Whites Only Scholarship Creates Outrage

[Kärnfysikern]

x2


Johan, you usally impress me, but that statement was kinda surprising coming from you

Not realy suprising if you consider the fact that I have been enjoying totaly free universities for 3 years now I dont se any downside with beeing able to attend the university with the best reputation in sweden without having to pay anything at all.

All swedish universities are totaly free and swedish education has a very high standard.

So what is the downside with having free universities? The academic qualifications to get into the universities are still just as high.
Id say it even increase the quality because to get in to something like med school here you have to be the best, not only beeing good and having plenty of money. The competition is insane.

[Kärnfysikern]

I will admit I am impressed with the way things seem be run in your country Johan, with the exception of the employment rate. I just wonder sometimes if the population of the US is capable of sustaining itself through such a system. Capitalism instills the wants which drive the work ethic which earns the money which satisfies the want. Keeps the masses happy.

We have lots of issues, but I would not give up the free education for anything. I would rather give up free healthcare than give up free education. The free education is the basis for the swedish success in technology. Ericsson ect.

I mean the capitalist drive exist here aswell. Remember that we have companies like IKEA, volvo, Ericsson that are huge. People get education to earn more money here just as they do over there. We just make sure that you dont have to be well off economicaly to have a safe life. You dont have to be rich to make sure your kid can attend the best universities.
Total freedom of chooise with only academic qualifications beeing the requiremnt. I can not imagine any better way to run the higher education in a country.

[RA]

Every time there is a question theres a socialist answer. Why do you think it would work here? 300 million people vs 9 million. Its like comparing Michigan alone to the rest of the U.S. Your way was tried with a huge country, the old U.S.S.R., it didnt work.

[SVTMuscle*]

Not realy suprising if you consider the fact that I have been enjoying totaly free universities for 3 years now I dont se any downside with beeing able to attend the university with the best reputation in sweden without having to pay anything at all.

All swedish universities are totaly free and swedish education has a very high standard.

So what is the downside with having free universities? The academic qualifications to get into the universities are still just as high.
Id say it even increase the quality because to get in to something like med school here you have to be the best, not only beeing good and having plenty of money. The competition is insane.

Sweden — Population: 9,001,774
United States — Population: 295,734,134
are there even black people in Sweden?
Im sure its alot easier to give free education to 9 million oppose to 295 million

[Kärnfysikern]

Every time there is a question theres a socialist answer. Why do you think it would work here? 300 million people vs 9 million. Its like comparing Michigan alone to the rest of the U.S. Your way was tried with a huge country, the old U.S.S.R., it didnt work.

The USSR and sweden is nothing alike. Stupid comparison.

Id say percentage of population that is enrolled in college and universities would be a better figure. If sweden has a much lower percentage of the population in higher educations it would be telling. But if we are roughly equal I dont se why it would not work in the us. Im to lazy to look up the statistics though.

What about germany? What do they have, I guess 70 million or something like that. Isnt universities more or less free there aswell? Im not sure but I remember a german exchange student mentioning it.

[Kärnfysikern]

http://www.daad.de/deutschland/studi.../00493.en.html

they have atleast been free in germany

In france they are farely cheap
http://www.edufrance-canada.com/sejour04.asp

University tuition is rarely more than € 300 per academic year. Tuition rates vary by program and by type of institution. In public schools of engineering, the annual tuition is approximately € 600.

So it works in a country with 82 million people and its almost free in another with 63 million..

[RA]

The USSR and sweden is nothing alike. Stupid comparison.

Id say percentage of population that is enrolled in college and universities would be a better figure. If sweden has a much lower percentage of the population in higher educations it would be telling. But if we are roughly equal I dont se why it would not work in the us. Im to lazy to look up the statistics though.

What about germany? What do they have, I guess 70 million or something like that. Isnt universities more or less free there aswell? Im not sure but I remember a german exchange student mentioning it.

Basically everything we discuss you want run by the govt. I would say thats closer to the USSR then the US so its not a stupid comparison.

One of the youngest countries in the world and we are leading the way in many many many areas yet those in Europe sit back and say we are doing everything wrong. I cant remember the last time countries such as sweden did anything significant.

I think well stick with what we have

[SVTMuscle*]

The world needs scientists and ditch diggers.

[Kärnfysikern]

Basically everything we discuss you want run by the govt. I would say thats closer to the USSR then the US so its not a stupid comparison.

One of the youngest countries in the world and we are leading the way in many many many areas yet those in Europe sit back and say we are doing everything wrong. I cant remember the last time countries such as sweden did anything significant.

I think well stick with what we have

Nah I dont want it goverment run!! I want it funded by tax money. There is a whole world of difference! We have for instance plenty of high schools here that are free to attend but not at all goverment run. They are just tax funded.

I want the same for the healthcare system. I dont care if the hospitals are private or goverment. Aslong as they are free and tax funded. But I dont demand they are exclusivly tax funded. They can be funded by whatever, aslong as they are free.

I acctualy prefer if its not run by the goverment.

Im not saying you are doing things wrong. But a society isnt equal unless healthcare and education is the same for everyone.

So back to the question. What is so horrible with universities that are free to attend and the only requirement to study there is grades and test results?

[Kärnfysikern]

What do you consider significant btw. Bombing baghdad

[Logan13]

Signs of someone losing an argument... resort to insults!! Typical.

And another correction, a bigot is someone who puts down another race or ethnicity because of his or her own insecurity. Although you bring up many viable points Logan, whenever someone challenges you, you have a tendency to digress to lame insults. I, too wish you well. Discussing racial issues with a bigot is like discussing the existance of a higher power with a preacher. No matter what you tell them you cannot change their minds.

I hope one day people like Logan and other angry, privledged whites realize that there are hardworking minorities (blacks and latinos included) that have achieved their place in society without the need of these so-called handouts. I hope you all realize one day that the majority of blacks and other minorities live in middle class neighborhoods and are viable members of society. Common sense would lead one to believe that if every minority could get into college without good grades because of these handouts then at least every freshman class in college would be overwhelmed with minority students, but again all studies indicate that minority enrollment in colleges is only 5-12% of the total number of enrollments at major universitites. And if minorities could get jobs without having experience and education then unemployment for minorities would be much less than the average, but of course we know that is not true. But if you listen to bigots across the board, the reason is minorities (black in particular) just don't like to work. Very sad indeed.

I love a good debate! Take care! Happy HOlidays!!!!

You threw around the word bigot twice before I retaliated, funny how you forget who spewed the insults originally. Many minorities have achieved through hard work, my entire tirade was about those who do not work their ass off and yet still expect a handout and handup. But you already knew that this was my point, didn't you. Tell you what, I'll accept the role of bigot since you seem to be filling the role of "Victim" so well........

[Logan13]

We have lots of issues, but I would not give up the free education for anything. I would rather give up free healthcare than give up free education. The free education is the basis for the swedish success in technology. Ericsson ect.

I mean the capitalist drive exist here aswell. Remember that we have companies like IKEA, volvo, Ericsson that are huge. People get education to earn more money here just as they do over there. We just make sure that you dont have to be well off economicaly to have a safe life. You dont have to be rich to make sure your kid can attend the best universities.
Total freedom of chooise with only academic qualifications beeing the requiremnt. I can not imagine any better way to run the higher education in a country.

Volvo really does a nice job on their vehicles. I got my wife a XC90 last spring, the damn thing rides like a dream.

[Logan13]

Nah I dont want it goverment run!! I want it funded by tax money. There is a whole world of difference! We have for instance plenty of high schools here that are free to attend but not at all goverment run. They are just tax funded.

I want the same for the healthcare system. I dont care if the hospitals are private or goverment. Aslong as they are free and tax funded. But I dont demand they are exclusivly tax funded. They can be funded by whatever, aslong as they are free.

I acctualy prefer if its not run by the goverment.

Im not saying you are doing things wrong. But a society isnt equal unless healthcare and education is the same for everyone.

So back to the question. What is so horrible with universities that are free to attend and the only requirement to study there is grades and test results?

If it is funded by tax dollars, it is government run.

[Teabagger]

You threw around the word bigot twice before I retaliated, funny how you forget who spewed the insults originally. Many minorities have achieved through hard work, my entire tirade was about those who do not work their ass off and yet still expect a handout and handup. But you already knew that this was my point, didn't you. Tell you what, I'll accept the role of bigot since you seem to be filling the role of "Victim" so well........

It is so true that when someone does not agree with continuing the culture of dependance he/she is called a bigot, racist, etc...It has lost its punch though...kinda like crying wolf too many times...nobody listens now.

As far as Jews being "white", well there are Jews of european heritage that are white. There are also African, Arab, S. American and Central American Jews...

Shalom brothers.

[spywizard]

Make universities totaly free to attend and the problem is solved.

And the education and value will be lost...


"The world needs ditch diggers too ya know"

Quote from ???

[BgMc31]

You threw around the word bigot twice before I retaliated, funny how you forget who spewed the insults originally. Many minorities have achieved through hard work, my entire tirade was about those who do not work their ass off and yet still expect a handout and handup. But you already knew that this was my point, didn't you. Tell you what, I'll accept the role of bigot since you seem to be filling the role of "Victim" so well........

Not really seeing where I'm playing the 'Victim'. Considering I've gotten everything I've received through hard work and determination. I come from a middle class, military family and never have taken a hand-out from anyone.

I don't consider calling someone a bigot and insult if it's true. Sure you can call me a liberal or anything else you want as long as it's true. A victim, I am not!!!!!

As far as the idea of Jews being white or non-white, the point I was making is the majority of Jews are white. Logan tried comparing the plight of blacks in America to those of Jews. You cannot compare the two. Jews who immigrated to this country from Eastern Europe are white and had the opportunity to change their names and hide their identity. Being a Jew isn't a race, but a religion. I do recognize that the majority of Ethiopia is Jewish, but when you see an Ethiopian, the first thing you see is not a Jew, but a black man/woman. The same applies for Steven Spielberg, Goldie Hawn, Micheal and Kirk Douglas. When you see them, you don't see Jews, you see white people.

[SVTMuscle*]

And the education and value will be lost...


"The world needs ditch diggers too ya know"

Quote from ???

me!!

[3Vandoo]

Where do you bigots come up with these crappy theories. Affirmative action doesn't give scholarships to fat black kids with D- averages. Why does the kid have to be fat, anyway? But I digress. The purporse of affirmative action is give the minority (black, latino, asian, etc.) a scholarship, aide, or admission when grades and scholastic performance is equal to those of whites. By this I mean if a white student has a B average and a Mexican student has the same, chances are the Mexican would get the nod. Is it right, maybe, maybe not. Affirmative action programs were put into place because whites had a tendency to not accept minorities simply because they were minorities without even considering acedemic acheivement. So you have no one to blame but yourselves for affirmative action. I agree with what someone said earlier, make it free for everyone and all this would end.

Academic standards are relaxed by universities not to give minorities a leg up, but simply so the universities could get more federal dollars for having higher minority enrollment. Plus the educational standards in lower income areas around the country are much lower than those of higher income areas. Why, because students in these areas (inner cities, rural areas, reservations, etc.) have to deal with a lot more (particularly surviving) than those in middle-income, upper-income areas. So before you spout off ignorant (misinformed, uninformed) racist, rhetoric, please do some research.

Lastly, if you crunch the numbers, minority acceptance into major universities doesn't 'take away' from a 'deserving' white kid. When I went to college (91-95), I went to a major D1 college and less than 3% of the student population was Black. And 99% of those blacks were on athletic scholarship (myself included). And that's what major programs across the country are like. So I guess it's ok to throw 70 coons a bone every now and then in exchange for millions of dollars of revenue they produce for the universities. As long as they don't ask for anything else in return. It's all about money, not race!!!

Like Chris Rock says, "Why are white people complaining about affirmative action? What do y'all have to complain about... YOU'RE WHITE!!!" And you still get preferential treatment in most cases!

FLAME AWAY!!!!!

In my part of the hood!

University is FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but, the same affirmative actions applies!!!!!!

ie: Montreal police: Ethnic minorities only needs High School diplomas to join when a male caucasian needs college education!
Fair?
NO

for years we tend and brought equality, and when we can say there are a certain fairness in the system we see what there none and we allows free ride base on race, color and religion.

If people cannot ride with the bus, then just dont, dont get a free ride.

And my rhetoric is FROM EXPERIENCE LIVED and from what I saw with my own eyes!

So please get your liberals BS that pussifies the western world straighen up!

PS: I luv you!

:P

[3Vandoo]

In my part of the hood!

University is FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but, the same affirmative actions applies!!!!!!

ie: Montreal police: Ethnic minorities only needs High School diplomas to join when a male caucasian needs college education!
Fair?
NO

for years we tend and brought equality, and when we can say there are a certain fairness in the system we see what there none and we allows free ride base on race, color and religion.

If people cannot ride with the bus, then just dont, dont get a free ride.

And my rhetoric is FROM EXPERIENCE LIVED and from what I saw with my own eyes!

So please get your liberals BS that pussifies the western world straighen up!

PS: I luv you!

:P

PS: I live in canada, so applies my context to canada, not the US!

so for my part of america, it makes lot of sense!

[Logan13]

Not really seeing where I'm playing the 'Victim'. Considering I've gotten everything I've received through hard work and determination. I come from a middle class, military family and never have taken a hand-out from anyone.

I don't consider calling someone a bigot and insult if it's true. Sure you can call me a liberal or anything else you want as long as it's true. A victim, I am not!!!!!

As far as the idea of Jews being white or non-white, the point I was making is the majority of Jews are white. Logan tried comparing the plight of blacks in America to those of Jews. You cannot compare the two. Jews who immigrated to this country from Eastern Europe are white and had the opportunity to change their names and hide their identity. Being a Jew isn't a race, but a religion. I do recognize that the majority of Ethiopia is Jewish, but when you see an Ethiopian, the first thing you see is not a Jew, but a black man/woman. The same applies for Steven Spielberg, Goldie Hawn, Micheal and Kirk Douglas. When you see them, you don't see Jews, you see white people.

I have mentioned Jews, along with Asians/Hispanics/Pacific Islanders/Native Indians one time. To point out that these minority groups all have a higher median family income than blacks do. You seem to bring up Jews in every post... Blacks are not the only minority in the US, they are just the ones that complain the most. If you are so accomplished from your hard work, why do you not advocate the same for other minorities? Why is hard work so out of the question for them, and yet you were able to do it? I would say that you are a prime example of how hard work will get you ahead in this world. Spread the word.........

[RA]

Nah I dont want it goverment run!! I want it funded by tax money. There is a whole world of difference! We have for instance plenty of high schools here that are free to attend but not at all goverment run. They are just tax funded.

I want the same for the healthcare system. I dont care if the hospitals are private or goverment. Aslong as they are free and tax funded. But I dont demand they are exclusivly tax funded. They can be funded by whatever, aslong as they are free.

I acctualy prefer if its not run by the goverment.

Im not saying you are doing things wrong. But a society isnt equal unless healthcare and education is the same for everyone.

So back to the question. What is so horrible with universities that are free to attend and the only requirement to study there is grades and test results?

It is the same for everyone. If you work hard and get good grades in high school you get scholarships. If you dont get those you take out student loans and apply for a pell grant and work hard. Its a great system. It weeds out the lazy people or people who shouldnt be there.

If you use tax money for it the whole thing will be turned into another way for the govt to swipe money. They will use the money coming in for all kinds of other things. No way I would want to hand it over to them

[RA]

I would retort with some sarcasm about something swedens done but theres nothing

What do you consider significant btw. Bombing baghdad

[Kärnfysikern]

And the education and value will be lost...


"The world needs ditch diggers too ya know"

Quote from ???

Why

If two people have the highest possible grades and apply for a university. Is the one with rich parents by default the more promising student?

Like I said even if the education is free the academic qualifications needed to enter is just as high. It increase competition because then everyone will apply for the best universities, not only those fortunate enough to get a scholarship or those with rich mom and pop.

[Kärnfysikern]

Volvo really does a nice job on their vehicles. I got my wife a XC90 last spring, the damn thing rides like a dream.

Volvo has always been known for quality I guess. Dont know if I would buy one if I had a drivers lisence though. Most volvos are quite uggly

If it is funded by tax dollars, it is government run.

Not to any more extent than the requirement set for the company to get the tax money to run the school.

The goverment makes no demand on how you teach, the only requirement is that you cover everything important.

This is not the USSR with a crazy dude on top trying to controll everything Allthough our last prime minister sure ruled his party with a iron fist.

[guest589745]

I think this may be a factor, or maybe the white man is just smarter

I think you may have disproved this theory at some point or another in your 6,227+ posts baj, becuase you make my ass look retarded in comparison

Oh wait, I'm only half "White" ..............damnit. There goes my huge scholarship think of all the macaroni and mayonaise sammiches I coulda made with that! And on WHITE bread!

Interesting topic, both "sides" if you will, have made very valid points. Hard to make a decision as to what I think is "right".

[Kärnfysikern]

It is the same for everyone. If you work hard and get good grades in high school you get scholarships. If you dont get those you take out student loans and apply for a pell grant and work hard. Its a great system. It weeds out the lazy people or people who shouldnt be there.

If everyone that performs good realy can get scholarships. Not just like 1/100 that is lucky. Then its cool.

I doubt anyone can get into the ivy leage universities on student loans?

I dont se how this is any different from just having grades as requirement. Someone with perfect high school grades is obviously not lazy.

It sounds like you think I mean everyone that wants to should be able to get a university education. I hate stupid people just as much as you do

If you use tax money for it the whole thing will be turned into another way for the govt to swipe money. They will use the money coming in for all kinds of other things. No way I would want to hand it over to them

Theres always a risk that money will be "lost" on the way or used in some manner that does not directly improve education sure. Thats life.
I doubt all the tax money that should be used for defense spending goes directly to where its suposed to either. But if a couple of billion goes missing in a new classified defense research project its not as bad as if a few million get losts when funding colleges I guess.

I would retort with some sarcasm about something swedens done but theres nothing

Nah its because we only do good things

[guest589745]

whites continue to dominate all social aspects of culture. Sound absurb?

Well they sure the **** don't dominate music and sports I know that much

[spywizard]

Why

If two people have the highest possible grades and apply for a university. Is the one with rich parents by default the more promising student?

Like I said even if the education is free the academic qualifications needed to enter is just as high. It increase competition because then everyone will apply for the best universities, not only those fortunate enough to get a scholarship or those with rich mom and pop.

I'll reply...

the person with the highest score does not get the financial assistance that is needed to complete the coarse work..

that's what they do in Jameca (sp) the highest score goes on to college.. here in the usa, if a girl gets prego, no matter the race, and she lives with or without her parents she has a full ride, including living expenses..

If a while male, 18 yrs old although he has the high score, and his parents earn as little as $48,000 per year he recieves minimal financial aid, he must take out loans that he will have to repay..

so in our society in the USA, the cream does not rise to the top..

[spywizard]

and i agree with you, if we could get a system where the youngest and brightest get to continue..

did you know that here in MPLS MN, the "black schools" have a 50% drop out rate??? and that when they get to age 18, they can enter into college with ACT score's 40% below the accepted levels of academia..

[Kärnfysikern]

I'll reply...

the person with the highest score does not get the financial assistance that is needed to complete the coarse work..

that's what they do in Jameca (sp) the highest score goes on to college.. here in the usa, if a girl gets prego, no matter the race, and she lives with or without her parents she has a full ride, including living expenses..

If a while male, 18 yrs old although he has the high score, and his parents earn as little as $48,000 per year he recieves minimal financial aid, he must take out loans that he will have to repay..

so in our society in the USA, the cream does not rise to the top..

Id say that is a flawed system.

and i agree with you, if we could get a system where the youngest and brightest get to continue..

did you know that here in MPLS MN, the "black schools" have a 50% drop out rate??? and that when they get to age 18, they can enter into college with ACT score's 40% below the accepted levels of academia..

Whats MPLS MN

I hate bullshit like that. People should enter on academic qualifications alone. Nothing more, nothing less. In sweden we dont slip in minorities into educations just because they happen to wear a turban. If they did I would scream and rant and piss on the prime minister.

I have to add also that in sweden anyone have the financial oppertunity to study. Everyone that is accepted to a university education can apply and get around 900$/month while studying for a max of 6 years of studies.
3/4 of it beeing loan that we have to start paying 6 months after the education is finished and the rest beeing free.
But you need to offcourse present results from the studies or you dont get any cash at all. I would personaly wish they put strickter demands on people in ordet to get the money. But nobody can be lazy and continue to get cash. Im sure some people take advantage of it somehow. But they are surely in the minority because I have yet to meet someone that do.

So if you have the grades here to get into a education you are 100% guaranteed the financial support to get a good university education.

[RA]

I'll reply...

the person with the highest score does not get the financial assistance that is needed to complete the coarse work..

that's what they do in Jameca (sp) the highest score goes on to college.. here in the usa, if a girl gets prego, no matter the race, and she lives with or without her parents she has a full ride, including living expenses..

If a while male, 18 yrs old although he has the high score, and his parents earn as little as $48,000 per year he recieves minimal financial aid, he must take out loans that he will have to repay..

so in our society in the USA, the cream does not rise to the top..

If your parents stop claiming you on income tax 2 years before entering college then they take the wages of the student and not the parents.

[RA]

If everyone that performs good realy can get scholarships. Not just like 1/100 that is lucky. Then its cool.

I doubt anyone can get into the ivy leage universities on student loans?

I dont se how this is any different from just having grades as requirement. Someone with perfect high school grades is obviously not lazy.

It sounds like you think I mean everyone that wants to should be able to get a university education. I hate stupid people just as much as you do



Theres always a risk that money will be "lost" on the way or used in some manner that does not directly improve education sure. Thats life.
I doubt all the tax money that should be used for defense spending goes directly to where its suposed to either. But if a couple of billion goes missing in a new classified defense research project its not as bad as if a few million get losts when funding colleges I guess.

There is more than a risk, its almost a surety and I wouldnt want my tax dollars wasted like that.

Money does get wasted on the military but what good is the damn university if were all dead?

[RA]

If everyone that performs good realy can get scholarships. Not just like 1/100 that is lucky. Then its cool.

I doubt anyone can get into the ivy leage universities on student loans?

I dont se how this is any different from just having grades as requirement. Someone with perfect high school grades is obviously not lazy.

It sounds like you think I mean everyone that wants to should be able to get a university education. I hate stupid people just as much as you do

Probably not but sister attended a very good, very expensive four year university and had no help from my parents and she did just fine.

[Logan13]

Whats MPLS MN

Minneapolis, Minnesota

[Kärnfysikern]

There is more than a risk, its almost a surety and I wouldnt want my tax dollars wasted like that.

Money does get wasted on the military but what good is the damn university if were all dead?

Acceptable losses We just have different priorities

Probably not but sister attended a very good, very expensive four year university and had no help from my parents and she did just fine.

what did they study?

[RA]

what did they study?

She became a teacher and did it for a couple years. Then she went back to become a doctor. Shes doing ok in the $$ area now