what about the people who dont have a clue going on a "cycle"

[BoxerTricks07]

Alright lads going to be starting my cycle within the next month or so after iv cut a little extra bf remaining..not long to go

because its my first cycle and having done alot of research and help from experienced guys im going with
1-12 500mg of test e either 2x250mg or 1 shot
1-4/5 50mg dbol ed
nolva and clomid as my pcts

going to be posting throughout my cycle and will post pics and results when iv finished. would like to thank all the people whov given me valuable info and especially lats60 whos a top bloke and got to be one of the most knowledgable blokes iv spoken to about the subject, got a spot on diet now and my training program is really good which brings me onto my question guys.

Iv been working out for a while now naturally and i see guys who weigh next to nothing with no previous experience double in size after their first, i spose you could call it a cycle, yet they`v got no proper diet, no proper workout routine and they probably dont know what their putting into their bodys, my point is how do these guys get big with such massive improvements with no knowledge or previous lifting experience and no muscles or definition in the first place?

dont get me wrong without this site and info from research i wouldnt know much if anything about the gear and my diet has improved massively since being a member, so im not flaming anyone whos done it this way and improved its just i see these kind of youths all the time in my gym and they havent got a clue yet after juicing they have still improved

[jfalco]

How do you know their experience? How do you know their diet?

Do these guys stay bigger or do their "gains" disappear as fast as they came?

[BoxerTricks07]

because i speak to quite a few and they all eat junk like kfc, and they dont know what pcts are so id say they dont know what there doing.
most come and go so i cant comment but a youth who cant be older than 20 looks like hes kept a good percentage of his gains for over a year now.
I suspect most mentioned have lost their gains but my point is how do they get big with a crap diet and no experience with no knowledge of the gear they are using

[BoxerTricks07]

btw these guys idea of a diet is conrflakes for breakfast, kfc or maccy ds for dinner, a bowl of pasta and a "milkshake" after gym

[alpmaster]

They probably don't have that much of a good physique as you're saying...

Anyway, it's easy to be 'big and strong' and it's easy to be 'thin and cut'.. now developing a physique that is both, that is the hard part.

[BoxerTricks07]

I said they doubled in size (from being small) i didnt say they were going to compete at mr olympia, but yea they look pretty decent

[alpmaster]

Alright, so then if you want to double in size like them (which I'm sure is about 85% fat), just train and eat as much junk food as you can possibly fit in your stomach.

[BoxerTricks07]

lol what you on about mate? i didnt say i have or am going to train like a doughnut the whole point to what i was asking was how people grow without proper diets or cycles

[BoxerTricks07]

btw im talking about eeryday small guys as in skinny so i doubt there suddenly carrying around 85% bf dude

[alpmaster]

I didn't say they are 85%bf (which we all know is impossible), I'm saying that the gains they are making by eating like that and growing, are simply going to be mostly from fat. I remember back in highschool there would always be some fat ass kid who was just big and kids saying that he was 'jacked'.

If they are making gains like you are proclaiming, but eating 3 meals a day consisting of a shake and KFC, they are not quality gains. They are either still small with some more muscle definition which might amaze you if you are small, or they have just become fat and as a result have put on more muscle and thus look 'bigger'. They have not made qualitative muscle gains eating like that, it just doesn't work.

[BoxerTricks07]

EDIT you knew what meant, 85% of it as fat

nobodys mentioned anything about being fat, and no it doesnt amaze me.

I am not proclaiming anything, your not quite on my wavelength with this, its like you think im impressed or i think there gains are magical or down to genetics, its more of a debateable question mate

Yeah i agree the gains are probabley short term, but the gains made do look good and regardless of longivity the gains look quality regardless of diet and cycle
im not a moron i know what a good physique looks like mate, im not easily impressed and im bigger than you kidda so dont talk to me as if im an imppressionable noob at the gym, just wondered why some people still get good gains off the gear without knowing enough and putting the effort in with diet and training routine

[Hunter-S-Thompson]

there's been studies done where a control group took steroids and didn't change their diet OR even work out and they still gained a few pounds of muscle, the difference between them, the douche's at the gym eating micky d's and not doing PCT, and us is we strive to KEEP our hard earned muscle, they say goodbye to it after they're cycle.

[Hunter-S-Thompson]

also as long as your diet/training/pct are in check you'll gain a hell of a lot more than the idiots pumping hormones into they're body with no knowledge of what they're doing. we work hard and keep our diet 100%
clean to get the most we possibly can out of our cycle/training

[BoxerTricks07]

great points mate