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Thread: First Cycle - Standard Protocol

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    First Cycle - Standard Protocol

    Hey guys just joined up on this board looking to expand my support system, my old board died off pretty good. Heres the rundown:

    30yrs old
    5'7" 178lbs 12-15% BF
    12yrs lifting, 6months back after a 3year slowdown raising kids

    Cycle
    1-16wk 500mg Test E/week
    18-22wk Nolva 40/40/20/20 & Clomid 50/50/25/25
    HCG - TBD

    Tomorrow will be last pin of my fourth week. Threw on roughly 5lbs in the few months dialing in my workouts and bulking diet leading up to the cycle and coming up on 10lbs this month since starting. I Irritated dome preexisting soft tissue damage in my shoulders a week and a half a ago so I had to take it easy on arms/shoulers/chest for a bit which actually I think helped as I changed my routine to upper body / lower body split with heavy emphasis on compound lifts like deads/squats/rows/chins getting these big weight lifts in at least twice a week and everything else I've left out has grown enough as supporting muscles. I dont bother with "Arms Day" ect anymore and I love it!

    I've hit PRs on my squats and deads and have a great swell. Feeling more filled out if you will than I ever have. Very satisfied so far with my results after struggling forever to break 165lbs. I did struggle pretty bad with PIP for the first few pins. My first shot in my shoulder crippled my arm for a couple days, 2nd shot I tried my quad which literally made me unable to walk with a swollen lump in my leg for almost 4 days, it was terrible. It feels like my body or muscles were rejecting the test for awhile. Anyway tried my glutes and they seem to be my spot with only slight discomfort for a day or two, with my shoulders only a little more dfficult now that the muscle is less virgin. Still have some to learn about injecting smoother I think, and need to find my ventralglute from what I hear.

    I have some conflicting thoughts on my HCG protocol. I was going to run the entire cycle but it was delayed and I got too antsy waiting and pulled the trigger. Second issue is I am going to mexico for a friends wedding week 17, the day after my last pin.(hence running 16wks so I am not on nolva/clomid in mexico) So I'm looking for feedback on how to include it.

    1) Start running it now, purchase another bottle and run week 5-16 (cant bring it to Mexico).
    2)Or fire my last pin, goto mexico, come back 7 days later and do 500iu/day for 10days then start PCT 3 days late. There seems to be a lot of different opinions on how to incoporate HCG properly and I did just plan to run it throughout so I'm unprepared for any other method.

    Anyway, I'll keep an update or two a week on progress. I'm not much of a picture in the mirror kind of guy but might end up posting some up.

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    Had two of the best workouts of my cycle this weekend. Threw up 365 on deads like it was nothing. Excited to keep climbing my max I love heavy deads. Shoulders are starting to do better under load and carefully creeping weights up on my pressing exercised. I've learned to focus on a few exercises and have found that one arm at a time movements seem to do better allowing me to isolate my pec and keep my front delt out of it.
    Leg day yesterday felt the best I have ever sqautting.

    My pin yesterday I hit my glute as usual, feeling a lot more confidant and calm with it, I used to worry about hitting my sciatic and it was a big event every pin but getting alot more fluid and comfortable. I aspirated, no blood, injected, waiting a few seconds however when I withdrew there was a little bit of blood in the syringe. I'm assuming this is from the vacuum caused by the needle being withdrawn. Any feedback on this? Its happened a couple times though this time was the most I've seen.

    Down and out with a serious stomach flu that hit last night. Feeling somewhat better today but last night was terrible! Expecting to be back in the gym tomorrow.

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    Been 3 days now I havnt been able to eat anything but toast and soup really. My guts are killing me, huge disappointment going this long without high calories and macros, hoping I don't lose too much of the momentum I was gaining and hoping my muscles and joints just appreciate the extra rest. I'm glad I had two vicious workouts prior to getting hit with this!

    Pinned my upper outer glute - best one yet, almost no pain the next day. Although I lost track and accidentally pinned the same glute twice last week, whoops. Going back to shoulder with 5/8 tonight.

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    Got a decent workout in on Tuesday. Stomach is still buggy but finally got my meals back in today. Idk if it's like this for everyone but low calories and macros and lack of water on AAs affected me pretty bad last couple days. I felt 100percent worse than when I was drinking lots and eating lots. Stuffed my face all day, checked my weight and I actually lost a pound or two over the last 4 days which is discouraging but likely water loss from the flu anyway, planning to hit the gym with a vengeance next couple days to me up for it. Im going to post up some before and mod cycle pics next week and scheduled my mid cycle bloodwork for Thursday which will post up with my pre cycle results. Pinned outer glute, starting to pin a little higher and closer to outer quadrant and they are going Way better than any previous pins. Very happy about that after the nightmare pins I had.

    Blood pressure has been up and down, I'm starting to be able to feel when it's a little high, been under a ton of stress last two weeks from work and raising kids (2 of my own with an ex and 1 step kid ages 2, 3, 4). Cut out my armidex this week from reading mainly GHs posts and want to see if I even need it first. Managing the ex will better for my blood pressure than managing my estrogen anyway!!

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    BACK AT IT. Finally cleared of that nasty flu that rocked my gut. Appetite is back full bore and fed hard this weekend and today, added some digestive enzymes to my supplements which are currently Vitamin D, magnesium, fish oil. BP is back within range and I've been off my armidex so I believe it was stress related. Hit legs and chest for the best workout in awhile, I felt my pulse in the forehead at one point during my squats and was pretty out of breath in a weird way, like I couldnt inhale deeply but also wasnt gasping or tired, not sure how to fully explain but, my mind immediately pointed me to being fucked up from test or estrogen but I pushed it aside and decided to man up. Went away after squats, I know what people mean by back pumps now though but I love it. The tightness felt good and felt like it helped my posture.

    Squats 5 sets of 8
    Hack Squat Machine 4 sets of 8
    Standing Calf Raises 4 sets of 8
    Leg Extns superset with Leg Curls 4 sets of 8
    Seated Calf Raises 4 sets of 8

    Incline Bench 5 sets of 8-10
    One-Arm Cable Flyes 4 sets of 10-12
    Dumbell Pullovers superset with Incline Pushups 5 sets of 8
    My chest is quite behind my other body groups due to soft tissue shoulder issues so I have to carefully structure my chest and shoulder workouts around what feels good that day, Upper pecs are my weakest though so I try to focus on Incline when it feels good. Unfortunately when my shoulders say their done, they are done, I've lost the ability to push to failure or train more than a few exercises for now for risk of reinjury. I thought I had it sewn up finally prior to my cycle but it reared its ugly head. Increasing my physio from 1x to 2x a week now to try to get back ahead of it and asking for an ultrasound rec when I ask for bloodwork this thursday to check in on it.

    Last week was unfortunately mostly a write off, I was a little worried it was the test and not the flu after I still felt like shit but I felt great today. Still weighing in a 175lbs. Test has humbled me and I'll be working on my diet to get my cals up. I've never counted cals or macros or weighed food and still won't but I can tell I need some work here to add in extras between meals if Im going to keep packing on the pounds. I also need to commit to waking up at least 30mins before my kids to ensure I get my oatmeal, eggs and protein shake in every single morning. Last week I was slacking and sleeping in and as a result settling for shit breakfasts. I made the decision prior to this cycle that I am here to pack on AAA meat, I dont give a shit about bloating or "lean" muscle, Im here to bulk and Ill cut it down later. I've tried for years to break this plateau and I'll be pissed as hell if I pussy out on it and then come off this cycle at or close to my previous plateau in my prime. Either way - I'm looking a hell of a lot bulkier in the mirror from head to toe, especially my back, lats traps, shoulders all alot thicker and thats exactly what I want.

    New weekly standard for the grocery store
    10x cans tuna
    3 dozen eggs
    2 bags celery stalks to dip into natty PB and for tuna salad
    1 bag of dark chocolate covered almonds
    1 bag of dark chocolate covered cranberries
    1x packages on 2kgs of chicken
    1x package of 1kg fish
    brown rice
    oatmeal
    Bananas
    Avocados
    Berries and Plain Greek Yogurt

    Buy each week and consume by end of week and stop being a pussy! I am also feeding a girlfriend and 3 kids so yeah our grocery bills are no fun already. NO Im not buying that grass fed organic bullshit because Id be in the poorhouse.

    Any suggestions on good additions are welcome...not sure if anyone is actually reading this.

    Only side effects if you could call it that currently are some "bloat" which I actually and enjoying the feeling of fullness in my muscles, although stomach bloat is a little unsightly and uncomfortable but nothing major. Acne is developing on my back, going to increase showers to every morning and every night after workout, got a cleanser with salicylic acid in it, hopefully keeps it down to minor.

    Pinning has gone well, technique and confidence has come a long way, actually looking forward to my shots now. Might revisit quad tomorrow, my first quad shot (2nd shot on cycle) in outter mid quad crippled me for 5 days but I love the idea of the ease of shooting them and adding 2 more sites to rotate so fuck it Imma go at it again.

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    Should also mention I'm slaying the wife pretty much nightly and feels like I'm swinging around a 12lb hammer. She's loving it. Even getting comments on how she's getting turned on by how much of a "man" I am lately lol! I know I'm sweating more but I swear there's pheromones in it now.

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    you asked for suggestions on your diet/shopping list . well I see lots of fats but I don't see any fast acting carb sources (no potatos or white rice for example). just curious what your reason is for this. I see some fruit in there, which has some limited amount of fast acting carbs, but also has fructose which is a carb source that cannot build muscle or be stored as muscle glycogen like glucose can.
    are you trying to maintain your bodyweight and just lose fat? or are you trying to put on some muscle and strength gains ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you asked for suggestions on your diet/shopping list . well I see lots of fats but I don't see any fast acting carb sources (no potatos or white rice for example). just curious what your reason is for this. I see some fruit in there, which has some limited amount of fast acting carbs, but also has fructose which is a carb source that cannot build muscle or be stored as muscle glycogen like glucose can.
    are you trying to maintain your bodyweight and just lose fat? or are you trying to put on some muscle and strength gains ?
    Primary goal is to gain muscle. Strength gains are also certainly enjoyed. Just looking to pack on as much size as I can then maintain and solidify the new size and lean it out down the road.

    Feel free to correct and educate me but as far as fast acting carbs my understanding has always been to limit this to only post workout meal to spike glucose when muscles are most accepting. Otherwise slow release complex carbs is preferred to deliver nutrients and energy slowly and less likely to be deposited as fat. I switched all my rice is brown or long grain, potatoes are sweet potatoes (forgot to add them in). Again, I am being humbled by my metabolism on test and open to making corrections.

    My post workout shake has dextrose, post workout meal I add fruit immediately post workout usually pineapple and actual meal it is usually "junkier" and higher in carbs ie I'll grab a big ass burger, pastas with sauces and proteins, stir fries with basmati white rice. Otherwise I try to keep the rest of my meals fast acting carb free although like I said I know I have a high metabolism and there am certainly not strict so I will grab like 2 big macs with water or smash a giant bowl of spaghetti ect.
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    I didn't plan on using this for more than just an update now and then and the odd question but I'm finding it helps keep me on track so heres some more details.

    Yesterdays back and arms workout was savage, this is going to be a good week. My numbers aren't the highest but I've never been a powerlifter really and usually kept the weights lower, the form flawless and preferred failure techniques like supersets and HIT training. After my 3yr hiatus when I had my kids I lost a lot of strength. 4 or 5 months ago 225 felt heavy again so to be coming up on 400 while weighing 175ish lbs is very exciting for me.

    Deadlifts
    Warmup set x 12 twice
    225 x 8
    385 x 2 twice (400 here I come!)
    315 x 8 three sets
    225 x 12

    Bent over row superset with chins see numbers below
    95 x 12
    135 x 10
    135 x 10
    185 x 8
    185 x 8
    Wide chip chins
    4 sets until I couldn't hit at least 8 per set

    Wide Lat pulldown 140 x 10 two sets
    Close grip lat pulldown 160 x 8 two sets

    Seated Row w/ close grip
    160 x 8 three sets
    Dumbbell chainsaws
    50 x 8 three sets

    Barbell strict curl superset rope pulldowns
    60 x 10 four sets
    Rope pulldowns
    60 x 10 four sets

    Triceps overhead dumbbell extn superset concentration curls
    50 x 10 four sets
    Concentration curls
    30 x 10 four sets

    I've been finding my left Bicep/shoulder refion to experience pain when curling lately. I think it has todo with what I've always believed my shoulder issue but me and my physio have narrowed in on the pec Bicep attachment. It's unfortunate but it's forced me to go a little easier sometimes on my arm workouts now too. I also find it helps to be supported by a bench (preacher curls or machine) or concentration curls as opposed to stand dumbbell or barbell curls, its really restricted the weight on my barbell curls which sucks because I love strict slow heavy curls! Hoping 2x a week physio, adding exercises and stretches helps.

    Anyone else experience this?

    Next post this afternoon will be a template of my diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Primary goal is to gain muscle. Strength gains are also certainly enjoyed. Just looking to pack on as much size as I can then maintain and solidify the new size and lean it out down the road.

    Feel free to correct and educate me but as far as fast acting carbs my understanding has always been to limit this to only post workout meal to spike glucose when muscles are most accepting. Otherwise slow release complex carbs is preferred to deliver nutrients and energy slowly and less likely to be deposited as fat.
    I will say that a majority of clients that I have on weight loss diets or are cutting, I do limit their fast acting carbs to around the post workout window when glut 4 levels are at their highest. and will use things like sweet potatoes and oats for other meals.
    so I think your correct in your thinking here in regards to that aspect. but this has to do a bit more with total energy balance though then it does in regards to the carbs being stored as body fat easier or not (keto advocates will try to lead people to believe that carbs get easily stored as fat, when the truth is the body has to jump through a few metabolic hoops in order to get carbs to store as body fat , where as with actual dietary fat the body has to jump through no hoops at all and will store the fat we eat as body fat directly and without the need for insulin or any other hormone.. dietary fat simply becomes stored fat as easy as that. carbs on the other hand do not, they become glucose and glycogen first and foremost and then AFTER all that is taken care of if your in a surplus the body will go through all the hoops needed for carbs to become stored as fat. but if your giving your body dietary fat, then its going to store that as fat no problem)
    ^ anyhow, small rant. I'm going beyond my point here

    thats more for cutting and diet purposes. but in your situation of having a fast metabolism and wanting to put on some size and strength, then fast acting carbs are going to be a big benefit to you (and not just post workout). fast acting carbs illicit the most anabolic and hormonal responses in the body then anything else we can eat. not only does it illicit these anabolic properties , but it also directly blocks cortisol (which is a catabolic hormone that breaks down muscle tissue).
    I have some of my guys who are trying to put on size running 10iu of insulin first thing in the morning when cortisol levels are elevated along with 50+ grams of fast acting carbs (like a white bagel), for the whole purpose of putting a stop to the elevated cortisol and switching the body over from a catabolic state to an anabolic state. (cortisol is a hormone that plays a role in promoting gluconeogenisis where the liver takes proteins, from muscle tissue or whatever is avail, and converting those proteins into glucose to be used as energy) ... so stopping these processes with insulin and fast acting carbs stops these catabolic processes on top of being anabolic (you don't have to use insulin, you can use a natural release of insulin with the carbs you eat).

    also.. fast acting carbs help drive nutrients into muscle cells at an accelerated rate due to their hormonal effect and larger insulin spike. these carbs, eliciting a large insulin spike, are then driven into cells (via insulin) and along with them amino acids/proteins, nutrients, minerals, creatine, water, etc.. all catch a ride into the muscle cells . it doesn't get any more anabolic then that. this also helps with strength (as carbs are first source needed to generate the production of ATP for muscle activation) and also really helps with recovery (again the carbs help drive various nutrients, minerals/eleoctrolytes, creatine, and hydrate the cell , as that is part of what a CarboHYDRATE does).

    lots more can be said.. but really my opinion is that fast acting carbs illicit the most dramatic hormonal and anabolic processes in the body compared to any other food/macro. which is definitely beneficial for strength, growth, and gym performance.

    now a completely separate topic as to why fast acting carbs may not be the best choice while cutting and trying to lose weight. which is really why its popular to restrict fast acting carbs. when your trying to lose weight or lose fat, your actually trying to put your body in a catabolic (breaking down) state, and NOT an anabolic state (building up). so it makes sense to restrict the most anabolic macro when you have to get your body in a catabolic state in order to lose weight and shed fat.
    but its a mistake when people with fast metabolisms and who want to grow take this popular dieting approach and apply it to their weight gain diet.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 03-13-2019 at 10:46 AM.

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    guys like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler talked about how much protein they would eat . but whats not talked about as much is the massive amounts of fast acting carbs like white rice, white potato, bagel, etc.. they would eat to maintain and gain muscle. Jay was known to eat upwards of 1000 g of carbs per day and that was even while dieting !
    when your running gear/AAS , your need for protein goes way down (because of your new ability to retain nitrogen so well) and you become very good at utilizing carbs for not only fuel but muscle retention.

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    Thanks for the thorough response man. So let's say adding an everything bagel in the morning and another fast carb at lunch or after lunch snack say white bread with my tuna instead of whole grain would be a good idea? Does it matter if consuming fast and slow carbs at the same time or should they be separated? I know I've read that fats should be separated from carbs but I generally disregard that for a waste of my time and energy until cutting. Here's a rough breakdown of an average day for me on a work and training day:

    5:00am wakeup wim Hoff style ice cold shower, bowl of oatmeal w/ 2 tablespoons Natty PB and some berries, 1 to 2 scoops whey protein isolate shake w/ 2percent milk, 3 to 5 scrambled or hard boiled eggs (getting sick of eggs and try to vary my protein source instead of 12eggs a day), 3/4 cup of plain Greek yogurt and some Berries. COFFEE

    7:30 One avocado, Celery with Natty PB, bannana

    9:30 some turkey breast, dark chocolate almonds. Sometimes the 730 and 930 meal are combined in one meal depending on my work schedule that day.

    12:00 lunch - 1 to 1.5 chicken breast (or fish) and brown rice and some veggie ie Broccoli or corn or green beans or bell peppers or leftovers from the wife's dinner night before (see dinner options below)

    3 or 4pm again dependant on how busy work is for me - 1 can tuna w/ 1 tablespoon Mayo, chopped Celery and green onion. Sometimes on whole wheat bread as a sandwich sometimes just with a good ol fork. My tuna salad is money. Handful chocolate covered cranberries.

    530pm Snap necks and cash cheques at the gym. Standard plain Jane preworkout, plain Jane BCAAs intraworkout.

    700pm post workout shake 500cals 2g fat 88g carbs 30g protein + BCAAs + 5g creatine mono

    730pm Dinner wife cooks: some type of pasta with ground beef, or a meat with rice, veggies ect. As far as portion goes usually eat until I feel sick lol! This is always my sloppiness meal even if she doesn't cook ill go get Jimmy the Greek (1000cals salad, rice, thick dressing and pork or chicken or gyro) or a huge thing of spicy salmon sushi rolls. Post workout shake I find boats me too as it's a mass gainer. May look at self concoction my own from whey isolate and dextrose or whatever good fast carb is these days.

    9 or 10pm pass the F out with a bloated full belly lol hoping to get at least 7.5hrs sleep

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Thanks for the thorough response man. So let's say adding an everything bagel in the morning and another fast carb at lunch or after lunch snack say white bread with my tuna instead of whole grain would be a good idea? Does it matter if consuming fast and slow carbs at the same time or should they be separated? I know I've read that fats should be separated from carbs but I generally disregard that for a waste of my time and energy until cutting. Here's a rough breakdown of an average day for me on a work and training day:

    5:00am wakeup wim Hoff style ice cold shower, bowl of oatmeal w/ 2 tablespoons Natty PB and some berries, 1 to 2 scoops whey protein isolate shake w/ 2percent milk, 3 to 5 scrambled or hard boiled eggs (getting sick of eggs and try to vary my protein source instead of 12eggs a day), 3/4 cup of plain Greek yogurt and some Berries. COFFEE

    7:30 One avocado, Celery with Natty PB, bannana

    9:30 some turkey breast, dark chocolate almonds. Sometimes the 730 and 930 meal are combined in one meal depending on my work schedule that day.

    12:00 lunch - 1 to 1.5 chicken breast (or fish) and brown rice and some veggie ie Broccoli or corn or green beans or bell peppers or leftovers from the wife's dinner night before (see dinner options below)

    3 or 4pm again dependant on how busy work is for me - 1 can tuna w/ 1 tablespoon Mayo, chopped Celery and green onion. Sometimes on whole wheat bread as a sandwich sometimes just with a good ol fork. My tuna salad is money. Handful chocolate covered cranberries.

    530pm Snap necks and cash cheques at the gym. Standard plain Jane preworkout, plain Jane BCAAs intraworkout.

    700pm post workout shake 500cals 2g fat 88g carbs 30g protein + BCAAs + 5g creatine mono

    730pm Dinner wife cooks: some type of pasta with ground beef, or a meat with rice, veggies ect. As far as portion goes usually eat until I feel sick lol! This is always my sloppiness meal even if she doesn't cook ill go get Jimmy the Greek (1000cals salad, rice, thick dressing and pork or chicken or gyro) or a huge thing of spicy salmon sushi rolls. Post workout shake I find boats me too as it's a mass gainer. May look at self concoction my own from whey isolate and dextrose or whatever good fast carb is these days.

    9 or 10pm pass the F out with a bloated full belly lol hoping to get at least 7.5hrs sleep
    If you feeling bloated before sleeping you can try some apple cider vinegar with lemon/lime juice and some salt. Mix with water and down the hatch. Tastes absolutely atrocious though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    If you feeling bloated before sleeping you can try some apple cider vinegar with lemon/lime juice and some salt. Mix with water and down the hatch. Tastes absolutely atrocious though.
    Haha thanks for the suggestion. I pretty much feel bloated all day eating this much lol hoping the suggestive enzymes help not sure if the science is behind them but worth a shot. Man I can't even stand the smell of apple cider vinegar but I'll give it a go!

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    Any other suggestions to training and diet welcome haha.... Even a slap on the ass and an Atta boy keep it up lmao I know I'm not on 1g of 13 compound super cycle little boring but come on!

    Didn't make it in for bloodwork today work is busy as hell, hopefully get in Tuesday. I'll post up some results for feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Haha thanks for the suggestion. I pretty much feel bloated all day eating this much lol hoping the suggestive enzymes help not sure if the science is behind them but worth a shot. Man I can't even stand the smell of apple cider vinegar but I'll give it a go!
    Just looking over your diet, it's not surprising your bloated all day.

    Switching between falling asleep at 9 and 10 is going to impact the sleep cycle and circadian rhythm. Then, your first meal is a huge bolas if dairy (hard on digestive system) partnered with coffee (caffeine triggers gastric juice secretion and digestion). Top it off with oats which is one of the slowest digesting carbs.

    Then you add more insult to injury by eating a boat load of fibre a couple hours later as the 730 meal is a giant fibre bomb.

    Then you have almost zero sodium until dinner time at which point you are going to be intakint somrwhere around 1000mg+ from Jimmy the Greek.

    Your post workout shake looks like one of thos ugly "weight gainer" shakes. It is literally the worst and most useless supplement ever created. A chocolate bar has more value than a gainer powder.

    I would use your free time while it's still early in your cycle to read all the educational threads in the diet cycle as yours has significant room for improvement. To be brutally honest, eating that type of meal plan will result in you either getting right back to where you started before gear after coming off, or likely even farther behind due to poor nutrition and huge hormone fluctuations.

    Stimulants don't substitute Sleep

    Nobody can out train a bad diet

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    Seriously man, you actually think any of what you just said is productive or helpful? Now I've seen the rest of your posts and so I know you are 95% are like this so Im not too worried, (thanks for the apple cidar vinegar nugget) but like come on, I'm not a 20yr old asking for cycle advice at 6' 150lbs and looking to cram Dbol and winstrol and eating 10 protein shakes a day only so you can back off a little on the jump off a cliff statements, like how I am probably going to end up smaller than I started because the timing of my food intake is so drastically destroying my hormone flux. Really? I'm hitting my calories and macros, I'm closing in on 15lbs gained, strength and endurance and looking damn good in the mirror. Is it really THAT bad?

    Here's some unsolicited advice for you: if the role you want to play in this community is a mentor, knowledgable vet, moderator or whatever then try to dial back on shredding every detail and exaggerating every consequence of a persons plans if they are contributing, putting in effort and reasonably responsible. In the time it took you to read my post and break down 5 reasons that I'm going to fail dramatically maybe cut that in half and supply 2.5 suggestions for the 2.5 problems you found. If you want to be a real teacher/mentor you shouldnt just keep telling people what they are doing wrong with more over the top negativity than my gf on her period than spouting the classic "go read this thread" bullshit. Noone will listen to you in the end, if they aren't already. And yes, I've read your nutritional sticky and to what I thought was reasonable effort had incorporated it into some of my plan.

    BUT Lastly because beggars can't be choosers AND I did technically ask for advice AND I don't doubt your have a good amount of knowledge and experience, thank you for taking your time to respond:

    1) Are you saying the 1 hour difference in my sleeptime is impacting my circadiam rhythym? I know its a little late for the 5am wakeup I have and I would totally sleep more if I could, but I am a Construction Superintendent of 20-50 employees at times and father of 3 toddlers. Not bitching, just explaining the reason. I do some catchup on weekends and that will just have to do.

    2)Coffee aint goin anywhere, I know it bloats me I can feel it but I cant live without it lol, but I will look at moving the yogurt. I like to have it though to keep breakfast more varied than piledriving 8 eggs.

    3)What would you suggest to put here at morning snack instead and where would you put the fibre foods?

    4)I do intake some sodium through the day: Scrambled eggs are cooked with himalayan sea salt as is every other meal we cook. Jimmy the Greek is far from a daily dinner, like I said usually my girlfriend cooks a meal but once and awhile I like to get some Jimmy as a post workout cheat meal. I don't eat pizza, I don't eat sugar, donuts any of that crap. These types of meals are my cheat meals and they are full of carbs, protein and healthy fat.

    5) I know mass gain powders are generally crap, but I took a swing at one for the first time to try it out and honestly it has done its job up to now and as I said earlier in a post I am getting some dextrose and maltodextrin to add to my standard whey isolate now instead that and adding a casein shake before bed. I think the statement that a chocolate bar has more value is a LITTLE over the top though. Maybe some ingredients are crap but I THOUGHT when I looked they were actually not that bad. ALLMAX Quick Mass is what I used, 2 scoops Post workout.

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    Just to double check I plugged it all into a fitness tracker, obviously not 100percent accurate, probably missed things used in meals so it might even be on the light side but here's what it came out to:

    4235 calories
    363g carbs (just over 2x bodyweight)
    274g protein (just over 1.5x body weight)
    182g fat (46g fibre) (close to 1g per lb bodyweight)

    I think I miss-selected some things that translated some that is actually carbs to fat instead, I doubt fat is that high but maybe. That's was with the high fat Greek meal so protein and carbs will usually be higher and fat lower.

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    I tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. When I joined and was told my diet was shit, it was harder to swallow than the 30 horse pill AnimalPak I was taking.

    If I hadn't been given a reality check I would've never gotten to 230lbs with no gut or lose 40 lbs of fat, or acknowledge the sea of diet information available.

    Realize that it is also an international board and bluntness / directness can be mistaken for negativity. Tons of people here from different cultures where English is not their first language.

    Telling you to read the educational threads is teaching you to fish instead of spoon feeding fish. If I was going to nitpick your diet I would have been abrasive about it - I had no problems directly saying a diet is junk.

    Weight gainer shakes from a store are actually worse than chocolate bars it is not an exaggeration. Take a cliff builder bar ingredient label and compare it side by side with a weight gainer shake. Most of the ingredients are similar or comparable. The difference is the powder is regulated (or lack thereof) as a supplement and the bar is controlled by FDA food guidelines.

    As long as professional athletes are sponsored by protein companies, people will forever blindly defend their choice. A homemade shake with real food with always beat out a powder off the shelf at a store.

    You put in the work to earn money to afford gear. You sweat out the gym training like a fiend pumping iron. You put gas in your tank to drive to the grocery store for food. It's a disservice to your body in my opinion to use gainer shakes.

    Supplement powder is complete smoke and mirror that's why they are shit. The ONLY legal obligation they have for proprietary blends and labels is to list ingredients in order of predominance. That means your whey powder could be 39% whey isolate, 38% whey concentrate, and 23% egg.

    It also means they whey could be coming from dairy cows force fed soy and fat 90 days straight, only to be pumped with more antibiotics than Pfizer HQ.

    - The sleep isn't the problem but lack of regularity. Flip flopping between 7 and 8 hours of sleep means you are going to be waking up towards the end of sleep cycle versus approximately in the middle. That means less deep sleep over time, which is less GH production, fat metabolism, and recovery [ref Dr Michael Walker]

    - coffee isn't a problem except when it's paired with multiple other digestive stressors


    - fibre spaced out for day and simple carb + any flavour of meat protein that is not deli meat

    Macros are half the equation, micro nutrition is the other half. Prime example ; Brian Shaw, prior to Stan Efferding taking over, he was bloated 24/7 and only tracked macros on his channel. Stan changes his micro nutrition - no more bloat, less fat, better sleep, still the worlds strongest man, and healthier. Applies to everyone.
    Last edited by Windex; 03-16-2019 at 08:55 PM.
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    I have no doubt that you have extensive knowledge and experience but take it from someone who has mentored and developed many people through my career already, from apprentices to journeymen into the foreman and general foreman that work for me, and through active participation in my union: those posts are not blunt / direct, they are negative and unproductive mostly. Not sure what any of this has to do with the international makeup of the forum or language barriers we are both Canadian man...If you want your role here to be that guy that smacks down the line then continue on but otherwise maybe just work on a few things!

    Pointing to a section of the forum is not teaching people to fish. It's telling them they are stupid, their fishing rod is shit, they are probably going to fail and drown and then tossing them a 500page encyclopedia on fishing techniques, pointing to the river and saying figure it out. Sounds like you figured it out and yes I likely will too but many likely won't. And what is the purpose of this forum and monitors or mods or whatever like you if not to guide, mentor and impart knowledge and experience meaningfully? I mean I get it it's probably been hard after thousands of posts for thick headed teenagers and idiots but know your audience and don't paint everyone with the same brush. Now I'm no stranger to tough love, and I can take it buuuut here's how you could've actually "taught me how to fish" :

    Contents of your diet are not bad, maybe sub this out or add that. I'd suggest dropping the post workout shake and instead going with whey and Dextrose. Timing is off on the macros though giving you the bloat spread the fibre out through the day. Check out (insert link or reference or anything) and (again maybe a link or post?) and do some rejigging, come back and present what you put together and we'll have another look. Goodluck.

    And again, not trying to continue to argue with you I do appreciate the advice in whichever form it comes. All of your paragraphs following were helpful. Another thing I've found with these forums, this one included is they are littered with stickys that are mostly 10 years old. A lot of the time they also conflict with one another and can overwhelm or confuse. It can be hard to judge what is outdated information.

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    So I got sick again, mild bronchitis, kid got double ear infections so it was a fun week. Kept waking up with shit all over his crib from his antibiotics so that was fun. Nothing like cleaning shit off a baby at 6am before work! Needless to say the week was fucked up but shit happens. Recovered pretty quickly with some antibiotics and got back at it. Managed to still eat enough to maintain weight during that week and looks like I put on a couple pounds since. Broke 180 which is a goal I never thought I could obtain, certainly couldn't without steroids as my metabolism is so high and I don't think genetically I'm meant to be that big but here I am bitches! Yes I realize I am retaining likely 5lbs of water or something which I'm totally okay with and will miss when it goes. Why do people get upset when they retain water and "bloat!?" I love feeling fuller and look forward to working on hardening and soldifying the new big puffy muscle this summer.

    Anyway workouts are good again, hitting my macros and meals most days. Very mild acne that I did get seems to have calmed from either new acne wash I use on my chest and back now and showering morning And night to keep oily skin down. Maybe body is acclimatizing to the test now as it's 8 weeks today I believe. Havnt taken an AI in a month now I believe. Started 500iu a week of HCG for last two weeks. I think my balls are regaining size, hard to say I don't think they shrank that much in the first place.

    I'm heading in for bloodwork on Thursday - may bump the test to 600mg a week just to keep from getting too comfortable and levelling off too much and because that's just how much I have a I'm curious if there will be a difference! Or adding an oral for a few weeks near the end. I wouldn't complain if stacking a low to moderate dose of something helped harden me up before Mexico! I suppose this is the addictive nature of steroids and stacking in our need more faster culture? Can't help but feel a little like the new fun feelings of an influx of exogenous test is now just a little bland? Not sure how to fully describe it. Probably just see it through as is.

    Havnt really felt any side effects - my nipples get hard alot more, sometimes it changes a little bit and maybe are more sensitive idk.. They were always a little sensitive before anyway. No lumps, BP is stable, little red around the neck but not that much different than usual. Temper got a little higher for a bit but that has also seemed to either level out or subside. Libido also subsided a bit, is pretty good but like I'm not a raging sex machine where there was a couple weeks my girlfriends jaw was in danger of tearing a muscle.

    A friend at work stopped me in the hallway and flat out asked what juice I was running so that's a good sign it's working haha!

    Anyway..working 12hr shifts this weekend on this project I've been running that is turning into one of those nightmare jobs you are in danger of running right off the tracks. Hoping to reel it in today and then take it out on the weights with some serious deadlifts tonight.
    Last edited by DeeCee112; 03-30-2019 at 04:58 PM.

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    Frequently getting sick is often a sign of weak immune system due to diet deficiencies. Hope you feel better ASAP.

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    Thanks man, it's long gone now I beat it pretty quick luckily. I blame 3 kids in daycare and a girlfriend in health care field lol. They pretty much cycle a sickness so at least 1 child or the wife is sick at all times throughout winter.

    My macros are pretty good, calories are high, fruit and vegetables everyday, I supplement vitamin D, B12 tabs and magnesium so I THINK nutrient wise I'm covered.

    On that note I did get angry and buy a vial of B12 to inject instead although some of my research suggested unless you are deficient the whole added energy and immunity thing has been disproven. Havnt figured the dosage, as most what I can find is suggested for those with disease or deficiency which I don't have. I have vegan friend who shoots 1000 - 2000 mcg weekly. Any suggestions for energy / sickness prevention?
    Last edited by DeeCee112; 03-30-2019 at 04:28 PM.

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    Checked out the health station machine at the pharamacy:

    BP 132/86 69 Bpm resting. The machine tells me I'm at risk

    Weight: 185lbs (hell yes, in September I was 155 to 160lbs from stress, poor diet and no training and did not look or feel like myself anymore)

    BF % who cares - can still see the outline of 6 abs unflexed in the morning before I force feed 4000calories so I'm happy.

    Height - still 5'7...maybe I'll buy an inversion table...
    Last edited by DeeCee112; 03-30-2019 at 04:42 PM.

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    Let us know if you figure out a way to get taller lol. I’m blessed to be 6’2” but hey I wouldn’t mind 6’3”

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by redz View Post
    Let us know if you figure out a way to get taller lol. I’m blessed to be 6’2” but hey I wouldn’t mind 6’3”
    I hate you

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    Deadlifted 405lbs yeaterday. Gotta love the fully body violent shake when lifting your absolute max. I couldn't be happier considering 7 or 8 months ago 185lbs felt heavy again after the 4yrs I took off.

    Been Adding 50g of Dextrose, 5g creatine, 5g plain bcaas to my standard whey protein shakes post workout. Certainly less bloat, thanks Windex. Any other suggested additions? Have to cram 1000cals in 3 meals some days though as I just can't eat every 2 hours with my busy life but it is what it is, I can handle bloating as long as Im growing. Capping like 4 to 5 times a day though lol.

    Going to push my squats tonight and see what I can max now. Been taking it easy and staying with 5 sets of 225x8 or 10 reps instead of heavier weights but my knees have been feeling great and I'm more confidant in my form being back I think I'm ready to get back to some max squats too.

    Shoulders felt the better yesterday than they have in awhile. Twice a week physio, the couple weeks spread out I had to take off due to sickness helped rest them. I've found success in using the Incline machine which prevents my arms from straying from proper form when tired which is what I believe pissed them off. I've combined that with strict one arm seated cable fly's to pre exhaust the muscle before hitting the flat bench so I can get good muscle fibre breakdown using less weight.

    Tried pinning my right shoulder using my left hand. I've lost a ton of flexibility from gaining so fast, lifting heavy and not doing yoga or as much stretching as I used to and my normally already shaky hand was trembling trying to reach and push the plunger. Had to back out after . 25ml of tearing up my shoulder from unsteadiness and go for the quad instead. Looks like the gf is up to bat on the delt injections.

    I wouldn't mind trying lat injections my lats are a good size.

  28. #28
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    B Vitamins in oral form need to be methylated otherwise you are paying to have darker urine.

    If Vitamin D is supplemented, it requires Vitamin K2 (approx 100mcg) and Magnesium (any kind but oxide). Without all 3 the Vitamin d just causes calcium to be leeched from your bones.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    B Vitamins in oral form need to be methylated otherwise you are paying to have darker urine.

    If Vitamin D is supplemented, it requires Vitamin K2 (approx 100mcg) and Magnesium (any kind but oxide). Without all 3 the Vitamin d just causes calcium to be leeched from your bones.
    Yeah my vitamin D has K2 and I take magnesium as well, just started oxide now which I know is less absorb able but I have a bottle and I'm don't like wasting things.

    Do you have a suggested dose for the IM b12? I agree totally with you on that which is why I don't waste money on multivitamins.

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    80% of the immune system is in the gut. So being sick often means something in the environment is destroying the gut. Could be

    - artificial sweeteners
    - heavy metal toxicity
    - specific food sensitivity / intolerance
    - lack of a specific micro nutrient ; most people don't eat 9-11 cups of mixed fruit+vegetables per day
    - chronic cortisol levels increase (ie daily use of caffeine, stimulant/preworkout, shift work, etc)


    Elimination doesn't work because by the time someone eliminates 1-2 things for a reasonable amount of time they've gotten sick again.

    Functional medicine lab tests will reveal root cause.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Yeah my vitamin D has K2 and I take magnesium as well, just started oxide now which I know is less absorb able but I have a bottle and I'm don't like wasting things.

    Do you have a suggested dose for the IM b12? I agree totally with you on that which is why I don't waste money on multivitamins.
    Magnesium Oxide has a bioavailability of about 5-8%. At 150mg per capsule for example, best case scenario is your body actualizes 12mg of the 150, assuming the capsule dose even matches the label. It's also the only form of magnesium that has been linked to negative repercussions to the human body. To put it into perspective, a bag of kale/spinach is going to have more magnesium than the entire bottle of MgOxide.

    I stopped using IM B12 when I switched to activated B Complex and found it to be substantially better. The broscience dose of IM B12 1000mcg/day
    Last edited by Windex; 04-01-2019 at 01:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    80% of the immune system is in the gut. So being sick often means something in the environment is destroying the gut. Could be

    - artificial sweeteners
    - heavy metal toxicity
    - specific food sensitivity / intolerance
    - lack of a specific micro nutrient ; most people don't eat 9-11 cups of mixed fruit+vegetables per day
    - chronic cortisol levels increase (ie daily use of caffeine, stimulant/preworkout, shift work, etc)


    Elimination doesn't work because by the time someone eliminates 1-2 things for a reasonable amount of time they've gotten sick again.

    Functional medicine lab tests will reveal root cause.
    I have an user in my esophagus so I have to take an anti acid medication. Doctors say no side effects take it forever but I know it's causing my stomach to not be able to break down and absorb nutrients as well. I've finally quit drinking save a couple beers here and there socially and all spicy food, need to quit coffee soon and work at trying to heal it. I'd love to be able to get off them but unfortunately 2 days without and I'm hurting bad.

    The other big one is stress and cortisol. As Ive said, I have a high pressure busy career, especially for my age and experience, 2 kids of my own and 1 with my current girlfriend, a property to manage and just bought another to move our family into together next week. Oh and a mentally unstable ex girlfriend to try to co parent with. Oh and I take steroids now and lift heavy ass weights 4 to 5 times a week lmao.

    I think a slight tree nut allergy as far as food interolence is all at least! (peaches, nectarines, ect)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Magnesium Oxide has a bioavailability of about 5-8%. At 150mg per capsule for example, best case scenario is your body actualizes 12mg of the 150, assuming the capsule dose even matches the label. It's also the only form of magnesium that has been linked to negative repercussions to the human body. To put it into perspective, a bag of kale/spinach is going to have more magnesium than the entire bottle of MgOxide.

    I stopped using IM B12 when I switched to activated B Complex and found it to be substantially better. The broscience dose of IM B12 1000mcg/day
    Hm got it. So ditch the mag oxide it's that bad eh.
    1000mcg per day seems awfully excessive?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Hm got it. So ditch the mag oxide it's that bad eh.
    1000mcg per day seems awfully excessive?
    Worked for me. The IM B12 is from Zandoz or w/e the company is called over the counter at shoppers rexall etc. It's still the non methylated form of B12 so could be injecting daily for mediocre benefit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Worked for me. The IM B12 is from Zandoz or w/e the company is called over the counter at shoppers rexall etc. It's still the non methylated form of B12 so could be injecting daily for mediocre benefit.
    I think I fire this bottle and then switch to a methylated b12 tab. Doesnt being methylated make it hard on your liver?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    I think I fire this bottle and then switch to a methylated b12 tab. Doesnt being methylated make it hard on your liver?
    Methylated means it's already gone through the process of converting from inactive to active form. Easier and actually usuable by the body. B Complex is superior to a single B vitamin.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    I think I fire this bottle and then switch to a methylated b12 tab. Doesnt being methylated make it hard on your liver?
    If you are getting sick that often it's still going to be best to get a functional medicine lab panel run from an N.D. to fix the underlying root causes.

    The gut problems will translate to less nutrient assimilation and make gym progress an uphill battle forever until the root issue is fixed.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    If you are getting sick that often it's still going to be best to get a functional medicine lab panel run from an N.D. to fix the underlying root causes.

    The gut problems will translate to less nutrient assimilation and make gym progress an uphill battle forever until the root issue is fixed.
    Yeah like I said... I'm not sick that often.. It was twice back to back but yeah this isn't a monthly thing.
    But yes the root issue to my nutrient assimilation if there is one(I only assume so) is an ulser in my esophagus treated by Tecta anti acid medication and honestly I'm not sure how to fix it. I did visit an ND a year ago and got a battery of naturopathic supplements but did not follow through. They were quite expensive but maybe I'll give it another shot.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Yeah like I said... I'm not sick that often.. It was twice back to back but yeah this isn't a monthly thing.
    But yes the root issue to my nutrient assimilation if there is one(I only assume so) is an ulser in my esophagus treated by Tecta anti acid medication and honestly I'm not sure how to fix it. I did visit an ND a year ago and got a battery of naturopathic supplements but did not follow through. They were quite expensive but maybe I'll give it another shot.
    Not familiar with ND's in GTA but you could also see an MD with a sub specialty in functional medicine. Trying to push supplement is definitely a red flag because a proper ND is going to tell you to buy supplements from a company that uses 3rd party testing to validate their supplement label claims.

    You want:

    Organic Acids Test
    Thyroid, Adrenals, Hormones (Saliva and/or Blood)
    Omega Test (blood)
    Toxicity Test (urine)
    Food Sensitivity Test (specifically IGG)
    Hair and Tissue Mineral Analysis
    Parasite Test (H Pylori, CBO, Candida)

    A "perfect" Naturopath has a sub specialty in Ayeurvadic Medicine, Functional Medicine, AND Traditional Chinese Medicine. Ideally, they would also be in a centre that has other lbs started such as ; Sports Massage Therapist, someone certified on Acupuncture and Dry Needling, and a Physio.


    PPI's have some antibiotic properties where they affect the gut microbiome and can destroy some of the good bacteria, hence some of your problems. A "healthy" individual uses approx 30% of energy expenditure on digestion, higher for those with any type of autoimmune based problems. So another way to think of that is for every 100 calories consumed, a minimum of 30 calories goes towards digesting the other 70.

    It is definitely possible to get off PPI's and remove ulcers naturally. Have seen it first hand with close friends who switched to a more holistic mindset on "medicine"
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    Really appreciate the info man I am going to start looking again for a new ND to try again.

    You nailed it with the supplement pushing ND, another huge red flag was the fact she pushed the supplements from her clinic. I'm not stupid... Of course you want me to buy all this high priced shit if you are directly profitting. I left with a bitter taste which is unfortunate as I was looking forward to a new approach. All I can get from my specialist is that there is no problem to stay on the medication it does no harm. An obvious MD approach. Honestly after the ND failure I tried reducing my dose to every other day, cutting back coffee (down to one in the morning only from 2 to 3) and all spicy food and booze (save the odd couple beers at events once or twice a month). Unfortunately I still can not go more than every other day without it. Been for two gastro scopes, it isn't THAT bad the specialist says but I know it will worsen if I don't keep on the Tecta and allow acid to get to it. So yeah frustration.

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