Haggard Accuser fails lie detector

[Logan13]

Haggard Accuser fails lie detector
Colorado Springs - As a church-appointed board met privately Friday to investigate the Rev. Ted Haggard, the embattled evangelical leader admitted to reporters that he bought methamphetamine from a male prostitute but denied ever using the drug or having sex with him.

A church official said Saturday Haggard has left Colorado Springs to escape the media glare and spend time with his family.

Haggard said he had called Michael Forest Jones, a gay bodybuilder who claims he had a three-year, sex-for-pay arrangement with Haggard, but Haggard said he had called to buy drugs.

"I did call him," Haggard told 9News Friday as he drove away from his Colorado Springs house. "I called him to buy some meth, but I threw it away.

I was buying it for me, but I never used it," he said.

He also denied having sex with Jones. He said he had received a referral at a hotel for a massage with Jones, but he did not say which hotel.

Haggard also commented on a polygraph test administrator's finding that Jones' answers to questions about sex with Haggard had been "deceptive" during a lie-detector test Friday.

"We're so grateful that he failed a polygraph test this morning, my accuser did," Haggard told 9News. Jones was not asked about drugs during the test.

In an interview with The Denver Post, Jones responded that Haggard should come clean, admit the affair and move on with his life.

"This is ridiculous," Jones said. "Yesterday, he didn't even know me. Today, he admits buying meth but never using it. Who's more credible?"

On Friday, the executive committee of the National Association of Evangelicals met by teleconference and unanimously accepted Haggard's resignation as president of the organization.

Haggard met for several hours Thursday and then again Friday with New Life Church's board of overseers, a panel of Haggard's peers from other congregations who

have the authority to discipline the senior pastor, remove him from his post or restore him to ministry, said Rob Brendle, an associate pastor at the church.
On Saturday, the board was to provide an update to the church's senior staff, which throughout the past 48 hours had not been privy to some of Haggard's admissions until learning of them from the media.

In fact, New Life's administrative pastor, Lance Coles, first heard Haggard's comments about meth on the Internet.

Coles said that he believed Haggard was being truthful in the interview and that if Haggard had used meth, he surely would have exhibited the signs.

"I know who he is at its core," Coles said. "I think in his zeal to love and serve people, he committed himself to so many noble causes that it brought him to a point of weakness that we're seeing exposed."

The oversight group is composed of three Colorado pastors and is led by a Louisiana pastor, Larry Stockstill. He is from the congregation where Haggard worked as a youth pastor more than two decades ago - before, Haggard has explained, he had a vision while camping and fasting on Pikes Peak that caused him to start New Life Church in his basement.

Brendle said the board will "primarily work with Ted," and he didn't know whether Jones would be contacted.

"As Christians, we are never surprised at sin," Brendle said. "Ted has been a mentor and a good friend. I am committed to standing by him and his family. It is a sad time, but I am committed to serving New Life Church and our community. I believe with all my heart our best days are ahead.

"We believe New Life Church is not a man or a building," Brendle said. "It's a community of people who together have a strong and time-tested relationship that will endure and grow."

A message from Haggard - most likely via video - is expected to be aired at services Sunday at New Life Church's $18 million, 7,500-seat sanctuary, the largest worship space in Colorado. Haggard, his wife and five children are expected to leave town this weekend so Haggard can work on family issues, Brendle said.

Services are expected to be led Sunday by interim senior pastor Ross Parsley, a veteran of the New Life leadership team, and also include an address from Stockstill.

When asked his reaction to Haggard's claim that he threw the meth away, Jones scoffed, "It's just like Clinton, who said he didn't inhale."

Jones said Haggard didn't use meth the first year of their meetings but started taking it about two years ago. He said Haggard snorted the meth every time they had sex.

After Jones made the alleged affair public, skeptics began to doubt the story, particularly after Haggard told a television news crew that night that he never had sex with Jones and had always remained faithful to his wife, Gayle.

So Jones on Friday submitted to a lie-detector test. On Peter Boyles' talk show on KHOW radio, test administrator John Kresnik characterized Jones' answers about sex as "deceptive." Jones wasn't asked about drugs.

Kresnik said he discounted the test results because of Jones' stress and lack of eating or sleeping. Jones said he doubted he will retake the test.

"I've made my point," Jones said. "He's the one who has discredited himself. He should admit it and move on."

Jones said he learned how influential and prominent Haggard was when he saw him on the History Channel.

"I got really angry about it," he said. "I owed it to the gay community because of the hypocrisy we put up with from the religious right. He's up there preaching to millions that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry while he's running around behind his wife's back having sex with a gay man."

Also on Friday, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson released a statement about the accusations, and Haggard's admissions.

"All of us at Focus on the Family are heartsick over the allegation, not yet confirmed, that Ted has had a private life with a homosexual for several years. We will await the outcome of this story, but the possibility that an illicit relationship has occurred is alarming to us and to millions of others," the statement read.

It went on to say: "Ted has been my close friend and colleague for many years. ... He will continue to be my friend even if the worst allegations prove accurate. Nevertheless sexual sin, whether heterosexual or homosexual, has serious consequences and we are extremely concerned for Ted, his family and his church."

In a news briefing Friday, White House spokesman Tony Fratto confirmed that Haggard had been to the White House several times but said the allegations shouldn't affect how other evangelicals will vote in Tuesday's election.

[Joey2ness]

• Evangelist admits he called male escort to buy drugs and get a massage

Unclear polygraph test
Jones told CNN that the part of the test he failed was on the question of whether he and Haggard had sex. "I don't understand why I did fail the part about when they asked me if I had sex with Ted Haggard," he said.

The accuser lied about having sex with Pastor Ted Haggard.
Sex could mean several things oral, intercourse but not hand job

[Tock]

Well, polygraphs aren't 100% accurate. Also keep in mind that the polygraph examiner said that the results could have been skewed because the guy was suffering from a migrane headache at the time, and had had only 2 hours of sleep.


Regardless, the church did some investigating, and they evidently are convinced that the preacher is guilty of something - read on . . .
----------------------------------------------------------


Evangelical dismissed amid sex scandal

By KIM NGUYEN, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061105/...ex_allegations



COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - The Rev. Ted Haggard was dismissed Saturday as leader of the megachurch he founded after a board determined the influential evangelist had committed "sexually immoral conduct," the church said Saturday.

Haggard had resigned two days earlier as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, where he held sway in Washington and condemned homosexuality, after a Denver man named Mike Jones claimed to have had drug-fueled trysts with him. He also had placed himself on administrative leave from the New Life Church, but its Overseer Board took the stronger action Saturday.

"Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct," the independent board said in a statement.

Haggard was "informed of this decision," the statement said, and he "agreed as well that he should be dismissed."

Haggard, 50, on Friday acknowledged paying Jones for a massage and for methamphetamine, but said he did not have sex with him and did not take the drug.

The statement from the 14,000-member church said the investigation would continue, to determine the extent of the misconduct. The Rev. Mike Ware of Victory Church in Westminster, a member of the board, declined to characterize what investigators found.

Haggard did not answer his home or mobile phones Saturday, and neither was accepting messages.

Jones said the news of Haggard's dismissal made him sad.

"I feel really bad for his wife and family and his congregation. I know it's a sad day for them, too," Jones said. "I feel bad when someone has so many attachments to others. It affects everyone. I'm certainly not cheering or jumping up and down over what's happened.

"I just hope the family has peace and can come to terms with things. I hope they can continue with a happy life."

The Rev. Ross Parsley will lead the church until a permanent replacement for Haggard is chosen by the end of the year, the statement said. A letter explaining Haggard's removal and an apology from him will be read at Sunday services.

Haggard's situation is a disappointment to Christian conservatives, whom President Bush and other Republicans are courting heavily in the run-up to Tuesday's election.

Many were already disheartened with the president and the Republican-controlled Congress over their failure to deliver big gains on social issues even before the congressional page scandal involving former Rep. Mark Foley.

Haggard, who had been president of the evangelical association since 2003, has participated in conference calls with White House staffers and lobbied Congress last year on Supreme Court nominees.

Haggard visited the White House once or twice, Deputy Press Secretary Tony Fratto said Friday.

Richard Cizik, the evangelical association's vice president for governmental affairs, called Haggard's ouster "heartbreaking and unfortunate."

"He is a man who has done a lot of good and who hopefully after a period of repentance and counsel and spiritual restoration will have a future ministry at some point," Cizik said.

The board's decision cuts Haggard off from the massive church he founded in the mid-1980s. He held New Life's first services in the unfinished basement of his Colorado Springs home.

Jones, who said he is gay, said he was upset when he discovered who Haggard was and found out that the New Life Church had publicly opposed same-sex marriage — a key issue in Colorado, with a pair of issues on Tuesday's ballot.

"It made me angry that here's someone preaching about gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex," Jones said.

Jones also said Haggard snorted methamphetamine before their sexual encounters to heighten his experience but has denied selling drugs. He agreed to take a lie-detector test Friday; the administrator of the test said the answers about his sex allegations "indicated deception."

But Jones said Saturday: "Obviously they determined there was sexual indiscretions, so I think that vindicates my claim."

Haggard told reporters he bought meth but never used it; he said he received a massage from Jones after being referred to him by a Denver hotel. Jones said that no hotel referred Haggard and that he advertises only in gay publications.

In a TV interview this week, Haggard said: "Never had a gay relationship with anybody, and I'm steady with my wife, I'm faithful to my wife."

Church member Christine Rayes, 47, said the congregation had hoped the allegations "were all lies."

"We all have to move forward now," she said. "This doesn't make what Ted accomplished here any less. The farther up you are, the more you are a target for Satan."

[Logan13]

[QUOTE=Tock]Well, polygraphs aren't 100% accurate. Also keep in mind that the polygraph examiner said that the results could have been skewed because the guy was suffering from a migrane headache at the time, and had had only 2 hours of sleep.


Regardless, the church did some investigating, and they evidently are convinced that the preacher is guilty of something

Just wanted both sides to be presented. Obviously Haggard is guilty of something, even by his own admission.
Seems that Haggard is guilty of being a homosexual and his punishment will be a lake of fire!!!!!........

AAAAhahahahahahahahaha!

[Tock]

[QUOTE=Logan13]

Seems that Haggard is guilty of being a homosexual and his punishment will be a lake of fire!!!!!........

AAAAhahahahahahahahaha!

Huh . . . I thought you were agnostic, Logan, and didn't beleive all that stuff . . .

Nevertheless, Haggard is a prime candidate for one of those ministries that tries to change gays into straights. I'll bet he "takes the treatment" and then runs one of them. That'll be fun -- as they say, "There's no more obnoxious homosexual than an ex-homosexual." Then we'll be treated to another one of his relapses, and then who knows what . . .

[Logan13]

[QUOTE=Tock]

Huh . . . I thought you were agnostic, Logan, and didn't beleive all that stuff . . .
Nevertheless, Haggard is a prime candidate for one of those ministries that tries to change gays into straights. I'll bet he "takes the treatment" and then runs one of them. That'll be fun -- as they say, "There's no more obnoxious homosexual than an ex-homosexual." Then we'll be treated to another one of his relapses, and then who knows what . . .

I don't, but it was late and it made me laugh. That guy just looks like a fake. Even before this scandel he gave me the willys, there was just something about him. The kind of guy who after you shake his hand you feel greasy, not that I ever met him.

[Joey2ness]

Seems that Haggard is guilty of being a homosexual and his punishment will be a lake of fire!!!!!........

The Bible's condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible's condemnation of premarital sex. So if you had heterosexual sex before marriage you to will face the same fate

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9;&version=49;
do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, (1 Cor 6:9) ~~Holy Bible

[Tock]

The Bible's condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible's condemnation of premarital sex.

The problem here is whether or not the Bible is a source of reliable information.
In my humble opinion, it is not. In the opinion of most theologians and Bible historians, it is not. We've covered this topic several times in other threads, so I won't elaborate further.
The Bible is a source of tradition and religious values, many of which are antiquated and impractical (like mandatory death sentences for gays, witches, sabbath-breakers, prognosticators and their customers, disobedient children, etc). You are free to beleive whatever you like, and to observe whatever Bible traditions you like, up to the point where you begin to break the law.