Cycle #1 - TestE, DBol, Deca

[RyanAlmighty]

Age: 22
Weight: 164.5lbs.
Height: 5"8
Body Fat%: 10%
Chest: 38in.
Biceps: 13in.
Waist: 35in.
Quads: 19.5in.

Background
I have been actively training since 6th grade in every sport from Wrestling to Golf. I believe to have a pretty good understanding of human anatomy and physiology (Dental Major), including nutrition and exercise techniques. As with most hard-gainers, my high metabolism is consistently getting in the way of adding quality mass to my physique. After pouring over all the information I can possibly obtain on AAS, I have decided to start my first cycle. My goals are to gain (and keep) as much qualtiy muscle mass as possible.


Gear
Week 1-10 Test-E @ 500mgs every Monday AM and Thursday PM
Week 1-10 Arimidex @ .25mgs/day
Week 1-8 Deca @ 620mgs/week
Week 1-4 DBol @ 25mgs/day

PCT
Week 13-16 Clomid @ 100/50/50/50 Nolva @ 40/20/20/20


Nutrition
Meal 1: Protein Bar, Muscle Milk

Meal 2: Elite Oatmeal, x2 Scoops Monster Milk

(1000mg Acetominophen 45min prior to combat DBol headaches)

WORKOUT

Meal 3: x2 Scoops Monster Milk, 1/2 cup Whole Wheat Rice

Meal 4: x2 Tuna Packets

Meal 5: Protein Bar

Before Bed: x2 Scoops Casein Powder

Throughout Day: x1 Serving Mass Shake

Calories: 3715 Fat: 51g Carbs: 477g Protein: 336g

Supplements
ON Serious Mass
Monster Milk
Creatine (30min Before Workout)
BSN N.O. Explode (45min Before Workout)
Glutamine (5g in AM, 5g in PM)
B6 (100mgs x2 everyday)
Flaxseed Oil (1000mgs x3-4 everyday)
Omega 3 Fish Oil (1000mgs x3-4 everyday)
Vitamin C (1000mgs x2 everyday)
Milk Thistle (1000mgs x2 everyday)
One-A-Day Men's Multivitamin
CMZ (1000/400/15mg everyday)
Ginseng (100mgs everyday)


Workout
Workouts will follow the FST-7 outline as provided by BodyBuilding.com. There are 4 exercises per body part, with the first 3 exercises being performed at 3-4 Sets/8-12 Reps with 60-90sec rest. The last exercise for each group will consist of 7 sets/12 reps with only 30sec. rest in between.

Exercise #1 - Compound, Heavy Load
Exercise #2 - Isolation, Heavy Load
Exercise #3 - Compound, Heavy Load
Exercise #4 - Isolation, as heavy as possible to complete the 12 reps

Monday: Chest

Tuesday: Back

Wednesday: Shoulders/Traps

Thursday: Biceps/Triceps

Friday: Legs/Abs


Any and all comments, questions, concerns are welcome. I will post before pics later this evening. This post will have picture updates at Week 1, 4, 8, and 12.

[tjax03]

Your diet is pretty bad. You rely on protein shakes way too much. You should have fixed that before even thinking about cycling. Also there is no way you need all those compounds on your first cycle. If side effects come up, how will you know which drug is the cuplrit? At 165 pounds you could stand to gain more before naturally. I would recommend you stop the cycle right away and work on your diet.

[D7M]

Your diet is pretty bad. You rely on protein shakes way too much. You should have fixed that before even thinking about cycling. Also there is no way you need all those compounds on your first cycle. If side effects come up, how will you know which drug is the cuplrit? At 165 pounds you could stand to gain more before naturally. I would recommend you stop the cycle right away and work on your diet.

Exactly.

And who told you to take 1000mg of acetaminophen ED?! You don't even know if you will get head aches from dbol if you never used it, headaches are often caused by high blood pressure, and that much acetaminophen ED is just plain ridiculous.

You're the classic hard gainer you can't gain because you don't eat right.

Steroids are not the answer, my friend.

[RyanAlmighty]

The Arimidex everyday should help control the side effects. If any do decide to appear, I have all the neccessary ancilliaries to combat them - what does it matter which compound it comes from? Gyno is gyno whether it comes from one compound or the other.

I understood going in that my diet is not at its best. With working and going to school fulltime, it's hard to pull out the George Foreman grilling machine and cook up some chicken breasts. I agree Meal #1 could easily be replaced with the normal egg/wheat toast combination, but what could I replace Meal #5 with? Please keep in mind this meal is right as I am getting off work, so something that would require little to no preperation would be ideal. Microwaves and refrigerators are not part of company policy. I realize real food > bars/shakes, but I was more concerned with adhering to the reccommended micros more than the quality of the meals.

[RyanAlmighty]

Exactly.

And who told you to take 1000mg of acetaminophen ED?! You don't even know if you will get head aches from dbol if you never used it, headaches are often caused by high blood pressure, and that much acetaminophen ED is just plain ridiculous.

You're the classic hard gainer you can't gain because you don't eat right.

Steroids are not the answer, my friend.

The very first time I took DBol my headache was so bad I had to have a friend come pick me up from the gym and take me home. I took one the day my gear came in the mail to see what effect it had. (Kept hearing how "instant" DBol's effects were) I realize 1000mgs of acetaminphen ED is a lot, but I have a lifetime subscription to Vicodin and Diazepam (Valium) due to multiple surgerys over the years. My body has developed an extremely high tolerance to pain reducers, and I wanted to make sure I was taking enough to be able to finish a workout should the aches begin to reappear. I have yet to have a headache since.

Again, considering the fact that I am in school/work from 6:30am to 10:00pm with no source for proper food storage, any suggestions on replacing shakes/bars with real food that I can manage to fit into my schedule is appreciated. "Diet sucks" is beating a dead horse with a stick and accomplishes nothing. It's either getting my macros in through pouched food/shakes/bars or nothing.

[6ft5]

That's an ass load of shakes...Big can of white chickn 60g protein pc at 2.20pc x7 like 15 bucks, box whole grain pasta split 6 times like 60g carbs a pc. Like 2 dallors. That's 6 to 7 meals for like 17 bucks. That's usualy my second meal. CHEAP! I feel much better if I make a 50 to 60g shake w oatmeal and glutamine and split it before and after workout.

[6ft5]

Subway diet, foot long w 4 breast half cheese all green vegg. 7.50 bucks. Can make 2 meals if u want. 80g+ pro.. carb 60 to 70. Easy

[6ft5]

Oh I carry a cooler w me. Pain in the ass but at least I won't starv. U can just grab stuff all over on throw it in the cooler by the end of the day u mite have sum xtra goodies for brakfast or sumthing.

[Batman360]

Your diet is terrible man. You remind me of myself when I first started. Calories are not everything. Get rid of the weightgainer, it's just a bunch of sugar. Add more carbs in there. A protein bar and a shake does not even count as a meal. Eat some REAL food. Your stats are pretty bad for someone who is taking steroids. I started out with those stats before I even picked up a weight in my life. You say your a hardgainer but with that diet anyone would have a hard time gaining any weight. Your making newbie mistakes. You can't skip steps. It's like math. You can't do algerbra until you've learned how to add or your gonna mess up. If your unable to eat right due work/school you shouldn't take steroids because they are not magic and without proper nutrition you will not grow!

[RyanAlmighty]

Batman360 and 6ft5...Thank you thank you thank you...those are more appropriete responses that I can work with. My stats are pretty bad in general, hence the reason for the steriods. I just started the cycle yesterday, so my stats don't yet reflect the benefits of steriods. Like you said, I was too concerned with the calories and macros and looked past the quality. I feel bad having to ditch the weight gainer (not only since I just bought it, but I thought the extra 1250 calories throughout the day would help) but I'd like to keep it in there until I at least go through it. In all honesty, I started with the cans of chicken, but they really taste like sh*t IMO. After the responses given, I've adjusted the nutrition as per below:

Nutrition
Meal 1: 6 eggs (2 yolk) with x2 Whole grain wheat toast w/natural PB

Meal 2: x2 Scoops Monster Milk with x2 servings of oats (Only drink half)

(1000mg Acetominophen 45min prior to combat DBol headaches)

WORKOUT

Meal 3: x2 Scoops Monster Milk with x2 servings of oats (Other half)

Meal 4: x2 Tuna or Salmon Packets with x2 servings whole grain rice

Meal 5: x1 12in. Turkey sub on Wheat Bread or x1 Can of Chicken and x2 servings whole grain rice

Before Bed: x2 Scoops Casein Powder

Throughout Day: x1 Serving Mass Shake

Calories: ? Fat: ?g Carbs: ?g Protein: ?g


I'm hoping this resembles a more sound plan for my goals?

[tjax03]

What we are trying to get across to you is that your stats thus far are not great most likely because your diet has been bad. Everyone wants to blame lack of muscle on a high metabolism but even with steroids if you don't eat properly you wont get the results you are looking for. By making the changes you have just done and really getting the rest of the diet down you could make great gains naturally. Steroids are a bit of a waste at this point. You are only 22 and have plenty of time to grow. Why do you want to endanger your HPTA just for a little shortcut?

[RyanAlmighty]

What we are trying to get across to you is that your stats thus far are not great most likely because your diet has been bad. Everyone wants to blame lack of muscle on a high metabolism but even with steroids if you don't eat properly you wont get the results you are looking for. By making the changes you have just done and really getting the rest of the diet down you could make great gains naturally. Steroids are a bit of a waste at this point. You are only 22 and have plenty of time to grow. Why do you want to endanger your HPTA just for a little shortcut?

The same reason everyone else on this forum wants to endanger their HPTA. I HAVE muscle and a very lean, tone, athletic body - I've just found gaining weight (muscle, fat, etc) to be an impossible task whether I am eatting right or not. I've been on my "diet" (the first one listed in this post) for a couple months now and I've gained almost 25lbs. with my current workout schedule. The nurse that took my vitals just the other day almost had a heart attack because of how much weight I have gained since my last visit (I'd say about three months - medications that I am on require frequent doctor visits). This was all without steroids. I knew my diet lacked because of the real food factor, but if it was enough then to gain that much, I figured it would be enough to grow on AAS also?

I've been working out with the current diet/exercise routine for a couple months before I decided to use AAS. I didn't jump into all of this "cold turkey". Weight gain is all about the numbers...eat more calories than you burn and you gain weight. After calculating my BMR, BMI, etc., I figured the 3700 calories would be more than enough to supplement my growth - whether it came from real food or not.

If I could make great improvements with the above changes naturally, wouldn't I make even greater improvements with AAS?

Everyone always likes to comment when they see someone's age and how they shouldn't be using...when is the proper time then? Is it based on age? Years of training? If a 22 year old has the same years of training under their belt as a 34 year old, what difference does it make? What's the cut off point between it being okay for someone to use, and not okay?

[tjax03]

The same reason everyone else on this forum wants to endanger their HPTA. I HAVE muscle and a very lean, tone, athletic body - I've just found gaining weight (muscle, fat, etc) to be an impossible task whether I am eatting right or not. I've been on my "diet" (the first one listed in this post) for a couple months now and I've gained almost 25lbs. with my current workout schedule. The nurse that took my vitals just the other day almost had a heart attack because of how much weight I have gained since my last visit (I'd say about three months - medications that I am on require frequent doctor visits). This was all without steroids. I knew my diet lacked because of the real food factor, but if it was enough then to gain that much, I figured it would be enough to grow on AAS also?

I've been working out with the current diet/exercise routine for a couple months before I decided to use AAS. I didn't jump into all of this "cold turkey". Weight gain is all about the numbers...eat more calories than you burn and you gain weight. After calculating my BMR, BMI, etc., I figured the 3700 calories would be more than enough to supplement my growth - whether it came from real food or not.

If I could make great improvements with the above changes naturally, wouldn't I make even greater improvements with AAS?

Everyone always likes to comment when they see someone's age and how they shouldn't be using...when is the proper time then? Is it based on age? Years of training? If a 22 year old has the same years of training under their belt as a 34 year old, what difference does it make? What's the cut off point between it being okay for someone to use, and not okay?

Well for one thing at 22 your HPTA is not fully developed yet. Messing with hormones at this point may result in permanent damage, not allowing your system to fully develop. Besides, at this age you should have tons of natural testosterone in your blood. You say you have found it nearly impossible to gain muscle but then you say you gained 25 pounds in a couple of months. Well steroids aren't going to do things any faster than that. I doubt that you have gained 25 lean pounds in 2 months though. It sounds like you are dead set on doing this. My last advice would be to at least leave out the deca. It is a very suppresive drug that has left more than a few guys impotent for years. Are you prepared for such possible effects? Adex isn't going to help with that.

[RyanAlmighty]

I apologize for any misunderstanding...I was referring to not being able to gain weight before I started my current diet. I gained the 25lbs. when I was drinking the god-knows-how-much amount of shakes per day. I'd say the timeframe was more around three months; factoring in I was taking Zoloft at the time (which also causes weight gain).

No, I am not prepared for those such side effects. The only reason I opted to include Deca was because I already have it on hand. I will take that advice and leave the Deca out this cycle. Zoloft has similar sexual side effects, and I don't feel like having to go through 15 five minute rounds to get off again like I'm in a damn boxing match with my dick.

I really appreciate everyone's inputs and comments.

[RyanAlmighty]

Just FYI - the Serious Mass product from ON only has 20g of sugar...

[6ft5]

Good job dropping the deca, I think that's why I started takeing antidepresants. Citolopram very mild it just makes me not care if I get laid. Besides my girlfreind is getting a big gut and ass! It drives me nuts. I put her on a diet! Lmao! I'm not home most the time so she's probly still slamming sodas and candybars..Oh well? I just eat, sleep, work, lift. That's what makes me happy! PS. Diet looks a bit better. Work on macros...I usualy don't wory bout those I eat 50g to 100g usualy 60g protein in every meal, I keep carbs kinda low 400 600. Just eat the most natural caned chx u can. I now it sucks but ya gota do what ya gota do. Put sum garlic and pepper in the cooler to. Redwine viniger, hot sauce, you can get all that shit for free at places to eat just start suplying urself. Plastic forks knifes FREE! Lol! Be prepared!

[RyanAlmighty]

I believe I have my diet rounded out. Either of the last two meals may be substituted for a footlong turkey sub from Subway (440, 6g, 72g, 26g). Also, the whole grain rice portions are rotated between flavors/brands (Uncle Ben's, Knorr Pasta Sides, etc.) I've added spices/bbq sauce as well to hopefully make stomaching the canned chicken a little easier.

Again any comments, questions, concerns are appreciated.


Throughout Day: x1 Serving ON Serious Mass

Calories: 1250 Fats: 4g Carbs: 253g Protein: 50g


Meal 1: 6 eggs, x2 Whole grain wheat toast, x2 cups of Juice, x2 cups of grapefruit, x1 Banana

Calories: 1110 Fats: 32g Carbs: 167g Protein: 45g


Meal 2: x1 Scoop Monster Milk, 1/2 Cup of Oats

Calories: 325 Fats: 7.5g Carbs: 35.5g Protein: 30g


WORKOUT


Meal 3: x1 Scoop Monster Milk, 1/2 Cup of Oats

Calories: 325 Fats: 7.5g Carbs: 35.5g Protein: 30g


Meal 4: x2 Tuna Packets, x2 Servings Whole grain rice

Calories: 500 Fats: 4g Carbs: 74g Protein: 44g


Meal 5: x1 Can of chicken, x2 Servings Whole grain rice

Calories: 640 Fats: 13g Carbs: 72g Protein: 58g


Before Bed: x2 Scoops Casein Protein

Calories: 240 Fats: 2g Carbs: 8g Protein: 46g




CALORIES: 4540 FATS: 70g CARBS: 678g PROTEIN: 303g

[RyanAlmighty]

I'm concerned about my PWO shake not having enough protein...should I add another scoop in with the oats?

[6ft5]

Well some people say 20 30g pre workout. The only reason I drink half is for amino acids in it. I eat one hour prior to workin out, anuher tip is never work out hungry.. This is cheap go buy sum liquid amino acids it is just protien and aminos add it to you shake it won't take much. See how it qworks for u..

[6ft5]

Imo eat 1hr pre workout lift 1 to 1 1/2 eat 1hr post. That's the 3 to 3 1/2 hour between meals. Aminos are used to for workouts. Unless ur on a really advanced nutrition schedual or someones buying ur sup for you. Not saying don't takem trewout the day. Research it.. if it right for u. Ur money.

[6ft5]

Ok iv had 6 subway chx breast already lol., anuther cheap quik protien fix. At walmart 8 chx breast precookd. 20g a pc 6.50

[mg1228]

I believe I have my diet rounded out. Either of the last two meals may be substituted for a footlong turkey sub from Subway (440, 6g, 72g, 26g). Also, the whole grain rice portions are rotated between flavors/brands (Uncle Ben's, Knorr Pasta Sides, etc.) I've added spices/bbq sauce as well to hopefully make stomaching the canned chicken a little easier.

Again any comments, questions, concerns are appreciated.


Throughout Day: x1 Serving ON Serious Mass

Calories: 1250 Fats: 4g Carbs: 253g Protein: 50g


Meal 1: 6 eggs, x2 Whole grain wheat toast, x2 cups of Juice, x2 cups of grapefruit, x1 Banana

Calories: 1110 Fats: 32g Carbs: 167g Protein: 45g


Meal 2: x1 Scoop Monster Milk, 1/2 Cup of Oats

Calories: 325 Fats: 7.5g Carbs: 35.5g Protein: 30g


WORKOUT


Meal 3: x1 Scoop Monster Milk, 1/2 Cup of Oats

Calories: 325 Fats: 7.5g Carbs: 35.5g Protein: 30g


Meal 4: x2 Tuna Packets, x2 Servings Whole grain rice

Calories: 500 Fats: 4g Carbs: 74g Protein: 44g


Meal 5: x1 Can of chicken, x2 Servings Whole grain rice

Calories: 640 Fats: 13g Carbs: 72g Protein: 58g


Before Bed: x2 Scoops Casein Protein

Calories: 240 Fats: 2g Carbs: 8g Protein: 46g




CALORIES: 4540 FATS: 70g CARBS: 678g PROTEIN: 303g

no offense but ur gonna get fat as hell on that diet---diet is 80% of what u are trying to do--training is 15%--aas is 5%

[Reaver.]

Age: 22
Weight: 164.5lbs.
Height: 5"8
Body Fat%: 10%
Chest: 38in.
Biceps: 13in.
Waist: 35in.
Quads: 19.5in.

- You have a 35 inch waist and 10% body fat?

- 13 inch arms.....really bro?...............really?

You can do sooo much more with a proper diet...You dont need AAS

[6ft5]

Imo those calories are a bit high. My carbs are high becuz Im always workn my ass off. U should talk to mg1228 he is real good w diet stuff.

[Reaver.]

Meal 5: x1 Can of chicken

lol...wtf is a can of chicken....that sounds like horrid quality

[Regulator77]

When I was a young bean pole at 165 lb. And 6'4". I had to force feed myself 5000 calories a day mostly from whole food sources, before my body would respond to all the multi joint compound movements I did. So, everyone's advice has been very good Imo.

[Darksyde]

heres one more for trying to talk you out of it. having a high metabolism is a good thing, if indeed you do. it can be your best friend for gaining weight naturally. you just have to eat at the right times and not miss meals. carrying a cooler is a neccesity if you cant access what you need when you need. you have to realize, if you cant gain and hold on to weight now, when you come off your gear you will lose most of what you gain whilst putting your body through a hormone rollercoaster it really doesnt want to be on. this is why we advocate really putting your time in, with training and dieting. and im talking years, not 1 or 2. good luck.

[6ft5]

Can of chick. Is 10g fat 54g pro 0carb.. All natural white meat. Ingredients white chicken, water, sea salt. It is horrid lol! Ill choke it down w 5g pro and 60g carbs whole grain noodles. Season noodles and add red wine viniger sumtimes....after not eating for 3hrs ill eat almost anything.lol

[boxin23]

Can of chick. Is 10g fat 54g pro 0carb.. All natural white meat. Ingredients white chicken, water, sea salt. It is horrid lol! Ill choke it down w 5g pro and 60g carbs whole grain noodles. Season noodles and add red wine viniger sumtimes....after not eating for 3hrs ill eat almost anything.lol

I love the can of chicken thing....can you say Costco??? Get a shit load of it for decent money...really high quality.

I like to add mustard and or vinegar to mine....mix it up and go to town!

[boxin23]

Can of chick. Is 10g fat 54g pro 0carb.. All natural white meat. Ingredients white chicken, water, sea salt. It is horrid lol! Ill choke it down w 5g pro and 60g carbs whole grain noodles. Season noodles and add red wine viniger sumtimes....after not eating for 3hrs ill eat almost anything.lol

Imo eat 1hr pre workout lift 1 to 1 1/2 eat 1hr post. That's the 3 to 3 1/2 hour between meals. Aminos are used to for workouts. Unless ur on a really advanced nutrition schedual or someones buying ur sup for you. Not saying don't takem trewout the day. Research it.. if it right for u. Ur money.

I read on this forum in an article that your body is "needing" the most protein and has the highest absorption rate within the first 15 minutes post work out.

[stevey_6t9]

your to young and to light to cycle. knowing you your not going to listen anyway.

my best advice is put your diet in the diet section and we can fix it there. drop the deca and add in hcg throughout the cycle, last thing you want is to permanently damge your HTPA for life.

[6ft5]

I read on this forum in an article that your body is "needing" the most protein and has the highest absorption rate within the first 15 minutes post work out.

That is correct I use a 20 min rule and my shakes have about 70g protein in it. After workout I like 50g slams, 40g is ok w me too w a piece or fruit. I'm not a diet guru but I'm gettn pretty good results on what I do, also I wheigh 238 about 12 bf. Think I gained this week, I wheigh myself every weekend before cheat day I dropt bf and stayed the same wheight, that's ok w me for last week. I tweek it every week a little. Fireguy is also one smart cookie, u should hit him up.

[RyanAlmighty]

- You have a 35 inch waist and 10% body fat?

- 13 inch arms.....really bro?...............really?

You can do sooo much more with a proper diet...You dont need AAS

Yea I am pretty sure I didn't measure correctly..all measurements were taken without flexing and/or a pump. They were also measured my my gf lol. I'm not so much worried about measurements as I am just gaining muscle mass.

[RyanAlmighty]

I love the can of chicken thing....can you say Costco??? Get a shit load of it for decent money...really high quality.

I like to add mustard and or vinegar to mine....mix it up and go to town!

It may have a lot of protien but it definetely tastes like its from a can...I put it in a plastic bowl and drench it with BBQ sauce; makes it much easier to stomach.

[RyanAlmighty]

Imo those calories are a bit high. My carbs are high becuz Im always workn my ass off. U should talk to mg1228 he is real good w diet stuff.

With what my BMR, BMI, etc...all of the fitness calculators says about 4700 calories are needed to gain weight at a 1.5 activity level.

[RyanAlmighty]

no offense but ur gonna get fat as hell on that diet---diet is 80% of what u are trying to do--training is 15%--aas is 5%

Fat because of the fat, or because of the carbs? What do you recommend those macros to range at?

[6ft5]

With what my BMR, BMI, etc...all of the fitness calculators says about 4700 calories are needed to gain weight at a 1.5 activity level.

Wow that's an ass load of cals. I don't think I eat that much but I probly do. Lol. I'm tweekn me all the time depending on how I feel and look.
I've been workn to much this week, havnt had much time for math, ill try and be alittle more helpful this weekend when I get home. Unless one these gurus can help out. Just keep eating till you get it.

[6ft5]

Just looked at your stats again what size is your waist in pant size, if you don't mind. My bicept flex is as round as your leg, but its also bigger than my calf.. lol! I'm workn on that

[RyanAlmighty]

Just looked at your stats again what size is your waist in pant size, if you don't mind. My bicept flex is as round as your leg, but its also bigger than my calf.. lol! I'm workn on that

I'm not 100% the measurements were taken correctly (taken with the help of my gf). I wear a 29-31 waist size pant depending on the brand/style. Also keep in mind all of these measurements were taken without a pump/flex.

[6ft5]

Just wondring I've never meaurd my waist to see if if matched my pant size. I've been able to put on sum my old shorts and they fit. Lol