1st cycle: Contemplating an addition; Is it necessary? What am I too expect?

[EatandGrow]

First cycle (Day 21/start of week 4):

Test Cypionate: 300mg week 1 / 300mg week 2 / 400mg week 3 / will go up to 500mg week 3 and stay there???

HGH (Pharmacy grade): 1.75 IUs per day (5 days on 2 days off; I pin 3.50 IUs on the 5th day)

GHRP-6: 500mcg per day (2x day just before breakfast and lunch); Technically, GHRP-6 makes your body release more of its own GH, but it also makes me eat like a horse. Absolutely ravenous appetite about 20 minutes after pinning

Arimidex: 0.5 mg EOD (started second week)

HCG: 500 IUs EOD (started second week)

Secretropin: 4 sprays each night under tongue (it prevents your brain from shutting down its own GH production, which is possible due to the synthetic HGH I am taking)

PCT: Clomid

Workout/Diet: Gym 5 days a week; concentrate on one major each day (Chest; Legs; Back; Shoulders; Arms); Begin each workout with 2 sets of pull-ups and push-ups to fail; do ~150 push-ups at night every other night

3,500 - 4,000 cal/day; 160-200 g of protein daily; No junk food; No soft drinks; no coffee; Only WATER; drink water all day long

Profile before starting cycle: 5' 9" / 145 lbs. (athletic, slim)

Impressive gains so far:

I weighed in this morning at 165 lbs.; Shoulders rounding out nicely and neckline really looking much sharper and bigger (my neck grew 1" already!);

Noticeable difference in overall size (and water weight yes), muscle tone and strength

Last night I put up 185 lbs. flat bench unassisted 3 reps; then went to a max rack with safety pins and put up 205 lbs. 1 rep (I had no spotters);

I don't know what my max was before starting but I was never able to put up those numbers, that much I do know.

However, flexibility is also greatly diminished (sometimes I have difficulty bending over to tie my shoes). Foot pain from extended walking is also severe (is this common???)

Water weight fluctuates but when I take my socks off before the gym there looks to be a 1-2" sudden drop-off in ankle width at the sock line (quite funny actually)

Joint stiffness and joint burn is rather high I think. I get a deep body massage once a week and walk-out feeling like superman, however, the joints tighten a few days later and the pain after working out is severe (especially in the shoulders) no matter what major I am working, with the exception of the legs.

Here's my goals and my concerns/questions:

Weight: 185 lbs.

Flat bench: 275 lbs.

I'm thinking of running the above cycle for a full 12 weeks and then continue running the HGH until I get absolutely shredded!

I've heard that Deca is good for the joints so I'm thinking about adding this to the cycle. Is this a good idea? How should I do it? 250mg Test C / 250mg Deca? 300mg Test C / 200mg Deca?

Should I just continue the cycle I am on?

What can I expect in the coming weeks? Will I hit my goals at my current pace?

I am 31 years old. I have a healthy appetite and have always been active in the gym. I tried the typical weight gainers / whey protein, etc. a few times and it would always take me about 3 or 4 months to put on about 15 pounds and I would have an incredibly difficult time keeping those gains (very high metabolism). Gaining strength has always been a challenge (weaker physiology of my muscles). I did about 3 months of research and then consulted with a hormone clinic. They ran a suite of blood work and analysis. My free testosterone levels came in significantly below normal. The deca was a recent idea that I wanted to vet through these forums.

I am a newbie to the practical application of AAS and could benefit from the experience and advice in these forums.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Sulixe]

so much wrong, i dont even know where to start.

Why ramp the dosage of a long ester test?
Why only clomid for PCT?
Why run such a low dose of hgh, it won't give u any results at that dosage, especially at your age. you need like 3.5 UI ed for fat loss and like 6+ UI ed for mass gains.
you're trying to bulk, yet you say you want to be "completely shredded" using hgh. Not only is your dose insuficient but why would you need such a dangerous compound if you have a fast metabolism??
160g of protein daily. Are you serious? i get that in a single meal. thats the reason you're skinny. you have no idea how to eat.
NO deca running, stick to test only for a first cycle.
you're just gonna bloat then lose it all when you come off cycle.

you've got no idea what you're doing

[smashingbox]

Jesus man how about helping someone who is asking questions without the arrogant superiority complex overtone?

[EatandGrow]

so much wrong, i dont even know where to start.

Why ramp the dosage of a long ester test?
Why only clomid for PCT?
Why run such a low dose of hgh, it won't give u any results at that dosage, especially at your age. you need like 3.5 UI ed for fat loss and like 6+ UI ed for mass gains.
you're trying to bulk, yet you say you want to be "completely shredded" using hgh. Not only is your dose insuficient but why would you need such a dangerous compound if you have a fast metabolism??
160g of protein daily. Are you serious? i get that in a single meal. thats the reason you're skinny. you have no idea how to eat.

NO deca running, stick to test only for a first cycle.
you're just gonna bloat then lose it all when you come off cycle.

you've got no idea what you're doing

Good thing you consume 160g of protein every meal because 110g of that goes unprocessed. The human body can only process at most 50g of protein every 3 hours, congratulations on your efficiency! The 1g of protein daily for every pound in weight is a tried and true rule of thumb, especially for someone who weighs 145 lbs. and has a demanding day job that limits their bandwidth to dedicate energy towards constant eating.

If you read my post I said that I plan to bulk first then discontinue the test and continue the HGH to shred. Any knowledgeable person on the matter knows that 1.75 ius daily is all anybody needs to show gains (both bulk and cut depending on workout routine) and to allow for continuous HGH usage for long periods of time. It is an absolute myth that one needs to dose at significantly higher levels to show improved gains.

And if you think HGH is a "dangerous" compound (especially more dangerous than test), well then you have no idea about HGH.

And pyramiding long esters is not uncommon, maybe not usual for a 1st cycle, but it's certainly not an unorthodox technique.

Thanks for absolutely no constructive feedback.

[EatandGrow]

Jesus man how about helping someone who is asking questions without the arrogant superiority complex overtone?

Thanks smashingbox. See my response to sulixe.

[Sulixe]

Good thing you consume 160g of protein every meal because 110g of that goes unprocessed. The human body can only process at most 50g of protein every 3 hours, congratulations on your efficiency! The 1g of protein daily for every pound in weight is a tried and true rule of thumb, especially for someone who weighs 145 lbs. and has a demanding day job that limits their bandwidth to dedicate energy towards constant eating.

If you read my post I said that I plan to bulk first then discontinue the test and continue the HGH to shred. Any knowledgeable person on the matter knows that 1.75 ius daily is all anybody needs to show gains (both bulk and cut depending on workout routine) and to allow for continuous HGH usage for long periods of time. It is an absolute myth that one needs to dose at significantly higher levels to show improved gains.

And if you think HGH is a "dangerous" compound (especially more dangerous than test), well then you have no idea about HGH.

And pyramiding long esters is not uncommon, maybe not usual for a 1st cycle, but it's certainly not an unorthodox technique.

Thanks for absolutely no constructive feedback.

Ok bro, why ask for advice if you already know EVERYTHING?

I was dramatizing when i said i was eating 160g per meal. but i get about 450 prot a day over the span of 7 meals. your 160g is nothing

Food remain in the stomach up to 6 hours after consumption, meaning that evne if your meal has more than 50g, itll take longer than 3 hours to process it, unless its whey protein or another fast-digesting non-meaty meal.


1.75 UI of HGH at 31 years old won't give you any benefit. go read some about HGH experiences.

GH can lead to permanent paralyzis of your hands, difformity of your face and growth of your intestines to a GH gut, as well as growing all your organs.
Steroids may result in bitchtits and TRT, or at worst liver diseases.

Gh ain't a dangerous compound, really?


But as i said, you know everything, so GL with your 160g of daily protein bulk.

GH and deca at 145 lbs. Go ahead bro, you're on the right track.

Lmao

PS: to answer your question directly: no one can predict your results. everyone is different. But with your current knowledge of AAS, GH and nutrition, i'd say you will take about 35 lbs of water weight (deca is pretty good at that), and lose it all a few days after your last injection.

And im not saying that to be arrogant. your flexibility has greatly diminished, to me it looks like you've bloated heavily.
No one gains 20 lbs of pure dry muscle under a 160g of protein diet.

Was that constructive enough for you?

On a calmer note: add nolvadex to that PCT.

Do not use deca yet. Recovery can be harsh especially with a weak PCT, not worth the join support in my opinion. But it's up to you. deca helps with lubrificaiton of joins and some people run a low dose (100mg) in dyhydrotestosterones cycles. maybe you're just prone to joint pain.

i feel the ramping up of a long ester to be a waste of gear.
If you want more test in your system at the end of your cycle, i would rather run 2 different ester testosterones from the start. I had good success doing that at combining propionate with enanthate or decanoate. Prop will kick after 2 weeks, enanthate after like 5 weeks (for me) and decanoate kicks in at 7th week.

Get more protein. If you eat 6-7 times a day that means you're getting 25g of protein a meal. That's not even the protein contained in a tuna can, and then you're adding the protein from pasta or other carbs you're eating. Eat more meat...

[EatandGrow]

Ok bro, why ask for advice if you already know EVERYTHING?

I was dramatizing when i said i was eating 160g per meal. but i get about 450 prot a day over the span of 7 meals. your 160g is nothing

Food remain in the stomach up to 6 hours after consumption, meaning that evne if your meal has more than 50g, itll take longer than 3 hours to process it, unless its whey protein or another fast-digesting non-meaty meal.


1.75 UI of HGH at 31 years old won't give you any benefit. go read some about HGH experiences.


But as i said, you know everything, so GL with your 160g of daily protein bulk.

GH and deca at 145 lbs. Go ahead bro, you're on the right track.

Lmao

PS: to answer your question directly: no one can predict your results. everyone is different. But with your current knowledge of AAS, GH and nutrition, i'd say you will take about 35 lbs of water weight (deca is pretty good at that), and lose it all a few days after your last injection.

Was that constructive enough for you?

I'm not using deca, just test. And I am on week 4 of cycle and have gained 20lbs and 1" in my neck size. So maybe I increase daily protein to 200g or something, but I'm assuming you are much larger than me so you can't really compare your daily protein intake to mine right? And i would say that your feedback is constructive in that it makes the case for not adding deca, which is the feedback I have received from others. We will still have to agree to disagree on the HGH intake. Some other memebers in another thread of mine agree that 2 ius is sufficient. I also just tried finding a youtube video from one of the better known bodybuilders in US who is adamant about daily HGH intake not to exceed 2 IUs per day but I can't find it anymore. I viewed it about 2 months ago. I took a cycle of HGH about a year ago and pinned 5 IUs ED (3 days on / 2 days off) and found my arms would go numb and my finger joints would hurt like I had carpel tunnel. My gains (and side effects) this time around are much better, more controlled it seems (granted I am taking test and a bunch of analogs). I plan to take the HGH for a long period of time (6 months) so 5+ ius per day is just not recommended.

[EatandGrow]

Ok bro, why ask for advice if you already know EVERYTHING?

I was dramatizing when i said i was eating 160g per meal. but i get about 450 prot a day over the span of 7 meals. your 160g is nothing

Food remain in the stomach up to 6 hours after consumption, meaning that evne if your meal has more than 50g, itll take longer than 3 hours to process it, unless its whey protein or another fast-digesting non-meaty meal.


1.75 UI of HGH at 31 years old won't give you any benefit. go read some about HGH experiences.


But as i said, you know everything, so GL with your 160g of daily protein bulk.

GH and deca at 145 lbs. Go ahead bro, you're on the right track.

Lmao

PS: to answer your question directly: no one can predict your results. everyone is different. But with your current knowledge of AAS, GH and nutrition, i'd say you will take about 35 lbs of water weight (deca is pretty good at that), and lose it all a few days after your last injection.

Was that constructive enough for you?

I'm not using deca, just test. I am on week 4 of cycle and have gained 20lbs and 1" in my neck size (some water retention yes, but not all). There is also a noticeable increase in strength. So maybe I increase daily protein to 200g or something, but I'm assuming you are much larger than me so you can't really compare your daily protein intake to mine right? I would say that your feedback is constructive in that you echo others sentiment to not add deca.

We will still have to agree to disagree on the HGH intake. Some other members in another thread of mine agree that 2 ius is sufficient. I also just tried finding a youtube video from one of the better known bodybuilders in the US who is adamant about daily HGH intake not to exceed 2 IUs per day but I can't find it anymore. I viewed it about 2 months ago. I took a cycle of HGH about a year ago and pinned 5 IUs ED (3 days on / 2 days off) and found my arms would go numb and my finger joints would hurt like I had carpel tunnel. My gains (and side effects) this time around are better and more controlled (granted I am taking test and a bunch of analogs). I plan to take the HGH for a long period of time (6 months) so 5+ ius per day is just not recommended.

[Sulixe]

I'm not using deca, just test. And I am on week 4 of cycle and have gained 20lbs and 1" in my neck size. So maybe I increase daily protein to 200g or something, but I'm assuming you are much larger than me so you can't really compare your daily protein intake to mine right? And i would say that your feedback is constructive in that it makes the case for not adding deca, which is the feedback I have received from others. We will still have to agree to disagree on the HGH intake. Some other memebers in another thread of mine agree that 2 ius is sufficient. I also just tried finding a youtube video from one of the better known bodybuilders in US who is adamant about daily HGH intake not to exceed 2 IUs per day but I can't find it anymore. I viewed it about 2 months ago. I took a cycle of HGH about a year ago and pinned 5 IUs ED (3 days on / 2 days off) and found my arms would go numb and my finger joints would hurt like I had carpel tunnel. My gains (and side effects) this time around are much better, more controlled it seems (granted I am taking test and a bunch of analogs). I plan to take the HGH for a long period of time (6 months) so 5+ ius per day is just not recommended.

I edited the post you just quoted with some useful advice. (see lower part)

I personally tried GH for a moment i have seen no results at anything under 3.5 UI. Your body itself secretes about 1 UI daily, so basically you only get twice the amount of GH in your body, doesn't seem that much to me. GH isn't very anabolic by itself.

Side effects can be avoided by ramping the UI

starting at 1ui the first week, then 1.5, etc...

you started using 5 UI from the start?


Strength increase goes hand in hand with water retention. It isn't really an indicator of real muscle increase. When i do dbol, my bench increases 10 lbs every week until i stop taking it. I keep merely 30% of the strength gains.

Honestly i think you should just stop the cycle, run pct, then try and grow naturally eating 250g of protein daily, at least.


You say you're eating 4000 calorie yet only 160g of daily protein. What are you eating, exactly? i can't really picture yourself in front of a HUGE bowl of pasta with barely half a chicken breast...


you also said you eat healthy. Remember: "healthy" is a broad term.

"healthy" eating could be eating fruit with almonds. Which, in my opinion, would be as bad for bodybuilding as eating a cheesburger with a coke.

[EatandGrow]

Thanks Sulixe,

That is a much more constructive and useful post and I appreciate it. My body is changing rapidly and I'm not afraid to say that i like the changes but I know I need to be careful so that's why I joined this forum -- to receive constructive advice and recommendations so as to avoid previous mistakes made by others. There is a lot of information to process and I will take all of it into consideration. Yes, I had previously started right away with 5 ius daily (prob too aggressive it seems).

[Sulixe]

Thanks Sulixe,

That is a much more constructive and useful post and I appreciate it. My body is changing rapidly and I'm not afraid to say that i like the changes but I know I need to be careful so that's why I joined this forum -- to receive constructive advice and recommendations so as to avoid previous mistakes made by others. There is a lot of information to process and I will take all of it into consideration. Yes, I had previously started right away with 5 ius daily (prob too aggressive it seems).

Mind posting your diet?

[EatandGrow]

Mind posting your diet?

I also posted this in the Diet forum if you want to comment there. Thanks.

1) Breakfast: 5 eggs (1 yolk) and 2 cups oatmeal

2) Muscle milk (34g protein) or bag of beef jerky (42g protein)

3) Lunch: Lean meats cold cuts (8oz. Turkey/ham/roast beef) or 8oz. tuna fish or 12oz. chicken cutlets or 8oz. grilled fish (sole / mahi mahi / talapia) plus 1 cup of macaroni/salad

4) Muscle milk (34g protein) or bag of beef jerky (42g protein)

5) Dinner: Steak (16oz. sirloin or rib-eye) or 16oz. Lamb Chops or 12oz. Fish (grilled bass or cod) or 12oz. sashimi or chinese platter (beef or chicken platter with rice)

6) 2 cups oatmeal or 8oz. pasta plus a Mass XXX shake (2 scoops = 25g protein; I find 4 scoops to be too heavy)

Outside of the muscle milk and mass XXX I only drink water and do so throughout the entire day

On week 4 of a Test C (300mg/week) and HGH cycle (10.50 IUs per week -- 5 days on 2 days off)

31yrs. old; Looking to gain 35 lbs. (5' 9" and 145lbs. at start) -- have another thread that speaks to my cycle so let's try to keep the comments focused on the diet, thanks.