New Member Questions About Tren and Test Stack

[IDB]

I currently have 2 bottles. One being Test E and the other being tren. I am currently at about 15% body fat and looking to cut down and still have some solid gains. What should I run for dosages? Also should I mix the two in the same syringe or should I shoot different days? What should I run after for a solid PCT? And what should my macros look like?

Thanks for your help!

[clarky.]

welcome to the forum if you were to run it you would not have enough. You clearly don't have any clue about these compounds or AAS in general so do some reading here learn about it and wait till your old enough.

This is not what you want to here i know but if you stick around and read learn you will see this and the people your age that have fvcked them self up.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

NUTRITION RESOURCE FORUM

[jdc91gt]

Welcome aboard.

[brazey]

Welcome to the community.

[diesel101]

Welcome

[IDB]

thanks guys!

[IDB]

Its not that i have no idea what im doing, I am just asking around to see what everyone would suggest sense there are so many different roads to take. I know what my macros and dosages should be around. Thats why I am posting, asking questions.. I am trying to learn more and more. You can never know enough, but with all the blogs I read.. its people like you that just tell people they don't know what they're talking about and to stick to whey protein and their daily vitamins. If you'd like suggest other compounds and information that would be greatly appreciated!

[derekkpapa1]

Welcome

[Lovemiami]

I'm running the same cycle, I used two different syringes and I do it times per week every 4 days , I run a higher dose of tren because it works better for me when it comes to gain solid mass.
for the PCT I would refer to the cycles information in this website at the bottom you will see how is done.
Just something I read recently some users think you should run HCG for better recovery during the cycle and in the PCT. check this out

Eric Potratz will show you in his article HCG - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Use After Anabolic Steroid Cycles for Bodybuilding the most effective way to recover from an anabolic steroid cycle. This is especially the case for those that have had a lack of success following popular advice. In his article, Eric will address the misunderstanding and misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and will show you the most efficient way to use hCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.

Post Cycle Therapy or PCT for short is a must after you have finished a steroid cycle. If you want to keep the strength and muscle gains you worked so hard for when you were on the juice, you need to help return your own body's hormonal levels back to normal - or all you hard work will be wasted. Many great PCT protocols have been outlined over the years, and many individuals have had success following them. Nevertheless, what works can always work better. Enjoy - HCG - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Use After Anabolic Steroid Cycles for Bodybuilding
mis spelled
When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, which causes rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production. (2-6,19) However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle, during PCT. Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.

irstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. (21,22) A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity. This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity. If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.
HCG

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids. (8) In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. (7) Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production. 20)

Buy hCG

These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. (11) For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. (11) Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes (12,13,19 ) -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. (2) It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)

Recap:

For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.

In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

[Juced_porkchop]

I currently have 2 bottles. One being Test E and the other being tren. I am currently at about 15% body fat and looking to cut down and still have some solid gains. What should I run for dosages? Also should I mix the two in the same syringe or should I shoot different days? What should I run after for a solid PCT? And what should my macros look like?

Thanks for your help!

I think you are far from being ready to do any cycle.

*no tren on first or even for a few cycles, it can come with the worst sides

*one bottle ( assuming its the stnd 10ml) is NOT enought for anything. you need a min of 3 (30ml) to run a 12-14wk cycle at 2ml ( 400-500mg ew)

*wait till your 24+, you are not finished developing till this time, and using anysteroid can mess that up, and that is FOR LIFE.. wait..