I think high and consistent gains can be obtained naturally

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

It's not my desire to critizice or attack those who use anabolic steroids, but I've been visiting this very informative site and forum and noticed something curious (excuse my english, I'm spanish speaking).

Many people here claim with great enthusiasm how they gained 15, 20 or more pounds with a cycle in just 8 weeks. When I was reading this, I was shocked because either my case was a rare one, or anabolic steroids are not that effective as some claim them to be. I am just 18 years old, weigh 153 pounds and my height is 5'10. In other words, I am considerably small compared to many of you guys. However, my gains were considerably big and I didn't have to use any steroids. I began training at 135 pounds, and just taking NITRO-TECH (a very powerful supplement in my opinion), I gained 25 pounds of hard muscle mass in just 4 months. Actually, I dropped from 160 to 153, because I stopped training for one month, got sick, and ran out of Nitro Tech (lol).

What I'm trying to explain is.....if you are a patient, you can get very good results, with the right suplemments. You all would think I'm sponsoring MuscleTech but I think their products are the best and I'm gonna start using NitroTech and CellTech now, combined with Animal Pak.

[BigGreen]

Yes, you make a valid point for consistent natural gains at your age. Come talk to me in seven years when a three pound gain in a year is considered decent progress. I went from 165 or so at HS graduation to having hit 260 retaining what would be called definition to the layperson without ever having touched the stuff, but it would be foolish to think I could add another 95 pounds over the next five years in the same manner, if at all.

[Executioner]

Come back in 5 years of training and you're gains have slowed/halted. I started lifting at 13 and went from 130 to 215 naturally, 215-240 with and now I'm almost 18. I eat over 300 grams of protein a day, like most of the serious lifters on here. I put in my years of hard work and I made some personal decisions. Nobody needs you're criticism, especially those who have been lifting a lot longer than you.

[Kid Shred]

Thanks for the words of wisdom SmallNatural, you have made me see the light, tomorrow is a new day for me and I'm stopping all my old habits and jumpin' on my NitroTech tomorrow.

[BigGreen]

I think we can, and should, cut this guy a little slack on the experience factor. When I blew up from 165 to 205 or so my first year training I, while not expecting 40 pound gains year in and year out, did expect dramatic gains rivaling that for the rest of my days. I remember telling someone that I wanted to graduate college at 300. I was just so enthused by such a dramatic transformation that I was blind to the (lack of) rationale of what i was thinking.

No cycle, in my opinion, can EVER rival puberty/final stages of maturity, as EVERY single aspect of your body is attuned to simply grow...you'll never get that again, at leat not in our lifetimes. For that reason, I think the OPs ignorance is understandable.

[usualsuspect]

Come back in 5 years of training and you're gains have slowed/halted. I started lifting at 13 and went from 130 to 215 naturally, 215-240 with and now I'm almost 18. I eat over 300 grams of protein a day, like most of the serious lifters on here. I put in my years of hard work and I made some personal decisions. Nobody needs you're criticism, especially those who have been lifting a lot longer than you.

I think smalls was simply stating that alot of newbies quickly sell themselves short of achieving their goals naturally and turn to aas prematurely. I agree with that 100%. He could have said in a lighter fashion I suppose but anyone that actually took it as criticism probably has some issues of their own.

Seems like bumping heads with other members is becoming all too much of a frequent pattern for you here. Remember nobody needs your attitude here, so whether your just hijacking a thread telling us how big you are or telling someone to back down b/c you have more training experience than they do...neither matter and nobody's care. This board exists to exchange bb knowledge and help others out....your not doing either so give it a rest...cuz your pissing ppl off.

~US~

[Executioner]

I agree with BigGreen, because I should have cut him some slack. However, I don't agree with you chiming in like you have something worthwhile to say. What was your goal in making that post? To piss me off? I didn't insult you, and as a knowledgeable steroid user I believe a little offense should be taken to a post like this. What's wrong with telling someone that I have more experience than them and have been successful, and to reconsider their point of view? If you're bigger than me and have more experience than I do, I would listen. Just like this guy should. And I hijacked a thread about some guy talking about how big he is and never posting pics. YOU need to stop bumping my head and grow up. BigGreen basically stated the same thing as you except he didn't make it personal. Use some presence of mind and stop trying to piss me off. By the way, I'm sorry if I came off rash smallnatural. You have a valid point. My mistake.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Thanks for all the replies people. Executioner, no problem bro, be cool. I said at the beggining of my post that it WAS NOT my intention to criticize steroid users, but rather to make a point. Perhaps all of you are right and I will get stuck somewhere along my musclebuilding journey, but I don't plan on packing too much mass anyway.

My goal right now is reaching 175 pounds, then cut. Who knows? Maybe then I will want to go up to the 200's but I don't plan to be a muscle monster, my genetics simply won't allow me to.

Thanx

[talon]

<-----150 pounds to 193 pounds in one year...Like BIGGREEN said nothing rivals the end of puberty, intro to becoming a man....though this does stop and then you need more to defy you genetic potential...I do give you mad props though bro. In my opinion it takes just as much dedication, no matter which road you choose, to build muscle. You spent you time in the gym, your getting results, and thats all that matters...Keep up the good work man...Im proud of you....

[ENraged]

a friend and mentor of mine is an "all natural body builder"
and even he uses prohormones and anything he can think of to boost his test levels. i will admit he is a true manimal. but he will never make it in the pros with out hitting a few cycles his frame is just maxed out now. he is like lee priest with out the juice. as for people selling them self short by rushing in to AS cycles i dont really buy that. What is the def. of a "natural bb" anyways? always wondered that.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Very good question. It's pretty relative but my own personal definition would be that bodybuilder who doesn't use any synthetic performance drugs-anabolic steroids to reach any physical or strenght advantage. Sure, this is a very sensitive and relative issue to many people I know, since using creatine and pro-hormones is like already cheating since your body won't produce those normally at the necessary levels to make you grow. The same could be said about protein too.

In my case, I've only been using protein. This is the part where I think that NATURAL BODYBUILDING can't be defined as lifting weights without taking any suplemments and just a right diet. It simply doesn't happen. A man lifting weights for a year without taking any protein suplemment would grow hardly 5 pounds in a year, if nothing at all, just tuning up.

I've been training on the gym for 10 months now, I told you, on the first 4 months I gained 25 pounds. After that, my money fell short and I couldn't buy any NitroTech, so I was hitting the weights completely natural. MONTHS 5 THRU 8 CAME WITH NO CHANGES, JUST TUNING UP. When college was over and it was vacation time I got very sick and stopped training for one month too, that's when I dropped. Finally, I recovered my weight by coming back.

My current weight is 153 pounds. I'm gonna start using creatine (CellTEch) stacked with the NitroTEch protein now. Some people won't call me a natural bodybuilder, that's where your question is interesting. But generally, suplemments like protein and creatine are considered the "healthy" and "natural" stuff to take because a combination of those won't allow you to dramatically increase your weights and/or your muscular size and it won't give you damaging side effects.

Remember, I'm talking about the general opinion, in no way I pretend to offend any steroid user here, but just giving a healthy discussion.

Thanks.

[RoNNy THe BuLL]

Just eat more calories then you burn, and you will grow. Not as fast as while on the AS and probably not with the quality, but you will grow. It all depends on who has the patience to work over a year in the gym and watch their diet to the T OR who wants to run a 12 week cycle. Whatever floats your boat.

[MMC78]

Some people won't call me a natural bodybuilder, that's where your question is interesting.

Huh? For using creatine and protien? The definition of natural to most people (and this is the definition that counts btw) is no AAS.

Another thing, you're 5'11" at 153lbs, you really don't have the experience to make the kinds of statements that you have. Doesn't matter if you started at 128lbs and gained 25, anyone could do that on a 5'11" frame.

[ross3814]

like you said, you dont want to be huge because your genetics wont allow it. Well if you wanted to piss on genitics and step it up a notch, get gear.

[Smallnaturalbuilder]

Some people won't call me a natural bodybuilder, that's where your question is interesting.

Huh? For using creatine and protien? The definition of natural to most people (and this is the definition that counts btw) is no AAS.

Another thing, you're 5'11" at 153lbs, you really don't have the experience to make the kinds of statements that you have. Doesn't matter if you started at 128lbs and gained 25, anyone could do that on a 5'11" frame.

Look at Enraged's post and you will see that some people still have problems with a proper definition to natural bodybuilding. I for certain know of guys who think that using creatin is cheating, and only use protein. As for my experience, I haven't done any extraordinary statements like that of a seasoned veteran, so I don't know why are you complaining.

The only thing I said is that I'm training hard and natural and gained 25 pounds of mass. I said that maybe one day I could use juice but I don't see it right now and my purpose is not to critizice but rather to make a personal point and get more knowledge from guys more experienced than me.

Another thing, I'm 5'10, and my rapid gains were done in 4 months, that was my point. Anybody can go up 20 pounds, but the factor here is the time, and that's why the majority of people use steroids, because they don't feel like waiting a year for a 15-20 pound gain.

[ENraged]

YUp ENraged has a big problem whith what is "Natural" WHen you say natural i think someone who trains hard and eats his ass off maybe a multi vit but nothing else. enhanced would be supplements, roids creatine whatever. But that is just m/o.
Honestly i have the way bb has gone. but progress is progress