First ever cycle at 43. Start picture included, open to suggestions

[Hughinn]

Alright guys. I'm 43. 5-11 and just stepped off the scale at an awful 244lbs.

I've lifted off and on for more than 25years. But I've never used any gear before. I work a physical job, and I'm stronger than any of the young bucks I work with in the gym or on the job.

But every time I go on a cut, I lose muscle and keep the love handles. So I've got a cycle of test e lined up. 400mg a week, for 8 weeks. Then clomid pct.

I just want to get some of the soft stuff off and keep my muscle mass.

[Hughinn]

Alright guys. I'm 43. 5-11 and just stepped off the scale at an awful 244lbs.

I've lifted off and on for more than 25years. But I've never used any gear before. I work a physical job, and I'm stronger than any of the young bucks I work with in the gym or on the job.

But every time I go on a cut, I lose muscle and keep the love handles. So I've got a cycle of test e lined up. 400mg a week, for 8 weeks. Then clomid pct.

I just want to get some of the soft stuff off and keep my muscle mass.

Just to add to any potential helpful advice I get here (and I've already got alot) I've lifted on and off for more than 20 years. I was a wrestler in high school, and took it seriously.

I just want to feel good again.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I would get more gear and run the test e for 12 weeks.

At, 244lbs and 25% body fat you have 61lbs of fat and 183lbs of lean body mass.
If you manage to get to 15% body fat at 220lbs you would have to lose 33lbs of fat while gaining 4lbs of muscle.

You would look like a new person but still wouldn't be ripped. You would be at the beginning of looking lean.

Now losing 33lbs of fat in 8 weeks is a tall order.
To lose a pound is 3500.
4 pounds in week is 14,000 calorie deficit which is 2000 calorie deficit in a day.

There is no way you are going to gain 4lbs of muscle while in a 2000 calorie deficit while running 400mg of test.

To cut to the point...

Probably will take two cycles of 12 weeks to really get the look I thing you are hoping for.

[Mr. Small]

Test E takes 5 weeks to kick in, so a 12 week cycle would be the norm. You can shoot for 2lbs of fat loss a week by being in a deficit of 1000 cals.

[wango]

I would get more gear and run the test e for 12 weeks.

At, 244lbs and 25% body fat you have 61lbs of fat and 183lbs of lean body mass.
If you manage to get to 15% body fat at 220lbs you would have to lose 33lbs of fat while gaining 4lbs of muscle.

You would look like a new person but still wouldn't be ripped. You would be at the beginning of looking lean.

Now losing 33lbs of fat in 8 weeks is a tall order.
To lose a pound is 3500.
4 pounds in week is 14,000 calorie deficit which is 2000 calorie deficit in a day.

There is no way you are going to gain 4lbs of muscle while in a 2000 calorie deficit while running 400mg of test.

To cut to the point...

Probably will take two cycles of 12 weeks to really get the look I thing you are hoping for.

OP, I think this ^^^ is incredible advice. I train guys older than yourself, but have kept them (like myself) at TRT dosages of test only. I have found with some of my heavier clients that are going for more aggressive fat loss, they are able to keep more muscle courtesy of that small dosage. And as mr. small said, shoot for 2 pounds a week. However, what I’ve done is I intermittently work in more severe weeks, where we drop calories an additional 500 per day. I have gotten 3 pound losses regularly.

After 3 months you’re really getting at your target weight and then you can go into a cycle with a compound that assists in cutting, but you can up your calories and start to add muscle while continuing to lose fat. So now 6 months later (March/April), you’re already looking good for summer.

I’m new to the gear, but definitely know my way around training. Good luck.

[Hughinn]

33lbs lost and at 220 or so and looking leaner is exactly what I had in mind.

If I was to run the cycle of test e at 400mg a week for 12 weekes how bad would the pct be?

I'd almost rather do multiple shorter cycles because that seems like the best way to limit long term side effects. But I have no experience in the matter personally.

I have access to more test e and maybe a test-primo stack.
But what would pct look like?

[Hughinn]

I would get more gear and run the test e for 12 weeks.

At, 244lbs and 25% body fat you have 61lbs of fat and 183lbs of lean body mass.
If you manage to get to 15% body fat at 220lbs you would have to lose 33lbs of fat while gaining 4lbs of muscle.

You would look like a new person but still wouldn't be ripped. You would be at the beginning of looking lean.

Now losing 33lbs of fat in 8 weeks is a tall order.
To lose a pound is 3500.
4 pounds in week is 14,000 calorie deficit which is 2000 calorie deficit in a day.

There is no way you are going to gain 4lbs of muscle while in a 2000 calorie deficit while running 400mg of test.

To cut to the point...

Probably will take two cycles of 12 weeks to really get the look I thing you are hoping for.

What about running 300mg per week for ten weeks?

I'm not opposed to getting more gear, but I'd like to use the minimal amount I can get away with the first time around.

I'd like some results, but it's also about making a safe trial run and full recovery. And learning how my body and mind will react while on the gear. And how to administer it, etc.

[Mr. Small]

What about running 300mg per week for ten weeks?

I'm not opposed to getting more gear, but I'd like to use the minimal amount I can get away with the first time around.

I'd like some results, but it's also about making a safe trial run and full recovery. And learning how my body and mind will react while on the gear. And how to administer it, etc.

Minimal is 400mg per week. It's going to be week 5 before it kicks in, so it's your call for the duration really. I don't see why you don't run it for 12 weeks though. The recovery is not much different to a 10 week cycle.

[Hughinn]

Minimal is 400mg per week. It's going to be week 5 before it kicks in, so it's your call for the duration really. I don't see why you don't run it for 12 weeks though. The recovery is not much different to a 10 week cycle.

Hmm

I think I'll shoot for 12 weeks at 450mg. In that case.

I'm not a small guy, so I reckon that accounts for something as far as dosage.

[Hughinn]

First pin today.
It was no problem. Hardly felt it. I was expecting it to suck, but it wasn't bad.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll post updates and post cycle feedback.

Under advice here, I. Going 450g test e. 12 weeks. Clomid and novolex on hand for pct.

I'm of excited.

[Hughinn]

Alright guys, my first pin was last Friday morning. And one thing I learned already, is that pinning 450mg of test e is no joke.

My ass cheek is still swollen and tender. Youch! I think the wife stuck it in the wrong place too. No pain afterwards. But a day orr so later, tender.

She stuck my ass like id pissed her off. Pop! Push! Done! Maybe 10 seconds elapsed

Had a sore ass ever since. Starting to unswell finally yesterday. A little better today.

Since I can't pin myself in the ass, is there another option y'all use?

I got her watching videos on it now, hopefully it ain't as bad next time. I've only got 2 cheeks.

[Chark]

Ha yeah, gotta have her inject slowly to not erupt the fascia. You’ll be fine though. I’d suggest delts or ventroglute. Ventroglute is much easier to reach and no risk of hitting sciatic nerve that’s in dorso glutes (I THINK that’s what it’s called that your wife pinned you in, whatever the upper-outer quadrant is). Ventro can be more difficult to spot correctly. I’d teach her to do it correctly in the upper-outer quadrant like you have until you’ve researched and decided your next pin location. Good luck! It is exciting isn’t it?

[charger69]

Alright guys, my first pin was last Friday morning. And one thing I learned already, is that pinning 450mg of test e is no joke.

My ass cheek is still swollen and tender. Youch! I think the wife stuck it in the wrong place too. No pain afterwards. But a day orr so later, tender.

She stuck my ass like id pissed her off. Pop! Push! Done! Maybe 10 seconds elapsed

Had a sore ass ever since. Starting to unswell finally yesterday. A little better today.

Since I can't pin myself in the ass, is there another option y'all use?

I got her watching videos on it now, hopefully it ain't as bad next time. I've only got 2 cheeks.

Do not piss off wifey!! She will literally be a pain in the ass! LOL

I am not going to assume that you don’t know anything. Make sure you swab the area with alcohol prior to pinning to clean the skin. I pin myself and you should get to that point. I draw with a 23 and pin with a 25g. When pinning in the VG and glutes. I usually pin daily so I use insulin syringes by backfilling them.
You do not want to use the same spot twice in a week. You will get a lot of scar tissue- another reason that I like insulin syringes. Very little scar tissue


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[Hughinn]

Yeah, you called alright. I'm guessing you've been through it. Right in fleshy part of the ass cheek. Upper right be damned. Its coming around though.

Yeah, man. It is exciting. I already noticed some subtle things. Less dark circles under my eyes. More energy.

Man, I anguished over this decision for 20 years. And now I'm wondering why I anguished it so much.

[Hughinn]

Insulin syringes must be different sizes?

I felt no pain going in with a 3cc cyringe and a 23g needle. But the fallout, was kinda rough.

I'm only doing once per week though.

Whats the difference in syringes?

[charger69]

Insulin syringes must be different sizes?

I felt no pain going in with a 3cc cyringe and a 23g needle. But the fallout, was kinda rough.

I'm only doing once per week though.

Whats the difference in syringes?

Insulin syringes must be different sizes?

I felt no pain going in with a 3cc cyringe and a 23g needle. But the fallout, was kinda rough.

I'm only doing once per week though.

Whats the difference in syringes?

Insulin syringes are 1cc and usually 29 g or 30 g. You hardly even feel them.
23 g is a little big for me..... more scar tissue. I use 25g to inject and 23 to draw.
You are using test e, and I recommend that you do it at least 2x a week based on the 1/2 life.


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[Chark]

You should strongly consider pinning twice a week. Less stable blood levels will increases risk of side effects that id already be on the lookout for at 244lbs.

25g needle to inject would be a little less painful and lead to less scarring (and could have added benefit of being more difficult for wife to slam the plunger ) but 23 is ok, I’d much rather see you go to 2x/wk.

[DuckTheViking]

I use 25g 1.25" for injection. I used to do it myself in the ass, a bit difficult to reach around but I got it to work. Standing up, almost all the weight on the other leg, trying to relax the ass cheek being injected.
I taught my wife how to do it, now I just lie down and relax the muscle completely and I can barely feel the pin prick nor the 3.5ml injection. Make her inject the fluid slowly, dont rush it.

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[Hughinn]

You should strongly consider pinning twice a week. Less stable blood levels will increases risk of side effects that id already be on the lookout for at 244lbs.

25g needle to inject would be a little less painful and lead to less scarring (and could have added benefit of being more difficult for wife to slam the plunger ) but 23 is ok, I’d much rather see you go to 2x/wk.

Insulin syringes are 1cc and usually 29 g or 30 g. You hardly even feel them.
23 g is a little big for me..... more scar tissue. I use 25g to inject and 23 to draw.
You are using test e, and I recommend that you do it at least 2x a week based on the 1/2 life.


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The advice y'all gave me was spot on. If for no other reason than pinning 1ml as compared to two caused no inflammation at all. Second pin on twice weekly and don't feel it anymore.

And I've been working out for 20 years. I know my body. I've already noticed a difference. More energy. More endurance. Super fast recovery. Slight libido uptick. No physically visible noticeable changes (YET) But this energy and libido alone makes it worth it to me.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm very grateful.

[Hughinn]

Hey guy's, I need to ask a few questions.

I'm about 4 pins in and I noticed today my nipples, and when I say nippers, its really just the tip of them are a little swollen. Doesn't seem too bad, but with only 450mg a week of test e, I wasn't expecting it. Not sure if it's a big deal or not. Also, my d!ck is sort of semi hard most of the time too. Which I kinda dig. And may also be related.


I've got Nolvadex and clomid on hand I was planning to use for pct. I was told if gyno symptoms showed up, to start taking Nolvadex at10mg a day as a preventative so, I've got it ready.

My question is, since this doesn't seem bad, it's not like I got any breasts or tissue growing and if this is just a side effect, then no big deal to me.

Is it time to use the Nolvadex? I didn't get any hcg because I was under the impression with such a light first cycle, I wouldn't need it. I can get it from my source, but its about 5 days out.

Maybe get some anyway?
Don't sweat it, its normal?
Start the nolva?
Start the nolva, get the hcg on its way?

Any advice is appreciated

And also, this is unbelievable. My skin is getting looser, and fat is beginning to melt off, and at the same time, I still feel strong and my muscle mass is holding steady, even slightly growing.

25 years of working out natural. Never seen fat melt off and muscles hold, much less grow.

I'm learning.

[scotty51312]

Hey guy's, I need to ask a few questions.

I'm about 4 pins in and I noticed today my nipples, and when I say nippers, its really just the tip of them are a little swollen. Doesn't seem too bad, but with only 450mg a week of test e, I wasn't expecting it. Not sure if it's a big deal or not. Also, my d!ck is sort of semi hard most of the time too. Which I kinda dig. And may also be related.


I've got Nolvadex and clomid on hand I was planning to use for pct. I was told if gyno symptoms showed up, to start taking Nolvadex at10mg a day as a preventative so, I've got it ready.

My question is, since this doesn't seem bad, it's not like I got any breasts or tissue growing and if this is just a side effect, then no big deal to me.

Is it time to use the Nolvadex? I didn't get any hcg because I was under the impression with such a light first cycle, I wouldn't need it. I can get it from my source, but its about 5 days out.

Maybe get some anyway?
Don't sweat it, its normal?
Start the nolva?
Start the nolva, get the hcg on its way?

Any advice is appreciated

And also, this is unbelievable. My skin is getting looser, and fat is beginning to melt off, and at the same time, I still feel strong and my muscle mass is holding steady, even slightly growing.

25 years of working out natural. Never seen fat melt off and muscles hold, much less grow.

I'm learning.

First rule of the nips is don't mess with them more than necessary. It can stimulate gyno. Check for a lump, if there's no lump and no puffiness then you're still alright.
Personally I wouldn't use nolva or clomid for sensitive nipples. You want an aromtase inhibitor, adex at .25mg EOD would probably be about the right dose for the test dose you're taking.
When running test its always good to have adex on hand. Possibly letrozole or at least have a way to get it just in case you get full blown gyno.
Also HCG is used on cycles to prevent testicular atrophy and help you recover natural test levels faster when you PCT.
4 pins of test E should be only 2 weeks. At two weeks with such a long ester most of what you're feeling is more than likely placebo. It takes about 4 to 5 weeks to get your test levels up to the point of noticing significant change.
Good luck with the rest of your cycle

[Cuz]

Dog gave good advice. Im not gonna sugarcoat this, you are going to need a life style change to get what you want. Not just a 12 week cycle, but that will definitely get your body in an anabolic state and definitely help transform you. Since you know you’re way around training, id eat solid diet high in protein , you look carb sensitive so you may have to play with your macros some. I think 220 is very reasonable with diet and cardio and a heavy training program.
Last but not least at 43 pct probably isnt the best option you can try and see but id look into TRT. The good news is you’re making a change. Will be following along.

[Hughinn]

I'm about halfway into the cycle here. I. Going to post a progress picture here soon.

I've lost a very measurable amount of fat. My pants are looser, my body leaner.

I've only lost about 4lbs. I think my bf% was a bit lower than I originally thought. I weigh about 240lbs now although I'm a bit leaner and better defined, I think may have been pretty close to my genetic limit prior ro my first cycle.

All in all I like how this is shaping up. I appreciate all the advice here. It's been invaluable.

I've got a question though. My source for gear gave a 5amp 75mg/ml pack of tren acetate. He said I mentioned I hadn't really gained alot of muscle on the test cycle and said to try the tren.

Of course, he's a salesman, and I didn't start this looking to pack on massive muscle, just to lean out and look more like a lean brawler ought to. Not necessarily a body builder. Some of y'all on here are crazy jacked. It's impressive. But not really what I'm personally shooting for.

So my question is, is it worth trying the little 5 or 6 doses of tren during this cycle, or just hold it for later?

The other thing is, pct.

I've got on hand, clomid, Nolvadex and amiridex all on hand, plus a 5mg bottle of hcg . Basically anything I thought I might need. Haven't had any bad sides yet except a persistent stubborn hard on, and some bacne. So I haven't used any of it.

[Lowlyf]

G'day mate. I've read through this thread with great interest. I'm a beginner in the world of "cycles" so I cannot add any value to this, however I do hope you continue to post here with how you're going. You must be 5 or 6 weeks in now, I'm keen for this progress shot bud!

[Hughinn]

First off, I want to thank you guys here who gave me information and advice.
I scouted alot of other forums, but this is the only one where I registered, because of the maturity and experience of a few of the regulars here. To fellow noobs to aas wondering who I'm talking about, I don't have to say any names, hunt around these forums for a while and you'll easily see who i mean.

I joined this forum for access to you guys. And it helped immensely. So thanks.

Update. I'm 8 weeks in Monday. On the last 4.

Lots of shit went wrong. First off, I injured my lower back, which hindered my training sorely, I like alot of squats and deadlifts for lower body, and I had to lay off the lower body at first to give my back time to heal, and then ease in with leg press and machine type quad and calf exercises. The shit i hate. And,. I see now I made a mistake booking a cutting cycle through the best food holidays. I wanted to keep a steeper deficit, and wound up carb cycling instead, And my work schedule suddenly changed and hours increased also affected my training. But no excuses. I worked through it all because no plan ever goes exactly the way you want. There's always improvising. So I rolled with it.

When I hurt my back, I started to abort the cycle about 4 or 6 weeks in and try again later. But after consideration, I decided to see it through because alot of this was about learning how to use the gear, cycle successfully and recover properly as much as anything else.
So I've pinned 450 - 500mg test e weekly for 8 weeks now. I trained the best I could, my injury is just now getting back to 100 % for the home stretch here. So I've some time to go.

I started at 244lbs. Now weigh about 238. I think my body fat wasn't quite as high as I thought before. I've got a thick torso that sorta makes me look fatter, but also sorta hides my weight too.

So far, I'm pretty happy with the way it worked out. I lost fat, and gained muscle at the same time. Thats just about impossible to do without the gear. I know this because I've tried for years. Plus, I'm just now sort learning how to train like a bodybuilder. I've only trained like an athlete before. Its different. I've trained before, and can tell you the biggest difference in the gear, is the recovery time. Everything else is about the same. Even the results. But they came way faster, and the recovery time from exhausting muscle groups and joints is way shorter. I felt much younger than I have in a long time.

I'll have a final update as well. With my overall opinions and what went right, and wrong. What I'll do differently next time, if there is a next time. And my overall impression of aas.

Again, a few of y'all here, I really want to thank again. It was you guys that helped me figure the gear, the dose, the AI, the schedule. I wouldn't have know shit from shineola without the direction I got here.

So thank you guys.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Congrats on the progress.
Definitely leaned up and you look stronger.

Way to grind it out thru all the mishaps.

Most importantly...
Don't slack now... keep fighting the fight.

[Hughinn]

Congrats on the progress.
Definitely leaned up and you look stronger.

Way to grind it out thru all the mishaps.

Most importantly...
Don't slack now... keep fighting the fight.

Thanks brother. Goes without say, you're one of the guys I was talking about.

I should also mention, about week 5 I had alot lethargy, and some water retention. I thought I got some bunk gear. Then someone on here asked if I'd been taking an AI. I think it was you DD, but I might be wrong.

I said I hadn't been taking it, because I hadn't had any signs of gyno. But I had some on hand. Then someone here said the water retention and lethargy was probably my estrogen catching up to the gear, and suggested blood work, or start an AI.

I had an unopened bottle of beligas amiridex on hand, so I popped it open on a Tuesday, and under advice here, took 1mg for 2 days, then 1/2mg EOD since.

Lethargy and water retention were gone by the following Monday. Energy levels restored

For the new guys reading this, that's just another little thing I learned here. Not everyone needs an AI. Some right away need it, and others might after awhile. You gotta know your body. And it helps to know guys who experiment with this stuff and can give advice.

So I'm down to 1/4mg of amirodex EOD right now. That stuff has some nasty sides for me. So I dropped the dose down as low as possible to help. So far so good.

[Albedo121]

Definitely sucked your waist in and you certainly look leaner brother! Glad to hear you powered through - hope the back healed up well! Be careful, herniated discs and sciatica are no fun. Appreciate all the effort in talking through your experience too as I haven’t started my first cycle just yet!