Awaiting the Iranian messiah?

[Logan13]

Oh Boy, and you guys bitch about the Christians...........
Awaiting the Iranian messiah?
Nov. 12, 2006
ynetnews.com

A glimpse into the apocalyptic ideology gripping the Iranian government

He challenges the largest superpower on earth, threatens a regional superpower with annihilation, and mocks international efforts to keep tabs on his nuclear program. Where does the unswerving confidence of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad come from?

To whom did Ahmadinejad refer to when he told the United Nations in September: "I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for… the perfect righteous human being and real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet. Almighty God… make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return and his cause. "

According to Shiite Islam, the twelfth Imam, named Mahdi, is the awaited messiah who will establish the rule of Islam around the world – following a massive war during which Islam's enemies are expected to be decimated. Iran's official state websites are filled with information about the Islamic Republic's messiah.

"Imam Mahdi was unseen from the eyes of common people and nobody could see him except special group of Shiites... After the martyrdom of his father he was appointed as the next Imam. Then he was hidden by God's command and he was just observable by the special deputies of his own," the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting website declares.

'One strike to end infidels'

Iran's state broadcasting website also contains a special hadith (tradition) prayer, to be recited on the birthday of the Mahdi: "Today is Friday, a day you are expected to come; the faithful will be free of cares and troubles when you shall arrive, and with one strike shall put an end to the intrigues of the infidels."

Speaking to Ynetnews, Professor Raymond Tanter, one of the authors of the forthcoming book 'What Makes Iran Tick,' which explores the Shiite Islamist ideology of Iran, said there was no questioning the belief of Iran's leaders in the coming of the Mahdi.

Tanter, President of the Iran Policy Committee , a Washington-based organization comprised of former officials from the White House, State Department, Pentagon, and intelligence services, said: "The Iranian leadership, particularly Ahmadinejad, welcome the apocalyptic vision of the return of the hidden Imam. And all the strains of Islam believe in the eventual return of the Mahdi, also known as the twelfth Imam, or the Shiite messiah. After a period of great destruction, once the forces of evil are defeated, the so-called twelfth Imam is supposed to reign over a period of great prosperity."

"When Ahmadinejad was mayor of Tehran, he set up an urban renewal program that would make it easier to facilitate the Mahdi's return. He created passageways and roadways that would allow the Mahdi to return triumphantly. He operationalized this concept," Tanter added. The Iranian president did not view himself as the Shiite messiah though, according to Tanter.

'Man of a thousand bullets'

"Ahmadinejad was called the man of a thousand bullets. Because he would give the last bullet for someone who has been tortured, and primarily executed by firing squad. Ahmadinejad's role was to put the last bullet in, in case the person was still squirming. After a thousand people had been killed, supposedly he said, he had it with that particular job," Tanter said.

Tanter noted Ahmadinejad's comments after a speech to the UN General Assembly in 2005, which he also concluded with a call for the Mahdi to return. After the speech, Ahmadinejad said that "the hand of God had held all of them" in a hypnotized-like state, and had "opened their eyes and ears."

"Before the return of the Mahdi, there must be a suitable representative to govern in the Mahdi's place," Tanter explained.

"They are ruling until the Mahdi comes. That is the justification for Khamenei to rule," he added.

Tanter said that "most of the ayatollahs in Iran don't buy this, that you can facilitate the return of the messiah," adding that Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah probably "doesn't take it that seriously."

"Ahmadinejad is taking steps well beyond the rest of Islam," he said.

Messianic nuclear weapons

"There is a link between Iran’s nuclear weapons program on one hand, and its ideology of trying to facilitate a cataclysmic event to hasten the return of the Mahdi. As a result, no conceivable positive or negative incentives will influence the leadership of the clerics and the revolutionary guards from acquiring nuclear weapons. They need nuclear weapons in order to facilitate the ideological precepts of the return of the Mahdi," said Tanter.

"The process of diplomacy as far as Ahmadinejad and Khamenei are concerned is to prevent sanctions that would constrain the nuclear weapons progress, and to that extent Iran has done well to drag out this process," he added.

Citing realist arguments that Iran needs nuclear weapons "to deter neighbors in a tough neighborhood," Tanter said such views were misguided. "These nuclear weapons are tied to the return of the Mahdi, and no one says this," he says.

An excerpt from 'What Makes Iran Tick' left no doubts over the authors view of Iran's intentions: "Just as it is in the nature of the scorpion to sting, so it is in the nature of the ayatollahs ruling Iran to establish an Islamic empire and destroy Israel."

It continued: "Toward these ends, the regime pursues nuclear weapons, subverts Iraq, and supplies money and arms to Islamist terrorist groups like Hizbullah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad… The deliberate initiation of war with Israel in July 2006 by Hizbullah, most probably at the direction of the Iranian regime, confirmed the worst fears about Ahmadinejad… a nuclear-armed Iran the single greatest security threat to the international community in general, and to the United States and Israel in particular."

[spywizard]

He's also known as the anti christ..

[Tock]

To whom did Ahmadinejad refer to when he told the United Nations in September: "I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for… the perfect righteous human being and real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet. Almighty God… make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return and his cause. "

According to Shiite Islam, the twelfth Imam, named Mahdi, is the awaited messiah who will establish the rule of Islam around the world – following a massive war during which Islam's enemies are expected to be decimated. Iran's official state websites are filled with information about the Islamic Republic's messiah. It continued: "Toward these ends, the regime pursues nuclear weapons, subverts Iraq, and supplies money and arms to Islamist terrorist groups like Hizbullah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad… The deliberate initiation of war with Israel in July 2006 by Hizbullah, most probably at the direction of the Iranian regime, confirmed the worst fears about Ahmadinejad… a nuclear-armed Iran the single greatest security threat to the international community in general, and to the United States and Israel in particular."

Perfect example of why religion and government do not mix.
Viva la seperation of church & state!

[3Vandoo]

Why cant we send a few bombs in their parliement when they are debating

same applies to Venezuela

[alphaman]

It continued: "Toward these ends, the regime pursues nuclear weapons, subverts Iraq, and supplies money and arms to Islamist terrorist groups like Hizbullah, Hamas, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad… The deliberate initiation of war with Israel in July 2006 by Hizbullah, most probably at the direction of the Iranian regime, confirmed the worst fears about Ahmadinejad… a nuclear-armed Iran the single greatest security threat to the international community in general, and to the United States and Israel in particular."

In another thread I said that this situation was the greatest threat that the world has ever seen -- Johan didn't agree. While this guy doesn't present it at that magnitude, I agree with everything he's said. To build on his case -- I think that the situation with Iran paired with biblical prophecy is what makes this a very dangerous sitation -- the most dangerous. While Hitler was a threat -- he didn't have nuclear weapons. While the Soviet Union had nukes -- they didn't use them. These people want to commit genocide, they will have nukes -- and they'll use them to fufill their agenda.







BTW Johan -- I'm not done with that thead -- I'll respond to it this weekend when I have more time. I was home with the flu Monday.

[alphaman]

Perfect example of why religion and government do not mix.
Viva la seperation of church & state!

You don't want religion in the mix of anything...................

[mcpeepants]

In another thread I said that this situation was the greatest threat that the world has ever seen -- Johan didn't agree. While this guy doesn't present it at that magnitude, I agree with everything he's said. To build on his case -- I think that the situation with Iran paired with biblical prophecy is what makes this a very dangerous sitation -- the most dangerous. While Hitler was a threat -- he didn't have nuclear weapons. While the Soviet Union had nukes -- they didn't use them. These people want to commit genocide, they will have nukes -- and they'll use them to fufill their agenda.

The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists





BTW Johan -- I'm not done with that thead -- I'll respond to it this weekend when I have more time. I was home with the flu Monday.

The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists

[Logan13]

The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists

It is amazing who you give the benefit of the doubt to and who you do not, it just defies logic. But maybe that is "cool" where you come from.....

[mcpeepants]

It is amazing who you give the benefit of the doubt to and who you do not, it just defies logic. But maybe that is "cool" where you come from.....

you didn't deny what I said. fear is used politicians and elites to justify wasting our tax dollars, meddlling in other countries policy, stripping us of rights, regime change, starting wars etc

[MuscleScience]

maybe If we would have only appeased Hitler a little more, or imposed somesort of economic sanctions or rewards for positive progress or even better had 6 way multi-national talks.

[alphaman]

The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists

Well, someone who wants to fulfill what they believe to be the will of God by paving the way for the "messiah" by starting a nuclear war is a bigger threat than "godless' people, imo.

[Kale]

You don't want religion in the mix of anything...................

He isnt the only one !!!

[mcpeepants]

Well, someone who wants to fulfill what they believe to be the will of God by paving the way for the "messiah" by starting a nuclear war is a bigger threat than "godless' people, imo.

you don't need religion to believe in something so much that you'd kill for it.

[alphaman]

you don't need religion to believe in something so much that you'd kill for it.

What difference does that make here? Their motive is driven by religious beliefs. They believe they are carrying out the will of God -- and because of that, it's a much more dangerous situation.

[alphaman]

He isnt the only one !!!

What's your point?

[mcpeepants]

What difference does that make here? Their motive is driven by religious beliefs. They believe they are carrying out the will of God -- and because of that, it's a much more dangerous situation.

The Iranian government is not suicidal just as the Soviet Union wasn't. This is just the same old propaganda tactic to demonize people so it makes them easier to attack. It's also like your assuming just because someone is religious there less rational. Do you apply the same view to Bush and born-again christians?

Professor Raymond Tanter, who is quoted and mentioned in the above article, is a member Iran Policy Committee which wants regime change in and favor economic sanctions and bombing of iran. doesn't the sound a lot like Ahmed Chalabi and the Iraqi exiles. The people in the article favor regime change and will do anything to make it possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Policy_Committee

[Kärnfysikern]

In another thread I said that this situation was the greatest threat that the world has ever seen -- Johan didn't agree. While this guy doesn't present it at that magnitude, I agree with everything he's said. To build on his case -- I think that the situation with Iran paired with biblical prophecy is what makes this a very dangerous sitation -- the most dangerous. While Hitler was a threat -- he didn't have nuclear weapons. While the Soviet Union had nukes -- they didn't use them. These people want to commit genocide, they will have nukes -- and they'll use them to fufill their agenda.

Yupp but the soviet union had the capability to end the world. Ahmajinad whatever its spelled doesnt and will never have that capability. So the utterly worst case scenario would be him nuking a big euro, american or israeli city. Its nothing compared to the total world annihilation threat from ussr.

Offcourse I dont give much weight to biblical prophecies Im sure people said the biblical prophecies where beeing fullfilled pre ww2, Im sure some said it during the napoleonic wars ect. There is always someone saying the prophecies are beeing fullfilled right now.

BTW Johan -- I'm not done with that thead -- I'll respond to it this weekend when I have more time. I was home with the flu Monday.

Hope your feeling better

[Kärnfysikern]

Well, someone who wants to fulfill what they believe to be the will of God by paving the way for the "messiah" by starting a nuclear war is a bigger threat than "godless' people, imo.

What difference does that make here? Their motive is driven by religious beliefs. They believe they are carrying out the will of God -- and because of that, it's a much more dangerous situation.

I can agree to that, theres nothing quite as nutty as a true hardcore religious fanatic beliving he is following the will of god and is ready to slaughter for it.

but to belive these extraordinary claims of iran madness I would need extraordinary evidence. The bigger the claim the bigger the evidence needed. I dont se how labeling Iran as crazy is anymore realiable than it was to claim Nikita khrushchev is crasy because he was banging the table at the un ect.

This is a quote from that gentleman.

"Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you"

Offcourse those word got twisted because of missunderstanding and misstranslation because what he realy meant was that the working class of the western world will burry capitalism. Not that the USSR will literaly burry the west.

Media has always loved to exagerate and willfully missinterpret things to make it sound more news worthy.

[alphaman]

Yupp but the soviet union had the capability to end the world. Ahmajinad whatever its spelled doesnt and will never have that capability. So the utterly worst case scenario would be him nuking a big euro, american or israeli city. Its nothing compared to the total world annihilation threat from ussr.

Offcourse I dont give much weight to biblical prophecies Im sure people said the biblical prophecies where beeing fullfilled pre ww2, Im sure some said it during the napoleonic wars ect. There is always someone saying the prophecies are beeing fullfilled right now.





Hope your feeling better

How do you know he'll never have that capability? How do you know what will ensue if he nukes Israel? How do you know how the rest of the world will react? Your worst case scenario is unlikely, and not the most dangerous ny any means. What is dangerous is world war.


But then....... you don't know much about Biblical prophecy do you?

I'm better, thanks bro.

[alphaman]

I can agree to that, theres nothing quite as nutty as a true hardcore religious fanatic beliving he is following the will of god and is ready to slaughter for it.

but to belive these extraordinary claims of iran madness I would need extraordinary evidence. The bigger the claim the bigger the evidence needed. I dont se how labeling Iran as crazy is anymore realiable than it was to claim Nikita khrushchev is crasy because he was banging the table at the un ect.

This is a quote from that gentleman.


Offcourse those word got twisted because of missunderstanding and misstranslation because what he realy meant was that the working class of the western world will burry capitalism. Not that the USSR will literaly burry the west.

Media has always loved to exagerate and willfully missinterpret things to make it sound more news worthy.

Bad analogy. Ahmadenejad said, "Israel should be wiped off the map." and that "the world would be better off if Jews didn't exist."

Hard to mistranslate that.

[alphaman]

Do you apply the same view to Bush and born-again christians?

Yes -- those weird "born again" people are completely irrational, and totally nuts.

[alphaman]

This is just the same old propaganda tactic to demonize people so it makes them easier to attack.

Professor Raymond Tanter, who is quoted and mentioned in the above article, is a member Iran Policy Committee which wants regime change in and favor economic sanctions and bombing of iran. doesn't the sound a lot like Ahmed Chalabi and the Iraqi exiles. The people in the article favor regime change and will do anything to make it possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Policy_Committee

Point out one thing in the article that's false.

[Tock]

.. you don't know much about Biblical prophecy do you?

Hal Lindsey, author of "The Late Great Planet Earth," was supposed to know lots about Bible prophecy. His book, written back in the 1970's, painted a grim picture about how the world was supposed to have been ended a decade or two ago. It was also chuck-full of speculations, half-truths, tortured Bible interpretations, and pure unadulterated BS.

You don't hear much about him any more . . . and you don't hear much about the hundreds of other folks who have claimed down through the years that the world was going to end soon. And who's next to add their silliness to the roster of failed prophets? Would you like to give it a try?

[MuscleScience]

Wiether the issue is Iran, Iraq, North Korea, east vs west, shiite vs sunni, Palastininans and Jews. People will always find a way not to let others live thier lives as they see fit. It comes down to loving your kids more than loving yourself, so they may not grow up in such a hateful world and never know its terrific capacity for uglyness.

Mcpeepants what is your backround your very well spoken, just curious

[ecivon]

Bad analogy. Ahmadenejad said, "Israel should be wiped off the map." and that "the world would be better off if Jews didn't exist."

Hard to mistranslate that.

Actually Ahmadinejad was misquoted out of context in the translation. He did not say that Israel should be wiped off the map. He said that if it wasn't for the Balfour Declaration and the British, Israel wouldn't be here today.

And if the Iranians are religious extremists just what do you call the jews and Israel? Their whole philosophy and driving force is that the land was given to them by God and they are the 'chosen people'. What's not extremist about that? "From the river to the sea" and "Eretz Yisroel."

Regardless of what this side said, or that side said, there is a right to self-defense, self-determination and legitimate resistance, it is not just justified on the jewish side.

[Kärnfysikern]

How do you know he'll never have that capability? How do you know what will ensue if he nukes Israel? How do you know how the rest of the world will react? Your worst case scenario is unlikely, and not the most dangerous ny any means. What is dangerous is world war.


But then....... you don't know much about Biblical prophecy do you?

I'm better, thanks bro.

The rest of the world would not start a nuclear war over iran and israel. Russia and america has like 10k nukes each, UK around 200, france around 400 and china proclaim around 200. So unless USA and russia starts throwing stuff at eachother we wont have a worldwide nuclear holocaust. I doubt France and Britain would support either Iran or Israel. I dont se any reason for russia to risk annihilation over Iran either.

I dont se how Iran nuking Israel could turn into world war. When it comes down to it no country is willing to stick there neck out for either of those 2. America has pledged to protect Israel, but no one is protecting Iran.

I have never bothered with the bible

Bad analogy. Ahmadenejad said, "Israel should be wiped off the map." and that "the world would be better off if Jews didn't exist."

Hard to mistranslate that.

The acctualy quote was something like Israel will be wiped from the pages of time or something like that. It wasnt as bad as "israel should be wiped of the map". Either way I dont like that nutbag either. Hes got a big mouth and a few screws lose. But he isnt in controll of the army or the nuclear program. The real question is what goes on in the Ayathollas mind.

[mcpeepants]

Point out one thing in the article that's false.

There's nothing bad about Ahmadinejad's quote in the beginning. I'm not familiar about the Mahdi so I need to see more evidence about him. Most of the article a booked authored by Professor Raymond Tanter who is a member of a group that supports regime change in Iran. I think this gives me some idea to be skeptical of their quotes and there motivation.

[mcpeepants]

Wiether the issue is Iran, Iraq, North Korea, east vs west, shiite vs sunni, Palastininans and Jews. People will always find a way not to let others live thier lives as they see fit. It comes down to loving your kids more than loving yourself, so they may not grow up in such a hateful world and never know its terrific capacity for uglyness.

Mcpeepants what is your backround your very well spoken, just curious

I was born in Uganda and am now am an American citizen. I'm currently getting my master's degree in Mechanical Engineering. I politically independent with liberal-liberterian views and like to stay informed about national and international news.

[alphaman]

There's nothing bad about Ahmadinejad's quote in the beginning. I'm not familiar about the Mahdi so I need to see more evidence about him. Most of the article a booked authored by Professor Raymond Tanter who is a member of a group that supports regime change in Iran. I think this gives me some idea to be skeptical of their quotes and there motivation.

How does this comment expose a false statement in the article?

[alphaman]

Hal Lindsey, author of "The Late Great Planet Earth," was supposed to know lots about Bible prophecy. His book, written back in the 1970's, painted a grim picture about how the world was supposed to have been ended a decade or two ago. It was also chuck-full of speculations, half-truths, tortured Bible interpretations, and pure unadulterated BS.

You don't hear much about him any more . . . and you don't hear much about the hundreds of other folks who have claimed down through the years that the world was going to end soon. And who's next to add their silliness to the roster of failed prophets? Would you like to give it a try?

I'm sure it makes you feel real comfortable. Too bad that's only temporary, huh?

[alphaman]

Actually Ahmadinejad was misquoted out of context in the translation. He did not say that Israel should be wiped off the map. He said that if it wasn't for the Balfour Declaration and the British, Israel wouldn't be here today.

Prove it.

[alphaman]

Regardless of what this side said, or that side said, there is a right to self-defense, self-determination and legitimate resistance, it is not just justified on the jewish side.

Why does Iran need to worry about Israel taking these rightss?

[Kärnfysikern]

Prove it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...788481,00.html

Now we face a similar propaganda distortion of remarks by Iran's president. Ask anyone in Washington, London or Tel Aviv if they can cite any phrase uttered by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the chances are high they will say he wants Israel "wiped off the map".

Again it is four short words, though the distortion is worse than in the Khrushchev case. The remarks are not out of context. They are wrong, pure and simple. Ahmadinejad never said them. Farsi speakers have pointed out that he was mistranslated. The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished.

He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The "page of time" phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon. There was no implication that either Khomeini, when he first made the statement, or Ahmadinejad, in repeating it, felt it was imminent, or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about.

[alphaman]

` America has pledged to protect Israel, but no one is protecting Iran.

China? Russia?

[alphaman]

I have never bothered with the bible



.

The major disconnect in 90% of our conversations.

[mcpeepants]

How does this comment expose a false statement in the article?

Most of the quotes are coming from a guy who wants regime change in Iran. He has reason to make Iran look as bad as possible to making bombing it easier like the Iraqi exiles spreading lies about Iraq's wmd program to facilate are invasion of Iraq.

[alphaman]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...788481,00.html

That is a bunch of liberal crap. Plain and simple. He and Khomeni both meant the same thing and it's sickening to see this spinster garbage.




I gotta go buy my wife a b-day present.

[alphaman]

Most of the quotes are coming from a guy who wants regime change in Iran. He has reason to make Iran look as bad as possible to making bombing it easier like the Iraqi exiles spreading lies about Iraq's wmd program to facilate are invasion of Iraq.

Uhhh, false statement?


No???


Then give it up.

[Kärnfysikern]

The major disconnect in 90% of our conversations.

When we talk about religion maby But not when talking about world events...

China? Russia?

Nah, China is growing rich off america and Russia is growing rich of the EU. Neither one of them would risk the trade to protect Iran. The money those 2 countries make off america and EU is far far far more than any possible deal they can make with Iran. Putin is a ruthless and smart man, the moment Iran becomes a burden he will drop all support. Its not like Putin is a friend of radical islamists. He probably hates them even more than Bush.

[Kärnfysikern]

That is a bunch of liberal crap. Plain and simple. He and Khomeni both meant the same thing and it's sickening to see this spinster garbage.

Everyone that disagree is a liberal

Do a goggle search and you will find plenty of other articles, I just found that one in a few seconds. I have read plenty others.

I gotta go buy my wife a b-day present.

Buy her something nice mate. Flowers and a big box of chocolate