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Thread: Joe Darby is my hero . . .

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    Joe Darby is my hero . . .

    Here's the story of the guy who blew the whistle on the abuse at Abu Ghraib, Joe Darby.

    In a nutshell, he asked a guy for some pix to send to his folks, the guy said "Sure," handed him a cd to copy, the cd had all the pix you've heard about, so Darby said "Wow!" and gave 'em to the Army investigators, hoped that would be the end of things. Turns out, he's out of the Army, federal investigators discovered he wouldn't be safe living in his hometown, so he's started a new life somewhere, hoping the idiots who went to jail won't hunt him down when they get out.

    IMHO, Darby did the right thing . . . but idiots in the USA are gonna make him miserable for doing so.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Video available for a while at:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2238188.shtml

    Exposing The Truth Of Abu Ghraib
    Anderson Cooper Interviews Whistleblower Joe Darby



    (Page 1 of 4)
    Dec. 7, 2006
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Joe Darby, speaking with Anderson Cooper (CBS)


    Quote

    "I worry about the one guy who wants to get even with me, and that one guy could hurt me and my family."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    (CBS) Exposing the truth has not been easy for Joe Darby. He turned in the pictures of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib in Iraq – pictures he discovered purely by accident.

    He tells correspondent Anderson Cooper how he came upon those pictures, and how turning them in has changed his life forever – for the worse.

    Growing up in Appalachia, Joe Darby was just an ordinary Joe. He signed up to be an MP in the Army Reserve. His local unit was sent to Abu Ghraib where Darby worked in an office, while others guarded the prisoners. And then, one day when Darby wanted scenic pictures to send home, he spotted the unit’s camera buff, prison guard Charles Graner.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "So I walked up to Graner and I, you know, 'Hey do you have any pictures?' And he said 'Yeah, yeah, hold on.' Reaches into his computer bag and pulls out two CDs and just hands them to me," Darby remembers.

    Asked if he thinks Graner realized what was on these discs, Darby says, "I don't think he realized what was on, but I don't think it would have mattered either way. I knew Graner and Graner trusted me."

    That trust was about to change Darby's life forever. He copied Graner's discs and gave him back the originals. Later, when Darby looked at the photos he first saw scenic shots of Iraq, but then he came upon the pictures that launched the scandal. One of the first shots was a photo of a pyramid of naked Iraqis.

    "I didn't realize it was Iraqis at first, you know? 'Cause we lived in prison cells too," Darby says.

    At first, Darby thought the pictures were maybe of American soldiers goofing off. "I laughed. I looked at it and I laughed. And then the next photo was of Graner and England standing behind them. And I was like, 'Wait a minute. This is the prison. These are prisoners.' And then it kind of sunk in that they were doing this to prisoners. This was people being forced to do this," Darby recalls.

    Forced, Darby said, by Graner, who he called the ring leader.

    Asked what Charles Graner was like, Darby says, "If you were around him long enough you saw that he had a dark side, a morbid side."

    And a sadistic side, according to Darby, who told 60 Minutes Graner directed the abusive posing and picture taking during his night shift when he and his buddies were alone with the prisoners.

    What was going through his mind when he clicked through the photos?

    "Disbelief," Darby says. "I tried to think of a reason why they would do this, you know."

    "Well there's some who say, 'Look, this is a valuable interrogation tool,'" Cooper remarks.

    "These were MPs. Our job wasn't to interrogate prisoners," Darby says.

    "There has been testimony that some of the MPs were told to soften the prisoners up, that this was part of that," Cooper says.

    "And I've heard that. And I wasn't there. I didn't work the tier. I can't say that that didn't happen," Darby replies.

    But no matter why they were doing it, Darby knew what they were doing was wrong.

    "I've always had a moral sense of right and wrong. And I knew that you know, friends or not, it had to stop," Darby says.

    --

    Darby says his unit was close-knit, many of the members coming from similar small town backgrounds.

    Still, Darby decided he had to turn in the pictures but he didn't want his friends to know that he had done it.

    Asked why it was important to him to remain anonymous, Darby says, "I knew a lot of them wouldn't understand and would view me being a stool pigeon or however, a rat, however you want to put it."

    "You knew there would be some kind of investigation?" Cooper asks.

    "I knew these people were going to prison," Darby says. And in his opinion, they deserved to go to prison.

    Darby copied Graner's pictures onto a disc and put it in an envelope with an anonymous letter. He took the envelope to the Criminal Investigations Division —
    CID — and told them it had been left on his desk.

    "I said, 'This was left in my office. I was told to give it to the CID.' I said, 'Have a nice day, Sir,' and turned around and walked away," Darby recalls.

    Darby hoped that would be the end of it but within less than 45 minutes, the investigator came to him.

    And the investigator knew that Darby wasn't telling the truth. He promised to keep Darby's name secret, and convinced him to explain how he had really gotten those pictures. Then investigators immediately began to round up the suspects.

    "Once they were brought in, once this investigation began, were they removed from the base?" Cooper asks.

    "No," Darby says. "They still had their weapons. They still had unlimited access to the facility and me the whole time, for almost a month."

    He says he was very scared and even slept with a pistol under his pillow. "With my hand on it. I put it in my pillow case, I put my hand on it and cocked it, cocked the hammer and I'd sleep with it under my hand under my pillow," he remembers.

    He slept like this every night. "I slept in a room by myself. And anybody could come in in the middle of the night. You walk in the door, you hang a left, and then come in and cut my throat," Darby says.

    "And you really thought that could happen, someone could cut your throat?" Cooper asks.

    "I knew that if they found out who did it, they would be after me," he says.

    Weeks later, the guards under investigation were removed and Darby could finally sleep without a gun under his pillow. The suspects were gone, and his name was still secret.

    Several months later, 60 Minutes II broke the story of the pictures. An article in "The New Yorker" revealed Darby's role, though no one in Iraq seemed to notice.

    But then, while Darby was having lunch in the mess hall watching Donald Rumsfeld testify before Congress about Abu Ghraib, the defense secretary said, "There are many who did their duty professionally and we should mention that as well. First, Specialist Joseph Darby, who alerted appropriate authorities that abuses were occurring."

    "I just stopped in mid bite. I was eating and I just stopped. What the hell just happened? Now the anxiety came back. Now, I'm worried," Darby remembers. "Everyone in the unit knew within four hours."

    What was the reaction?

    "It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. You know, I got support," Darby says.

    -

    But he didn't get support back home in Cumberland, Md., a military town that felt Darby had betrayed his fellow soldiers.

    The commander of the local VFW post, Colin Engelbach, told 60 Minutes what people were calling Darby.

    "He was a rat. He was a traitor. He let his unit down. He let his fellow soldiers down and the U.S. military. Basically he was no good," Engelbach says.

    Asked if he agrees with that, Engelbach says, "I agree that his actions that he did were no good and borderline traitor, yes."

    "What he says in his defense is 'Look. I’m an MP. And this is something which was illegal,'" Cooper remarks.

    "Right. But do you put the enemy above your buddies? I wouldn’t," Engelbach replies.

    Their hometown held a vigil for members of his unit, including the accused, not however, for Joe Darby.

    "These were people who knew me since I was born. These were people who were my parents' friends, my grandparents' friends that turned against me," Darby says.

    To prevent any soldiers from retaliating against him in Iraq, the military sent Darby back to the states early, ahead of the rest of his unit.

    "I get called into my commander's office at like ten o'clock at night. He said, 'Do you have your bags packed?' I said 'Sir, we live in a tent. I always have my bags packed.' He said 'Good. Be on the flight line. In an hour you leave,'" Darby recalls.

    When Darby arrived at Dover Air Force Base, his wife Bernadette was there to meet him. He thought they would head back home, but the Army had other plans.

    An officer asked Darby what he wanted to do. "I said, 'Sir, I just want to go home. I've always just wanted to go home.' He said, 'Well son, that's not an option.' He said, 'The Army Reserve has done a security assessment of the area and it's not safe for you there. You can't go home,'" Darby remembers. "'You can probably never go home.'"

    "They said, 'If you had to choose, where would you want to live?' And you know basically where do you pick, you know? You've lived a whole life in one area," he says.

    Asked if it seemed fair to him, Darby says, "No."

    "It's not fair. That we're being punished for him doin' the right thing," his wife Bernadette adds.

    The local VFW commander told Cooper the military was right to keep Darby out of town. "Probably so. There was a lot of threats, a lotta phone calls to his wife," Engelbach remembers.

    He says there was a lot of anger in Cumberland. "‘Cause it really did put our troops in harm’s way more so than they already were," Engelbach says.

    Bernadette Darby says she heard people calling her husband a traitor, that he was a dead man and that he was walking around with a bull's eye on his head.

    To keep Joe and Bernadette safe, the military moved them to an Army base with body guards around the clock. "I couldn't go anywhere without security. Nowhere," Darby remembers.

    "Even goin' to a restaurant?" Cooper asks.

    "We walk in with, me and her and six guys?" Darby says, laughing. "And all of 'em are armed."

    Darby says he was protected by bodyguards for almost six months.

    --

    While he was a villain to his neighbors, he was a hero to people he had never met, including Caroline Kennedy and Sen. Ted Kennedy, who gave him a "Profile In Courage" award in honor of President John F. Kennedy.

    Joe left the Army recently, and he misses it. He and Bernadette miss their hometown as well. They say they'll never move back to Cumberland. Instead they've moved on, but they are still wary.

    All Darby will say is that they have started over. He doesn't want to share what he does now, where he lives or talk about his family. "I worry about the one guy who wants to get even with me," he explains. "And that one guy could hurt me and my family."

    Asked if this has made him paranoid, Darby says, "To a degree."

    And some relatives from both sides of the family have turned against him and his wife.

    Six of the seven guards involved in the abuse went to prison. Darby testified against Charles Graner. "He just gave me this stone cold evil stare, the entire time I was on the stand. Didn't take his eyes off me once," Darby recalls.

    "What was the look?" Cooper asks.

    "'You put me here. And someday I'll repay you for it,'" Darby says.

    Darby had been under a gag order until the trials ended. He gave his first interview to "GQ." And he told 60 Minutes he wants to restore his unit's honor.

    "I want people to understand that I went to Iraq with 200 of the finest servicemen I've ever seen in my life. But those 200, for the rest of their lives, their unit is gonna carry a bad name because of what seven individuals did," Darby says.

    Maj. Gen. George Fay, who investigated Abu Ghraib, told 60 Minutes that Graner and his gang took the vast majority of the pictures for their own sadistic amusement, but that in a few cases, military intelligence officers had asked the gang to soften up a prisoner. The general called Darby "courageous" for blowing the whistle.

    Darby says he didn't want the pictures leaked to the media. "I never thought it would be anything the media would get a hold of, and even if they did, I didn't think it would be as big as it was," he says.

    "Do you wish that it wasn't you who was given the CDs?" Cooper asks.

    "No, because if they had been given to somebody else, it might not have been reported," Darby says.

    "And would that have been so bad, if it had never been reported?" Cooper asks.

    "Ignorance is bliss they say but, to actually know what they were doing, you can't stand by and let that happen," Darby replies.

    "There's still a lot of people though that'll say 'Look, you know, so what they did this. You know, Saddam did things that were much worse,'" Cooper remarks.

    "We're Americans, we're not Saddam," Darby says. "We hold ourselves to a higher standard. Our soldiers hold themselves to a higher standard."

    Asked if he'd do it again, Darby says, "Yes. They broke the law and they had to be punished."

    "And it's that simple?" Cooper asks.

    "It's that simple," he replies.

  2. #2
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    So us Americans are idiots because......................

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    So us Americans are idiots because......................
    Not everyone . . . just the few who are gonna try to get revenge on Joe Darby for exposing criminal abuse in that prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Not everyone . . . just the few who are gonna try to get revenge on Joe Darby for exposing criminal abuse in that prison.
    Perhaps Joe Darby is covering his own ass.......

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    A lot worse things go on in other countries prisons than a bunch of naked pics of terrorist. We give to many rights to the criminal element of our society. Prisoners in American have better health care than almost all of us none criminals. If a prisoner here or in US custody needs an organ transplant they are automatically given priority because if they dont then the ACLU will sue what ever state or federal jursidiction that holds the person. Personally I could care less what happend there its terrible and the people involved were idoits for taking pictures and yes they created more terrorist but it pales in comparison to public stoning of women or Chinese tanks running over freedom minded students.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    A lot worse things go on in other countries prisons than a bunch of naked pics of terrorist.
    No doubt.







    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    We give to many rights to the criminal element of our society.
    Like the right to defend themselves in court? Or the right to have competant legal representation? Or the right not to be abused in jail?
    Which of the rights would you say is "too many?"









    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    Prisoners in American have better health care than almost all of us none criminals.
    I dunno about that . . .
    Here in Dallas, every now and then there's a news story of how a prisoner has suffered with some vile disease for extended periods of time, without having seen a doctor. Folks on the outside at least have the right to medical help in the county hospital -- for free, if need be.

    Anyway, about a quarter of US citizens don't have any sort of health insurance. Back when Hillary Clinton was pushing for National Health Insurance, the big multi-national company I worked for was very much in favor of her plan. They would have been in favor of just about any plan, really, because National Health Insurance would have releived them of the financial responsibility of giving their employees health insurance. I imagine most other corporations had similar outlooks.
    So . . . if you want to improve the health care for the folks in the US without any healthcare options, you might want to consider supporting politicians who favor some sort of National Health Care.







    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    If a prisoner here or in US custody needs an organ transplant they are automatically given priority
    I don't think that is true. If you have information to support your assertion, I'd like to see it.







    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    Personally I could care less what happend there its terrible and the people involved were idoits for taking pictures and yes they created more terrorist but it pales in comparison to public stoning of women or Chinese tanks running over freedom minded students.
    Nevertheless, when folks in other countries see how the Great United States, the #1 advocate for Fairness, Democracy, etc etc etc, violate the Geneva Convention and torture prisoners, we lose their respect, we lose their confidence, and we lose their trust. Once that is gone, why should they imagine that we're any better than the tyrant/despot/dictator/mullah they've already got?

    America used to be looked up to as a shining beacon of freedom all around the world. Now, George Bush's war, along with the abuse we've needlessly inflicted upon POWs, has us looking like a bunch of damm fools that can't be trusted to do the right thing, that won't abide by international agreements. Not the best position to be in, if you want to lead the rest of the world.

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    Originally Posted by Tock
    Not everyone . . . just the few who are gonna try to get revenge on Joe Darby for exposing criminal abuse in that prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    Perhaps Joe Darby is covering his own ass.......
    And then again, perhaps not.
    This thing has been investigated quite thoroughly, and if Darby was trying to hide something (like his own participation in the abuse), it would have been discovered.

    Ya, Joe Darby is my hero. He did the right thing by reporting serious criminal abuse of prisoners. Any American who would stand by and let that abuse continue, any American who would protect prison guards who torture prisoners, IMHO, those people deserve nothing more than the measure they are willing to give, particularly in light of the fact that the vast majority of those prisoners were guilty of no crime whatsoever.

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    saw this on 60 minutes. so sad he cant go back to his home town. people threatening his life who have never served. ouch. now i know why rambo flipped his lid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Originally Posted by Tock

    And then again, perhaps not.
    This thing has been investigated quite thoroughly, and if Darby was trying to hide something (like his own participation in the abuse), it would have been discovered.
    He probably had the greater good in mind, but his neighbors sure are not proud of him.........

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    I saw it on 60 min last night. I think he did the right thing. While the MPs may have been ordered to "soften up" the prisoners for interrogation, the pictures told a story that certainly extended beyond that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    He probably had the greater good in mind, but his neighbors sure are not proud of him.........
    That doesn't say much about his neighbors . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    That doesn't say much about his neighbors . . .
    I was thinking the same thing


    As I recall, this is the first time I have ever agreed with you on something....

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    I was thinking the same thing


    As I recall, this is the first time I have ever agreed with you on something....

    Joe Darby? never heard of him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    That doesn't say much about his neighbors . . .
    is he from the South?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    is he from the South?

    Appalachia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcpeepants
    Joe Darby? never heard of him.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May16.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    is he from the South?
    Cumberland, Md

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    Benedict Darby,

    By the way when you have a relative raped tortured and killed by a multiple convicted sex offender that had more rights then his victom we will see how liberal you are after that. If you dont think so try sitting in court and see the picture of what the monster did to someone you knew all your life, the hideous insanely deminted 8 hours of torture and repeated rapes. Then to hear the man recount it like she was a thing. Im through with this thread I hate getting political, I have my own life to worry about let alone the injustices we bring apon each other.

    Dont even f^cking think of asking for a source Tock for that im sure you can find it if you look hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    Benedict Darby,

    By the way when you have a relative raped tortured and killed by a multiple convicted sex offender that had more rights then his victom we will see how liberal you are after that. If you dont think so try sitting in court and see the picture of what the monster did to someone you knew all your life, the hideous insanely deminted 8 hours of torture and repeated rapes. Then to hear the man recount it like she was a thing. Im through with this thread I hate getting political, I have my own life to worry about let alone the injustices we bring apon each other.

    Dont even f^cking think of asking for a source Tock for that im sure you can find it if you look hard
    Sorry for getting you all riled up . . .
    But look, most of the guys in that prison didn't do a thing, they weren't criminals, they had not been charged with doing anything. The military just went in and rounded up a bunch of guys who they thought MIGHT have done something along with anyone else that was within earshot. They didn't get their rights read to them, they weren't told what crime they were suspected of committing, they didn't get a lawyer, nothing. And then after that, they were stripped, piled up, and humiliated. They let dogs lunge and chomp at them. They put electric wires on them, covered their eyes, and made them expect they were gonna get shocked. And more.

    This is what Darby discovered, this is what he reported, and IMHO, he did the right thing. Those abused Iraqis deserve not only apologies, but compensation, but I highly doubt they'll get either. The folks responsible for the abuse deserve loooooooooooooong jail sentences. Anyone who sympathizes with anyone who abuses prisoners, as I said before, deserves the measure they give to others. (Luke 6:38 -- . . . for with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.) Ya, let them spend some time in a Cuban jail on trumped-up charges, let them be abused under the same circumstances for a while, and see how long it takes for them to change their opinion about prisoner rights . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Sorry for getting you all riled up . . .
    But look, most of the guys in that prison didn't do a thing, they weren't criminals, they had not been charged with doing anything. The military just went in and rounded up a bunch of guys who they thought MIGHT have done something along with anyone else that was within earshot. They didn't get their rights read to them, they weren't told what crime they were suspected of committing, they didn't get a lawyer, nothing. And then after that, they were stripped, piled up, and humiliated. They let dogs lunge and chomp at them. They put electric wires on them, covered their eyes, and made them expect they were gonna get shocked. And more.

    This is what Darby discovered, this is what he reported, and IMHO, he did the right thing. Those abused Iraqis deserve not only apologies, but compensation, but I highly doubt they'll get either. The folks responsible for the abuse deserve loooooooooooooong jail sentences. Anyone who sympathizes with anyone who abuses prisoners, as I said before, deserves the measure they give to others. (Luke 6:38 -- . . . for with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.) Ya, let them spend some time in a Cuban jail on trumped-up charges, let them be abused under the same circumstances for a while, and see how long it takes for them to change their opinion about prisoner rights . . .
    They deserve no compensation, they were locked up for a reason in the first place............

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience
    Benedict Darby,

    By the way when you have a relative raped tortured and killed by a multiple convicted sex offender that had more rights then his victom we will see how liberal you are after that. If you dont think so try sitting in court and see the picture of what the monster did to someone you knew all your life, the hideous insanely deminted 8 hours of torture and repeated rapes. Then to hear the man recount it like she was a thing. Im through with this thread I hate getting political, I have my own life to worry about let alone the injustices we bring apon each other.

    Dont even f^cking think of asking for a source Tock for that im sure you can find it if you look hard
    Where does this come from, I am not familiar with what you are talking about. You obviously feel strongly about it, can you elaborate MS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    They deserve no compensation, they were locked up for a reason in the first place............
    And what was that reason?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    And what was that reason?
    You tell me Tock....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    You tell me Tock....
    No, the US gov't should have told the folks they arrested why they were arrested. But they didn't. They let 'em sit and rot in jail for months and months (and years) on end. That's the sort of thing that dictators and despots do, and when Iraqi nationals saw what the USA was doing to their citizens, of course they concluded that the US military wasn't doing them much of a favor. Pissed 'em off, too. And gave 'em plenty of reason to join anti-American organizations.

    Think about it.

    If some foreign country invaded the USA, rounded you and a bunch of other people up and put everyone in prison, didn't tell you what you did wrong, and the guards put you in a pile of naked guys and laughed while they took pictures, brought vicious dogs in to snarl at you, wouldn't you get just a little bit resentful after a couple years of this cruelty?

    Maybe, maybe not . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    No, the US gov't should have told the folks they arrested why they were arrested. But they didn't. They let 'em sit and rot in jail for months and months (and years) on end. That's the sort of thing that dictators and despots do, and when Iraqi nationals saw what the USA was doing to their citizens, of course they concluded that the US military wasn't doing them much of a favor. Pissed 'em off, too. And gave 'em plenty of reason to join anti-American organizations.

    Think about it.

    If some foreign country invaded the USA, rounded you and a bunch of other people up and put everyone in prison, didn't tell you what you did wrong, and the guards put you in a pile of naked guys and laughed while they took pictures, brought vicious dogs in to snarl at you, wouldn't you get just a little bit resentful after a couple years of this cruelty?

    Maybe, maybe not . . .
    Your assumption that all of these prisoners must be Iraqi citizens is inaccurate. These people are from all over the Mideast, therefore your invasion of USA scenario is not accurate. The Geneva convention only applies to soldiers fighting for a soveriegn country(military). There is no law that states that we must tell them anything, they know why they are there.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    If some foreign country invaded the USA, rounded you and a bunch of other people up and put everyone in prison, didn't tell you what you did wrong, and the guards put you in a pile of naked guys and laughed while they took pictures, brought vicious dogs in to snarl at you, wouldn't you get just a little bit resentful after a couple years of this cruelty?
    I'll take your previous comment as a "No."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    I'll take your previous comment as a "No."
    As I stated, your scenario is inaccurate. Give me an equitable scenario and I will give you an answer.

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