Newbie considering..

[M.iracle]

Ok so Ill keep this as short as possible..

Ive been lifting for two and a half years, I have made some very solid gains naturally, I have gone from 165-195 lbs @ 13% bf.

My major lifts are...

Squat 345 x 5
Bench 245 x 5
Deadlift 405 x 4
Dumbell Chest 105 x 8
Barbell Curl 135 x 3
Leg Press 630 x 5

Pretty above average lifts, the bench is the one that I have found is the hardest to improve.

My diet is extremely clean, (I am coming out of my winter bulk) I am nailing down 4-5 meals a day, right now its centered around high protein, medium-low amounts of carbs, medium calorie. In general its alot of chicken, tuna, salads, a little bit of rice, cottage chesse, and the only liquid im putting down is water.

I have never really used supplements ever, for the past year I have not touched whey, i have done one month of creatine but I really hated the bloated look.

I have reached a crossroad and am seriously considering running a test cycle, heres why...

1) Although Ive been lifting only for 2.5 years my training has been beyon what an average gym rat does, I have learned to listen to my body, I have used the Mike Mentzer HIT program, heavy volume training, etc. and I think I may be reaching my strength potential.

2) My family genetics are not strong, no one in my family is above 170 lean. My background is predominantly indian with a little portugese.

3) My goal when I first started was to be 210-215 at 10 % bf. From family observations I really think I may have reached my potential.

Since I am about 10-15 lbs away from my goal, I have started researching about AAS. Alot of my friends have done it and are doing it, and no brag, I look better than most of them, and they dont believe me when I tell them Im natural.

I do not want to go down the road they have, I literally train like an animal, my ego used to be a major factor as I was always looking to lift big, once I realized I wanted an aesthetic build I turned to the Mike Mentzer concept and it has been working great. I no longer lift using any momentum, it is concentrated lifts, fully engaging the muscle, I literally feel the fibres tearing, my muscle endurance allows me to train to absolute failure to the point where when i put the weight down I can not move that muscle, and my strength allows me to do this with pretty heavy weight.

I want an opinion on doing a cycle now or waiting for a year. I have researched about AAS but I want to do complete and extensive ressearch on every single and specific aspect when it comes to this.

But having opinions via experience does not hurt either..

[Bonesaw]

How old are you? Also if your saying you don't wanna go down that road then don't do it..? I'd wait at LEAST another year probably 2 if I were you (assuming your old enough) and try to get to your goal without AAS. I have no experience in AAS but just my .02 Get some whey and try getting that bench up to! At 195 you should be killing 245 on the bench. If it motivates you any bit I' m only 19 at 165 lbs on a good day an for bench I do 250 x 5 reps. An look at my avatar lol. Good luck, don't do it bro!

[M.iracle]

How old are you? Also if your saying you don't wanna go down that road then don't do it..? I'd wait at LEAST another year probably 2 if I were you (assuming your old enough) and try to get to your goal without AAS. I have no experience in AAS but just my .02 Get some whey and try getting that bench up to! At 195 you should be killing 245 on the bench. If it motivates you any bit I' m only 19 at 165 lbs on a good day an for bench I do 250 x 5 reps. An look at my avatar lol. Good luck, don't do it bro!

I was referring to them doing it and not having an amazing aesthetic build, most of them are just bloated with no definition when they take of their shirt....i want to do it to have an amazing aesthetic build. I am 21, and yea for some reason bench has been the most difficult for me to get up. At your weight, your bench is extremley good, you have any tips on my breaking my plateau on bench?

[Windex]

Ok so Ill keep this as short as possible..

Ive been lifting for two and a half years, I have made some very solid gains naturally, I have gone from 165-195 lbs @ 13% bf.

My major lifts are...

Squat 345 x 5
Bench 245 x 5
Deadlift 405 x 4
Dumbell Chest 105 x 8
Barbell Curl 135 x 3
Leg Press 630 x 5

Pretty above average lifts, the bench is the one that I have found is the hardest to improve.

My diet is extremely clean, (I am coming out of my winter bulk) I am nailing down 4-5 meals a day, right now its centered around high protein, medium-low amounts of carbs, medium calorie. In general its alot of chicken, tuna, salads, a little bit of rice, cottage chesse, and the only liquid im putting down is water.

I have never really used supplements ever, for the past year I have not touched whey, i have done one month of creatine but I really hated the bloated look.

I have reached a crossroad and am seriously considering running a test cycle, heres why...

1) Although Ive been lifting only for 2.5 years my training has been beyon what an average gym rat does, I have learned to listen to my body, I have used the Mike Mentzer HIT program, heavy volume training, etc. and I think I may be reaching my strength potential.

2) My family genetics are not strong, no one in my family is above 170 lean. My background is predominantly indian with a little portugese.

3) My goal when I first started was to be 210-215 at 10 % bf. From family observations I really think I may have reached my potential.

Since I am about 10-15 lbs away from my goal, I have started researching about AAS. Alot of my friends have done it and are doing it, and no brag, I look better than most of them, and they dont believe me when I tell them Im natural.

I do not want to go down the road they have, I literally train like an animal, my ego used to be a major factor as I was always looking to lift big, once I realized I wanted an aesthetic build I turned to the Mike Mentzer concept and it has been working great. I no longer lift using any momentum, it is concentrated lifts, fully engaging the muscle, I literally feel the fibres tearing, my muscle endurance allows me to train to absolute failure to the point where when i put the weight down I can not move that muscle, and my strength allows me to do this with pretty heavy weight.

I want an opinion on doing a cycle now or waiting for a year. I have researched about AAS but I want to do complete and extensive ressearch on every single and specific aspect when it comes to this.

But having opinions via experience does not hurt either..

Your only 20 years old, you have another 5 years ahead of you before you should be taking AAS. You haven't reached your genetical potential. Being at your genetic potential means you can workout for 4-5 months properly with a real diet means you have plateau'd. Secondly, the only way to know you've stopped growing physically in terms of height and shoulder broadness is to get X-rays done to see if your growth plates have closed. 10-15 lbs away from your goal could easily be achieved naturally.

Not using supplements doesn't make any sense. Most are complete crap - but Whey, Fish Oil Pills, and a Multivitamin are essential. 2.5 years of training is NOTHING. Many members here took 6 years of training before touching AAS.

Your diet isn't as good as you think it is, post it in the diet section and you will see that it has a great deal for room for improvement. 4-5 meals/day is NOT enough. 6-8 meals are standard. What you eat is just as important as WHEN you eat, and how much you eat at each meal.

You have a lot of research to do in dieting and training.

Your lifts are not above average, maybe relative to yourself or the rest of your gym, but in comparison to most recreational (Ie - non-pros) they are fairly average for 3 yrs deep into training.


You also posted this in the wrong forum.

Also, this:

AAS: Things to consider before starting a first cycle (Great Read)

This is a article I wrote for MD online, due to all the newbies around here i feel I should post it here.



Discipline and dedication are principles that you are going to have to master if you are serious about bodybuilding, being consistent with your diet and training will help you succeed in achieving your goals. Don't have tunnel vision in thinking you will only build muscle if your taking AAS, below are some of the main principles you need to consider before taking any AAS


AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT. Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

[M.iracle]

Your only 20 years old, you have another 5 years ahead of you before you should be taking AAS. You haven't reached your genetical potential. Being at your genetic potential means you can workout for 4-5 months properly with a real diet means you have plateau'd. Secondly, the only way to know you've stopped growing physically in terms of height and shoulder broadness is to get X-rays done to see if your growth plates have closed. 10-15 lbs away from your goal could easily be achieved naturally.

Not using supplements doesn't make any sense. Most are complete crap - but Whey, Fish Oil Pills, and a Multivitamin are essential. 2.5 years of training is NOTHING. Many members here took 6 years of training before touching AAS.

Your diet isn't as good as you think it is, post it in the diet section and you will see that it has a great deal for room for improvement. 4-5 meals/day is NOT enough. 6-8 meals are standard. What you eat is just as important as WHEN you eat, and how much you eat at each meal.

You have a lot of research to do in dieting and training.

Your lifts are not above average, maybe relative to yourself or the rest of your gym, but in comparison to most recreational (Ie - non-pros) they are fairly average for 3 yrs deep into training.


You also posted this in the wrong forum.

Also, this:

AAS: Things to consider before starting a first cycle (Great Read)

This is a article I wrote for MD online, due to all the newbies around here i feel I should post it here.



Discipline and dedication are principles that you are going to have to master if you are serious about bodybuilding, being consistent with your diet and training will help you succeed in achieving your goals. Don't have tunnel vision in thinking you will only build muscle if your taking AAS, below are some of the main principles you need to consider before taking any AAS


AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT. Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

I have read that and I realized Im not physically ready to get on AAS yet. Im going to spend my time researching as muchh as I can about it now that I am here. I'll give you a sample of my diet ...

Breakfast:
2 whole eggs
2 slices whole wheat bread
Water
small portion of either chicken or turkey

Mid Lunch snack
Chicken Sandwhich
water

Lunch
tuna salad or sandwhich
cup of yogurt
bannana

Workout at 3

Post Workout Meal
cup of rice, either two chicken breasts or fish fillets or beef
salad
2 slices of whole wheat bread
water


Before bed
cottage cheese
1 slice of bread with peanut butter
water


I really need to buy protein. For 2.5 years of lifting what should my lifts be in the next three months, assuming i stick to my diet and incoorporate more protein and vitamins, also assuming i have an extreme work ethic, based on my progress this far

[Windex]

I have read that and I realized Im not physically ready to get on AAS yet. Im going to spend my time researching as muchh as I can about it now that I am here. I'll give you a sample of my diet ...

Breakfast:
2 whole eggs
2 slices whole wheat bread
Water
small portion of either chicken or turkey

Mid Lunch snack
Chicken Sandwhich
water

Lunch
tuna salad or sandwhich
cup of yogurt
bannana

Workout at 3

Post Workout Meal
cup of rice, either two chicken breasts or fish fillets or beef
salad
2 slices of whole wheat bread
water


Before bed
cottage cheese
1 slice of bread with peanut butter
water


I really need to buy protein. For 2.5 years of lifting what should my lifts be in the next three months, assuming i stick to my diet and incoorporate more protein and vitamins, also assuming i have an extreme work ethic, based on my progress this far

Repost your diet in the diet section and I along with other people will help you out. For starters, you need to calculate your TDEE/BMR and all the diet information is found in the stickies.

Above is a good diet for a healthy lifestyle, but overall poor for bodybuilding for multiple reasons. Again though, post it in the diet section and I'll go more indepth.

[M.iracle]

Repost your diet in the diet section and I along with other people will help you out. For starters, you need to calculate your TDEE/BMR and all the diet information is found in the stickies.

Above is a good diet for a healthy lifestyle, but overall poor for bodybuilding for multiple reasons. Again though, post it in the diet section and I'll go more indepth.

ok, i really appreciate the help and straightforwardness, Im glad you post on my thread, it really changes my perspective and I enjoy critical advice more than compliments because it pushes me and gets me out of my state of comfort

[Bonesaw]

About busting through your chest plateau this is the wrong section as well an I would have to see what your chest workouts consist of right now. Maybe PM me it an I can critique it an give some advice if you want? Im sure it will help!