A hardgainer's week #1 and #2 (250mg Test E)

[BennyLom]

These shots are comparison of beginning of week one plus the end of week 2.


Cycle info
Cycle is a light one at 250mg Test E EW plus 75mg Proviron ED and hCG 250IUS E4D. Will run for 8 weeks total.


Note
I've been training (on and off) for more than ten years and I'm what you may call an extreme hard gainer, regardless of diet so don't assume this is a complete beginner jumping on a cycle (but this is in fact my first cycle). My primary focus, as you can gather from the pictures, is to bring up my legs, but also to build my triceps which has been holding back my bench for quite some time.


Progress so far
Strength gains were pretty much immediate and two days into the cycle I was already putting 10lbs more on my bench. Weight gain is good too but I assume a lot of it, at this point, is water (never been so thirsty as in the first week of this cycle). Currently I am in week #3 and total gains from week #1 amounts to 5kg or 11lbs.

[Big]

out of curiosity, what is your diet?

[BennyLom]

Hi Big

My current diet is about 3500 calories and it looks similar to this (yesterdays log). I say 'about' because I live in Thailand and much of the food here is not found in any databases so calorie count is somewhat hard to assess. I also have 8 hour school days with irregular breaks and here it is difficult to source quality foods. Hence days off from school are very good, but days at school are less than stellar in the diet department.

Meal 1 (6AM): mixing 1+ cup of oatmeal, ON Pro Complex gainer (60gr protein, 650 cal), 1 banana, 1 dragon fruit, water and green tea.
Meal 2 (9AM): 1.5 cups of milk, 1/2 cup of cashew nuts
Meal 3 (12PM): Basil fried Chicken, ordered with extra Chicken (still a small meal compared to a typical US portion). Green tea with milk.
Meal 4 (3PM): 1/2 cup of Peanuts
Meal 5 (6PM): 1/2 grilled large Chicken (Breast, thigh, wing)
Meal 6 (9PM): mixing 1+ cup of oatmeal, ON Pro Complex gainer (60gr protein, 650 cal), 1 banana. Water.


PS. I'm using a program on my iPhone called 'FitDay' to track my food intake against fitness goals.

[n00bs]

10 years of training?

I seriously dont believe you...

Even if you had hormonal **** ups you would of gained something...

Your diet is obviously shit, your training isnt right!


............................

*slaps forid.

Current 1rms? Do you squat? Do you deadlift? Do you press things above your head?

[BennyLom]

10 years of training?

I seriously dont believe you...

10+ years, yes. The truth.

Even if you had hormonal **** ups you would of gained something...

When I started lifting I weighted 68kg (150lbs) and before this cycle I was 78kg (near 172lbs) natural, so that is 10kg or 22lbs natural gains with about the same amount of BF% (but yes: over a ten year period...) Did I say I was a hard gainer? I did gain 10kg/22lbs however.

Your diet is obviously shit, your training isnt right!

I respect your opinion but its a bit judgemental without understanding the context in full. My diet could be better at the moment (but its been absolutely superb in the past when living in the US and in Europe) and my training is very good although I avoid certain exercises due to past injuries in knee, wrists and back.

[n00bs]

You could explain the context...

All i saw was 10 years training and i weigh XX kg now im doing gear...

If you have problems stopping you exercise they are rellivent and if you dont post them how can i read your mind?

If there are no problems then yes your diet and training is shit house as it has not yielded results..

[Vitruvian-Man]

You need to desperately work on your legs..

Your cycle is pretty foolish, to be completely honest, 250mg/wk of test with some proviron ? seriously?

On top of that, you're only running the test-E for 8 weeks.

I dunno.. I just don't like it at all. But if you think you've researched enough, and this is what you want to do, then go for it.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

.... and what the hell are those scratches going down your back in the week #2 pics

-VM

[BennyLom]

My exercise program looks like this (below).

Day #1 Chest & Triceps
Barbell bench press (if I have a spotter otherwise use machine)
Dumbell flye
Dumbell pull-over
Angled machine chest press
Machine chest flye (replace dumbell flye)

Bench dip
Triceps kickback
Machine triceps extension
Cable triceps pushdown (grip is alternated between training days -palm up or palm down)
Cable overhead extension

Day #2 Back & Biceps
Back raise
One-arm row (dumbell)
Lat pulldown
Chin-ups
Cable seated close row / or high row

Cable biceps curl (one hand or two hand)
Machine biceps curl (replaces cable biceps curl)
Concentration dumbell curl
Hammer curl
Angled prone curl

Day #3 Legs & Shoulders
Beginner squat (dumbells)
Dumbell lunge
Machine leg curl
Machine leg extensions
Machine leg press
Calf raise

Cable front raise
Cable side lateral raise
Cable rear lateral raise
Machine shoulder press
Shrugs
Standing scarecrow
Rotator cuff (external or internal)

Day #4 REST

Day #5 Recycle schedule (day #1)

[BennyLom]

You need to desperately work on your legs..

Indeed and that's why I included those birds legs in the pictures -as an in-my-face reminder. I do legs twice a week now at the gym, plus they get a beating during Thai boxing class once a week.

Your cycle is pretty foolish, to be completely honest, 250mg/wk of test with some proviron ? seriously?

On top of that, you're only running the test-E for 8 weeks.

I dunno.. I just don't like it at all. But if you think you've researched enough, and this is what you want to do, then go for it.

I do respect your opinion, but I think recommending first-timers to shoot 500mg Test EW is excessive and I'm looking for the best ratio of gains to adverse effects and I *think* I can grow "enough" on 250mg EW, so why shoot 500!?
Proviron is not in there to add size by itself, but it's in there as an anti-estrogen and to raise free Testosterone -thus allowing greater gains from the relatively small dose of Test (according to W. Llewellyn in his book 'Anabolics 2009', Mesterlone may provide said effects).

8 weeks is also based on the "fact" that beyond week 8 you generally see less gains from Test unless you increase the dosage. I see the choice of either increasing my EW dose or discontinuing. Pending progress by week 8 I may reconsider my position here.

If you want to comment on this, I'm all ears, but please understand before you dismiss me like this, that I did research this cycle and there is thought behind it. I'm open for discussing improvements however.

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

I'm 30 years old...

.... and what the hell are those scratches going down your back in the week #2 pics

No idea bro, but I have 80% humidity here so skin gets very sensitive to touch and that could simply be from pulling my shirt off...

[Vitruvian-Man]

I consider 10 weeks to be the minimum to run an Enanthane ester.

There are some exceptions to the rule (mega-doses, etc.) nothing that applies to your cycle though.

I mean honestly.. if you think you can gain off of this cycle, then go for it. As I stated in my first post, "if that's what you want to do, then go for it"

I am just not sure if I would waste my time suppressing/shutting down my HPTA for such a mild cycle.

Good luck though.

-VM

[vishus]

good luck with the cycle, i expect to see good results

[n00bs]

That is the most spastic progrma i have ever seen..

Begginer squats? You have been training for 10 years...

Seirously.. If your going to use gear workout properly and eat properly...

That routine is spastic on so many levels...

You cant tell me its not because then you could show me results..

[Vitruvian-Man]

That is the most spastic progrma i have ever seen..

Begginer squats? You have been training for 10 years...

Seirously.. If your going to use gear workout properly and eat properly...

That routine is spastic on so many levels...

You cant tell me its not because then you could show me results..

Ok... please don't take this terribly OP... but my 108 pound girlfriend can use the squat rack.. and your doing beginner squats? ...

-VM

[n00bs]

We have to straighten this board out...

here is a 19yo squatting 350kg...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFm9q1HBKY

[BennyLom]

Ok... please don't take this terribly OP... but my 108 pound girlfriend can use the squat rack.. and your doing beginner squats? ...

-VM

No fence taken and again, I included those legs in the pics so that we could all make fun of them The beginner squat is something of a warm-up exercise for me and I figure machine leg press is similar and that's were I load up on the weights...

Anyways, I really appreciate the input and commentary guys and hopefully I get to prove you all wrong a few weeks from now and then I will be accepting your sincere apologies If, not, well then I will admit my mistake, recover and reassess.

Pictures will be posted on a weekly basis.

[BennyLom]

That routine is spastic on so many levels...

That's not very constructive now, is it!? How about you explain what's wrong with my routine or just refrain from posting? Saying it's 'spastic' doesn't help me at all.

[n00bs]

Well 10 years of nothing theres proof...

Diet or Food, or hormones..

You said there were reasons for either not gaining or not training (medical?) If so explain.. If not do this/


Monday

squats 3x10
military press 3x6
stiff leg dead lift 2x12
bent rows 3x8
dips 3 x max

Tuesday
tabata thrusters

Wednesday
squat 5x5
bench press 5x5
deadlift 5x5

Thursday
Tabata Thrusters

Friday

squat 1x20
powerclean 5x3
push press 5x3
close grip bench press 3x6
bb curl 3x8


The fact you do leg curls and calf raises as a begginer is useless in itself... You have 10 years of training yet you are sitll a begginer..


Everyone here seems to follow these professional body builder splits that simply dont work for everyone..

People come and post oh i wont grow why? Well its blatently obvious to some of us...

People on here winging about not wanting to be strong. Wake up people pro body builders are strong... Some are as strong as some powerlifters and some are stronger...


I dare you to get strong and eat and watch yourself grow....

[Vitruvian-Man]

^^ Now that's decently laid out routine.

-VM

[BennyLom]

Well 10 years of nothing theres proof...

Diet or Food, or hormones..

You said there were reasons for either not gaining or not training (medical?) If so explain..

I might have hinted at past injuries. As you see in my pictures I have long back (from my father who suffers constant back injuries) and I have excessive wear (X-ray on full spine shows this) on some vertebra in back and neck. This means I generally will avoid heavy lifts with free weights (some of which you are suggesting) and instead replace with machines where I have more control of posture and range of motion. I also have a knee injury from Thai boxing and I broke both wrists in my late teens which still causes ligament pains in many free weight exercises (barbell curls in particular). That's about it.

I will look at some of your exercises, but anything risking my back will not be used.

[n00bs]

Actually laot of people have fixed their bad/weak backs with deadlifts.. You would be suprised..

DO you know why you have the condition you do?

I read alot about back degeneration being related to vitamin c and certain other co factors and enzymes that really hlep...

Is it bone or cartlidge?

[Noles12]

You were not ready to cycle. Plain and simple.

I could say i have been training for 12 years if i consider any working out i have done. Hell i got a weight set for christmas when i was 10. But when we talk about training we mean serious constant training. I would say i have less than 5 years of serious consistent training but i have a lot more to show than your 10 years.

IMO you need to work on your diet and stop AAS. Get in the gym, get bigger naturally then come back when you are actually ready

[gbrice75]

Not to pile on, but I have to agree with the above posts. Hardgainer or not, you should have alot more to show for 10 years of training. There are threads in this section dispelling the whole hardgainer 'myth' anyway, with pics to prove it.

To echo the others, I would not proceed with this cycle (or have you already started?). Rather, get over to the diet section and let's start working that out.

[LeroyB]

Ummm:

Meal 1 (6AM): mixing 1+ cup of oatmeal, ON Pro Complex gainer (60gr protein, 650 cal), 1 banana, 1 dragon fruit, water and green tea.
Meal 2 (9AM): 1.5 cups of milk, 1/2 cup of cashew nuts
Meal 3 (12PM): Basil fried Chicken, ordered with extra Chicken (still a small meal compared to a typical US portion). Green tea with milk.
Meal 4 (3PM): 1/2 cup of Peanuts
Meal 5 (6PM): 1/2 grilled large Chicken (Breast, thigh, wing)
Meal 6 (9PM): mixing 1+ cup of oatmeal, ON Pro Complex gainer (60gr protein, 650 cal), 1 banana. Water.

This is not even in the same nation as enough food bud?
No wonder your not growing!

[Vitruvian-Man]

Day #3 Legs & Shoulders
Beginner squat (dumbells)
Dumbell lunge

Bump for more info on the Beginner Squat w/ dumbells.

What type of weight are you squatting?

-VM

[BennyLom]

@ VM: You're a really cool guy aren't you!?

As noted, the squat with dumbells is a warm-up exercise for training my legs. The naming of said exercise was taken from the iPhone 'iFitness' application which I use to track exercises and progress in terms of weight and body measurements.

But yeah, if you want to be an internet tough guy then go ahead bro.

[stevey_6t9]

dumbell squats are hard. Using the 120's each hand i recon is harder then squatting 315.

[n00bs]

dumbell squats are hard. Using the 120's each hand i recon is harder then squatting 315.

Your from austrlaia talk in kg! Let them convert it!

Doesnt mean it isnt a retarded exercise.. Seriously back squat front squat overhead squat... Not too hard.

[Exilus]

Out of curiosity what are your lifts? Some hardgainers are exceptionnaly strong for their weight.

Bench: X weight X reps?
Military press?
Squat?
Deadlift?

[Noles12]

@ VM: You're a really cool guy aren't you!?

As noted, the squat with dumbells is a warm-up exercise for training my legs. The naming of said exercise was taken from the iPhone 'iFitness' application which I use to track exercises and progress in terms of weight and body measurements.

But yeah, if you want to be an internet tough guy then go ahead bro.

I dont think he was being tough at all. I have never heard of beginner DB squats either. He was simply asking for what you meant and you flipped

[cobra305]

Your diet is why you are a "hardgainer." It seems as if you are to busy making excuses for your inability to eat and train right. Spend as much time in the gym and the kitchen as you do making excuses and you will grow. From your pics it honestly looks as if you have never touched a weight a day in your life.
I also did not see a mention of your proposed pct for this wicked crazy cycle youy are running. What are your plans for that?

[Vitruvian-Man]

Sorry didn't mean to offend you OP.. ok we'll let's get some info then.

I've just seriously never heard of anyone saying they are ready; yet they can't even handle a squat rack/bar :S...

We are trying to make this cycle the best possible for you, and with that workout routine, I don't think you're going to maximize your gains whatsoever.

Why don't you give us a little information regarding how much weight you're actually lifting per each exercise...

-VM

[Vitruvian-Man]

I just want to add this is in because I think it's fairly important for you to hear.

In all honesty, you started this cycle at 6'0 and weighing 170 pounds. That's a fact.

Moreover, your body in the pictures looks very undeveloped, and does not scream "i've been working out for 10 years".... and yes, I realize you're a hard gainer... but still man, you should have some sort of definition showing after all that work.

The reason there aren't like 300 guys in here telling you not to cycle is because you're 30 years old and should be mature enough. However, that said, just because you biological age is appropriate with AAS usage; it doesn't mean your body is ready whatsoever.

Looking at your diet... I mean inbetween 12 - 6pm (6hrs) you eat 1/2 a cup of peanuts as your protein source, and nothing else during that time.

Bro.. I'm in no way a diet guru.... but to me that just speaks for itself.

-VM

[BennyLom]

Week 3 is completed on my cycle --that according to you guys (with few exceptions) is not worth taking at all and on a body that looks as if it has never worked out. During this week with this useless cycle and with the combination of my useless diet, I have through my "spastic" training regimen including of course the infamous "beginners barbell lunge", managed to add a the useless amount of 6.6 lbs of weight.
This amounts to a total gain (end of week 3) of 13.2 lbs

Now if we can have an adult and respectful discussion moving forward, that would be much appreciated.

Week #4 Modifications
-I have replaced my second meal (snack) with a real meal.
-Adding a meal here however, means I may not have time to do two large muscle groups in one gym session
-Hence, my new training schedule starting today is:

Schedule:
Day 1: Back
Day 2: Chest
Day 3: Arms (triceps and biceps should be OK in a short session)
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Legs

Notes on progress:
Gained some good weight last week and fat is getting lower around my abs (getting harder to grab my belly for the hCG shots).
I have a tear in a tendon in left lower arm from not using wraps when training back in week 2. Therefore during week 3, I did not train biceps and instead did two leg sessions and with lower weights on chest and shoulders.

[n00bs]

DO SOME SQUATS FFS!!

LEGS NEED TO GROW...

Your biceps are the size of your hammies and quads... If they get any bigger i will fly to your *unknown location* to forid slap you personally!

[cobra305]

Still waiting on your proposed pct.

I will also say congrats on the gains but once you come off cycle witht that diet I believe you will be dissapointed by your inability to keep any of those gains. But time will tell I hope you prove us all wrong.

[BennyLom]

Regarding PCT, I have enough Nolva and Clomid to support the "standard" PCT protocol (as proposed on this forum). That being said, I am opting for a compromise that considers hCG used during cycle. Suffice to say that I have everything at hand and that the actual implementation will be set on my last week of "on" cycle, be that the standard protocol or something slightly milder.

[BennyLom]

Still waiting on your proposed pct.

I will also say congrats on the gains but once you come off cycle witht that diet I believe you will be dissapointed by your inability to keep any of those gains. But time will tell I hope you prove us all wrong.

I recognize this (that a long term orientation is needed towards diet) and its work in progress. I don't need to hear it could be better already, I realize that.

[n00bs]

hCG doesnt stop your HPTA from shutting down... It will still shut down..

PCT is to kickstart this..

All hCG does is mimmick LH to the testicles.. The testicles dont have a brain they dont say "oh we ar egetting a signal everything is fine"

What happens when you cut hcg out? All hCG will do is prevent testicle atrophy.. The increased testosterone will still stop the HPTA...

[cobra305]

I recognize this (that a long term orientation is needed towards diet) and its work in progress. I don't need to hear it could be better already, I realize that.

Do not take offense to what I am saying but you should have got it in order prior to the use of aas. Regardless hcg is not a valid pct you should use while on cycle to help maintain your testicular fungtion but nolva and clomid will still be needed. With test e you will want to start 2 weeks after your last inj and follow the standrd protocol.

[BennyLom]

Do not take offense to what I am saying but you should have got it in order prior to the use of aas. Regardless hcg is not a valid pct you should use while on cycle to help maintain your testicular fungtion but nolva and clomid will still be needed. With test e you will want to start 2 weeks after your last inj and follow the standrd protocol.

No offense taken.

I understand Nolva/Clomid is still needed for PCT, and I have them, I am just considering a less harsh configuration. I have a few ideas from other members but they're not evaluated at this point.