18 week cycle Test E, NPP, Tren E, Dbol, Test P, Winny

[wisephil]

Fronload
test P- 100eod/week 1-4
dbol -70ed/1-5

test E- 1000/week 1-15
tren E- 400 or 500/week 1-15
NPP- 150 3xweek or eod/1-16
Adex- .50ed/week 1-18
Prami .25ed/week 1-16 week
(.25e3d/week 17-18)

(bridge into pct)
test P- 100eod/15-18
Stan- 50 ed/15-18

Hcg - 250x2/week 1-16
(500x2/week 17-18)

letro (on hand)
Liver support-??
PCT 19-24
Nolva ED 40/20/20/10/10/10
clomid ED 50/50//25/25
Aromasin ED 25/12.5/eod12.5/e3d12.5


What does everyone think about my cycle?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
My goal is to gain as much mass as possible while not gaining excess body fat and remaining lean.
I know it all comes to the diet, but I'm just looking for an external opinion, thanks!
Any feedback or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
This is my 5 cycle
I have tried the following, sust, test p, tren a, test c, winny, var, tren e.

[< <Samson> >]

That looks like a hell of a cycle. Looks fine, but I ain't no pro by any means.

[thex95]

YOUR ONLY 21?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me?! Bye bye any chance of natural test production ever again for you

[wisephil]

Not really i have friends who have ran similar cycles and have even ran longer cycles like 24 week cycles and they came out without any problems.

[crunkee]

where did u find his age? IF 21 you r fcking yourself! Way to heavy a cycle

[thex95]

Its on his profile. I'm really curious what are the rest of your stats, height, weight, years training, body fat %

[wisephil]

Im 23 5' "9 185

[wisephil]

Well i mean I'm only 23 years old. I did my first cycle when i was like 18. I did a second cycle and then i tore my hamstring a couple months later. So i was out for like 3 months later on i did another cycle and kept like 15 pounds. Then later that year i tore my right hamstring. I did a cycle last fall and it was sust, deca , tren A for 12 weeks went from 158-195, lost 7 in pct. I was like around 188 after pct, but I've cutting and doing lots and lots of cardio and have dropped to 183 since then. I have kept my calories near maintenance levels. Sometimes carb cycling and stuff like that to break plateaus, but even though i lost weight i feel a bit bigger? My shirts feel smaller and jeans. I will like to continue to cut until i start my next cycle July 16 2012.
Do you guys think i should change anything?

and do you guys think i should add tren a on the bridge? Also is that enough prami? and what do you guys recommend for liver support?


Btw my
Height 5"'9
Weight 183.4 Lbs

[thex95]

Why are you lying about your age now? Your 21. You shoudlnt be allowed anywhere near steroids because you don't know what your doing

[wisephil]

Im not lying why would i need to lie? Theres lots of people that started way younger, some even at 16.
I was here for suggestions, not for people to tell me I'm not old enough.
I understand i should be careful, but I'm still going cycle either way, so thats why i was looking for good opinions, but thanks anyway.

[wisephil]

Im not lying why would i need to lie? Theres lots of people that started way younger, some even at 16.
I was here for suggestions, not for people to tell me I'm not old enough.
I understand i should be careful, but I'm still going cycle either way, so thats why i was looking for good opinions, but thanks anyway.

[thex95]

Nice double post. Your too young, that cycle is way too much for you. You want advice? Don't do a cycle theirs the advice. Learn how to eat and train first

[wisephil]

I do know how to eat haha but whatever bro.

[wisephil]

Or should i just do this instead???
I really really want to do the other one.


Fronload
test P- 100eod/week 1-4
dbol -70ed/1-5

test E- 1000/week 1-12
tren E- 500/week 1-12
NPP- 150 eod/1-12
Adex- .50ed/week 1-16
Prami .25ed/week 1-16 week


(bridge into pct)
test P- 100eod/13-16
tren A- 100 eod/13-16
Stan- 50 ed/13-16

Hcg - 250x2/week 1-14
(500x2/week 15-16)

letro (on hand)
Liver support-??
PCT 17-22
Nolva ED 40/20/20/10/10/10
clomid ED 50/50//25/25
Aromasin ED 25/12.5/eod12.5/e3d12.5

[thex95]

Oh jee wizz you really really wanna do the other one? Well gee golly gosh. Your still too young, you don't know how to eat or train

[< <Samson> >]

I didn't even see that your PF says you are 21.

Hey bro, can you post a pic? I would really like to see what makes you think running juice at a young age is fine.

I been talking to a lot of my distant friends and now 2 admitted to using juice at a young age. Currently they are the most out of shape friends I have.

[wisephil]

I know how to eat and train trust me I'm a gym rat.
The only problem is my injuries, i have tore my left hamstring twice, my right once, i also rotated my pelvis and i have proof if you don't believe me.

[thex95]

I know how to eat and train trust me I'm a gym rat.
The only problem is my injuries, i have tore my left hamstring twice, my right once, i also rotated my pelvis and i have proof if you don't believe me.

Ya email me your torn hamstrings

[wisephil]

[JWP806]

Seems like a pretty terrible idea to me. From my experience on this board, you are not going to hear what you are wanting to hear. Everyone is going to tell you that you are too young and that it is a bad idea. I'm sure that is not going to deter you but just curious, why are you wanting to run so many compounds?

[wisephil]

Because i want to get big without gaining excess fat.
I don't want to get bloated by just running test, deca , dbol .

Plus if i did deca it would be worse because i would have to do 12-16 weeks since it takes about 4-6 to kick in and takes another 4-6 to completely clear.
So i would have to wait until week 18 to start my pct by which time i would probably loose lots of muscle from my experience.
Also i would be wasting the first couple weeks by running deca instead of npp.
I also don't want to do more than 1 or 2 cycles per year.

So i don't want do the typical 8-12 week cycles like most and do like 3-4 a year to me thats too much.
Some even do 10-12 weeks pct for 4-6 then 10-12 more weeks then pct 4-6 then 10-12 more weeks and so on.
I would much rather do a 16 week cycle and another 12 week cycle per year at the most.

You also have to consider the fact that i was an ectomorph so its pretty hard for me to gain muscle
i use to be 16 and 110-20 lbs....so i have come a long way if you really think about it i have gone up to 175 naturally.
But when i cut i tend too lose lots of muscle even with my diet on check and to me thats just frustrating and a complete waste of time.

[thex95]

pffft thats what you look like after taking all the gear under the sun?? Learn how to train and eat dude. Your 21 give it a rest.

[thex95]

I don't know how to eat haha but whatever bro.

fixed

[jasc]

21? Tren for 15 weeks? Hope you don't plan on using your dick for a while

[< <Samson> >]

Crazy on how bad some of us want that "perfect" body.


I can never imagine my Wang just not wanting to work. Uggggh


Good luck bro.

[Dukkit]

Your original post says this would be your 5th cycle?

At your age thats ridiculous.

Imagine what your 8th or 10th cycle will have to be if you have to run all of this for your 5th cycle already?

But if nothing is going to change your mind... then go head. Cycle away. Have fun getting a new kidney at 29 years old.

[Dukkit]

Wait I just read that you went up to 175 naturally, and now, AFTER 4 cycles you only weigh 183?

Dude. Ive ran maybe 5-6 solid cycles and I went from 165 to 240.

You need to work on your nutrition my friend.

Gear doesnt do all the work.

You're def missing a piece of the puzzle.

[wisephil]

I meant to say I do know how to eat and train.
I'm not like most of guys that just go to the gym and lift heavy ass weights with really bad form/technique or rest for 10 min after every set and or go to the gym and finish their workout in 2-3 hours. I only train for 30 min-1 hr at the most.
I know it's all about what you eat and trust me I know how to eat.
I also lift heavy, but not too heavy that I lose my good form/technique.
I switch up on my reps and don't over train.
Yes I have gone up to 175 with really low bf but I'm only 183 bc of all my injuries.
I have gone up from 155-195 using gear but that's not the point bc my bf also went up a lot.
I'd rather go up 10-20 pounds and stay lean than to go up 30-40 pounds and most of it be fat.
The problem is that most guys in these forums think that eating a lot is going to get you somewhere. You don't have to eat 100000 calories, you just have to eat enough.
Say my maintenance was at (2000) i don't just eat 1000 more....i eat depending on if i did cardio. So if i did cardio for 30 min and burned 200/300 calories my maintenance is 2000
i eat +500+600 over maintenance. Trust me i have tried eating 1000+ over maintenance and its just a waste of time bc you get fat. I try to do cardio even when I'm bulking to stay lean as lean as possible.
I know their is a difference in cutting/bulking and most just think you can't get big lean bc they think you should do what all the pro bodybuilders do and thats to go from like 200 to 300 and then drop back down to 220.
I don't want to be a huge as elephant walking around. And this will be my last cycle for a while. Maybe ill do another short one with short esters before next summer of 10-12 weeks at the most.
But i just want to get to around 200 at a really low bf and maintain my self there with really low body fat. I also don't wanna go up 30-50 pounds and then cut and loose 40. I don't want stretch marks.


I have used tren for 12 weeks and everyone over exaggerates about the dick...bc i was horny 24/7 while on tren and i was doing about 300-400 a week.

[Dukkit]

Since you wont listen to ANYONE.

And you seem to know it all already.

Then cycle.

Go head.

Good luck.

[Dukkit]

Its like deja vu with these guys.

"I know how to eat. And I know how to train."

So yes... obviously all else must rely on the gear.

Im pretty sure I didnt think like that when I was a newb.
I sure as hell didnt say it.

Makes me not want to help these kids out anymore.

[wisephil]

Every time i posted in this forum even if i have simple as cycles they all come at me the wrong way instead of helping out....

[wisephil]

What do you guys look like?
Post a picture lets see how big y'all are since you all know how to perfectly eat, train, cycle(and are old enough to cycle).

[Dukkit]

lol

Take a look around.

I got plenty of pics up on here.

But, I dont need to prove myself to you.

Ive been cycling and lifting for many years...

We arent "coming at you wrong"

We are trying to get you to understand the LONG TERM effects that running this many cycles, and that many compounds, at such a young age can cause.

But YOU choose not to listen. So we get fed up and say go ahead, do that cycle.

And still... you dont listen.

So who's in the wrong here?

As for your planned cycle... if you want my advice... here it is.

Lower your test, up your tren . 500 test. 700 tren. Youll get less sides, better gains. And youll look better.
70mg dbol can give ya some bad ass back pumps along with the tren. So be prepared.
Your pct looks fine.

There. Be sure to keep us posted on your progress.

[Dukkit]

Now, if you feel like having more of an in depth discussion...

What is your training routine?

What is your daily diet?

[thex95]

take some more creatinabol

[wisephil]

Monday: Chest
Incline Dumbbell Chest Press 6×15-10 (2 warm up sets)
Decline Barbell Press 5×10
Incline Dumbbell Flys 4×10
Cable Flys 3×10
Dumbbell Pullover 4×10


Tuesday: Quads & Calves
Squats 5×10-12 +(3 warm up sets of 15-20 reps)
Leg Press 5×10-12
Lunges/Seated Leg Extensions 5×10-15
Calf Press (Performed on Leg Press) 6×20
Seated Calf Press 4×20

Wednesday: Back & Forearms
Lat Pulldown 3×15-20 (warm up sets)
Weighted Pull Ups 4×10
V-Bar Rows 5×10
Barbell Rows (Wide Grip) 4×10
Close Grip Pulldown 3×10
Reverse EZ Bar Curl 4×15
Seated Wrist Curls 4×15

Thursday: Hamstrings & Lower Back
Lying Hamstring Curl 5×10 (2 warm up sets)
Stiff Legged Deadlift 5×10
High-Foot Leg Press/ or Long Step Lunges 4×15-10
Good Mornings 3×10
Seated Leg Curl 4×10

Friday: Shoulders & Calves
Seated Dumbbell Press 3×20-15 (warm up sets)
Clean & Press (Explosive Movement) 5×10
Rear Delt Dumbbell Raises/Rear Delt Cable Flys (Alt. each week) 4×10
Seated Military Smith Press (Back of Head) 3×10
Standing Lateral Raises 3×10
Calf Press (Performed on Leg Press) 6×20
Seated Calf Press 4×20

Saturday: Arms
Rope Pulldown 3×20-15 (warm up sets)
Weighted Dips/Machine dips 4×10
Decline/incline/or Flat Lying EZ Tricep Extensions 4×10
Reverse EZ Bar Pulldown 4×10
Ez bar/Olympic Barbell Curls 4×10 (1 warm up set)
Dumbbell Curls/ or Hammer Curls 5×10

Thursday: Cardio & Abs
Cardio: Usually 40-60 minutes on a stationary bike, at a moderate to high – causing a sweat after 20 minutes, increasing the resistance every 5-10 minutes. (I usually also do this 2-4 times a week in the morning before breakfast, but the abs everyday other day or sometimes just 2-3 times a week)
Hanging Leg Raises/or Lying Leg Raises 3×30
Seated Dumbbell Twists/ or Lying Side bends 3×30/50
High Cable Pulldowns/ or weighted crunches 3×30


I do one month of this ^^^ then i switch to this for one month and then switch back to my old one and so on.

Monday
Morning: 30 min of HIIT + Abs circuit
Evening: Lower Back, Hamstrings, Calves
Exercise 1: ½ Deadlifts (Lower Back)- 20 reps x 40% 6-8 rep max, 20 reps x 50% 6-8 rep max, 12, 10, 8
Exercise 2: T-Bar Row (Lower Back)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 3: Good Morning’s (Lower Back)- 15, 12, 10
Exercise 4: Lying Hamstring Curl (Hamstrings)- 20 x 50% 8 rep max, 12, 10, 8
Exercise 5: Front Loaded Leg Press (Hamstrings)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 6: Stiff-Legged Deadlift (Hamstrings)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 7: Seated Leg Curl / Standing Leg Curl (Hamstrings)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 8: Standing Calf Raises (Calves) – 20, 20, 20 Supersetted with Exercise 9 after each set
Exercise 9: Seated Calf Raise (Calves)- 20, 20, 20
Exercise 10: Donkey Calf Raise (Calves) – 20, 20, 20 Supersetted with Exercise 11 after each set
Exercise 11: Rotary Calf Machine (Calves)- 20, 20, 20

Tuesday
Morning: 30 min Steady Pace Cardio and abs

Evening: Chest and Triceps

Exercise 1: Incline Chest Press - Smith Machine (Upper Chest)- 20, 12, 10, 8


Exercise 2: Seated Incline Chest Press – Machine Press (Upper Chest)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 3: Incline Dumbbell Flys – (Upper Chest)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 4: Lying Decline Overhead Extension (Upper Chest)- 12, 10,
8


Exercise 5: Straight Bar Push Down (Triceps)- 15, 12, 10
Exercise 6: Seated Overhead Tricep Extension (Triceps)- 15, 12, 10
Exercise 7: Cable Tricep Extension (Triceps)- 15, 12, 10

Wednesday
Morning: 30 Mins HIIT cardio + . No Weights Workout.







Thursday
Morning: 45 mins Steady Pace cardio on Incline Treadmill, and Abs.

Evening: Quads, Calves.
Exercise 1: Squats - Smith Machine (Quads)- 20, 20, 12, 12, 12
Exercise 2: Leg Press (Quads)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 3: Lunges – Step Backs on Smith Machine (Quads)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 4: Step-ups - 12, 10, 8
Exercise 5: Seated Leg Extensions (Quads)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 6: Standing Calf Raises (Calves) – 20, 20, 20 Supersetted with Exercise 7 after each set
Exercise 7: Seated Calf Raise (Calves)- 20, 20, 20
Exercise 8: Donkey Calf Raise (Calves) – 20, 20, 20 Supersetted with Exercise 9 after each set
Exercise 9: Rotary Calf Machine (Calves)- 20 standard, 20 outwards, 20 inwards


Friday
Morning: 30 Mins HIIT Cario and Abs
Evening: Front Delts, Traps, Upper Back
Exercise 1: Shoulder Press Machine (Shoulders)- 20, 20, 12, 10, 8 – Facing forwards
Exercise 2: Standing Front Delt Raises (Shoulders)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 3: Seated Lat Raises (Shoulders)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 4: Standing Barbell Shrugs - Behind the back. (Traps)- 12, 10
Exercise 5: Seated Dumbbell Shrugs (Traps)- 12, 10
Exercise 6: Wide-Grip Pulldown / Narrow Grip Pulldown (Upper Back)- 12, 10, 8, 10 and 8 close grip underhand,
Exercise 7: Bent-Over Olympic Barbell Rows (Upper Back)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 8: Machine Low Row (Upper Back)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 9: Straight Arm Pull Down (Upper Back)- 12, 10, 8



Saturday- Rest









Sunday
Morning: 30 Mins Steady Pace Cardio on the Stairmaster, and Abs

Evening: Rear Delts, Biceps, Forearms
Exercise 1: Behind-the-Neck Military Press on Smith Machine (Rear Delts)- 2-, 20, 12, 10, 8
Exercise 2: Rear Delt Machine/Reverse of Fly Machine (Rear Delts)- 12, 10, 8
Exercise 3: Underhand Straight Arm Cable Pulldown (Rear Delts)- 15, 12, 10
Exercise 4: Standing EZ-Bar Curl (Biceps)- 15, 12 wide grip, 10 narrow grip
Exercise 5: Single Arm Preacher Curl (Biceps)- 15, 12, 10 with added rotation
Exercise 6: Seated Cable Curl (Biceps)- 15, 12, 10
Perform the next three exercises as a tri-set.
Exercise 7: Overhand EZ-Bar Curl (Forearms)- 15, 15, 15
Exercise 8: Seated Barbell Wrist Curls- 15, 15, 15
Exercise 9: Seated Dumbbell Wrist Extensions (Forearms)- 15, 15, 15



What do I for my HIIT cardio:
30 minutes on an upright cycle/running
30 second sprints allowing as much recovery time as needed for my HR to drop back down to 75% of my MHR.

Abs Workout: (3 circuits with no rest between exercises)


Hanging Knee Raises 20-30 reps
Rope Pull Down 20-30 reps
Double Crunch 20-30 reps
Single-Arm Rope Pull Down 20-30 reps (each side)




Wouldn't running Tren higher than my test give my libido problems since I'm also running npp?

[thex95]

at your age you should run some nothing

[wisephil]

Diet
Calories: 2,848

Protein 45/ Carbs 35/ Fat 20

Protein calories: 1,281.6
320.4 Grams

Carbs calories: 996.8
249.2

Fat calories: 569.6
63.2

Meal 1: 9:00 A.M.
Protein 53.4 Grams/ Carbs 65 Grams/ Fat 12

Meal 2: 11:30 P.M.
Protein 53.4 grams/Carbs 31.1 Grams/ Fat 12

Meal: 3 1:45 A.M
Protein 53.4 grams/Carbs 31.1 Grams/ Fat 12

Weight Training 3:15-4:00 P.M.

Meal 4: PWO meal 1 4:15 P.M.
Protein 25 grams/Carbs 35 (simple carbs)
Usually a a scoop of isolate and a banana & strawberries
Pwo meal 2 4:45 P.M.
Protein 25 grams/Carbs 30 (Complex carbs)
Another scoop of isolate with oats and teaspoon of honey


Meal: 4
Protein 53.4 grams/Carbs 31.1 Grams/ Fat 12


Meal 5:
Protein 53.4 grams/Carbs 31.1 Grams/ Fat 12



Meal 6:
Protein 53.4 grams/Carbs 31.1 Grams/ Fat 12


I dont count my greens/veggies as calories i just eat throughout the day when I'm hungry or not full
I also plan to slightly increase my calories every week.

[thex95]

Interesting, still way too young for that shit

[wisephil]

I've heard of a lot of people doing a cycle where the tren is higher than the test.
So this is what i've come up with

Fronload
test P- 100eod/week 1-4
dbol -50 or 70ed ???/1-5 (50vs70??)

test E- 600/week 1-12
tren E- 700/week 1-12
NPP- 100or 150?? eod/1-12 (100 or 150??)
Adex- .50ed/week 1-16
Prami .50ed/week 1-16 week


(bridge into pct)
test P- 100eod/13-16
tren A- 150 eod/13-16
Stan- 50 ed/13-16

Hcg - 250x2/week 1-14
(500x2/week 15-16)

letro (on hand)
Liver support-??
PCT 17-22
Nolva ED 40/20/20/10/10/10
clomid ED 50/50//25/25
Aromasin ED 25/12.5/eod12.5/e3d12.5


Should i take 50mg of dbol or 70mg everyday? also how much npp 100eod or 150?
I lowered my test 500 and upped my tren to reduce the sides and since tren is must stronger it won't hinder my gains and should be more than enough. I'll just use test at 500 to keep my libido stable and try to grow with mainly the tren and npp dbol but 500 of test should still give me good gains i should don't wanna turn into a pin cushion and tren will keep my gains pretty lean what do you guys think?