Getting really lean

[beenie]

Partyboynyc offered to help me cut bf% so I am listening to what he tells me and following his advice. I increased my bf% during my cycle and was up to 14%. Precycle I was about 10 or 11%. So far its lots of cardio and ECA stacks. Also added weighted resistance to my ab routine. BF% appers to be going down aand I'll prpbasbly retest in a week or two. The real test will be seein my lower abs.

What I would REALLY like is to take my bf% into the single digits and really get cut up. So far I have never been able to do it, so I am hoping that I'll be able to do it.

[MBaraso]

Beenie: I'm sure if their's anyone to give you advice on B/F% IT is Partyboy....He looks awsome....But where's your pic? lol
I look to do the same thing....
Party: Give us a response!!!

M

[beenie]

Ok, I added my photo. As you see, I am muchy in my lower abs. It drives me crazy, and I am tryin to get rid of the fat. I have a way to go, and as I say, I am workin on it under the direction of PartyboyNYC.

[beenie]

I have been making progrss. PBNYC had me increase ab routine and I incresed cardio. I am getting much leaner. Lost some mass.

[bufchic]

Beenie, Beenie, Beenie..... what are you doing???
You had better go put some muscle on before you try cutting your bf. You dont have a foundation yet, your waaay ahead of yourself. I can see your ribs. Are you eating? I can understand if you want to be lean but not skinny! I think you are one to do the high protein, low carb thing if I remember right. BIG MISTAKE.
No flame, Im just going to tell it like it is while everyone else will bullshit you.

[beenie]

I like seein my ribs. That being said, I am too thin now. Also I started with a pretty good foundation, but burnt through a lot of it in my bf reduction. I'll start to bulk in another month, but I agree with your assessment of my current physique.

I really need to start bulking now, but cant really do it as I will be traveling.

Yea, I do the low carb thing. I was retaining my muscel pretty well untill I reduced my fat intake on the advice of several board members. Then EVERYTHIG started to melt away- Muscle and fat.

My goal here was to get the bf% way down, before I start to bulk, and I think I have accomplished that. I am gunna try to stabalize my weight now, as I have lost a lotta muscle. My strength, believe it or not has not diminished much. I bench 185 on my working set and max at 235. Look, for most of the guys on THIS board that ain't much, but six months ago I could only bench
135, so for me the trends are good.

I'll post again when I start to beef up and u will see what I mean. It'll come back real quick.

[bufchic]

Beenie.... YOU HAVE TO EAT CARBS. Pleeeeaaassssse do your homework on what low carb diets do to the body. Low carb diets are the WORST thing a bb or someone wanting to lose fat and keep muscle can do. Or anyone wanting to be healthy, period.

You know, I can keep on preaching and if everyones stupid enough to not listen...fuck it. At least I will look bad ass.

[Ironweb]

I agree bufchic. BB need their carbs as much as they need their protein. Carbs help in the contraction of muscles. Need that to lift. But to each his own, I do not eat as clean as I should but I get my balance of carbs-protein-fats. BB it is about balance. With that said don't give up keep pushing and you will get where you want to be.

[defdaz]

Ironweb - sorry but I have to comment on your quote as it may worry a lot of beginner bodybuilders (or not - I'm only guessing!):

Carbs help in the contraction of muscles. Need that to lift.

Was this just a simplication or something? Muscles contract using energy released from the breakdown of ATP. This in turn is replenished by creatine which itself is replensished by glycogen. This glycogen can be created by a good few means by the body, of which only one is from carbs! Fat, protein and ketones are other sources and it is from these sources that people on the low carb diets get the energy to train. There is a short period of adaptation sure but needing carbs to train? Just not true.

Having said that I am against low carb diets as I've told beenie before. It's good to see that you have nearly reached your goal bro - have you managed to change your eating / sleeping habits at all? You are one extreme dude!

I agree with bufchic (as virtually always!) though beenie - you need to start packing the mass back on bro, and sensibly....

def

[Pete235]

Originally posted by beenie
I like seein my ribs. That being said, I am too thin now.

Ok...I'm just gonna say what I think, it's just an opinion and not a flame.

Beenie, you don't look like you even lift wieghts let alone have used (or are using AAS). Sure you're lean and I'm positive you probably look great in fitted clothes, but what exactly are your goals bro? If you want to be lean, keep doing what your doing. If you want to be lean, hard and healthy looking, consider what others are telling you. If you want to be jakked and muscular, then you have to TOTALLY re-think how you eat.

Look maybe I'm in no position to give you advice, I'm not lean and shredded at present...not even close. But I do carry a decent amount of muscle mass and my plan is to be much leaner in 12 weeks and I plan on following a high carb, high protein diet. I've always been an advocate of trial and error, so during the next 12 weeks, I am going to eat EXACTLY as bufchic suggests and see where it takes me. Maybe we can compare progress (seriously) and chart the differen't results. I think I read that you are about to undertake another cycle...correct? So am I? Are you interested. If not, no worries bro. This is not a flame and I'm not calling you out, just a suggestion.

[beenie]

Defdaz,

Thanks for asking. Yea, the change in my diet made a big difference, and morte drastic than I would have liked. I cut the fat way back, and my weight dripped very fast. About 10 lbs in a week.

I have been sleeping better and been more cognezent of stuff based on your and other member comments. I think that part of the problem ghad to do with working out so late and drinking so much water. I think part of the problem may be from the ECA stacks. I take the last at 7p and work out till 10300 or so, have dinner do some work and try to go to bed. I know this is far from optimal, but its what I am able to do logistically.

[Ironweb]

Yes Defdaz I was keeping it simple. You are right in what you are saying I don't disagree at all.

[beenie]

Okay, I did it. Had half a cup of boiled rice with lunch and had the sauce on the biled chiken and brocoli. If I blow up like a balloon, I am gunna yell at you guys. The rice represents the first real carbs I have ingested in 2.5 years. Wow, though it tasted goooooooooooood.

[beenie]

Pete235>

Sorry I though I responded to what you were saying before. I don't think it posted though.

Maybe the pic doesn't do me justice cause I do look like I work out. Sure i don't look like you, and probably most of the members on the board are REALLY big. This is not my goal. My first goal is to be lean, second to have more mass. Presently my chest is 44 and waiste is 32. Its a pretty nice proportion. My goal at this point is to get better ab definition and build my chest sholders and arms up a bit more. I'd like to add a couple inches, but I don't want to sacrifive any of the definition I have, I want to make that better. I'd also like to be able to handle more weight.

I travel in February, but when I come back I will really start to try to beef up.

In the mean time I have cut my cardio back from 90 minutes to 30 and added a few carbs for the first time in years. I'll look to see how this goes. I am doing this gradually as I am still somewhat apprehensive, and I want to see the shor term results.

My workout yesterday (before carbs) was very strong. I REPEAT I have not lost strength, just size. I suspect that this will fair well in terms of making fast progress on my upcoming cycle. If I can get the same percentage results this time as I did last, I will be very close to where I want to be. I just hate to sacrifice bf% in the process. I really like the lean look (not the skinny look).

[beenie]

Diesel>

Anyone may respond to any of my posts. I have found that more points of view give me more to think about. I have actually learned so much since stumbling accross this board, and info I have received has been REALLY beneficial.

Additionally, I have made some really good friends here, albeit online friends. But there are a lot of really good people on this board and I feel enobled for associating with them.

[Pete235]

Originally posted by Diesel
Is that just for Beenie Pete? Or can anyone call you out on that one?

Well Deis...I'm gonna post before, midway and afters regardless, but yopur more than welcome to join me in the ride. Comparing notes would be interesting.

No worries Beenie...as I said bro, I was not flaming you, just stating my opinion. I posted my pics and opened myself to citicism as well. Hell I'm far from where I want to be and if any member had opinions on what, they felt, I needed to do...I'd be more than interested in hearing those opinions. Seems like you have the same idea

[bufchic]

Beenie... Have you ever thought maybe you have an eating disorder? 2.5 years without real carbs? WTF? Get real. 90 min of cardio? Why? You are not using logical judgement, or common sense.

My first goal is to be lean, second to have more mass.

Really??? Good luck. Try being more realistic and switching that around.
I am 180-185, 10-12%, size 8-10. I go on stage around 160, 5.5-6%, size 5-6. Thats lean, but a thick, hard, solid and HEALTHY lean. My muscle loss is MINIMAL. Getting the point??? My strength takes a shit but I dont care as long as I look on. I dont abuse my body any more than I have to cause I think and get the knowledge to do it that way. I can do this anytime I want WITH a TON of carbs. I have watched bb cut there carbs and be in misery then actually listen to me and start eating and look 10 times better and they are happier. Dont you watch TV? Knowledge is power. Isnt that the public announcement?
Your just not making sense and its making me nuts. Where did you get these crazy ideas? The multi millions apon millions of millionare, Dr Atkins doesnt give a shit about your health.
Thats it... Im adding a new signature

[bufchic]

Ok guys... is it me???

[beenie]

At this point Bufchic, I no longer agree with you assessment. I belkieve that I exersise a great deal of common sence, and just because it is not consistent with your belief does not mean it is without merit.

I started out very fat. I lost 100 lbs with low carb, much lower than atkins suggests (with you would already know since i know you have actually read at least one of his books, right? My fear with reintroducing carbs is that I have a fear, whether well founded or not, that the fat will come back. The diet has kept me very lean, and I can eat all I want so it is very simple.

As for 90 minutes of cardio, long distance runners do more, and very few people would classify them as unhealthy, right?

In fact, I accomplished my goal in record time, cutting about 4%of bf in just over 2 months. I confess at the expense of muscle mass, but repeat no loss in strength. I am pretty well defined too.

The reason I am changing this now, is because my weigth started to drop too fast, and I never REALLY wanted to lose weight per ce, just body fat. So as my goals change, my practices do too.

So, I think you shou reconsider you last comment. While my methods may be a bit extreme to you, I don't believe they are without merit.

[Ironweb]

Dr Atkins book and theroy I do not agree with. But if that's a person's choice then so be it. I understand your frustration bufchic I have a mother that lives on that diet and I can not convince her otherwise. It bothers me everytime I talk to her about it. Bottom line it is her choice.

Beenie at least your trying to get in shape and not sitting on the coach eating steak saying I wish I were not fat. Not saying that you are. That's to be comended. One thing to think about how many long distance runners do you see that are buff? Just my 2 cents.

[Fast Results]

I need to put in some change on this one....

If you lost 100 lbs from "no carbs" then all the power to ya, but it is just about impossible to know that you have had no carbs in 2.5 years. You get carbs from other adds besides what it states on "the wrapper" You never had bread, onions turkey or anything with carbs in 2.5 years? You must be a very weak person. Please dont take this as a flame but you picture looks like you have had carbs in the last 2.5 years and trainning is something new to you.

Heres a little advice, if you want to do 90 mins of cardio then do it. If you want to follow Dr. Atkins then do so also. (Dr. Atkins is a good way to motivate yourself but it's not the healthiest way to follow IMO) You do whatever makes you feel good about yourself and gives "you" the results your looking for
Do yourself a favor and listen to what the people on the board have to say with an open mind bro... They have no reason to lie or mislead you in anyway. Knowledge is power and AR is "the" kinder board on the web any other board they'de just make you cry with some of the sh!t they say. By the way what do you think about my haircut?

[bufchic]

LOL Ok beenie.... Me and only several million doctors just happen to have those beliefs. Theres a difference between beliefs and medical facts. Then someone like Atkins and a few others come along and brain wash everyone on a quick, miserable, unhealthy fix. More than likely you lost 100lb because you simply cut out all your simple carbs and started exercising. Yeah, thats what will happen if you do that. You couldve lost 100lb with carbs and looked more of what your going for.
God, I am giving you awesome advice that would make you look sooooooo much better and you cant utilize it cause you are stuck on your fad and defensive over it. Ok great so I can go along with the others, Beenie if it is working for you than do it. But you come on here looking for a better way and looking to look better, Im just handing it to you. I dont look the way I look by accident or off of beliefs. Ive paid my dues. Ive tried it all, Ive had clients that have tried this and that and oh... I did read the book... then I threw it out. If you really wanted to just lose bf you wouldnt be doing the low carb shit. So that is why you are NOT making sense. Between your contradictions and extreme ideas that IS making me nuts. You posted a thread, I gave my 2 cents. It can be a persons choice to use the low carb theory but if they are still looking for better results and not willing to take a solution.... Shut up and be happy with what your doing then.
BB and your body IS a balance, you cant treat it in extremes.

[defdaz]

Sorry beenie but I agree with the others.... and you have to admit that bufchics posts are great to read, right?! I give you dues for losing the 100 pounds you have lost - this takes a lot of effort and discipline (beats my 70 pounds easy huh!?) but it does sound like is time to change your diet...

Which in beenie's defense he does sound like he is doing - albeit slowly and cautiously, which is no bad thing eh? That rice is the first step back to normality mate! You know, to me it sounds almost as though you have developed a fear of carbs - which if true shows how big a step that rice was for you - big respect for that dude.

What everyone says is bang on the money beenie - healthy eating. There is nothing to fear about eating carbs unless you eat too many and too much fat along with them.

Keep up with the reforms to your diet (and training!) bro and have a great time travelling!

Oh hey, my website - www.growthlog.com is nearing its beta stage - would any of you chaps like to use it when it's ready? It's basically an online training and diet journal...

def

PS bufchic - LOVE the sig, hee hee

[Fast Results]

So no one likes my haircut?

I got it from Dr. Atkins

[beenie]

Fast Results>

I do not believe anyone here has lied to me. I believe that they share thier hones opinions. Even within the medical community opinions differ and the more I hear the better.

In 2.5 years I HAVE NEVER cheated. Not at Christmas, Easter, Passover or Thanksgiving. So, if this is not the way you would expect someone to look who has not eaten carbs on 2.5 years you ought to reexamine what YOU think the diet makes people look like. Cause this is what it makes you look like. People tell me I look thin, but NOBODY says I don't look like I work out. (it may be a crappy pic cause I took it with my pc camand had to hold the cam while i took the pic. the main point of the pic was to get in my lower abs- thats what I have really been targeting).

Look I know I am smaller than most of the guys on this board, and thats ok with me. I never wanted to be huge.All I can say is that the pic may not do me justice or maybe you are comparing me to Deisel or Ironweb. I am NEVER going to be like that. For them its good- they look great. I just want to be biggER and lean.




Fast Results said:
I need to put in some change on this one....

If you lost 100 lbs from "no carbs" then all the power to ya, but it is just about impossible to know that you have had no carbs in 2.5 years. You get carbs from other adds besides what it states on "the wrapper" You never had bread, onions turkey or anything with carbs in 2.5 years? You must be a very weak person. Please dont take this as a flame but you picture looks like you have had carbs in the last 2.5 years and trainning is something new to you.

Heres a little advice, if you want to do 90 mins of cardio then do it. If you want to follow Dr. Atkins then do so also. (Dr. Atkins is a good way to motivate yourself but it's not the healthiest way to follow IMO) You do whatever makes you feel good about yourself and gives "you" the results your looking for
Do yourself a favor and listen to what the people on the board have to say with an open mind bro... They have no reason to lie or mislead you in anyway. Knowledge is power and AR is "the" kinder board on the web any other board they'de just make you cry with some of the sh!t they say. By the way what do you think about my haircut?

[beenie]

Defaz>

Yea it is a fear of carbs. They got me fat in the first place. Logically you are right and I am convinced enough to start eating them again - gradually.

My trainer has been telling me for quite a while that with all the cardio i do (and i cut that way back too cause I was getting scared my weight was dropping too fast) that I'll burn them off no prob.

Did I mention: the rice tasted gooooooooood. And it made me feel soooooo stuffed all afternoon kinda bloated. Maybe I'll go crazy and pick up a dry bagel before work.

Cheerio.

[bufchic]

Thanks Def...love ya

In 2.5 years I HAVE NEVER cheated. Not at Christmas, Easter, Passover or Thanksgiving. So, if this is not the way you would expect someone to look who has not eaten carbs on 2.5 years you ought to reexamine what YOU think the diet makes people look like. Cause this is what it makes you look like. People tell me I look thin, but NOBODY says I don't look like I work out. (it may be a crappy pic cause I took it with my pc camand had to hold the cam while i took the pic. the main point of the pic was to get in my lower abs- thats what I have really been targeting).

Beenie read this. That is called eating disorder. I dont want to re examine what a low carb diet makes people look like. I dont think its attractive. It makes people unhealthy and sickly looking. To address your runner comment... runners eat carbs, some more than others and train for "running" so they are going to train longer than the adverage individual. There is a difference between training for the shear love and hobby and training because you are trying to lose weight. Ive never known a true runner to care about losing weight or not understanding the importance of carbs. Bad analogy... are you a runner? IMO runners still dont look good but they at least usually look in shape or healthy.

Yes the medical communittee has differing opinions all the time but look to, who is saying what. And the senarios in opinions. Whos getting paid for saying what? And what is tried and true. That is using commons sense and thinking.

NOBODY says I don't look like I work out.

Thats proof right there that you arent actually reading these post very closely. A lot of people may not say it out of being nice. The low carb diet is not giving you that hard, buff, "I train my ass of look". I hope you are not using.

The problem is you dont even understand carbs... CARBS DID NOT MAKE YOU FAT.. YOU made you fat!!! I am where I am cause every time someone who might know something gave me some advice I would go research it. I was always glad I did whether they knew what they were talking about or not.
It has nothing to do with being huge it has everything to do with being and looking healthy. I am not trying to make you feel bad or be ugly, but you are a perfect case to get my point across. There is nothing you can give me that I dont have an even better rebutle for.
Quick results... its a fad and no room for it in the bb world.

No Fast I dont like your haircut.

[beenie]

Not taking it as a flame for the most part Diesel. I was a little upset about a couple of Bufchic's comments about me not doing homework. I think that the exchange of ideas is great, I just wasnt't looking for a personal attack.

Anyway I have gotten over it, and I see that the way she frames her argument is just her way. I do not doubt the sincerity of her or anyone else's opinion and by posting my pic and progress I invited it.

I am a pragmatist, and will do what I need to do to accomplish my goals. If it means eating carbs, I'll eat them: whatever it takes.

[defdaz]

beenie - I hope you appreciate all the effort us lot is putting into you... (I know you do, I'm just kidding)

Actually I do care, out of everyone on this board I'm more interested in your progression (and that of llbeastcd) and helping out any way that I can! Maybe it's because I've been well overweight too I dunno but I'm rootin' for ya bro!

Did you get that bagel in the end?! I hope you are doubling your vit b intake - your body isn't going to know what to do with all those carbs, lol!

bufchic - hee hee

Fastresults - you are looking good mate! That first shot of you is the best, I reckon...

def

[beenie]

No bagel Defaz, but I had rice with lunch again. I got really sleepy afterward, but that might have little to do with the rice. As for my rice yesterday, I did not blow up like a baloon overnight as I had feard. I gained 1 lb, but that could eaily be ordinary weight fluctuation. I suspect I'll gain some water weight here, as i have been in ketosis for 2.5 years.

[Fast Results]

Originally posted by defdaz
[
Fastresults - you are looking good mate! That first shot of you is the best, I reckon...

def [/B]

Thanks defdaz, I got a long way to go but I'll get there as long as it takes

[Billy Boy]

Beenie I do not know everything about diet and I hold my hands up to that but what you are doing is extremely unhealthy.Cutting carbs out of your diet also reduces the amount of protein you can consume.A lot of people do not understand this but you NEED carbs for your body to utilise the protein you consume.Seriously bro reading what you have written and others comments I am beginning to think you have an eating disorder.I agree everyone wants to be toned and lean but I mean with all due respect and no anmosity in this next comment but you look like a guy who needs a bloody good meal.

Please reconsider your long term goals because I am geniunely concerned that the diet you are performing at this moment is one that will lead you to ill health.

Your body needs carbs like it needs water and air and unless you are to compete I would say a no carb diet is one that is very bad.

Beenie PM me if you want to discuss this further or ask any questions like I said I don,t know all the answers but I,ll try and find out any info you need

[beenie]

.

[bufchic]

unless you are to compete I would say a no carb diet is one that is very bad.

If you are going to compete its just as bad if not WORSE.

[Keightly]

I always hear about pepole wanting to be lean, they go on cutting diets, lower there carbs and think that that is teh way, wrong, if you lower your carbs you will loose a lot of muscle mass which you worked hard to get. The key is decipline. I had !8% body fat. I was big and puffy from taking phosphogen hp cytovol and whey protien. I feel that the following is the best lean diet. It work well for me, 3 moths of doing this and i have %6 body phat and am about as ripped as i can be. Here what I did if it interest anyone:
6:45am
Nutrigrain bar (apple cinnmin), chocolate protien shake with water(nitro tech)
9:30am
Nutrigrain bar
12:00am
Plain chicken breat, plain baked potato, single portion of apple sauce
2:30pm
Diet mountain Dew
5:00pm
Low sodium can of tuna fish plain with plain corn (1 cup)
6:00 pm
go to the gym
7:30-8:00 pm
mcdonalds chicken ceasar salad with low fat french dressing

I would do this mondy threw friday, and on Saturday and Sunday cheat, but not cheat to the point were its out of hand, still watch what you eat, put give in a little. Hope this helps

[Methuselah]

Low carb doesn't mean no carb. It means no simple carbs and sufficient complex carbs. AND... Tons of protein and adequate dairy fat. It looks like you went to far and are doing the Atkins diet; ketosis is not good for you. Eat more fruit, green veggies, milk, and any source for protien that you can find--meat, chicken, fish, pork, tofu, eggs. And, drink 4-5 shakes a day. You'll get the muscles and stay lean. You don't want to go catabolic, that means your losing muscle and fat. I made the same mistake in the beginning; I'm a huge fan of low carb, but you have to feed your body. It looks like you need to eat at least 3 times more than you think you do.

[Kid Shred]

I do think the Keto-Diet is awesome for those people that have packed on solid muscle in the offseason, and am a hard core disciple of it come the last weeks of winter through summer. However I agree with the rest of the peeps on this thread that Beenie needs to add more muscle structure to his frame and has no business restricting his carb intake. Congrats on the loss of 100 lbs, that's some serious work.Do you have any before pix ? Good thing you didn't get any nasty stretch marks. "Lift Long and Prosper!"

[beenie]

I have a couple pics from before, but my shirt is on. Honestly they are kind of embarrasing to show these days, but I'll see if I can find one to post. Since making my initial post I have modified my diet. The major change is the inclusion of green veggies, nuts and occasionally rice or a slice of bread. It has not had a negative impact.

My definition is pretty good right now and I am in the process of starting to try to build up again. Sometimes when I go too high on carbs I loose some of the definition I loke so much, so I cut them back and it returns in a couple days or so.

I have been drinking those shakes. The Protien by Design brand by Ansi tastes really good.

In terms of the stretch marks, I have some loose skin on my lower abs that I can't seem to tighten. I am not sure there is anything I can do about it without surgery. It's not particualry bad according to other people but it really does drive me crazy.

[stategrad]

Just remember balance....balance is the key. Devoiding your body of any macro nutrients is foolish. They all are necessary. Each one provides the essential materials for you body to function. Yes, you can cut one of the above. You body will adapt and have to continue its processes by converting certain elements into other ones. Cutting fat is hard, if it weren't, everyone would be 5 percent bf and never wearing clothes. Take some good advie from these senior members. Keep your carbs, protein, and 'good' fat grams up. It is crucial for you natural test levels as well as anything you are taking. Especially in your off time. That diet up above contains about enough nutrients for an 8 year old girl. Let's simplify this without going into all the scientific reasons for each. Lift 3-4 times a week, using periodiztion. Walk or jog, not run, 2-3 times a week. Jog for 30 or walk for 60 minutes. Walking is preffered so that you don't waste muscle or precious calories on the "cardio conundrum." You body releases fat after about 35 min walking. Just a fact. Eat 5-6 'balanced' meals per day. Take whatever it is you take: ECA, Ripped Fuel, Clen , winstrol whatever. Figure out glycemic indexes, calorie requirements, macronutrient requirements, and the fat will disappear. You can build and cut at the same time. However, each will be less than maximum. But guess what? That's life. You do what you can. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. You can't finish before you start. Do it hard man, but think first. No carbs! Ha!

[beenie]

I DID take the advice of many of the members and as I mentioned have reintorduced carbs to my diet. I still keep them lower than most people do, because its an effective way for me to keep looking defined, which is more important to me than looking big (although I really do wanna add mass).

I am currently trying to beef up a bit and unfortunately have been hit with the flu or a cold or something. I have cut back my workout schedule and am not pushing myself the way I'd really like to. I was supposed to work out this morning, but after the alarm went off I decided the extra sleep was more important. If I feel up to it I'll try again after work. If not there is alway tomorrow.