First Sust/Deca/Winny Cycle

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:13 AM

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**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:15 AM

Before # 2

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:16 AM

Before # 3

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:17 AM

1 Month after: Picture 1

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:18 AM

1 Month after: Picture 2

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:20 AM

1 Month after: Picture 3

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 08:21 AM

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**gundam675** · 06-27-2003, 12:13 PM

ha bro, ur fine, i used to look like that LONG AGO. but that was old, have faith! thats all u need ! a lil bit of cutting be4 juicing woulda helped a bit cause ur gonna add a lil more bf, but u got the winny and stuff !

good luck !

**tdzzii72** · 06-27-2003, 05:11 PM

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**HybridWideAngle** · 06-27-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Nocturnal59

Am I going to add a lot of BF? I think I have enough fat right now.

I interpetided it as the muscle from the bulking cycle will replace most of the fat. Is this a wrong asumption?

Well bulking is just that, adding size in muscle and fat. But the more muscle you got the easier it is to burn that fat off. Just dont expect to lose too much fat if any on a bulking diet.

**TheJuicer** · 06-27-2003, 07:19 PM

Well bro man..this is what I did and its working for me..After my last cycle I did my clomid then started a ECA cycle of 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with a low carb diet...I thought that i would lose my muscle but actually I have lost fat and add muscle in my cutting diet I made sure this time to keep my protein pretty high and the carbs low(under 100 a day)...Since the beginning of May..I have lost 3 inches on my waist and haven't gained or lost a pound since my cycle...Its wierd because my old diet I used to do (when I thought i knew what a diet was) I would lose fat and weight and my muscle would lose strength and kinda go flat! Diet is the key to fight the bulge!! Bro I have been fighting it all my life...even though my girl is a FAST FOOD JUNKIE..I will not break...Muscle OR BUST!! Good luck!

**gundam675** · 06-27-2003, 10:37 PM

well, i wouldnt be too concerned about body fat right now, just bulk up and mnake sure u look thick. when ur done bulking just run a prop/clen /t3 cutting cycle (i would use prop and not winny cause ur kinda big) and u should lose alot of fat. eat 12 cals per pound of bodyweight when u cut. i dont reccomend less tha t100 grams of carbs, unless u are asking to lose ur strength imho. 200 - 250 should suffice, i find that too little while cutting makes me sluggish in the gym, do cardio in morning when cutting as well.

2. yes u will add some fat while bulking, alongside soem water retention so u might look a little smoother !

3. i wouldnt reccomen cardio while bulking, becuz it only increasest he number of calories u need to build muscle.. its ultimately up to you, some ppl on this board swear by cardio while bulking, i dont do cardio cause i really dont care how i look when i bulk ( i go to like 14 - 15% bf sometimes), after when i cut, then i care ! but thats my view !

best of luck !

regards !

**Billon** · 06-28-2003, 09:39 AM

You have lost some mass.. if you look at your avatar..

**Executioner** · 06-28-2003, 05:25 PM

Should have gotten bf down before hand definitly. You are wasting you steroids .

**tdzzii72** · 06-28-2003, 06:10 PM

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**Phatsac** · 06-28-2003, 09:23 PM

Hey bro dont worry at all. I seen a some huge gains. It would have been better if your bodyfat was low so you can see the gains better but dont worry. I think your doing just fine. Keep up the hard work and start kicking some serious cardio about week 8 or so my suggestion. Then keep the cardio going hard that will show you the most when the cycle is done. Good Luck

**bobbo23** · 06-28-2003, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Nocturnal59

I was playing basketball today and a friend said "You sure your steroids are real you fat fuck"

Some great friends you have there.

**TheDfromGC** · 06-28-2003, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by bobbo23

Some great friends you have there.

my exact thoughts......

**stillsmall** · 06-28-2003, 10:11 PM

i'm all for encouragement and all, but sometimes you have got to pull the wool from their eyes... To me, this is not going well at all, because I do not see much of a difference between "before" and "1 months later"... You say you are eatting a strict diet... What kind of strict diet are we talking about? what kind of strict routine are you following? I think the term "bulking' is misunderstood here, because you are supposed to be gaining more muscle than fat on a bulking cycle.. At the rate it's going right now, that does not appear to be the case..

I suggest you do a litle bit of cardio and clean up your diet before the fat gain becomes out of control..

**gwendels** · 06-29-2003, 08:55 AM

That "friend" that told you that I would beat the living shit out of and when the first punch lands he will know first hand if the juice is real or not. Sorry, maybe a touch of roid rage today!

**gwendels** · 06-29-2003, 08:58 AM

Also, you have to kill the cardio. Make the treadmill your best friend. Dont get off untill you are drenched in sweat for a half hour. And whatever you do, dont stop eating! Otherwise you are on the right track. Its not overnight, its a lifestyle change. You need to know if you are into it or not.

**tdzzii72** · 06-29-2003, 09:36 AM

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**gundam675** · 06-29-2003, 10:52 AM

just eat and grow ! lol dont worry bout bf, jus tthink about how good ur gonan look when u cut up after juicing. i mean just run a prop/clen /t3/fina cycle after ull cake off that excess !

**tdzzii72** · 06-29-2003, 12:09 PM

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**Feli Fly** · 06-29-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Executioner

Should have gotten bf down before hand definitly. You are wasting you steroids.

Couldn't agree more. You need visible abs going into a cycle IMO. Your gains will be much more lean mass and much less fat.

If you can't/won't wait to get in shape first (get the bf% down to at least under 15% or so), you have no idea about how good nutrition works and have no buisness using AS.

That said, now you know. You have already started this cycle, so if you must, finish up and gain some muscle while "on." You also look like gyno might show up, so keep an eye out. Then, diet down naturally to low bf% and visible abs before starting another. Fawk that "cutting cycle" BS; it's laziness! You are 22yo! No reason you can't cut down with diet, lifting, and cardio. Maybe a lil ECA.

Sorry to flame a lil, but you asked... and I am just trying to call it as I see it. And yes, to answer your next question, my pics are up so you know I'm not some even fat guy who can't lift and is just sitting around typing flames.

**gwendels** · 06-29-2003, 04:07 PM

On the flip side of that, I NEVER had visible abs. I'm 6' tall and got down to 183, no abs in sight and looked like a crackhead! People were asking if I had cancer behind my back! I'm seeing good gains from a light cycle and could really care less what my abs look like right now. I do agree about "cutting cycles". Diet and cardio will get you as lean as you want to be. I dont prefer to walk around w/very low bodyfat. As long as I dont have a beergut, thats fine with me. My goal is to get tremendous up top first, then worry about a 6 pack. But thats my 2 cents......

**tdzzii72** · 06-30-2003, 07:00 AM

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**gwendels** · 06-30-2003, 09:42 AM

the avg person makes between 7-11g of testosterone a day. You are taking about 5X that amount. It just cant do nothing. I will help, but carving out the finished product is up to you. Remember too, not eating enough(protien especially) can render these compounds useless. Work your ass off, eat like a king, and grow. Thats my 2 cents.....

**Feli Fly** · 06-30-2003, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Nocturnal59

I can't believe that just because you have a little extra body fat that it will make a steroid inaffective. That just sounds like some kind of rumor....Does anyone else believe this statment that a few people here have made?

I didn't say the AS would be ineffective. So don't misquote me; read the post. I said that the cycle will be less effective and you will gain more fat than someone who was in good shape going in. The higher your bf% is going into a bulking cycle, the greater the % of weight gain will be fat. It's not some "rumor"; take look around at the member cycle results pictures. Guys who go in with pretty lean gain a lot of muscle and a lil fat. Guys like you who go in chubby or downright fat gain weight too, but less of it is LBM and more is chub.

The only way I could justify going into a cycle at over ~15%bf would be if I were a serious PL, which I'm not and there is a 99.9% chance you are not either.

While on a bulk cycle in your condition, you will gain muscle (prolly not too much on only 3000cal/day though) and more gain fat that is nescessary... You will go from fat to fat and strong, but the muscle is still buried in fat. At some point, you will still need to learn proper nutrition and get the bodyfat to down. And a "cutting cycle" won't do it. It's not the gear, bro; it's the diet.

You are making the classic mistake of trying to gain muscle and lose bodyfat, and that usually ends up in disappointment. You need a caloric overload to grow, and you need a caloric defecit to lose... pick one or the other.

**tdzzii72** · 06-30-2003, 01:12 PM

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**Feli Fly** · 06-30-2003, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nocturnal59

Wow, Thats depressing......

Yah, but it is the truth, and you should have done more research and learned that... nonetheless, your cycle has been started, so you should make the best of a bad situation:

This is your first cycle and you prolly won't gain like this again... so, up your cals to 25x bodyweight (you should be at 5000+), get 1.5g protein per lb/day, and lift regularly to gain all the muscle you can. As an endomorph, you could add a lil cardio in a couple mornings EW if you want, but not too much.

Then, in the end, you will still be chubby, but will have gained some serious muscle too. Follow the cycle with good PCT and continue to eat big to keep your gains. A few months after your last shot when PCT and everything has been over with for a lil while, then stay natural and focus intently on dieting, training, and losing the fat.

**RBD85** · 06-30-2003, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nocturnal59

Wow, Thats depressing......

Just eat really good and throw in a little bit of cardio and prove em wrong. You have 2 months left on your cycle so make the best of it. Keep track of your waist size. c-ya

**marshdiggs** · 06-30-2003, 01:36 PM

Cardio! Every Morning, On Empty Stomach (at Least Half Hour)...

**aanold** · 06-30-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by gwendels

the avg person makes between 7-11g of testosterone a day. . .

I wish. I think your confusing gram and milligram.

**gwendels** · 06-30-2003, 03:57 PM

right. MG.(could you imagine!)

**aanold** · 07-01-2003, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by gwendels

right. MG.(could you imagine!)

We'd all be the size of the Hulk.

**tdzzii72** · 08-10-2003, 04:32 PM

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**TheJuicer** · 08-10-2003, 04:45 PM

I think that you did gain a little bit bro...how much did you gain in strength? I feel as if you would have dieted down for awhile then hit the AS you would love the shit and be hooked! I would train nat. for a year and get the bf down and hit it again!! Good luck!

**tdzzii72** · 08-10-2003, 05:00 PM

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**aanold** · 08-13-2003, 05:29 PM

I definitely see improvements from your before pics. You can really see it in your back and traps. I would concentrate getting the BF down so that you can really see what you have to work with. Keep up the good work bro.