Deca/ Winny cylce underway!

[ShredBundy]

Alrighty, I started my SECOND cylce this past monday 2/3/03 with the Deca (Brovel- Norandren 200), which is authentic by the way. K, so I have 20ml - 200mg/ml of Norandren 200, and 20ml- 50mg/ml of stanazol. I weight in @ 165lbs, 8% BF, pretty cut up with good mass. Healthy diet, no white breads, lots of egg white, whole wheat, cardio for 30 mins after workouts (5 days on weekends off), OK amt. of carbs (I can get away with not being too strict), tons of <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a>, hydroxycut, milk thistle, cranberry, Joint fuel MSM, and vitamin E oil for the stretches.. My cycle has come to look like this:
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(*note: this is a revised cycle from the original post, so dont mind the following posts too much)

week 1: 200mg Deca
week 2-10: 400mg Deca
week 5-10: frontload 40mg Dbol tapering down after week 6
week 8-13: 50mg (1cc) winny M-W-F


post: Clomid and maybe HCG - any recomendations before i talk to my guy? Havent gotten around to this yet.
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This is were my journal begins, ill have pics soon as well, im assuming its all JPEG format? right...Thanks

[majorpecs]

Not how i would have laid out my cycle, it seems to be one that will shut you down hard and tapering has been proven inneffective...

but other than that..GOOD LUCK!!

[ShredBundy]

recommendations are appreciated... im not seing a taper here (lowering dosages ya know?!?), but the winny's place maybe. too long, start too early?

[Decoder]

your tappering the winny,
week 4-9: 300mg Deca, 50mg (1cc) winny M-W-F
week 10: 300mg Deca, 50mg of remaining winny M-W

why not start winny week 6 take 50mg every other day so that the 20 ml bottle lasts 5 weeks wich is much better, 6 weeks of winny isnt a great idea. I would start HCG 3 weeks after last decca shot, if your going to do hcg. Personally if i had to do that cycle i would start winny week 8.

[sd11]

1.How would your supplier know how you react especially since you have never used either of the above mentioned compounds before?
2.Why are you only running deca at 200mg in the first week, IMO run it 400mg ew the entire time
3.Your not using enough winny ew....50mg ed or 100mg eod
4.Your winny should end 3 weeks after your last deca shot so you can start clomid within two days i.e (deca 1-10 winny 8-13)
5.You don't need hcg IMO and you can't start clomid that soon...you have to wait 3 weeks after your last shot of deca, or listen to what I wrote above
6.Where's the test, it should be the base of every cycle IMO
7.I would suggest holding off on the cycle and doing a lot more research

[majorpecs]

why not try something a little more traditional like this?

weeks 1-10 test enanth 400mg/week
weeks 1-10 decca 400mg/week
weeks 5-12 winny 50mg/ed

[Decoder]

weeks 5-12 winny 50mg/ed <- 7 weeks could be hard on the liver.

[majorpecs]

Actually...it's 8 weeks...but I was under the impression that injectable winny wasn't toxic like the winny tabs??? Am I wrong??

[Decoder]

You are right injectable isn't as toxic as tabs, but taking winny that long is a risk. 4-5 weeks is long enough.

[Decoder]

5.You don't need hcg IMO and you can't start clomid that soon...you have to wait 3 weeks after your last shot of deca, or listen to what I wrote above

sd11 it would be a good idea to take hcg after deca. Ive seen a few posts where people say not to take hcg after deca and sus what is your reasoning? After any time of test example Prop, or deconate , you supress natural test so why not raise it naturally with hcg?

[sd11]

I think HCG is basically useless IMO!!

[Decoder]

Why?

[sd11]

Well for starters a lot of people misuse it....like you outlined above suggesting taking it after deca. There seems to be some belief that post cycle HCG aids in natural test recovery....well thats not true and using HCG post cycle is actually counter productive. When you use it post cycle...you not only have a rise in testosterone, but estrogen as well due to aromitization from the HCG. This actually worsens HPTA function and recovery. Bottom line, it will not restore natural test production, clomid is proven, cheaper, and more effective.

[Decoder]

if you take hcg for to long at to high of doses it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function. theres alot of debate about hcg...some people like to run it on every sat and sun day of there cycle and some use it midway and at the end...occasional injections of HCG during a cycle can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment.what works best for me is the way i have it layed out..later bro..Madmax.. <- by madmax.

[Decoder]

Well sd11 i'm going to have to disagree, on the part where you said hcg does not restore natural test, because after my last heavy test cycle, i took hcg, and had blood work done and my test level's where balanced. So the hcg did it's job. I agree with you on clomid, but i still think HCG works in restoring test level's.

[sd11]

Well I have to disagree and would love for you to show me some proof backing your claim. HCG has two purposes.....increasing sex drive and helping with testicular atrophy. Bottom line is the idea that HCG post cycle will restore natural test production is nothing more than a groundless theory. All I know is that HCG like I said before causes a rapid rise in test levels as well as estrogen levels which further inhibit HPTA function. Decoder...I'm not here to argue with you, if you think it's a good idea using HCG post cycle go right ahead, I just disagree it's very counterproductive. I just don't think you should be suggesting taking HCG post cycle as a good idea to others, it's not. My advice to anyone who reads this if your going to use HCG only do it mid cycle to the time before you start your clomid therapy.

[ShredBundy]

taking winstrol the last 3weeks after discontinuing deca is still effective correct? See to me this does make more sense and is what I originaly planned to do, but friends suggested otherwise.. ok lets forget them now.. Id like to to present this revised cycle:

week 1: 200mg deca (too late to change cause i already took it!)
week 2-10: 400mg deca
week 8-13: 50mg winny EOD

Thus leaving last 3 weeks of just winstrol, and then clomid therapy. Now this debate on HCG is another story. Im not even sure if I will need it, clomid should be enough, or perhaps i should invest in some nolvadex, proviron etc? For my body wt. of 164lbs, 400mg og deca wont be outa control? It's 2mg per lb., correct me if im wrong. 400mgs a week for 9 weeks is nice because with the already used 200mg from week 1, I will use 19ml in total leaving 1ml for that little bit always lost in the pin after injection- so none will go to waste, not like I have to use all of it in the first place, but just being optimistic here. Bust out the feedback, thanks for the input guys, your a big help. tty soon I hope

[ShredBundy]

im thinking 350mg a week is sufficient. my lifting partner thinks 400mg a week is nuts... but he is nuts so this is messin with me.. Im down on the week 8- on of winstrol tho. thats a must, i cant end deca and winny on the same week and have 3 weeks of nothing and then start therapy... wow this shouldnt be an issue.. ammusing tho isnt it? lol

[sd11]

Looks a lot better bro, all i can say is run the deca 400mg ew and try and get some more winny and run either 100mg eod or 50mg ed. Good luck!

[ShredBundy]

Thanks SD... now week 8: every monday will be deca and winny seperatley, 2cc's is the max. i should be plunging into a given site right? 3ccs in the same would be outa the question im assuming.. ouch.. and week 13: 100mgs ed clomid, week 14 clomid 50mgs ed. longer? This is what my post cycle looked like last time, but this is a whole new level here, just trying to get as much input as possible, site researching can only go so far as to actual expearienced users.. thanks again guys.. train hard

[majorpecs]

You can inject 3cc's...just make sure it's a quad or glute!!

[ShredBundy]

Took 400mg today, little bit of a burn. Hit a surface vein probably. No problem tho, im taking pictures tonight so those will be up by the end of the week hopefully. Thanks for the assistance boys!

[ShredBundy]

Waiting for the pics fellas.... Anyways, I got a total of 600mg pumpin in me now and my weight this week is 164lbs. A 4lb. increase over the past 2 weeks?!?... could this be water? Ive been working real hard the past few weeks so its probably just hard work paying off along with my diet and increase in protein intake. I dont expect to see anything drastic until week 4 or so, this cycle is pretty damn mild compared to others.

As long as i'm here, I am big on music, what are you all into? I like everything from Punk-Rap... For i.e: hardcore like- Everytime I Die, Hopefall, Poison the WEll, Burnt by the Sun, slipknot, 18 visions, Code 7..Oi!/ punk: the Casualties, the Adicts, AAA, Criminals, Templars, Unseen, etc... Rap: Nas, Wu Tang, DMX, busta, 50c, etc nuthin underground.. and ofcourse PHISH, Wishbone Ash, 311, you name it!.. just to name a few if you guys have heard of some of them. Just trying to keep this thread interesting! Lemme know, blast that sh*t!!!

[daturk]

if i was to plan this out it would be like thi s\
week 1-8 400 mg deca\
week 1-8 500 mg test
week 7-11 50 mgs ed winny
and clomid plus nolvadex at the end ,,plus taking that low ofa dose of deca aint going to do you nothing ,400 is avg stick with that 200 is crap imo ,peace

[ShredBundy]

Revised my first entry so people wouldnt be confused about this thread, and cycle itself, so again:
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week 1: 200mg Deca
week 2-10: 400mg "
week 8-13: 50mg winny EOD
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[ShredBundy]

I am snowed in, so gotta hold off on pictures! New Jersey damn you!!!! Shot #3 tommorrow, this week up to 168lbs. Starting wt. was 160... Got real shitty acne the past few days wich is driving me nuts!!! Hopefully its just me and will pass. Finally getting my cycle mentality back, feel like im actually accomplishing something (had a bad week)....Plus its fun because 3 of my friends just started a cycle as well..

[ShredBundy]

I was thinking of throwing in Dbol ed maybe 20mgs.. is it too late? I keep reading all this deca dick shit and made me regret passing up the test. i coulda put in. Should i take Nolva ED as well? Ive actually been hornier lately.. what do yall think? its only 5 weeks 'till i start the winny. Today was shot #3 this morning after a shower, no pain but with a 23gauge 2cc of oil is a pain to get out.. oh yea and damn this relentless snow!

[Doc M]

Blake,

I think you will be happy with your cycle. 400 mgs of Deca and 50 mgs EOD of winny should yield you some solid results. You're right, it's not a hardcore cycle, but I think you will be happy. I have done a Deca and Winny cycle at 300 mgs/ 50 mgs EOD and was very happy with the results. I went up about 20 solid pounds and saw a decrease in bodyfat. My diet and program were very dialed in though so that will certainly make a difference.

I am on my 2nd week of the same cycle and I know that I will respond well to it. I am looking for a conservative gain so I am not as concerned about the huge gain in weight that most are. As far as throwing in Test that is a personal choice. Many believe it should be the base of every cycle, but personally I disagree. If you are looking for dramatic gains then yes, but if you are like me than it's not necessary. I have used test and did not like the sides I had so I discontinued use. I didn't get Deca Dick either so it doesn't happen to everyone. In fact, of the people that I have personally known, none have suffered Deca Dick. I actually had an increase in sex drive so it is hard to predict.

As far as Clomid, HCG, Proviron..Well, I as a Doctor cannot predict if you will need these because everyone reacts differently. I have never used any of those therapies because I did not need them. I did not suffer a huge decrease in sexual drive or mood so I did not take the after drugs. Many do require these so it is a good idea to have them on hand.

You have to take the advice you receive and tweek it to your own body and regimine.

Doc M

[CaliFella]

I agree with decoder on the hcg..I dont know what sd11 is talking about. Maybe he needs to check his research.

[ShredBundy]

well in the mean time.... I had a good shoulder and tricept day today... Holding wt. still @ 168lbs... Shoulders were mad strong today, got extra reps and full sets - failure! Got real warm and all pumped, tri's were full of blood after doing some skull crushers and extensions.. Cant wait till the majority of it kicks in! As for the dBol, I may just buy em and save em for future use.. maybe not its only 100 of em @ 10mgs... well see

[ShredBundy]

...definatley feeling it!!! more on that later

[CaliFella]

right on!

[ShredBundy]

further Dbol info.. I was suggested if I wanted to throw dianabol into my cycle, it would be good to front load it week 5-10. Is this beneficial? I wont come down cause ill be on winny too, and will they effect the gains i get? I dont know anyone with expearience on this so im askin ya'll here.. As for me, week 4 tom. and im taking shape into what I want to look like. Everyone is saying I look bigger this week! (which isnt necessarily a good thing lol) and my friends who know im ON are like "wear a hoody man, or somethin to cover up"... not a bad idea I think.. sorry im soo slow with the pics, ill get some exact gains tommorrow in the gym. As for this past friday, I ended my flat bench (free wt.) set with 95's 5 times! Previous was 80's from like 6-8 reps. EVERYTHING is def. bulking up w/o a doubt! ttyl

[sd11]

CaliFella....maybe I need to check my research? There are times for HCG....but, 1.not on this cycle 2.def not post cycle. If you think HCG use post cycle is a good idea than YOU ARE A MORON!!!

[ShredBundy]

Here are my relaxed Measurements from 2/2/03:

Biceps: 12 1/2 "
Thighs: 19"
Waist: 30 1/4"
Chest: 36"
Calves: 14 1/2"
Forearms: 11 1/4"
B.F%: 8.23%
Weight: 160lbs.

[ShredBundy]

The TTokkyo Test Prop. is my friend's, but it is 100ml/mg in case ya were wonderin. The Deca is Brovel Norandren 200mg/ml (10ml each) and the winny is Stanazol 50mg/ml (20ml vial).

[D1N1SKA]

I just started almost exactly the same cycle. Two weeks into it already. Mine looks like this:

1 wk – Deca 200mg
2 wk – Deca 300mg
3-12 wk – Deca 400mg
11-14 wk – Winstrol 50 mg EOD

Clomid therapy 3 days after last shot of winstrol.

Im 24 years old/6’1/200lbs/been working out over 5 years with some breaks tho and this is my VERY FIRST CYCLE. Im very excited!!! Looking for some conservative/quality gains (20-25lbs). I know im not going to get HUGE on this cycle and im OK with it. Getting huge is not my goal. I decided to stay away from Test on purpose, at least for now. I want to save Test for my second or third cycle.

My problem is that I only have 15 shots of Winstrol (50mgs). And here is my question to the board:

Would it worth the trouble/money for me to get another 15 shots of winny? So that I can do 100 mg every other day instead of 50 mg. In other words, how significant is the difference in the results you get from using 100 compared to 50mgs?

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Peace

D

[ShredBundy]

Sorry i havent been on in over a week! Week 7 tommorrow, week 5 the deca FINALY really hit me, plus the 40mg dbol didnt hurt! Ill give you guys something worthy of reading tommorrow after the gym and hittin the scale. start winny in 2 weeks, cant wait! All ive been getting lately is compliments regarding the mass ive gained so far. And yea shop rite lost my film so I have no decent before posing pics, but ill put up some mid cycle pics to give you some visual aide.. tty manana

[ShredBundy]

Start winny tommorrow! Any info on loading winny and deca into the same pin would be very helpful. Tommorrow week 8, i will be running deca 400mg, winny 50mg m-w-f, and Dbol 20mg ed. Up a solid 10lbs from 160-172. My gym got a whole new rack of IVANKO free wt.'s, I felt like a child on X-mas when i walked in and saw those beauties... Spring is coming, along with my winny Im running carbs real low, and doing cardio ed along with ab excercises for the beach! Its been so nice out it motivated me to start early.

My pictures never came through, and I have been crazy occupied with my band, school work, etc etc to update this thread, so I apologize... So here are some + updates from were I last left off:

This cycle didnt even get started until week 5 right when the deca hit me and I decided to frontload 40mg's of Dbol that week tapering down to week-10. So with that in mind, first ill get into the mental and physical looks of things. Boom without doubt, im blessed with a awesome metabolism, so with the increase in muscle, ive shed BF w/o changing carbs in diet too much (i only eat healthy tho, no junk). So this = vascularity. My arms are exploding with veins the most noticeably, and first time ive noticed veins in my legs and def. in my calves busting out. Im not retaining alot of water at all. my weight has been slow and steady but all lean weight, not "watery" looking i guess. My partner thinks that, once again, ill keep most of my gains. Luckily no word of my useage has been let lose, but people have definatley noticed the size change. I get little punches or shoves ( to test my durability?) from friends just to mess with me, or friendlier greetings from the girls especially which im not complaining about.. The past few weeks older guys at the gym come to me to ask training advice and tips. Alot for arm training because my biceps are definatley one of my best features.

My protein intake is strict and plentiful with about 200g a day. I use 95's to rep on flat bench, but tommorrow will bring a whole new list. As for SIDES: Some acne, and mood swings, anxiety, and sometimes depression for no reason come out every now and then. That I think I owe to the Dbol, I remember being an angry mess on some days last year, so I just swollow my pride and stick it out and keep to myself so I dont affect others from my drug induced mood (people are generaly nicer when they see you keep to yourself anyways).... lemme try to get back into this forum while i still have a few important weeks to come.... On a scale of 1-10, ill rate this cycle a 7 because of the solid gains I feel im getting, its been mild on me on the negative side, and my excellent response to it gives it a thumbs up in my opinion. ttyl

[ShredBundy]

again: Some other info on cycle progress:

-Im up a total of 12lbs.. 160-172 (I put on 10lbs in around 3 weeks! but now its steady and I think the gains are here to stay, but only time will tell)

-Dumbell bench press: 4 sets ending on 4 reps with 100lbs
Incline dumbell bench max is around 80's for 8 reps!
*My bench goes up a few lbs every week- Im gonna max on flat barbell thursday and ill post em here.

-Fat loss (which has always been easy for me) is off the chain! In 2 weeks (week 5-7), my skin is getting paper thin, and my arms, shoulders, traps, calves, abdominals etc, are busting out with new veins every day! I think being extremely vascular is somewhat gross but bad ass at the same time, but so far no one has been complaining thats for sure.
-I should note also I started using hydroxycut combined with a lowER carb diet this week with the start of the winstrol. And ofcourse cardio on top of being outdoors more often due to the random burst of spring NJ got!

-Sides to date are: slight acne (face, shoulders and neck) but ive been tanning which helps greatly, irritability, weird and easily altered moods, testicular shrinkage? a lil, but im not too sure, I have no problem getting it up.. lastly, Im craving food/<a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> all the time (not neccesarily bad, but hey! I dont always have acceptable foods available when im out and about)...
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I apologize for the crappy updates this thread has made. I dont have as much free time as id like to anymore, but I will promise pics. definatley after pics, and im gonna get some current ones if I can fin the damn polaroid!
But as for the whole mentality of the cycle, Ive had more insane days than less... Yesterday my friend came up to me and said " I think you work the hardest out of all of us, and it shows"... I try to take the dbol an hour b4 i train, it definatley gives me a lil boost, and I always phsyce myself out in the mirror and piss myself off to push harder. Definatley works for me! The pumps are great, they definatley lasted longer when I was taking <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=CREATINE" target="_blank">creatine</a> , but w/e.. I would definatley reccomend this cycle to anyone, but like I said earlier, I WOULD have thrown some Test. in, but if your not for that, definatley get Dbol in there! Im a big fan of it, and a nice dose for the first 5 weeks is awesome and gets things going damn quick!
Anyone have questions, please PM me.. and suggestions to my lazy thread let me know.. stay up .

p.s. Oh yea, I also got a job at a local GNC!!! Sweeeeettttt! big discounts, but I get just about everything for free! I got a nice juice connection out of it too! more on that lata