civilian deaths

[kis55]

Damn, I thought this article was very illuminating.

The predictable condemners


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 22, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Hizbullah and Hamas provocations against Israel once again demonstrate how terrorists exploit human rights and the media in their attacks on democracies.

By hiding behind their own civilians the Islamic radicals issue a challenge to democracies: Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians.

This challenge presents democracies such as Israel with a lose-lose option, and the terrorists with a win-win option.

There is one variable that could change this dynamic and present democracies with a viable option that could make terrorism less attractive as a tactic: The international community, the anti-Israel segment of the media and the so called "human rights" organizations could stop falling for this terrorist gambit and acknowledge that they are being used to promote the terrorist agenda.

Whenever a democracy is presented with the lose-lose option and chooses to defend its citizens by going after the terrorists who are hiding among civilians, this trio of predictable condemners can be counted on by the terrorists to accuse the democracy of "overreaction," "disproportionality" and "violations of human rights."

In doing so they play right into the hands of the terrorists, causing more terrorism and more civilian casualties on both sides.
If instead this trio could, for once, be counted on to blame the terrorists for the civilian deaths on both sides, this tactic would no longer be a win-win situation for the terrorists.

IT SHOULD BE obvious by now that Hizbullah and Hamas actually want the Israeli military to kill as many Lebanese and Palestinian civilians as possible. That is why they store their rockets underneath the beds of civilians; why they launch their missiles from crowded civilian neighborhoods and hide among civilians. They are seeking to induce Israel to defend its civilians by going after them among their civilian "shields." They know that every civilian they induce Israel to kill hurts Israel in the media and the international and human rights communities.

They regard these human shields as shahids - martyrs - even if they did not volunteer for this lethal job. Under the law, criminals who use human shields are responsible for the deaths of the shields, even if the bullet that kills them came from the gun of a policeman.

Israel has every self-interest in minimizing civilian casualties, whereas the terrorists have every self-interest in maximizing them - on both sides. Israel should not be condemned for doing what every democracy would and should do: taking every reasonable military step to stop the terrorists from killing their innocent civilians.

NOW THAT some of those who are launching rockets at Israeli cities have announced they have new surprises in store for Israel that may include chemical and biological weapons, the stakes have gotten even higher.

What would Israeli critics regard as "proportioned" to a chemical or biological attack? What would they say if Israel tried to preempt such an attack and, in the process, killed some civilians? Must a democracy absorb a first strike from a weapon of mass destruction before it fights back? Would any other democracy be expected to do that?

The world must come to recognize the cynical way in which terrorists exploit civilian casualties. They launch anti-personnel rockets designed to maximize enemy civilian casualties, then they cry "human rights" when their own civilians - behind whom they are deliberately hiding - are killed by the democracies in the process of trying to prevent further acts of terrorism.

The very idea that terrorists who use women and children as suicide bombers against other women and children shed crocodile tears over the deaths of civilians they deliberately put in harm's way gives new meaning to the word "hypocrisy." We all know that hypocrisy is a tactic of the terrorists, but it is shocking that others fall for it and become complicit with the terrorists.

Let the blame fall where it belongs: on the terrorists who deliberately seek to kill enemy civilians and give their democratic enemies little choice but to kill some civilians behind whom the terrorists are hiding.

Those who condemn Israel for killing civilians - who are used as human shields and swords for the terrorists - actually cause more civilian deaths and make it harder for Israel to withdraw from the West Bank.

HOW THE WORLD reacts to Israel's current military efforts to protect its citizens will have a considerable impact on future Israeli steps toward peace. Prior to the recent kidnappings and rocket attacks the Israeli government had announced its intention to engage in further withdrawals from large portions of the West Bank.

But how can Israel be expected to move forward with any plan for withdrawal if all it can expect in return is more terrorism - what the terrorists regard as "land for rocket launchings" - and more condemnation when it seeks to protect its civilians?

The writer is a Professor of Law at Harvard and the author of Preemption: A Knife that Cuts Both Ways.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...icle%2FPrinter

[zodiac666]

very good article, agree 100%

[Teabagger]

A common sense article, cuts pretty quickly to the tactic that is successfully used by terrorists. Of course it doesn't matter what action Israel takes, except surrender, it is condemmed about the world. If individual terrorists are targeted and killed, without civilian casualities, it is condemmed as "assasination". If Israel builds a wall on its border for security, it is condemmed as "racist" and aggressive against the Pals. So in a nutshell, whatever Israel does in defense of itself will be condemmed by most of the world as aggressive, provacative, de-stabilizing, or inhumane. So in turn, Israel learned many years ago it could not rely on any world body..ie: UN, to broker a peace deal. They learned to turn a deaf ear to the world bodies and place their trust for their safety, security, and very existence in their own ability and strategy.

[mcpeepants]

'Civilian Casualty'? It Depends
Those who support terrorists are not entirely innocent.
By Alan Dershowitz, ALAN DERSHOWITZ is a professor of law at Harvard. He is the author, most recently, of "Preemption: A Knife that Cuts Both Ways."
July 22, 2006


THE NEWS IS filled these days with reports of civilian casualties, comparative civilian body counts and criticism of Israel, along with Hezbollah, for causing the deaths, injuries and "collective punishment" of civilians. But just who is a "civilian" in the age of terrorism, when militants don't wear uniforms, don't belong to regular armies and easily blend into civilian populations?

We need a new vocabulary to reflect the realities of modern warfare. A new phrase should be introduced into the reporting and analysis of current events in the Middle East: "the continuum of civilianality." Though cumbersome, this concept aptly captures the reality and nuance of warfare today and provides a more fair way to describe those who are killed, wounded and punished.

ADVERTISEMENTThere is a vast difference — both moral and legal — between a 2-year-old who is killed by an enemy rocket and a 30-year-old civilian who has allowed his house to be used to store Katyusha rockets. Both are technically civilians, but the former is far more innocent than the latter. There is also a difference between a civilian who merely favors or even votes for a terrorist group and one who provides financial or other material support for terrorism.

Finally, there is a difference between civilians who are held hostage against their will by terrorists who use them as involuntary human shields, and civilians who voluntarily place themselves in harm's way in order to protect terrorists from enemy fire.

These differences and others are conflated within the increasingly meaningless word "civilian" — a word that carried great significance when uniformed armies fought other uniformed armies on battlefields far from civilian population centers. Today this same word equates the truly innocent with guilty accessories to terrorism.

The domestic law of crime, in virtually every nation, reflects this continuum of culpability. For example, in the infamous Fall River rape case (fictionalized in the film "The Accused"), there were several categories of morally and legally complicit individuals: those who actually raped the woman; those who held her down; those who blocked her escape route; those who cheered and encouraged the rapists; and those who could have called the police but did not.

No rational person would suggest that any of these people were entirely free of moral guilt, although reasonable people might disagree about the legal guilt of those in the last two categories. Their accountability for rape is surely a matter of degree, as is the accountability for terrorism of those who work with the terrorists.

It will, of course, be difficult for international law — and for the media — to draw the lines of subtle distinction routinely drawn by domestic criminal law. This is because domestic law operates on a retail basis — one person and one case at a time. International law and media reporting about terrorism tend to operate on more of a wholesale basis — with body counts, civilian neighborhoods and claims of collective punishment.

But the recognition that "civilianality" is often a matter of degree, rather than a bright line, should still inform the assessment of casualty figures in wars involving terrorists, paramilitary groups and others who fight without uniforms — or help those who fight without uniforms.

Turning specifically to the current fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Hamas, the line between Israeli soldiers and civilians is relatively clear. Hezbollah missiles and Hamas rockets target and hit Israeli restaurants, apartment buildings and schools. They are loaded with anti-personnel ball-bearings designed specifically to maximize civilian casualties.

Hezbollah and Hamas militants, on the other hand, are difficult to distinguish from those "civilians" who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks.

The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit. Some — those who cannot leave on their own — should be counted among the innocent victims.

If the media were to adopt this "continuum," it would be informative to learn how many of the "civilian casualties" fall closer to the line of complicity and how many fall closer to the line of innocence.

Every civilian death is a tragedy, but some are more tragic than others.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...nion-rightrail

[mcpeepants]

based on his response in the two articles Alan Dershowitz is trying to justify the killing of lebanese civilians. His spends the time implying the Lebanese civilians aren't quite civilians and that there deaths are not as important as those of Israeli citizens.

[singern]

based on his response in the two articles Alan Dershowitz is trying to justify the killing of lebanese civilians. His spends the time implying the Lebanese civilians aren't quite civilians and that there deaths are not as important as those of Israeli citizens.

Not at all, he is however stating that The terrorists use, and indeed require civilian deaths to fan the flame of propaganda, and criminal duplicity. The complete hypocrisy of hiding weapons and terrorists in mosques, hospitals, schools, and civilian neighborhoods, then faking a few crocodile tears when they are engaged.

This is all because they have no legal or moral legitimacy, and cannot justify the enthusiastic hatred, and zealot like actions.

Yes Israel does hold the moral and legal high ground here, there is no question.

[mcpeepants]

Not at all, he is however stating that The terrorists use, and indeed require civilian deaths to fan the flame of propaganda, and criminal duplicity. The complete hypocrisy of hiding weapons and terrorists in mosques, hospitals, schools, and civilian neighborhoods, then faking a few crocodile tears when they are engaged.

This is all because they have no legal or moral legitimacy, and cannot justify the enthusiastic hatred, and zealot like actions.

Yes Israel does hold the moral and legal high ground here, there is no question.

I don't see the moral high ground in bombing civilians and it's technically a war crime but this never gets enforced. I know that's what he is saying in the first article but in the second he wants to redefine a civillians. It's easier to blow someone up if you don't think much of them and probably makes the author sleep better at night.

[singern]

I don't see the moral high ground in bombing civilians and it's technically a war crime but this never gets enforced. I know that's what he is saying in the first article but in the second he wants to redefine a civillians. It's easier to blow someone up if you don't think much of them and probably makes the author sleep better at night.

The moral high ground=
Hezbola is purposefully, intentionally targeting civilians. hence the term TERRORIST.

Israel on the other hand is targeting Hezbola related infrastructure which hides in residential areas, and of course its fighters in South Lebanon. I challenge you to show any other army in the history of the war that instructs civilians to leave, and seek shelter because of an impending attack. There are around 300 civilian deaths in Lebanon, and I greave for all of them, however if Israel were targeting civilians that number would be more like 350000 deaths.

[mcpeepants]

The moral high ground=
Hezbola is purposefully, intentionally targeting civilians. hence the term TERRORIST.

Israel on the other hand is targeting Hezbola related infrastructure which hides in residential areas, and of course its fighters in South Lebanon. I challenge you to show any other army in the history of the war that instructs civilians to leave, and seek shelter because of an impending attack. There are around 300 civilian deaths in Lebanon, and I greave for all of them, however if Israel were targeting civilians that number would be more like 350000 deaths.

Israel has blown up the airport, residential areas,roads, cars, UN post, etc that has nothing to do with Hezbollah. This kind of action appears to be trying to made conditions so bad for the Lebanese so bad that they turn against Hezbollah. This is also called collective punishment which is a war crime. They told the people to leave after bombing the roads they needed to escape. I'll look for other armies done that and respond later. That's an 350000 arbitrary number your putting out and you don't need high numbers to show that your targeting civilians.

[singern]

Israel has blown up the airport, residential areas,roads, cars, UN post, etc that has nothing to do with Hezbollah. .

You forget that this is a war, started by a terrorist army, and every one of your examples has a strategic military value.
Airports, (of which only runways have been hit, not one airplane or tower has been damaged) and bridges serve to rearm the enemy, and move the kidnapped Israeli's. Those residential areas are the prime real-estate of Hezbola leadership, and command centers. and as we are seeing, it serves there propaganda purposes well.
Don't you think the death toll would have been one hundred fold if Israel indeed was targeting civilians?

[tiger909]

You forget that this is a war, started by a terrorist army, and every one of your examples has a strategic military value.
Air

israel has reincarnated the highway of death, whats that strategic value

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_death

[singern]

israel has reincarnated the highway of death, whats that strategic value

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_death

Sorry I don't get your point, either your saying Israel is somehow fighting Kuwait and Iraq, or you are making reference to something going on in Lebanon. If it is the later I don't see any connection or comparison.
Please clarify your post.

[Logan13]

based on his response in the two articles Alan Dershowitz is trying to justify the killing of lebanese civilians. His spends the time implying the Lebanese civilians aren't quite civilians and that there deaths are not as important as those of Israeli citizens.

Israel dropped leaflets warning citizens of the coming bombing campaign, I do not recall hezbollah doing that for Israel, do you? Israel has been bombing hezbollah strongholds, anyone that did not leave must be considered a hezbollah member or affiliate. It isn't as though the hezbollah fighters are a different race or stand out in any other way from Lebanese citizens.

[tiger909]

Sorry I don't get your point, either your saying Israel is somehow fighting Kuwait and Iraq, or you are making reference to something going on in Lebanon. If it is the later I don't see any connection or comparison.
Please clarify your post.

israel has targetted dozens maybe hundreds of cars attempting to leave the area on the pretext that they were hez retreating, maiming hundreds of children

[tiger909]

Israel dropped leaflets warning citizens of the coming bombing campaign, I do not recall hezbollah doing that for Israel, do you? Israel has been bombing hezbollah strongholds, anyone that did not leave must be considered a hezbollah member or affiliate. It isn't as though the hezbollah fighters are a different race or stand out in any other way from Lebanese citizens.

except for the fact that leaving the area requires a wealth beyond that which is available to many lebanese

[Teabagger]

except for the fact that leaving the area requires a wealth beyond that which is available to many lebanese

Bull. Their legs not work or what.

[mcpeepants]

You forget that this is a war, started by a terrorist army, and every one of your examples has a strategic military value.
Airports, (of which only runways have been hit, not one airplane or tower has been damaged) and bridges serve to rearm the enemy, and move the kidnapped Israeli's. Those residential areas are the prime real-estate of Hezbola leadership, and command centers. and as we are seeing, it serves there propaganda purposes well.
Don't you think the death toll would have been one hundred fold if Israel indeed was targeting civilians?

Airport was hit and is unable to be used. This made it hard for foreign nationals to flee the countries. The major roads were bombed made travel and escape difficult if not impossible for some. Bombing these structures harms regulars lebanese citizens and is probably an attempt to get them to reject Hezbollah(which I don't see happening). I seriously doubt bridges are these roads and bridges are crucial to Hezbollahs operations. I definitely has reduced bombing attacks in Israel. I can see innocent civilians have been targeted and killed on both sides. You don't need high numbers to be targeting civilians.

[mcpeepants]

Israel dropped leaflets warning citizens of the coming bombing campaign, I do not recall hezbollah doing that for Israel, do you? Israel has been bombing hezbollah strongholds, anyone that did not leave must be considered a hezbollah member or affiliate. It isn't as though the hezbollah fighters are a different race or stand out in any other way from Lebanese citizens.

Not being able to leave because the roads have been bombed or because your too injured, sick, old, scared, poor, or just don't does not make you a terrorists. Those leaflets were dropped after the major roads were bombed. How would you expect them leave? And people have been killed in cars as they tried to flee up north. You also shouldn't be bombing something if you don't no what it is.

[singern]

I seriously doubt bridges are these roads and bridges are crucial to Hezbollahs operations. .

Then why is Nasrala in Syria? He is trying to rearm his fighters which are fast running out of ammo, and supplies. It seems taking out bridges, airport, and roads to Damascus has indeed been a strategic blow to Hezbola. As for the Lebanese civilians, don't get me wrong I don't take any joy in there suffering. But militarily Israel has been right on target. And as far as I can see IDF has gone out of there way to avoid civilian casualties.

[Logan13]

except for the fact that leaving the area requires a wealth beyond that which is available to many lebanese

All it takes are legs and feet.

[Logan13]

Not being able to leave because the roads have been bombed or because your too injured, sick, old, scared, poor, or just don't does not make you a terrorists. Those leaflets were dropped after the major roads were bombed. How would you expect them leave? And people have been killed in cars as they tried to flee up north. You also shouldn't be bombing something if you don't no what it is.

Hezbollah has a history of using neutrals and/or civilians as shields. As for the roads being bombed, walk out. Or, you could add to public scrutiny of hezbollah for using these people as shields in the first place.

[spywizard]

Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians.

actually military doctrine allows for the loss of innocent civilians.. so i don't see the hipacracy in killiing them..

[mcpeepants]

Then why is Nasrala in Syria? He is trying to rearm his fighters which are fast running out of ammo, and supplies. It seems taking out bridges, airport, and roads to Damascus has indeed been a strategic blow to Hezbola. As for the Lebanese civilians, don't get me wrong I don't take any joy in there suffering. But militarily Israel has been right on target. And as far as I can see IDF has gone out of there way to avoid civilian casualties.

He probably their to get more arms and what not. No disagreement there. But blowing out roads may be an incovience for Hezbollah but I don't think it will prevent them from rearming. It sure made it hard for civilians to flee though. If it was that easy to disarm guerrillas, insurgents, and terrorist, Iraq would have been a piece of cake. There been hitting civilian homes, cars, etc so I don't think their doing a good job at avoiding killing civilians.

[mcpeepants]

Hezbollah has a history of using neutrals and/or civilians as shields. As for the roads being bombed, walk out. Or, you could add to public scrutiny of hezbollah for using these people as shields in the first place.

Walking out isn't easy if your injured, sick, too old or young, poor, or to scared. Don't forget Lebanon temperatures our in the mid 80s or so. Strenuous walking in this heat could lead to dehydration, heat exhaustion, heat strokes, or maybe death. Plus they risk being bombed as they flee.

[Second Coming]

Gifts recieved thank you.

[clomid222]

Typical Muslim rhetoric.

Here is their process:

(1) Attack someone. (IE: Hezbollah hitting Israel with rockets or kidnapping soldiers).
(2) Make terrorist demands and don't settle for anything.
(3) When the retaliation occurs, brace yourself.
(4) When the retaliation gets too bad find a really devastating photo and display it everywhere. This is an isolated incident, but pretend like it's happening everywhere.
(5) Throw your arms in the air and claim victim! Even though YOU started the conflict.


These Arab idiots need to learn not to attack people who are stronger, smarter, and more sophisticated then they are because they will suffer the most in the long run. Islam will never rules the world because it's ideals are too simpleminded and primative.

[zodiac666]

Typical Muslim rhetoric.

Here is their process:

(1) Attack someone. (IE: Hezbollah hitting Israel with rockets or kidnapping soldiers).
(2) Make terrorist demands and don't settle for anything.
(3) When the retaliation occurs, brace yourself.
(4) When the retaliation gets too bad find a really devastating photo and display it everywhere. This is an isolated incident, but pretend like it's happening everywhere.
(5) Throw your arms in the air and claim victim! Even though YOU started the conflict.


These Arab idiots need to learn not to attack people who are stronger, smarter, and more sophisticated then they are because they will suffer the most in the long run. Islam will never rules the world because it's ideals are too simpleminded and primative.

is hizbollah imbread or just stupid naturally?

[Rider]

Not at all, he is however stating that The terrorists use, and indeed require civilian deaths to fan the flame of propaganda, and criminal duplicity. The complete hypocrisy of hiding weapons and terrorists in mosques, hospitals, schools, and civilian neighborhoods, then faking a few crocodile tears when they are engaged.

This is all because they have no legal or moral legitimacy, and cannot justify the enthusiastic hatred, and zealot like actions.

Yes Israel does hold the moral and legal high ground here, there is no question.

Who exactly are the terrorists? why Israel holds the moral? These ****ers Arabs kidnapped 2 (!!) Jews and Israel threw haundreds of bombs to Lebanon!!! is it fair I wonder?
Israel been gifted with a State in a place where Arabs were living back in the 50s don't forget that

PS I don't see why an Israeli dead worths 20 Arabs dead!

[singern]

Who exactly are the terrorists? why Israel holds the moral? These ****ers Arabs kidnapped 2 (!!) Jews and Israel threw haundreds of bombs to Lebanon!!! is it fair I wonder?
Israel been gifted with a State in a place where Arabs were living back in the 50s don't forget that

PS I don't see why an Israeli dead worths 20 Arabs dead!

You seem to skip over some important details. For example :
Hezbola crossed international border
Killed 8 solders
Kidnapped 2 solders
Fired several thousand rockets at Israeli civilians.

I see allot of folks complaining, marching, chanting death slogans because of Israeli damage on Lebanon, but its funny I don't see a single person in the Arab world complaining about Hezbola deliberately, intentionally aiming at Israeli civilians, with thousands of rocket strikes. Where is the condemnation? Where is the outrage?


IMO enough is enough, there is only so much a nation can take before things erupt as we are seeing now. Hezbola must be eliminated, and the Lebanese army must be deployed on the border.

[judge_dread]

[judge_dread]

hmm the debate goes on...

[Rider]

You seem to skip over some important details. For example :
Hezbola crossed international border
Killed 8 solders
Kidnapped 2 solders
Fired several thousand rockets at Israeli civilians.

I see allot of folks complaining, marching, chanting death slogans because of Israeli damage on Lebanon, but its funny I don't see a single person in the Arab world complaining about Hezbola deliberately, intentionally aiming at Israeli civilians, with thousands of rocket strikes. Where is the condemnation? Where is the outrage?


IMO enough is enough, there is only so much a nation can take before things erupt as we are seeing now. Hezbola must be eliminated, and the Lebanese army must be deployed on the border.

QUOTE=judge_dread]I assume you are an Israeli or an ally at least...pls learn some history man and remember the way Israel became a state! someone on an other thread told me I got issues on Israelis u know something I consider Israelis as criminals and terrorists especially after what they have done all these years....If US wasn't there we would see were Israel would be now![/QUOTE]

[Logan13]

QUOTE=judge_dread]I assume you are an Israeli or an ally at least...pls learn some history man and remember the way Israel became a state! someone on an other thread told me I got issues on Israelis u know something I consider Israelis as criminals and terrorists especially after what they have done all these years....If US wasn't there we would see were Israel would be now!

[/QUOTE]

And if the US and Israel were true war mongers, the Middle East would be a frickin' parking lot today. You fuk with the bull, you get the horns.

[Rider]

You 've got to be kidding right?! Middle East IS a parking lot!! US and Israel are seeking peace lol yea right! we all saw the kind of peace and democracy US really means..Iraq, Latin America etc...
I wonder some of you guys in the States how come and don't know shit about history

[Teabagger]

Well Rider, educate us dumbasses in the US, K?

[Logan13]

You 've got to be kidding right?! Middle East IS a parking lot!! US and Israel are seeking peace lol yea right! we all saw the kind of peace and democracy US really means..Iraq, Latin America etc...
I wonder some of you guys in the States how come and don't know shit about history

There was not peace in the Middle East even before Israel and the US, now that's some history that you should read up on. Make no mistake about it, if the US wanted to take these countries' oil, we would have done it, hell we did not even ask the Iraqi leadership to help off-set the bill with oil reserves. The middle eastern leadership simply gets all of their citizens mind off the fact they live in squaller while the leaders are rich by blaming the everyday citizens problems on the US and Israel. Nevermind that the leadership of these countries is doing nothing to make live better for its citizens, they just point the finger West in order to get the focus off of their own inadequacies. So who did they blame in the past for their lagging economies and way of life?

[singern]

Logan you couldnt be more correct, but let me add to that.

There are on average 60 to 100 Muslim on Muslim murders/bombings in Iraq every day,
There are on average 200 Muslim on Muslim murders/bombings in Northern Africa every day.
There are Islamic terror bombings all over the world in which hundreds of innocent people are intentionally killed, and maimed.

Yet where are the marches, Why are there no masses gathered in the streets, where are the shouts of death to this or that. Where is the condemnation, where is the outrage in the Muslim world?

But Israel mistakenly and tragically kills 28 innocent people in Lebanon. Or an American ties up some terrorist prisoners in a jail in Iraq and takes a picture, The entire Arab world explodes with outrage and unimaginable violence.

[Mel Gibson]

Logan you couldnt be more correct, but let me add to that.

There are on average 60 to 100 Muslim on Muslim murders/bombings in Iraq every day,
There are on average 200 Muslim on Muslim murders/bombings in Northern Africa every day.
There are Islamic terror bombings all over the world in which hundreds of innocent people are intentionally killed, and maimed.

Yet where are the marches, Why are there no masses gathered in the streets, where are the shouts of death to this or that. Where is the condemnation, where is the outrage in the Muslim world?

But Israel mistakenly and tragically kills 28 innocent people in Lebanon. Or an American ties up some terrorist prisoners in a jail in Iraq and takes a picture, The entire Arab world explodes with outrage and unimaginable violence.

Typical Zionist response, because they kill each other, we can kill them.

Israel has killed more than 600 innocent people in Lebanon, its a modern day massacre.

The new Nazis are the Israelies.

[Mel Gibson]

And if the US and Israel were true war mongers, the Middle East would be a frickin' parking lot today. You fuk with the bull, you get the horns.

Yes, horns is right.

The US is done in Iraq, the horror has just started trust me on this.

Afghanistan is starting to pick up momentum, because attention and troops are being diverted elsewhere.

In Lebanon Israel has not achieved one goal it set out to accomplish. Not one.

So like every other peoples resistance in the world, with time, the "powers" or "bulls" will be defeated and cry back, and retreat home.

People forget, history is the best predictor of the future.

[Teabagger]

Its not over till its over....and it's not close to being over. Enjoy the delusions as long as possible...