Shiites Burn Six Sunni Worshippers Alive...

[Logan13]

These people are just sick, seriously.
Shiites Burn Six Sunni Worshippers Alive...
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Revenge-seeking militiamen seized six Sunnis as they left Friday prayers and burned them alive with kerosene in a savage new twist to the brutality shaking the Iraqi capital a day after suspected Sunni insurgents killed 215 people in Baghdad's main Shiite district.

Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in Friday's assault by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children, in the same neighborhood, the volatile Hurriyah district in northwest Baghdad, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein.

Most of the thousands of dead bodies that have been found dumped across Baghdad and other cities in central Iraq in recent months have been of victims who were tortured and then shot to death, according to police. The suspected militia killers often have used electric drills on their captives' bodies before killing them. The bodies are frequently decapitated.

But burning victims alive introduced a new method of brutality that was likely to be reciprocated by the other sect as the Shiites and Sunnis continue killing one another in unprecedented numbers. The gruesome attack, which came despite a curfew in Baghdad, capped a day in which at least 87 people were killed or found dead in sectarian violence across Iraq.

In Hurriyah, the rampaging militiamen also burned and blew up four mosques and torched several homes in the district, Hussein said.

Residents of the troubled district claim the Mahdi Army has begun kidnapping and holding Sunni hostages to use in ritual slaughter at the funerals of Shiite victims of Baghdad's raging sectarian war.

Such claims cannot be verified but speak to the deep fear that grips Baghdad, where retaliation has become a part of daily life.

President Jalal Talabani emerged from lengthy meetings with other Iraqi leaders late Friday and said the defense minister, A**ul-Qader al-Obaidi, indicated that the Hurriyah neighborhood had been quiet throughout the day.

But Imad al-Hasimi, a Sunni elder in Hurriyah, confirmed Hussein's account of the immolations. He told Al-Arabiya television he saw people who were drenched in kerosene and then set afire, burning to death before his eyes.

Two workers at Kazamiyah Hospital also confirmed that bodies from the clashes and immolation had been taken to the morgue at their facility. They refused to be identified by name, saying they feared retribution.

And the Association of Muslim Scholars, the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq, said even more victims were burned to death in attacks on the four mosques. It claimed a total of 18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque.

The extreme violence continued to tear at the Iraq's social fabric even after the government had banned pedestrians and cars from the streets and closed the international airport until further notice in anticipation of a storm of retaliation for the five bombings and two mortar rounds which killed 215 in Sadr City on Thursday.

The airport closure forced Talabani to delay his planned Saturday departure for Tehran for meetings with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The Iranian leader also invited Syrian President Bashar Assad, but it now appeared he would not attend.

The chaos also cast a shadow over the Amman, Jordan, summit next week between Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and President Bush.

Politicians loyal to radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr threatened to boycott parliament and the Cabinet if al-Maliki went ahead with the meeting. The political bloc, known as Sadrists, is a mainstay of support for al-Maliki. The Mahdi Army is the organization's armed wing.

Sadrist lawmaker Qusai A**ul-Wahab blamed U.S. forces for Thursday's attack in Sadr City because they failed to provide security.

"We say occupation forces are fully responsible for these acts, and we call for the withdrawal of occupation forces or setting a timetable for their withdrawal," A**ul-Wahab said.

A U.S. helicopter patrolling above Sadr City came under intense fire from the ground and shot back, wounding two people Friday night, according to police 1st. Lt. Qassim Mohammed and witnesses.

The U.S. military said the helicopter had taken fire from six rockets launched from one site and destroyed the launcher. The military statement did not address whether there were casualties.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzil said there was no change in the president's plans to meet with al-Maliki on Wednesday and Thursday.

Al-Maliki is increasingly at odds with the Bush administration for his refusal to disband militias and associated deaths squads that are believed responsible for killing thousands of Sunnis since an al-Qaida attack last February blew up the Golden Dome Shiite shrine in Samarra, north of Baghdad.

Mortar fire rained down again on Sunni Islam's holiest shrine in Baghdad, the Abu Hanifa mosque in the Azamiyah neighborhood, wounding at least five people. Several mortars crashed into the area Thursday night within hours of the attacks in Sadr City, one of them puncturing the dome of the shrine and damaging the interior, including its library.

Also, militia gunmen raided a Sunni mosque in the Amil section of west Baghdad, killing two guards, according to police 1st Lt. Maitham A**ul-Razaq.

And in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, Sunni insurgents blew up the dome of the important Shiite mosque of leading cleric A**ul-Karm al-Madani.

In the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar, 23 people were killed and 43 wounded when explosives hidden in a parked car and in a suicide belt worn by a pedestrian detonated simultaneously outside a car dealership, said police Brig. Khalaf al-Jubouri.

Altogether, 56 people were killed across in Iraq on Friday, and police said they found 31 bodies dumped throughout Baghdad, most of them tortured before being shot.

In Sadr City, cleanup crews continued removing remains of the dead from wreckage of the car bombs, and tents were erected throughout the ramshackle district for relatives to receive condolences.

Hundreds of men, women and children beat their chests, chanted and cried as they walked beside vehicles carrying the caskets of their loved ones toward the holy Shiite city of Najaf for burial. Despite Baghdad's curfew, al-Maliki, himself a Shiite, ordered police to guard the processions.

As the funeral processions reached the edge of Sadr City in northeastern Baghdad, the cars and minivans left most of the mourners behind and began the 100-mile drive south to Najaf, a treacherous journey that passes through many checkpoints and areas controlled by Sunni militants in Iraq's so-called "Triangle of Death."

[Kärnfysikern]

Maby the only solution is to split that country up in three.

The other option would be to get the souroding countries to help, to ask Iran, syria ect to help stabilise Iraq. Offcourse that would never happen. But I doubt the coalition or the current iraq goverment will be able to end this civil war. I realy do hope I am wrong though!

[BajanBastard]

The only option is to send in over whelming force and lock down all the hot spots in the country until the local troops and Gov't can get their act together.

[Kale]

The only option is to send in over whelming force and lock down all the hot spots in the country until the local troops and Gov't can get their act together.

And that I believe is the plan that will be presented to congress in the next few weeks. They want to increase troops by 20,000

[Kärnfysikern]

I dont se how 20 000 troops more would make a difference, It it was 200 000 maby.

[Prada]

Maby the only solution is to split that country up in three.

That would be outrageous and a failed policy. I see an overwhelming irony

The other option would be to get the souroding countries to help, to ask Iran, syria ect to help stabilise Iraq. Offcourse that would never happen. But I doubt the coalition or the current iraq goverment will be able to end this civil war. I realy do hope I am wrong though.

Right now we are trying to avoid or counter the power vacuum, I dont believe we want to get neigbouring countries involved due to theyre overly concerned with their egocentric views versus what is best for Iraq

The only option is to send in over whelming force and lock down all the hot spots in the country until the local troops and Gov't can get their act together.

Yes 20,000 is not significant, not to sure even if 200,000 would suffice

[Phreak101]

As an American I shouldn't be saying this, but what's wrong with letting them fight it out? Without interference, eventually a regime will stabilize. It's not as if the West has a ton of friends on either side...

[Teabagger]

I hate saying this, but its getting closer to the time for a complete withdrawal from Iraq. I supported the war and still do in principal, but by God the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" applies here.

My thoughts are this. If this "civil war" is being waged by a only a "few" on each side then the Iraqi people must snitch off the militants they know in their village, town, community. If they are not willing to do that...fvck'em.

If the above is not correct, and it is instead a true "civil war" with the population by and large supporting one side or the other, then fvck'em as well.

People get the government they deserve. If they are not yet ready for self goverance, then a strong man will rise to power...and oh well....it sucks to be them.

[Kärnfysikern]

Leaving now would turn Iraq into the biggest islamist/terrorist breeding ground on this planet. Bush would have failed his war on terror and succeded in making the world a lot less safe for everyone. Not just americans.

So leaving now is going to force the rest of the world to deal with your misstake.

[Kärnfysikern]

I hate saying this, but its getting closer to the time for a complete withdrawal from Iraq. I supported the war and still do in principal, but by God the old saying "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" applies here.

Are you still suprised that you guys are not meet with kisses and hugs from the local population? It never struck you that going into a country, bombing it to bits, letting its national treasuers get pilaged, making crime abudant ect would make people a bit upset? More people have died during this war than during the entire time sadam was a dictator.

You can not just wash your hands and blame the iraq people for this mess, the mess is 100% the Bush admins fault.

[Kärnfysikern]

What would happen if iraq was split into sunni, shiite and kurd countries?

[Kärnfysikern]

This article is quite old but very resonable. The EU is beeing to stubborn about iraq
http://fpc.org.uk/articles/303

[Teabagger]

Are you still suprised that you guys are not meet with kisses and hugs from the local population? It never struck you that going into a country, bombing it to bits, letting its national treasuers get pilaged, making crime abudant ect would make people a bit upset? More people have died during this war than during the entire time sadam was a dictator.

You can not just wash your hands and blame the iraq people for this mess, the mess is 100% the Bush admins fault.

First of all, we were met with hugs and kisses from most of the population for their liberation from Saddam. Second we didn't bomb the country to bits. We did take out infrastructure, as is good strategic planning. WE make crime abundant?? That is such a stupid statement I won't respond.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the mess in Iraq. Iran and Syria are two that come to mind, as well as Al Queda. But in retrospect I don't believe there were enough boots on the ground intitially. Now, whose decision that was is up for debate. Rumsfeld says all the commanders had to do was ask for more, and he says they didn't. I think marshal law should have been imposted with a strict curfew for the first couple of months, easier to sort out the trouble makers. All in all the planning for the post war appears to have been a major cock up, with intelligence failures and politics mixing in with the decision making. At any rate, the Iraqis either step up...or we step out. Maybe Sweden could send in social workers to make everyone feel good and have an opportunity for self actualization.

[Phreak101]

Are you still suprised that you guys are not meet with kisses and hugs from the local population? It never struck you that going into a country, bombing it to bits, letting its national treasuers get pilaged, making crime abudant ect would make people a bit upset? More people have died during this war than during the entire time sadam was a dictator.

You can not just wash your hands and blame the iraq people for this mess, the mess is 100% the Bush admins fault.

There is one single problem here, and it is not the US. It is the sectarian nonsense going on. Some cleric in this article blamed the occupation forces for the incident listed int he article? Why is it the fault of the US that six Sunni's were burned alive by Shi'ites? I see a lot of blaming and finger pointing w/o a lot of cooperation. How can we be expected to take these people seriously? In the same breath they blame Israel and the US for all the deaths then they praise the death of other Arabs?

This is a power struggle being led by devious men who use the US as a whipping boy to justify their attacks and rhetoric. These people need to come together as a NATION. There is ONE ultimate thing at fault here causing all the rest of this, and it is to blame for all the problems in the middle east right now....religion.

When you use God as a way to justify your cause, how can you be wrong? Don't get me wrong, the US popped the cork, but for crying out loud get your shit together!

[Kärnfysikern]

First of all, we were met with hugs and kisses from most of the population for their liberation from Saddam. Second we didn't bomb the country to bits. We did take out infrastructure, as is good strategic planning. WE make crime abundant?? That is such a stupid statement I won't respond.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the mess in Iraq. Iran and Syria are two that come to mind, as well as Al Queda. But in retrospect I don't believe there were enough boots on the ground intitially. Now, whose decision that was is up for debate. Rumsfeld says all the commanders had to do was ask for more, and he says they didn't. I think marshal law should have been imposted with a strict curfew for the first couple of months, easier to sort out the trouble makers. All in all the planning for the post war appears to have been a major cock up, with intelligence failures and politics mixing in with the decision making. At any rate, the Iraqis either step up...or we step out. Maybe Sweden could send in social workers to make everyone feel good and have an opportunity for self actualization.

So you still can not admit that the whole war was a misstake? That nothing good has come out of it and that it has been the cause of alot more deaths than sadam? I guess admiting everything but initiating the war has been a **** up is a first step...

If this becomes a full blown civil war it is your responsibility.

You did make crime abundant btw because of disarming all sadams security forces. It must have been criminal heaven for the first few months. How many national treasuers from museums hasnt been robbed?

There is one single problem here, and it is not the US. It is the sectarian nonsense going on. Some cleric in this article blamed the occupation forces for the incident listed int he article? Why is it the fault of the US that six Sunni's were burned alive by Shi'ites? I see a lot of blaming and finger pointing w/o a lot of cooperation. How can we be expected to take these people seriously? In the same breath they blame Israel and the US for all the deaths then they praise the death of other Arabs?

This is a power struggle being led by devious men who use the US as a whipping boy to justify their attacks and rhetoric. These people need to come together as a NATION. There is ONE ultimate thing at fault here causing all the rest of this, and it is to blame for all the problems in the middle east right now....religion.

When you use God as a way to justify your cause, how can you be wrong? Don't get me wrong, the US popped the cork, but for crying out loud get your shit together!

If I break into your house and crash it, can I then blame you for beeing slow in cleaning up?

I agree that there is to much fingerpointing and that the rest of the world is enjoying this mess a bit to much. Gloating is always fun.
But it aint gonna be as fun when the next generation iraqi terrorist starts to go around and bomb all western countries because of the war you started. America has pulled the entire western world into this mess.

I would like the EU to step in and do alot more when it comes to training security forces, provide resources and cash. But I dont think that will happen before the Bush admin admits the whole thing was a big stupid thing to do and that america needs the help. The bush admin has done their best to alienate all old allies. Lets se if they are man enough to admit to there own stupidity...

[Logan13]

Are you still suprised that you guys are not meet with kisses and hugs from the local population? It never struck you that going into a country, bombing it to bits, letting its national treasuers get pilaged, making crime abudant ect would make people a bit upset? More people have died during this war than during the entire time sadam was a dictator.

You can not just wash your hands and blame the iraq people for this mess, the mess is 100% the Bush admins fault.

I believe that those who refused to take part are as much to blame, as this situation effects us all. Same with Darfur, I blame everyone who has whined about it, but done nothing to help the situation. Failure/refusal to act is more of a crime than trying is. Do not even get me started on Sweden in regards to this........

[Logan13]

I agree that there is to much fingerpointing and that the rest of the world is enjoying this mess a bit to much. Gloating is always fun. Sweden has nothing to gloat over, you have done nothing to help in the war on terror. Again Johan, I point out your age..........But it aint gonna be as fun when the next generation iraqi terrorist starts to go around and bomb all western countries because of the war you started. America has pulled the entire western world into this mess. We were already is a war with radical Islam, your statement is just naive. If you are not part of the solution, you ae part of the problem Johan(Sweden).
I would like the EU to step in and do alot more when it comes to training security forces, provide resources and cash. Why doesn't Sweden step up? Could it be because your country fears an uprising from the large population of Muslims that you have allowed to infiltrate you country? ? But I dont think that will happen before the Bush admin admits the whole thing was a big stupid thing to do and that america needs the help. The bush admin has done their best to alienate all old allies. Lets se if they are man enough to admit to there own stupidity...

If only YOU had been in charge of our nation's security, all of your years of experience and knowledge would have came in very handy!........

[Logan13]

Yes Johan, I would gloat too.......
Sweden's "neutrality" in WW2
The Swedish government was forced to make concessions to Germany, such as allowing the Wehrmacht to use Swedish railways to transport an infantry division from Norway to Finland, and to transport soldiers on leave between Norway and Germany. Sweden also supplied Nazi Germany with important goods like iron ore, essential to the war effort.

However, Sweden's inability to take a stand was partly related to her geographical position (as opposed to that of Great Britain), and can also be related to what is a typical cultural tendency in Sweden: to avoid conflict and confrontation as much as possible, which for non-Swedes is and was difficult to understand. It may be noted that Britain is an Island of no tactical significance to waging war on Russia. Some comentators feel that Sweden merely ducked the great moral issues of the day, and profiteered by attempting to sell weapons and steel/steel rights to both sides.

Also, it is notable that Sweden secretly collaborated with both the Allies and the Nazis, by allowing their intelligence units to spy in Sweden. Sweden would have preferred to help the Allies, as they were opposed to some Nazi policies, but reality of the situation provided a different scenario. Sweden's choice has been the subject of much debate in Sweden.

The public's sentiments were widely published in the Swedish press, causing many protests from the German government and prompting the Swedish government to censor areas of the press on a limited basis. In Sweden, the press fell under the control of several councils, despite contemporary claims that the Swedish press was free. The Swedish Government War Information Board determined what military information was released and what information remained secret. The Swedish Press Council served as a "promotion of good relations between the press and the public authorities and to serve as an instrument of self-discipline for the press." The Press Council issued warnings, public or confidential, to those who abused the freedom of the press.

To say that Sweden had a truly free press was somewhat false. Sweden was concerned that its neutrality might run the risk of being unbalanced should its press be too vocal in its opinions. Both the Press Council and the Information Board issued comments such as "As far as the material received permits, attempts should be made not to give prominence to the reports of one side at the expense of the other", or "headlines, whether on the billboards or in the newspapers, should be worded in such a way as to avoid favouring one side or the other", and finally, "editorials and surveys as well as articles discussing military events or the military situation, should be strictly objective...".

Sweden decided to not to aid in defeating Hitler, in fact, regardless of their policy of "neutrality", they actually helped Hitler. It should therefore come as no suprise that Sweden will not help in the war on terror. And if judged by their history, if pressed, Sweden would most likely aid countries like Iran and Syria and groups such as Al Quada. Is Sweden a friend or foe to the free world......?

[Kärnfysikern]

I believe that those who refused to take part are as much to blame, as this situation effects us all. Same with Darfur, I blame everyone who has whined about it, but done nothing to help the situation. Failure/refusal to act is more of a crime than trying is. Do not even get me started on Sweden in regards to this........

So please tell me what has been the positive effects of the iraq war? Its realy realy realy hard for you to admit your country can make a misstake right? Especialy one so big and disastrous like iraq. Wasnt there a report published a few months ago that showed terrorism has markantly increased since the iraq war. Is that a part of a succesfull war on terror?

Sweden has nothing to gloat over, you have done nothing to help in the war on terror. Again Johan, I point out your age..........

Well you like to point to things that are of no importance whatsoever.....

But you must be missing that the entire world is indeed gloating right now.

We were already is a war with radical Islam, your statement is just naive. If you are not part of the solution, you ae part of the problem Johan(Sweden).

No its not a war. Its terrorism plain and simple. Not a war with terrorism. Just terrorism.

I didnt hear america claim we are at war with radical catholics when IRA blew up shit in the UK.

If it was such a horrible war, how come for most of the time muslims and christians live in peace in europe? I would expect guerilla warfare in every suburb and ghetto all through the EU if it was as bad as the bush admin wants people to think.

Why doesn't Sweden step up? Could it be because your country fears an uprising from the large population of Muslims that you have allowed to infiltrate you country?

Well then why does sweden have tropps in afghanistan? We dont step up because we opposed the iraq war from day one. Quite simple. Im sure we would join any concentrated EU effort. A small player can not do things by themself. Notice that I was all for doing it.

Yes Johan, I would gloat too.......
Sweden's "neutrality" in WW2

Nice article, got anything else that has absolutely no importance in todays world Especialy the conclusion is laughable. I guess your soon going to accuse norway and denmark aswell because after all they gave up without a strubble when the german tanks rolled in. Only a stupid man fights a fight he cant win.

The war on terror can not be won. You cant defeat a state of mind. The only thing the war on terror has done so far is to increase the split betwen the west and the muslim world.

[Logan13]

So please tell me what has been the positive effects of the iraq war? Its realy realy realy hard for you to admit your country can make a misstake right? Especialy one so big and disastrous like iraq. Wasnt there a report published a few months ago that showed terrorism has markantly increased since the iraq war. Is that a part of a succesfull war on terror?

The mistake will be if we fail in Iraq in the end. Yes, the report stated this. As did Bush state that he hoped to fight these radical in the Mideast, not in America. Guess what, that's exactly what is happening.

Well you like to point to things that are of no importance whatsoever.....
Oh, I am sorry. Do you not like talking about Sweden's past as it pertains to your current policies?

No its not a war. Its terrorism plain and simple. Not a war with terrorism. Just terrorism.
I didnt hear america claim we are at war with radical catholics when IRA blew up shit in the UK. To compare the IRA with the war on terrorism (radical islam) is, again, naive.

If it was such a horrible war, how come for most of the time muslims and christians live in peace in europe? I would expect guerilla warfare in every suburb and ghetto all through the EU if it was as bad as the bush admin wants people to think. Every major country has suffered some form of islamic terror. Where in the **** have you been over the last 10 years? Oh, that's right, you were in grade school.

Nice article, got anything else that has absolutely no importance in todays world Especialy the conclusion is laughable. I guess your soon going to accuse norway and denmark aswell because after all they gave up without a strubble when the german tanks rolled in. Only a stupid man fights a fight he cant win. Norway and Denmark did not help the Nazi's, Sweden did. Principles Johan. To try but fail is admirable, but not to try at all is simply repugnant.
The war on terror can not be won. You cant defeat a state of mind. The only thing the war on terror has done so far is to increase the split betwen the west and the muslim world.No thanks to Sweden, Johan!

Funny how YOU become defensive when your country is belittled, using your own history for my facts I might add. As George Bush Sr. recently said to a know-it-all student overseas "You need to go back to school, young man".

[Kärnfysikern]

The mistake will be if we fail in Iraq in the end. Yes, the report stated this. As did Bush state that he hoped to fight these radical in the Mideast, not in America. Guess what, that's exactly what is happening.

Well there is one thing you and me agree on. Iraq must not be allowed to sink into anarchy because that would hurt europe as much as it hurts america.
If you want to admit it or not america has dragged europe into this mess. Now europe has to act somehow. But its time for america to swallow its pride and ask "old europe" for help..

Oh, I am sorry. Do you not like talking about Sweden's past as it pertains to your current policies?

No I was refering to your remark about my age. Kind of funny that most of the population in the world was against the iraq war. I guess the avarage age of everyone not living in america is around 20 because it seems like the entire world lacks the age to make good descisions.

To compare the IRA with the war on terrorism (radical islam) is, again, naive.

Only because it doesnt fit your worldview in doing so. But to me there is zero difference. Those that commit terror acts targeting civilians in the cause of a free ireland, a free chechenia, a free palestine, a free basque or as a protest against american are all equal scum in my eyes.

Every major country has suffered some form of islamic terror. Where in the **** have you been over the last 10 years? Oh, that's right, you were in grade school.

Realy? Has anything happened in germany, france(dont confuse the riots with islamic terror), sweden, finland, norway, grece, debmark, australia, china, japan, taiwan, italy, south korea, north korea, thailand, vietnam.... If you mean that "every major country" is just spain, uk, russia and america then you might have a point.

Norway and Denmark did not help the Nazi's, Sweden did. Principles Johan. To try but fail is admirable, but not to try at all is simply repugnant

To try when you know its going to fail is stupid. Is it admirable to jump from a 20 story roof in a attempt to se if you can survive? Is it admirable to jump infront of a speeding train? Is it admirable to spit mike tyson in the face and call his mother a whore?

A sweden run by germany would have helped germany a hell of a lot more than a free sweden cooperating reluctantly. Not to mention that the jews we did harbor would have been found and throw into the ovens.

Funny how YOU become defensive when your country is belittled, using your own history for my facts I might add. As George Bush Sr. recently said to a know-it-all student overseas "You need to go back to school, young man".

Nope its not my own history its historical facts. I am not beliteling america, I am saying the bush admin did a stupid misstake. I dont try to pretend everything sweden has ever did has been right. But because sweden has done stupid things doesnt mean the iraq war was a smart thing.

The funny thing here is that I always though america was the best country in the world before the iraq war. I still think that america around ww2 before the cold war started was the best nation on earth. But nowdays america can not claim to have the moral high ground anymore. They lost it when they lied to the world in order to justify a phony war.

[Logan13]

If you want to admit it or not america has dragged europe into this mess. Now europe has to act somehow. But its time for america to swallow its pride and ask "old europe" for help..
Last I checked, Britain was in Iraq as well Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Fiji, Georgia, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, South Korea. The following countries were part of the coalition until this year: Japan, New Zealand, Philipines, Netherlands, Ukraine, Spain, Thailand, Bulgaria, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Hungary, Singapore, Norway, Portugal, Tonga, Iceland. More than just US inteligence was used before this campaign was started. But you have probably don't want to hear that....

Only because it doesnt fit your worldview in doing so. But to me there is zero difference. Those that commit terror acts targeting civilians in the cause of a free ireland, a free chechenia, a free palestine, a free basque or as a protest against american are all equal scum in my eyes. These terrorist attacks are isolated to the country in which they were born, radical islam is a world wide endeavor.

Realy? Has anything happened in germany, france(dont confuse the riots with islamic terror) Did people die because of these riots, which were carried out by muslims? YES!, sweden, finland, norway, grece, debmark, australia, china, japan, taiwan, italy, south korea, north korea, thailand, vietnam.... If you mean that "every major country" is just spain, uk, russia and america then you might have a point. You need to bone up on current events Johan, I can not be held responsible for clueing you in on EVERYTHING.....In the past 4months alone, radical Islam has killed people in the following countries:
Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Pakistan, Thailand, Algeria, India, Lebanon, Somalia, Chadm, Sudan, Ingushetia, Philiphines, Mali, Eritrea, Egypt, Indonesia, Dagestan, Ethiopia, Russia, Bangladesh, Kosovo, Turkey, Yemen, Syria, Israel. Australia embassy was bombed in Jakarta, and they foiled an attack in 2005 by taking out 16. Italy has foiled at leas 4 terrorist plots, There have been 6,772 terrorists attacks since 9/11/01. You do the research on the rest of the countries you listed, the truth is out there....

Oh, and let's not forget who is causing the mass killings in Darfur...........Hint, it's not the IRA or Christians...... It seems to me that you are speaking, as many are, about things that you clearly do not know enough about.
Check out the following websites for up-to-date information on radical islam worldwide....
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rist_incidents

[Phreak101]

BOLD

If I break into your house and crash it, can I then blame you for beeing slow in cleaning up?

[B]If being slow meant people dying because you were taking so long, then yes./B]

I agree that there is to much fingerpointing and that the rest of the world is enjoying this mess a bit to much. Gloating is always fun.
But it aint gonna be as fun when the next generation iraqi terrorist starts to go around and bomb all western countries because of the war you started. America has pulled the entire western world into this mess.

Tony Blair was just as gung ho as Bush was, and there were 40 other nations willing to send troops to the matter. Granted Bush lead this mess, but there were still plenty of nations behind him sending troops. If next generation Iraqi terrorists start bombing western countries, there isn't going to be much of the middle east left. The world is already on edge with the middle east, and as callous as it sounds, the middle east is worthless in real world terms. No inventions, no innovations, no education, no contribution to the world, no medicine, no nothing. They offer oil and headaches, nothing more. Considering they are now adding deaths around the world, I fail to see how the world will tolerate their bullshit much longer.

I would like the EU to step in and do alot more when it comes to training security forces, provide resources and cash. But I dont think that will happen before the Bush admin admits the whole thing was a big stupid thing to do and that america needs the help. The bush admin has done their best to alienate all old allies. Lets se if they are man enough to admit to there own stupidity...

Bush cannot admit it was a mistake, and in doing so now, he would show weakness towards the Islamic terrorists, and they will claim it as a win. The best we can hope for is a bi-lateral effort of the EU and the US to stabilize the situation.

All the US did was remove a madman from power. The rest has been the actions of the Iraqi people and the arabs with their own agendas. The US is NOT without fault, I cannot stress that enough, but c'mon, they are fighting over NONSENSE. It's ALL lies, corruption, and vying for power. To blame the US for all the death is just unfair. Get your sh!t together!

[mcpeepants]

What would happen if iraq was split into sunni, shiite and kurd countries?

I think that would just worsen the civil war. Issues like access to oil, the sunnis arabs would basically get screwed. Also the populations are not uniformaly distributed, so how would carve up the land so everyones happy. There is also the issue of access to the persian gulf because the sunni and kurd areas would effectively be landlocked. we can't forget about the minority christians, assyrians, turkmens, etc who are there too. an independment kurdistan, could lead to a increase the kurd seccessionist movement in Turkey and draw Turkey into the war.

[Logan13]

I think that would just worsen the civil war. Issues like access to oil, the sunnis arabs would basically get screwed. Also the populations are not uniformaly distributed, so how would carve up the land so everyones happy. There is also the issue of access to the persian gulf because the sunni and kurd areas would effectively be landlocked. we can't forget about the minority christians, assyrians, turkmens, etc who are there too. an independment kurdistan, could lead to a increase the kurd seccessionist movement in Turkey and draw Turkey into the war.

I agree. If they divided up into 3 countries, it would become like the Gaza Strip. They will fight each other, regardless, just as they have since the 7th century...........

[Kärnfysikern]

Last I checked, Britain was in Iraq as well Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Fiji, Georgia, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, South Korea. The following countries were part of the coalition until this year: Japan, New Zealand, Philipines, Netherlands, Ukraine, Spain, Thailand, Bulgaria, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Hungary, Singapore, Norway, Portugal, Tonga, Iceland. More than just US inteligence was used before this campaign was started. But you have probably don't want to hear that....

Well yes most of them had maby 10 soliders on the ground there. How many had any significant number of tropps except the UK and america?

These terrorist attacks are isolated to the country in which they were born, radical islam is a world wide endeavor.

Well to be picky they are irish and did things in the uk.

Did people die because of these riots, which were carried out by muslims? YES!,

So? You seem to have a very flimsy definition of terror.

You need to bone up on current events Johan, I can not be held responsible for clueing you in on EVERYTHING.....In the past 4months alone, radical Islam has killed people in the following countries:
Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Pakistan, Thailand, Algeria, India, Lebanon, Somalia, Chadm, Sudan, Ingushetia, Philiphines, Mali, Eritrea, Egypt, Indonesia, Dagestan, Ethiopia, Russia, Bangladesh, Kosovo, Turkey, Yemen, Syria, Israel. Australia embassy was bombed in Jakarta, and they foiled an attack in 2005 by taking out 16. Italy has foiled at leas 4 terrorist plots, There have been 6,772 terrorists attacks since 9/11/01. You do the research on the rest of the countries you listed, the truth is out there....

You try to paint the picture that all of this is organised somehow. When in reality it is just isolated nutcases causing shit all inspired by the cumstain usama.

Oh, and let's not forget who is causing the mass killings in Darfur...........Hint, it's not the IRA or Christians...... It seems to me that you are speaking, as many are, about things that you clearly do not know enough about.

Massmurder in africa isnt exactly something new.

Why are not europe swimming in blood. We have plenty of muslims and yet have nothing even close to the problem you try to claim we should have if there realy was this epedemic if muslim fanatics. How come sweden with 10% imigrants havent had one single act of terrorism ever? How come denmark didnt get blown to bits after they made fun of the prophet?

[Kärnfysikern]

Tony Blair was just as gung ho as Bush was, and there were 40 other nations willing to send troops to the matter. Granted Bush lead this mess, but there were still plenty of nations behind him sending troops. If next generation Iraqi terrorists start bombing western countries, there isn't going to be much of the middle east left. The world is already on edge with the middle east, and as callous as it sounds, the middle east is worthless in real world terms. No inventions, no innovations, no education, no contribution to the world, no medicine, no nothing. They offer oil and headaches, nothing more. Considering they are now adding deaths around the world, I fail to see how the world will tolerate their bullshit much longer.

Well blairs carrer is over and the brittish people sure didnt appriciate the iraq experiment it seems like.

Bush cannot admit it was a mistake, and in doing so now, he would show weakness towards the Islamic terrorists, and they will claim it as a win. The best we can hope for is a bi-lateral effort of the EU and the US to stabilize the situation.

The EU wont help unless bush kiss some ass. I dont think you acctualy realise how much bush has alienated all his former european allies...

All the US did was remove a madman from power. The rest has been the actions of the Iraqi people and the arabs with their own agendas. The US is NOT without fault, I cannot stress that enough, but c'mon, they are fighting over NONSENSE. It's ALL lies, corruption, and vying for power. To blame the US for all the death is just unfair. Get your sh!t together!

Would this has happened with the madman in power? Is the situation worse now then when the madman was in power? Is the world a less safe place now without the madman? yes, yes, yes.

I agree that the fighting seems to be over extremely stupid shit. But sadam contained it. The US released it. The world will pay for it.

[Logan13]

Well yes most of them had maby 10 soliders on the ground there. How many had any significant number of tropps except the UK and america? Still invalidates your statement about us going it alone.

So? You seem to have a very flimsy definition of terror. No, it seems that you do Johan.

You try to paint the picture that all of this is organised somehow. When in reality it is just isolated nutcases causing shit all inspired by the cumstain usama. It is all in the name of Allah against infidels...

Massmurder in africa isnt exactly something new. So you excuse the genocide in Darfur simply because it is being done by Muslims? I will bet that if Christians were to blame, you would be all over it. Do you even know why all of this is happening in Darfur? Do you know who is dying and who is doing the killing?

Why are not europe swimming in blood. We have plenty of muslims and yet have nothing even close to the problem you try to claim we should have if there realy was this epedemic if muslim fanatics. You didn't to any research, did you Johan....
How come sweden with 10% imigrants havent had one single act of terrorism ever? How come denmark didnt get blown to bits after they made fun of the prophet?

Because they have too much to loose over there. They do not have to even work to enjoy the spoils of your socialist system. That and the fact that you kiss their asses (i.e. your down playing of Darfur shows your obvious bias to speak against anything perpetrated by Muslims)

You can do better, you must be tired....

[Kärnfysikern]

Still invalidates your statement about us going it alone.

well acctualy I never stated that you went in alone because I know you didnt go alone. But I put the blame for the war on the bush admin. They where the one presenting the faulty evidence for wmd's. The rest just followed. I am still suprised that Blair that undoubtly is a clever politician got folled by it.

No, it seems that you do Johan

If a muslim rapes a women I bet you would call it terrorism but if a christian rapes a women you would probably call it what it is, a rape.

If a muslim knocks over a liqour store he is a fanatic islamist that hates alcohole, if a avarage joe does it he is just a robber.

We had violent riots in sweden a few years back during a big EU meeting, people died ect. No muslims involved. I would not call that terrorism. But you call the france riots terrorism.

Everytime a muslim comits a crime its fanatic islam that is the cause. To me its just another criminal scum.

It is all in the name of Allah against infidels...

Just because some stupi criminal screams allah akbar when they do stupid shit doesnt neccesarly mean they are a devout muslim or that islam is the cause. How can you blame french riots on islam when in reality it is failed imigration policy that is the cause. I dont blame islam for the high crime rates in swedish ghettoes with mainly muslim imigrants. I blame it on stupid imigration policy because we have the same situation in areas where the majority of imigrants are from the baltic states for instance.

So you excuse the genocide in Darfur simply because it is being done by Muslims? I will bet that if Christians were to blame, you would be all over it. Do you even know why all of this is happening in Darfur? Do you know who is dying and who is doing the killing?

No I dont excuse it. I dont have much to comment on it becuase I have never bothered to look up what happens in Darfur. I can admit that just like everyone else I dont pay much attention to what happens in africa. To me it doesnt matter if its muslims or christians that comit the slaughter. What is important is that it should be stopped. I judge people by the crime they commit, not by what religion they belive in.

You didn't to any research, did you Johan....

On what?

Because they have too much to loose over there. They do not have to even work to enjoy the spoils of your socialist system. That and the fact that you kiss their asses (i.e. your down playing of Darfur shows your obvious bias to speak against anything perpetrated by Muslims)

I kiss muslim ass? How many times have you seen me strongly critique the imigration policies of sweden and how imigrants refuse to adjust to swedish society. Just because I dont want to hang them outright doesnt mean I kiss there ass. Imigration has turned my small northern hometown from a nice and safe place to a criminal heaven with drug gangs and shit. I dont point the finger at muslims when I know the russians, turks ect are just as responsible. I dont label them all either because 99% of the interactions I have had with imigrants has been positive. I wont let a few criminals make me into a racist bigot.

I didnt downplay darfur, I just said that kind of shit has been going on for years by all kinds of people in africa.

You can do better, you must be tired....

Well if you want a excuse then I sure am tired

[Phreak101]

BOLD

Well blairs carrer is over and the brittish people sure didnt appriciate the iraq experiment it seems like.

How come they arent kissing EU ass then?

The EU wont help unless bush kiss some ass. I dont think you acctualy realise how much bush has alienated all his former european allies...

I do realize, but some of these same allies were selling arms to both Iraq and Iran, no one has clean hands here..

Would this has happened with the madman in power? Is the situation worse now then when the madman was in power? Is the world a less safe place now without the madman? yes, yes, yes.

Would this have happened with Sadamm in power? No one knows, it may have been worse! The world is less safe now because of the ARABS. The US dug it's nose into something it should not have, but why is the US taking the blame from the world when the obvious problem lies in the middle east. That's like blaming the police for a bunch of gang wars after arresting a kingpin. Again, Bush screwed up, but finger pointing to the US solves nothing. The world needs to unite AGAINST radical Islam and shut these psychos down. The only way they will be appeased is when they have a giant region run by Islamic law. If that could happen by bombing Sweden, they wouldnt think twice before OR after Sadamm was taken out of power.

I agree that the fighting seems to be over extremely stupid shit. But sadam contained it. The US released it. The world will pay for it.

I tire of defending this because I don't really agree with all of it. But to say Bush=America is inaccurate. Unfortunately sometimes it's hard to differentiate Bush from America. But I stand by the fact that US invasion or not, the Islmaic funds and their regimes are major cancers in the world that must be stopped.

[Kärnfysikern]

How come they arent kissing EU ass then?

The brittish people? Im not sure what you mean?

I do realize, but some of these same allies were selling arms to both Iraq and Iran, no one has clean hands here..

So did the states for a very long time so I dont se a big deal with france for instance selling arms to them. Its just buisness, france, america and russia sell arms to anyone willing to pay.

Would this have happened with Sadamm in power? No one knows, it may have been worse! The world is less safe now because of the ARABS. The US dug it's nose into something it should not have, but why is the US taking the blame from the world when the obvious problem lies in the middle east. That's like blaming the police for a bunch of gang wars after arresting a kingpin. Again, Bush screwed up, but finger pointing to the US solves nothing. The world needs to unite AGAINST radical Islam and shut these psychos down. The only way they will be appeased is when they have a giant region run by Islamic law. If that could happen by bombing Sweden, they wouldnt think twice before OR after Sadamm was taken out of power.

Most of the world agrees that the middle east is a problem. But most of the world also thinks the iraq war just made the problem worse not better.

I agree that the world needs to unite. The EU needs to step up and help in Iraq. But Im afraid it wont happen aslong as republicans are in office. For a european leader to help america right now would be political suicide. Its not a good situation, but that is fully the fault of the bush admins policies towards europes.

BOLD
I tire of defending this because I don't really agree with all of it. But to say Bush=America is inaccurate. Unfortunately sometimes it's hard to differentiate Bush from America. But I stand by the fact that US invasion or not, the Islmaic funds and their regimes are major cancers in the world that must be stopped.

Well I try to always keep the distinction that I dont like what the Bush admin has done. I am not anti american as some seem to think. But bush is a moron plain and simple. He has gotten your country into a hell of a problem and you cant expect any help from the world since bush at the same time alienated every potential ally. This whole iraq war has divided the world when it needs to be united.

Would I like to se sweden now send troops to iraq and make a major effort in training iraqi security forces? Yes I would. But the swedish people would not agree with me.

[Phreak101]

The brittish people? Im not sure what you mean?

So did the states for a very long time so I dont se a big deal with france for instance selling arms to them. Its just buisness, france, america and russia sell arms to anyone willing to pay.

Most of the world agrees that the middle east is a problem. But most of the world also thinks the iraq war just made the problem worse not better.

I agree that the world needs to unite. The EU needs to step up and help in Iraq. But Im afraid it wont happen aslong as republicans are in office. For a european leader to help america right now would be political suicide. Its not a good situation, but that is fully the fault of the bush admins policies towards europes.



Well I try to always keep the distinction that I dont like what the Bush admin has done. I am not anti american as some seem to think. But bush is a moron plain and simple. He has gotten your country into a hell of a problem and you cant expect any help from the world since bush at the same time alienated every potential ally. This whole iraq war has divided the world when it needs to be united.

Would I like to se sweden now send troops to iraq and make a major effort in training iraqi security forces? Yes I would. But the swedish people would not agree with me.

Honestly, I have a ripping headache so I'm not gonna debate. I do agree, Bush had made the world resent us, much moreso than before. The scary part is much of the world now BLAMES us for the turmoil in the middle east, even if it was that way before the invasion of Iraq.

It's gonna be an interesting life for all of us here, to say the least.