Well!! I'm new I'm new I don't know what to do!!!lol

**Macolish** · 05-31-2013, 11:49 PM

What's up peeps.. I'm new to testosterone replacement . I'm 38 and pretty thin I have been working out for years on and off I get frustrated and quit and start again. I have tried every sup I can think of to gain and build muscle never works. I recently went to the doc and had my test checked I'm at a 600 but he wants to see me at a 1200. I'm not sure if that's enough to build muscle or if I need to stack with D-Bol or just try the testosterone shots first and then go from their??
Thanks for any input..

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-01-2013, 02:48 AM

Get going with the testosterone from your doc and see how it goes. It will take around four weeks to kick in if you do injections. Don't think about upping the dose until your hormone levels have leveled out and you have your protocol adjusted.

In the mean time learn how to eat for growth since it will important whether you stay with your TRT dose or try something else in the future. Eating correctly works better than any supplement.

Keep reading stickies about TRT and diet - ask all the questions you want.

**Gaspaco** · 06-01-2013, 03:05 AM

Welcome!!

Hit the TRT section as Johnny said.

**Java Man** · 06-01-2013, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Get going with the testosterone from your doc and see how it goes. It will take around four weeks to kick in if you do injections. Don't think about upping the dose until your hormone levels have leveled out and you have your protocol adjusted.

In the mean time learn how to eat for growth since it will important whether you stay with your TRT dose or try something else in the future. Eating correctly works better than any supplement

Keep reading stickies about TRT and diet - ask all the questions you want.

This

**clarky.** · 06-01-2013, 04:14 AM

Well welcome well welcome lol

hit the hrt forum and the nutrition forum.

**Macolish** · 06-01-2013, 08:07 AM

Thanks for the input and heads up on where to start.

**clarky.** · 06-01-2013, 08:20 AM

your welcome mate the guy's over in both sections are second to none really the know there stuff.

**SexySweetheart** · 06-01-2013, 01:26 PM

**brazey** · 06-01-2013, 01:57 PM

Welcome to the community.

**Times Roman** · 06-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Macolish

What's up peeps.. I'm new to testosterone replacement . I'm 38 and pretty thin I have been working out for years on and off I get frustrated and quit and start again. I have tried every sup I can think of to gain and build muscle never works. I recently went to the doc and had my test checked I'm at a 600 but he wants to see me at a 1200. I'm not sure if that's enough to build muscle or if I need to stack with D-Bol or just try the testosterone shots first and then go from their??
Thanks for any input..

I'm a little confused. Your T levels are at 600 and your doc is suggesting you have low T?

Look, I was low 200's before TRT, and now I'm 730 after TRT.

600 is actually pretty damn good. and 1200 is definitely NOT a replacement dose.

are you sure you got all your numbers right?

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-01-2013, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I'm a little confused. Your T levels are at 600 and your doc is suggesting you have low T?

Look, I was low 200's before TRT, and now I'm 730 after TRT.

600 is actually pretty damn good. and 1200 is definitely NOT a replacement dose.

are you sure you got all your numbers right?

I noticed that too but figured it would get straightened out with the doctor. That is one of the reasons I thought it was important to read up on TRT so he could understand the basics without depending on a doctor that could have weak knowledge.

**stpete** · 06-01-2013, 03:54 PM

Welcome

**thehor** · 06-01-2013, 03:57 PM

Welcome.

**crazy mike** · 06-01-2013, 05:19 PM

Welcome, I still don't know what to do, but they try to help on here. ...crazy mike

**bdos** · 06-01-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by crazy mike

Welcome, I still don't know what to do, but they try to help on here. ...crazy mike

Youve forgotton double what we know crazy mike lol and welcome.

**ALL4ROIDS** · 06-01-2013, 06:11 PM

ya just start out give it some time to level out then if results still arent coming then consider a stack remember a clean and mean diet

**Macolish** · 06-01-2013, 10:18 PM

He didn't say it was low.. But he did say he would like to see it around 1200 is this not a good idea?? Any suggestions im wanting to pack on some mass I'm 5"8 160lbs

**tigerspawn** · 06-01-2013, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

I'm a little confused. Your T levels are at 600 and your doc is suggesting you have low T?

Look, I was low 200's before TRT, and now I'm 730 after TRT.

600 is actually pretty damn good. and 1200 is definitely NOT a replacement dose.

are you sure you got all your numbers right?

Times when the company I work for sent a group of us to a couple of their TRT clinics to review medical records ¾ of the individuals that they were treating started out with T level at mid or higher WNL. They always told their PT’s that their levels were low. That’s why we have guys at the gym on TRT that started out with a baseline of 725 and think its low. Then Dr is prescribing him 300 of test a week. Doctors at the clinics were always trying to raise their PTs level above 1000.

**Times Roman** · 06-02-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Macolish

He didn't say it was low.. But he did say he would like to see it around 1200 is this not a good idea?? Any suggestions im wanting to pack on some mass I'm 5"8 160lbs

NO!

Your body is producing significant levels of testosterone . Any testosterone you take will shut down your natural testosterone production. 1200 means an actual cycle of testosterone, at bodybuilder levels. You risk picking up a whole host of side effects in the long term.

side effects like:
increased estradiol levels
increased RBC levels
increased Hematocrit levels
increased lipid/cholesterol levels
plus your testicles WILL shrink to pre puberty size, and you risk becoming infertile unless you take precautions

what is your LONG TERM goal with increasing testosterone?

What I'm trying to say is you shouldn't increase your test levels to 1200 for anything other than in the short term, say a couple of months or so.

I suspect your doctor is clueless about the subject at hand, and instead mate, you really need to go see an endo. They specialize in this area, and won't fukc you over like your doctor is about to do.

If MY T levels were at 600, I'd leave it alone and find something else to improve how you feel.

Good luck!
---Roman

**Times Roman** · 06-02-2013, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by tigerspawn

Times when the company I work for sent a group of us to a couple of their TRT clinics to review medical records ¾ of the individuals that they were treating started out with T level at mid or higher WNL. They always told their PT’s that their levels were low. That’s why we have guys at the gym on TRT that started out with a baseline of 725 and think its low. Then Dr is prescribing him 300 of test a week. Doctors at the clinics were always trying to raise their PTs level above 1000.

but you have to stop and ask yourself WHY?

some of these guys don't make any money unless they sell you testosterone . They literally are in the business of selling testosterone. How many men you think go there and get turned away? I'm thinking it's a very low percentage. Is this really in the best interests of the patient? I'd say NO!

I'm on trt, and my t levels are at 720.

with TRT, "Less is more"

the more testosterone you take in the long term, the more of a risk of side effects you will run into.

I'm going to hold my ground and say if a man is producing T levels in the 600 range, there is absolutely NO NEED to be taking exogenous testosterone, unless it is for reasons other than anti aging and/or long term health - which is what TRT clinics should be focusing on.

**Macolish** · 06-02-2013, 12:39 PM

I'm wanting to pack on some muscle mass and then stop.

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-02-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Macolish

I'm wanting to pack on some muscle mass and then stop.

You don't want to do that with the dose a TRT doc will give you. You will need to deal with shutdown and post cycle therapy for a low dose cycle. TOTALLY not worth it.

**Macolish** · 06-02-2013, 01:05 PM

So I shouldn't do it for ten weeks then get a pecription to give the shot at home and save it up to do a cycle later??

**tigerspawn** · 06-02-2013, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Times Roman

but you have to stop and ask yourself WHY?

some of these guys don't make any money unless they sell you testosterone . They literally are in the business of selling testosterone. How many men you think go there and get turned away? I'm thinking it's a very low percentage. Is this really in the best interests of the patient? I'd say NO!

I'm on trt, and my t levels are at 720.

with TRT, "Less is more"

the more testosterone you take in the long term, the more of a risk of side effects you will run into.

I'm going to hold my ground and say if a man is producing T levels in the 600 range, there is absolutely NO NEED to be taking exogenous testosterone, unless it is for reasons other than anti aging and/or long term health - which is what TRT clinics should be focusing on.

I agree with you 100%. I don't approve of their business practices. The first day that I was going over their clinic's records I questioned the numbers and the reasoning behind the TRT. I brought my concerns up to the director of the clinic. They thanked me for pointing that out and stated that they would look into the doctor’s reasoning behind prescribing these PT's TRT. On my day off I was called into the ACNO's office. I was informed that I was being paid to make sure that records were in order and not to question doctor’s prescription.

**Java Man** · 06-02-2013, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by tigerspawn

I agree with you 100%. I don't approve of their business practices. The first day that I was going over their clinic's records I questioned the numbers and the reasoning behind the TRT. I brought my concerns up to the director of the clinic. They thanked me for pointing that out and stated that they would look into the doctor’s reasoning behind prescribing these PT's TRT. On my day off I was called into the ACNO's office. I was informed that I was being paid to make sure that records were in order and not to question doctor’s prescription.

And so it goes on... typical. It must be frustrating as hell to see all of the things you see on a daily basis.

**Times Roman** · 06-02-2013, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by tigerspawn

I agree with you 100%. I don't approve of their business practices. The first day that I was going over their clinic's records I questioned the numbers and the reasoning behind the TRT. I brought my concerns up to the director of the clinic. They thanked me for pointing that out and stated that they would look into the doctor’s reasoning behind prescribing these PT's TRT. On my day off I was called into the ACNO's office. I was informed that I was being paid to make sure that records were in order and not to question doctor’s prescription.

so we are saying EXACTLY the same thing. The problem with these clinics, as far as I can tell, is the oversight is very weak. Most of these doctors are free to do as they please.

But I agree, they should NOT be prescribing test doses to "pack on muscle".....

....totally should not be in the scope of what a real TRT clinic needs to do.

**Java Man** · 06-02-2013, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Macolish

So I shouldn't do it for ten weeks then get a pecription to give the shot at home and save it up to do a cycle later??

With natural test of 600 if it's on the scale I usually see (~400 - 1100) is enough that you should make good gains just by getting all of the other ducks in a row. I'm not on TRT but if I had a natty test of 600ng/dl I wouldn't introduce test into my system unless I was going to do a 'real' cycle with all that entails. I agree with TR and others that this doc probably either has another motive driving him or doesn't know what he's doing.

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-03-2013, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Macolish

So I shouldn't do it for ten weeks then get a pecription to give the shot at home and save it up to do a cycle later??

Are you asking if you should get a scrip for testosterone but not use it for TRT but rather save it up for a cycle? If that is what you are asking I will keep it short and simply say: you are the person that makes it harder for all of us with a health problem to get the treatment we need. What you are proposing is the same behavior as the junkies that cheat the system to get pain pills and I don't condone it.

I am not going after you personally, but I do disagree with what you are proposing. If that is NOT what you meant then I think I need clarification.

**Macolish** · 06-03-2013, 06:45 PM

That's why I'm asking for opinions of what I should do. Sorry you didn't like my method wasn't trying to screw the system just tired of not gaining. I thought my t levels where low until I called and they told me around 600 I posted my blood work on Q&A my post says (need input on TRT)