picture that is recent

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:45 PM

I didn't have one without that tattoo. I ahve lots of tattoo work, whole back piece and both ribs and so on....................sorry its the most recent pic I could find

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 12:48 PM

Dude, thats fine, your scale is off, I would guess your 14 to 15% if that picture wasnt 5 year old and you have gained 30 pounds since then? lol

is this ur first cycle?

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 12:52 PM

LMAO............it was taken in Dec. 08

I did a cycle here a few years ago. I was going to do one last fall but I never did as I wasn't sure where to get gear from. I was new (still am) and I didn't know which sites to trust. I still don't so I just ordered some stuff from a site blindly and hopefully everything will be fine, if not..........lesson learned

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 12:58 PM

After you get to 50 post you can do a source check with one of the vets, make sure your source is reliable, the cylce looks good I would follow warmachines advice, Ive seen a lot of people on here run deca 10 weeks and run the test 12 weeks, want to make sure to run the test 2 weeks longer........but war is right you will get a lot more out of the deca if you can run it 12 weeks and your test 14 weeks, do have everthing for AI and pct?

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 01:05 PM

also on the test and deca make sure u do 2x week injections 250mg test & 200mg of deca same syringe, just in case you didnt know it keeps ur blood more stable.......monday morning first injection thursday night 2nd injection....

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 01:05 PM

I can run it longer. Should I cut down on the amount I'm running to make it stretch or just order more? Shipping costs are high not to mention the gear is as well. Should I order the same brand? That way I know weather the stuff is good?

AI????????

PCT..................Clomid 300mg 100mg down to 50mg. for 4wks. My Dr. said to take Zinc as well. He said it will boost my Test. My family Dr. is the bomb. He is a country Dr. and has known me for my whole life. I live on a farm in the Midwest.

**alpmaster** · 04-24-2009, 01:11 PM

You are nowhere near 20% BF if you look anything like you do in that picture

. Please listen closely when these guys are giving advice, most are veterans of steroid use and know what to do.

You should be anal about your diet, not like 1-2oz of more or less chicken would do anything, but you should be aware of your caloric and macro needs and make sure you meet them. These aren't miracle drugs, like you said, but the synergistic effect of proper training, correct diet, and adequate rest is amazing, and throwing AAS into the mix PROPERLY can only make it more so. So these areas should be taken seriously, and the hard work can pay off greatly. Would you bust your ass off paying a college tuition just to slack off on all of your classes? Probably not. So now you're paying for these drugs and busting your ass in the gym, you might as well do everything properly to take advantage of better, worthwhile results, otherwise - why do it all?

**normaljoe** · 04-24-2009, 01:13 PM

Your fine on the Body fat brother. That photo shows it's only 4 months old, as long as you are very close to that now, your not at any higher risk for increased side effects. Under 10% is best, but under 15% is reasonable.

Regarding the Deca , the reason they are saying "12 weeks, 12 weeks 12 weeks!", is because the long estered compounds don't even beginning to show results until week 5, so why use a juice that your only going to get 3 weeks of gains from? You can pick a shorter esther and not be waiting 20 days before it starts firing off. So unless you are going to run 12 weeks, save the Deca for another cycle.

Since you have been off for several years, and your not so big that you need a large dosage cycle like you have posted. I would recommend you simply use the quantity of gear you already have, but stretch it into a 12 week cycle:

If you dose your test e at 400 mg per week, and your Deca at 200 mg per week you can run 12 weeks without waiting on another order before you start. Just re-read up on your PCT since I think you misunderstood something if you think including nolva during that cycle is needed. Please go re-read, and make sure you understand your PCT a bit better before you jump on the juice.

**8iron** · 04-24-2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by nesman

I can run it longer. Should I cut down on the amount I'm running to make it stretch or just order more? Shipping costs are high not to mention the gear is as well. Should I order the same brand? That way I know weather the stuff is good?

AI????????

PCT..................Clomid 300mg 100mg down to 50mg. for 4wks. My Dr. said to take Zinc as well. He said it will boost my Test. My family Dr. is the bomb. He is a country Dr. and has known me for my whole life. I live on a farm in the Midwest.

go under the Pct section there is info on pct and AI....... war machine has a great stickie on this...... if you have any question after you read it feel free to ask.......I would just go with you 12 week test and 10 week deca ..... good second cycle from what i hear.........6 months down the road if you decide to do another after you body has recovered.........run the same with the two weeks added and throw in some dbol the first 4 to 5 weeks....AI is usually run to help with estrogen side during a cycle most people use Adex.................running to the gym ill be back in a couple ot hours........if you have any questions post them. alot of good guys out here to help you.........I know T-mos is around right now he has no life.......lol

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 01:33 PM

the novla. was just incase I had any problems its not my pct. I have clomid and Zinc. I posted this a few times already.

I can lower my doseages and make things stretch.

macro????????????

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 01:41 PM

just another photo kind of a close up but its all I had. Same month.......Dec08

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by nesman

the link war threw on here even shows 10wks. I'm not saying anything is wrong or right but that is what it shows on the cycle link under novice.

But whatever. I will pick up a couple extra ampules of Deca . No big deal.

you never said anything about bf

Not true at all...

Originally Posted by nesman

PCT......Clomid 1-3 wks as well as Zinc 1-3 wks. My family Dr. told me that Zinc would be a great thing to use in PCT Why is that exactly? Ive disproven this claim before, i just wanna see why you think it would be a good idea?

I didn't know that there was min. requirment on the amount of weeks you had to run any type of steroid . I know that there are suggested lenghts. And the one I found was 7-10wks for an effective run of Deca. Nt a min. of 12. Thats fine. Dont listen, i mean what do we know.

Also I never saw a min. requirment on the amount of body fat one is to have inorder for the steroids to work. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place for my info. No youre not. High BF% when cycling brings estrogen related side effects with it. If youd have read my thread, youd know that...

I'm not a PBB, I don't expect these to be wonder drugs. I expect to get a little help from them with the effort that I put in at the gym and my diet. Little is all you get. Id like to see you get maximum gains.

Warmachine.........I do appericate the suggestions but I'm pretty sure I will be fine if my body fat is a little high and I know the world won't blow up if I don't post the exact amount of my diet.................oh wait the steropids didn't help me because I ate 4.00234 oz. of chicken instead of 4.000233oz. I'm not trying to be a wiseass but not everyone is quite that anal. I'm a country boy, I'm a little more relaxed. Again bro, you dont want help, thats perfectly fine. Enjoy HRT and gyno!

If everyone would rather I didn't post this thread that is fine with me also. I could care less. I just thought some might like to see some results with pictures...........even if things are not done quite perfect.

Thank you for the info on how to post pictures. I will get them up in people care to see them.

Originally Posted by alpmaster

You are nowhere near 20% BF if you look anything like you do in that picture

. Please listen closely when these guys are giving advice, most are veterans of steroid use and know what to do.

You should be anal about your diet, not like 1-2oz of more or less chicken would do anything, but you should be aware of your caloric and macro needs and make sure you meet them. These aren't miracle drugs, like you said, but the synergistic effect of proper training, correct diet, and adequate rest is amazing, and throwing AAS into the mix PROPERLY can only make it more so. So these areas should be taken seriously, and the hard work can pay off greatly. Would you bust your ass off paying a college tuition just to slack off on all of your classes? Probably not. So now you're paying for these drugs and busting your ass in the gym, you might as well do everything properly to take advantage of better, worthwhile results, otherwise - why do it all?

^^^Awesome advice!

As for the picture, you are below 20%. Likely around 14% BF.

But again, please refer to the top of my post here and explain to my as to why Zinc is good for PCT?

The rest of my Advice is in BOLDS.

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 01:49 PM

My Dr. said zinc with boost low test levels. I don't know if that is true or not but since a dr said it would help................I will take it.

I'm not LYING!!!!!!! I swear the part that shows cycles for novice 1 and novice 2 and so on does show Deca running at 10 wks. It is true I just read the damn thing. Go to your orginal post and click on the word cycle and tell me that it doesn't show Deca at 10wks. under the novice cycle

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 02:00 PM

does it appear that I'm not listening? Really does it? Because I am, but soem of your guys come off as....................."Well if you don't do exactly as I say your wasting your time and nothing will ever work for you the rest of your life."

I am listening to you. I will pay attention to my diet. I don't think my posting weather or not I ate 0.00304 grams of tuna and exactly 7:42am is going to make a difference that I told you I ate 4 oz of tuna on Monday. That was my point. NOt that I'm saying I'm only going to eat 4oz of tuna on monday and nothing else.

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by nesman

I'm not LYING!!!!!!! I swear the part that shows cycles for novice 1 and novice 2 and so on does show Deca running at 10 wks. It is true I just read the damn thing. Go to your orginal post and click on the word cycle and tell me that it doesn't show Deca at 10wks. under the novice cycle

Oh i see where you got confused.

I didnt post that bro. Its just a link set up by the website.

Anyway, yeah sure, 10weeks of Deca is fine. Along with myself, other suggest 12 weeks of the compound due to the fact that it consistantly takes 4-6weeks for the compound to take an effect. So obviously, 6 weeks of peaked use is better than 3 or 4.

Originally Posted by nesman

My Dr. said zinc with boost low test levels. I don't know if that is true or not but since a dr said it would help................I will take it.

This doesnt make any sense at all. Maintaining a healthy diet high in zinc, potassium, and Vitamins A, B, and E all raise testosterone levels . That doesnt mean it will restart your HPTA!

For people who have naturally low Testosterone levels, these natural healthy foods can be a great help to raising their T levels. However! You dont have naturally low Test levels. You are going to have supressed levels due to introducing a Steroid into your otherwise normal bodily functions. The average Total testosterone for males your age is roughly 270–1,080 ng/dL (9.00–37.48 nmol/L)

Once you are a few weeks into a cycle, they will likely be non existant! Do you follow?

How much Zinc were you planning to take a day? Too much Zinc in a person can cause serious issues as well....

Look, your PCT is horrible, even if you dont listen to any other advice, please listen to me concerning PCT.

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by nesman

does it appear that I'm not listening? Really does it? Because I am, but soem of your guys come off as....................."Well if you don't do exactly as I say your wasting your time and nothing will ever work for you the rest of your life."

I am listening to you. I will pay attention to my diet. I don't think my posting weather or not I ate 0.00304 grams of tuna and exactly 7:42am is going to make a difference that I told you I ate 4 oz of tuna on Monday. That was my point. NOt that I'm saying I'm only going to eat 4oz of tuna on monday and nothing else.

Also if you want to get all pissy over people trying to help you, then fine. Leave bro!

I am only trying to steer you into the right direction with real life experience, and with medical facts. If my advice is not wanted nor needed, then fine. Stop posting.

**nesman** · 04-24-2009, 02:16 PM

so clomid400mg first day 100mg everyday after that for the first week and second week and 50mg everyday for the third week is no good.

And I didn't say you posted that about Deca . I said it is where I went under the word cycle.

And I will leave. I was listening, and taking advice. And now I will take it once more. Bro

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:24 PM

No skin off my back!

Im not the one who will wind up on HRT is ten years from a never fully recovered HPTA!

**WARMachine** · 04-24-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by nesman

so clomid400mg first day 100mg everyday after that for the first week and second week and 50mg everyday for the third week is no good.
And I didn't say you posted that about Deca . I said it is where I went under the word cycle.

And I will leave. I was listening, and taking advice. And now I will take it once more. Bro

Nope not really. 400mgs of Clomid is insane. Just wait for the sides on that one! And Clomid only PCT is rubuish. But w/e, you arent here anymore anyway!

**alpmaster** · 04-24-2009, 03:36 PM

Dude, did you just disregard my post? Here, I'll make it easy as you seem to just want to challenge confirmed cycle advice from members who have done multiple cycles and have scientific studies to back their claims, not "my family doctor said".

Here goes:

Test E 500mg Weeks 1-12, 250mg Monday, 250mg Thursday
Adex/Ldex and Nolva on hand for any estro side effects

4 week PCT, starting 14 days from last injection:

week1/week2/week3/week4
Clomid: 100mg/50mg/50mg/50mg
Nolvadex : 40mg/40mg/20mg/20mg

That will be your standard APPROVED beginner cycle. If you go to the diet forum, we will help you and can personally map out a complete diet for you to maximize (ie: not waste your time and money) results.

So there it is, all laid out, and easy to follow, and we're telling you how we can help. Now, if you still want to be thick headed and use these drugs the way you want, go ahead. Enjoy your 3 week zinc PCT and man boobs.