Shell = pwnt

[J.S.N.]

good to see a petro company being ****ed in the ass for once.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/art...970064,00.html

[Logan13]

good to see a petro company being ****ed in the ass for once.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/art...970064,00.html

Yeh, that will be good for the world..........
Is Short-sighted a word?

[J.S.N.]

why don't you try and explain yourself you moron? are we being "hooked up phat" by the multinational oil corp's right now? are they following environmental rules? no and no. so **** them.

[Logan13]

why don't you try and explain yourself you moron? are we being "hooked up phat" by the multinational oil corp's right now? are they following environmental rules? no and no. so **** them.

Sure, I'm the moron...Why don't you just put me back on ignore. Your bias clouds your reasoning, do you actually think it better that a country on the brink of Communism runs this over a corporation? Like somehow Russia is going to lower the prices and somehow make your life better? Russia cares nothing for the enviroment, so at best this went from bad to worse. The world is full of whiners and doers, which camp do you want to be in?

[Kärnfysikern]

Well gazprom acctualy have very good conditions for there workers according to russians. Id rather se the oild fields run by russians for russians than to se multinational cooperations taking advantage of cheap russian labor.

Doesnt matter much realy if russia is using the environmental damage as a excuse or not. Aslong as the end result is that it gets done cleaner. Gazprom cant realy go in now and make it even dirtier without it showing the hypocricy. So they will be semi forced to make it cleaner.

Buisness as usual I guess. I dont think the american goverment would like a russian company owning a major stake in resources very important for national security

Just a few days ago russia forced IKEA to close down a major and newly built store claiming IKEA had violated alot of rules when it came to building it.

The mayor of the town in question was quoted saying we swedes should not think we can go into russia, put our feet on the table and spit on the floor.

I guess the situation for big international companies in russia is going to get a bit worse...If the end result is more prosperity for russians Im all for it, if it means Putin and his KGB croonies will get a fatter bank account Im all against it.

[perfectbeast2001]

Well gazprom acctualy have very good conditions for there workers according to russians. Id rather se the oild fields run by russians for russians than to se multinational cooperations taking advantage of cheap russian labor.

Doesnt matter much realy if russia is using the environmental damage as a excuse or not. Aslong as the end result is that it gets done cleaner. Gazprom cant realy go in now and make it even dirtier without it showing the hypocricy. So they will be semi forced to make it cleaner.

Buisness as usual I guess. I dont think the american goverment would like a russian company owning a major stake in resources very important for national security

Just a few days ago russia forced IKEA to close down a major and newly built store claiming IKEA had violated alot of rules when it came to building it.

The mayor of the town in question was quoted saying we swedes should not think we can go into russia, put our feet on the table and spit on the floor.

I guess the situation for big international companies in russia is going to get a bit worse...If the end result is more prosperity for russians Im all for it, if it means Putin and his KGB croonies will get a fatter bank account Im all against it.

I respect the Russians for there dislike of cheap flat packed furniture.

[Kärnfysikern]

I respect the Russians for there dislike of cheap flat packed furniture.

lol I can sympathise with that. I hate nothing more than beeing forced to follow my girl to IKEA. I would rather burn the place down.

[J.S.N.]

if it means Putin and his KGB croonies will get a fatter bank account Im all against it.

there's little doubt that will be the case at least to some extent, but it's not like there's anywhere to go but up in terms of environmental abuses, russian workers' conditions, and end prices. go 4 it putin!

[Prada]

I personally dont like government intervention and when it comes to Putin, one must question the ulterior motive, if any.

[Snrf]

Putin is a gangster. plain and simple, you hear about the superbowl ring?

he met with the guy who owns the patriots, who showed him his superbowl ring, putin said "thats nice" put it in his pocket and left.

He also wears a 60 thousand dollar patek phillipe (more than his salary), He literally is a gangster.

[Snrf]

I'm not dissing him for it or anything mind you, I kinda respect the guy.

At least he doesn't pretend to be anything else like western politicians

[Prada]

I'm not dissing him for it or anything mind you, I kinda respect the guy.

At least he doesn't pretend to be anything else like western politicians

For some odd reason, I to respect him in a perverted way. Seems somewhat ruthless and in a perpetual search of Tsar status yet it seems to be the right person.........for now.
Yeah I agree that he does seem like some type of don always straight faced and his entourage with overt assault rifles displayed where ever he goes.

[Logan13]

Johan, I haven't seen you here much lately, you busy with classes?

[Logan13]

Putin is a gangster. plain and simple, you hear about the superbowl ring?

he met with the guy who owns the patriots, who showed him his superbowl ring, putin said "thats nice" put it in his pocket and left.

He also wears a 60 thousand dollar patek phillipe (more than his salary), He literally is a gangster.

Wow, I did not hear about this. I'll bet the owner was shitting himself though. "If I tell him No, I may have to deal with polonium....."

[J.S.N.]

Putin is a gangster. plain and simple, you hear about the superbowl ring?

he met with the guy who owns the patriots, who showed him his superbowl ring, putin said "thats nice" put it in his pocket and left.

He also wears a 60 thousand dollar patek phillipe (more than his salary), He literally is a gangster.

he's a gangster in the same way a rockafeller is. he's old party, and that's a big improvement on yeltsin, who had all kinds of criminal organizations running amok under his rule.

[Logan13]

why don't you try and explain yourself you moron? are we being "hooked up phat" by the multinational oil corp's right now? are they following environmental rules? no and no. so **** them.

Here's my proof smart guy:

Gas dispute threatens Belarus, Georgia
Financial Times.com
12/13/06

Russia is preparing to cut off natural gas supplies to neighbouring Belarus and Georgia unless the two former Soviet republics agree by the year-end to pay much higher prices in 2007.

Coming a year after Gazprom, the Russian gas giant, briefly cut gas to Ukraine in a similar pricing dispute, such a move could provoke further international criticism that Moscow is using energy as a political tool. It might also intensify pressure on Russia to ratify the European Energy Charter treaty, which would require such disagreements to be resolved through arbitration.

Action against Belarus could affect supplies to Poland and Germany since a transit pipeline runs across the republic, though it carries only a third of the volumes running through a bigger export pipeline across Ukraine. Last January, pressure in the trans-Ukrainian pipeline to western Europe dropped as a result of what Gazprom said was Ukraine “stealing” gas for its own use.

Gazprom has made clear it is prepared to reduce price increases in exchange for stakes in the republics’ gas distribution networks. It is pushing hard for 50 per cent of Beltransgaz, the Belarusian company that also controls the export pipeline across the country, although Russia and Belarus differ sharply over its value.

Dmitry Medvedev, Gazprom chairman and Russia’s first deputy prime minister, declined to comment directly to western reporters this week on whether the company was prepared to cut off supplies. But he admitted negotiations were “not easy”.

“I wouldn’t want tensions to arise,” he said.

Sergei Kuprianov, a Gazprom spokesman, told a radio station he could not exclude a cut-off to Belarus, although he added: “We would hate to see that.”

But it is understood Gazprom is preparing for a worst-case scenario if agreements are not reached.

Senior Russian officials say the increases are a move away from subsidised supplies for former Soviet republics towards transparent market pricing for all, which Gazprom hopes to achieve by 2008.

While Belarus has been happy to remain in Moscow’s orbit, western-leaning Georgia sees the threat as politically motivated. It has seen Russia sever transport and mail links in a feud and portrays the demand to double the price it pays from $110 per thousand cubic metres to $230 – close to European levels – as a matter of more than economics.

Georgian officials say that since Georgia’s gas is sourced from nearby Central Asia, it should pay less than more distant European customers.

Georgia says it can replace Russian gas with supplies from neighbouring Azerbaijan and from Iran. But as well as trying to raise prices to $230 to Azerbaijan, Russia is reducing its gas exports to the country next year, limiting Azerbaijan’s scope to re-export surpluses to Georgia.

The proposed price increase to Belarus is striking since the republic has been a close Russian ally. The fact Gazprom left prices at $47 for Belarus last January while demanding $230 from western-orientated Ukraine was seen as evidence of Russian discrimination.

This year, Russia is pushing for a four-fold increase from Belarus to $200. Analysts see the demand as punishment for the failure of Alexander Lukashenko, the authoritarian Belarus president, to deliver on promises of closer integration with Russia.

Mr Lukashenko is pressing for the same price Ukraine has agreed for next year – $130 – but economists say even that could damage the Belarusian economy.

[Kärnfysikern]

Johan, I haven't seen you here much lately, you busy with classes?

Last wensday to sunday I was gone in geneva at CERN . But not busy with classes ,fortunaly I have all my examns in the middle of january so no stress before christmas. I have spent alot of time debating a chairman of one of the biggest environmental groups in sweden though and I have spent hours and hours making sure all my claims have good and solid references.

Tomorrow Im heading for my hometown and wont have internet until the 25th, I dont know how Im going to survive that long without debating something

[Kärnfysikern]

Putin is a gangster. plain and simple, you hear about the superbowl ring?

he met with the guy who owns the patriots, who showed him his superbowl ring, putin said "thats nice" put it in his pocket and left.

He also wears a 60 thousand dollar patek phillipe (more than his salary), He literally is a gangster.

The guy has class. Everyone else buy rolex but putin knows Patek Phillipe is what its all about

For some odd reason, I to respect him in a perverted way. Seems somewhat ruthless and in a perpetual search of Tsar status yet it seems to be the right person.........for now.
Yeah I agree that he does seem like some type of don always straight faced and his entourage with overt assault rifles displayed where ever he goes.

Its hard not to respect him. He is charismatic enough to gain the support of the entire russian people, he is ruthless and cunning enough to break the power of probably some of the most dangerous men in russia(the former oligarch, all the enemies he has in the former kgb and the russian maffia). It also seems like he wants wants best for russia(while at the same time creating his own fortune) because russia is prospering and is stable. Russias foreign debt is almost paid. No one can deny he has gotten the job done.

**** if I where russian I think I would vote for him.

[Snrf]

The guy has class. Everyone else buy rolex but putin knows Patek Phillipe is what its all about

Hey you don't diss the rolex, if i could afford the patek philippe I woulda bought one. my rolex was £4590, Pateks start at around £16000!

Anyway I'm now considering pawning my yachtmaster, it seems kinda excessive now I'm a poor uni student....and everyone thinks its fake now!

[Kärnfysikern]

Hey you don't diss the rolex, if i could afford the patek philippe I woulda bought one. my rolex was £4590, Pateks start at around £16000!

My favorite watches are the old *****s from the 60's. There is a amazing constellation with black dial and the rest gold. Unfortunaly I am a poor student and cant even afford that

Rolex make damn nice watches, but rappers have ruined rolex classy reputation. Rolex is not exclusive anymore

[Snrf]

Yeah well you're studying physics or something right?

with the short supply scientists are in nowadays you'll be able to afford one when you're a lil bit older!

[J.S.N.]

again, don't embarass yourself by finding random articles to support your arbitrary viewpoint.

gazprom has supplied the ukraine with gas that is way under market value for years, and they recieve no compensation, and in face are smacked in the face for it because the ukraine taxes them to import it. now i'm no rockefeller, but i think that if the natural gas company of my state was getting gas to another state for cheaper than it got to me (which is true), then i'd say "**** the ukraine" and be all for price increases.

what should any stateget basically free gas? they're not even punishing ukraine or georgia for moving away toward NATO- they're charging belarus more too.

Here's my proof smart guy:

Gas dispute threatens Belarus, Georgia
Financial Times.com
12/13/06

Russia is preparing to cut off natural gas supplies to neighbouring Belarus and Georgia unless the two former Soviet republics agree by the year-end to pay much higher prices in 2007.

Coming a year after Gazprom, the Russian gas giant, briefly cut gas to Ukraine in a similar pricing dispute, such a move could provoke further international criticism that Moscow is using energy as a political tool. It might also intensify pressure on Russia to ratify the European Energy Charter treaty, which would require such disagreements to be resolved through arbitration.

Action against Belarus could affect supplies to Poland and Germany since a transit pipeline runs across the republic, though it carries only a third of the volumes running through a bigger export pipeline across Ukraine. Last January, pressure in the trans-Ukrainian pipeline to western Europe dropped as a result of what Gazprom said was Ukraine “stealing” gas for its own use.

Gazprom has made clear it is prepared to reduce price increases in exchange for stakes in the republics’ gas distribution networks. It is pushing hard for 50 per cent of Beltransgaz, the Belarusian company that also controls the export pipeline across the country, although Russia and Belarus differ sharply over its value.

Dmitry Medvedev, Gazprom chairman and Russia’s first deputy prime minister, declined to comment directly to western reporters this week on whether the company was prepared to cut off supplies. But he admitted negotiations were “not easy”.

“I wouldn’t want tensions to arise,” he said.

Sergei Kuprianov, a Gazprom spokesman, told a radio station he could not exclude a cut-off to Belarus, although he added: “We would hate to see that.”

But it is understood Gazprom is preparing for a worst-case scenario if agreements are not reached.

Senior Russian officials say the increases are a move away from subsidised supplies for former Soviet republics towards transparent market pricing for all, which Gazprom hopes to achieve by 2008.

While Belarus has been happy to remain in Moscow’s orbit, western-leaning Georgia sees the threat as politically motivated. It has seen Russia sever transport and mail links in a feud and portrays the demand to double the price it pays from $110 per thousand cubic metres to $230 – close to European levels – as a matter of more than economics.

Georgian officials say that since Georgia’s gas is sourced from nearby Central Asia, it should pay less than more distant European customers.

Georgia says it can replace Russian gas with supplies from neighbouring Azerbaijan and from Iran. But as well as trying to raise prices to $230 to Azerbaijan, Russia is reducing its gas exports to the country next year, limiting Azerbaijan’s scope to re-export surpluses to Georgia.

The proposed price increase to Belarus is striking since the republic has been a close Russian ally. The fact Gazprom left prices at $47 for Belarus last January while demanding $230 from western-orientated Ukraine was seen as evidence of Russian discrimination.

This year, Russia is pushing for a four-fold increase from Belarus to $200. Analysts see the demand as punishment for the failure of Alexander Lukashenko, the authoritarian Belarus president, to deliver on promises of closer integration with Russia.

Mr Lukashenko is pressing for the same price Ukraine has agreed for next year – $130 – but economists say even that could damage the Belarusian economy.

[Kärnfysikern]

Yeah well you're studying physics or something right?

with the short supply scientists are in nowadays you'll be able to afford one when you're a lil bit older!

Yupp physics. But scientists usualy dont make all that much money. But yeah Il probably buy myself a nice *****. But if I want a Patek Phillippe Il have to steal one

[J.S.N.]

Yupp physics. But scientists usualy dont make all that much money. But yeah Il probably buy myself a nice *****. But if I want a Patek Phillippe Il have to steal one

get an accounting degree and do some financial planning for tony soprano. maybe if you live frugally you could get a jaeger though. thsoe are my top 2- patek, then jaeger.

[Kärnfysikern]

get an accounting degree and do some financial planning for tony soprano. maybe if you live frugally you could get a jaeger though. thsoe are my top 2- patek, then jaeger.

Id rather star in a bukkake pornmovie as the recivier than become a accountant

[J.S.N.]

[Prada]

Id rather star in a bukkake pornmovie as the recivier than become a accountant

WTF?





Johan

[Prada]

The guy has class. Everyone else buy rolex but putin knows Patek Phillipe is what its all about



Its hard not to respect him. He is charismatic enough to gain the support of the entire russian people, he is ruthless and cunning enough to break the power of probably some of the most dangerous men in russia(the former oligarch, all the enemies he has in the former kgb and the russian maffia). It also seems like he wants wants best for russia(while at the same time creating his own fortune) because russia is prospering and is stable. Russias foreign debt is almost paid. No one can deny he has gotten the job done.

**** if I where russian I think I would vote for him.

The question really is was he just at the right place at the right time or was he really behind the success.

[Snrf]

Guy was head of the FSB, I think he makes it the right place at the right time...

Imagine being head of something like that, CIA or MI6 or FSB, you gotta know all kindsa crazy truths...

[Logan13]

good to see a petro company being ****ed in the ass for once.

Hmmm.......

Blackmail fear after Russia doubles the price of its gas
Daily Mail.UK
12/22/06

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/art...970064,00.html

Fears that Russia is using energy supplies as a political weapon increased last night after Moscow forced Georgia to accept a doubling of gas prices.

The deal came within hours of a threat by Gazprom, Russia's statecontrolled energy giant, to cut off supplies to the former Soviet republic from January 1.

Georgia had called the price increase 'unacceptable' and 'politically motivated'.

Relations between the Kremlin and Georgia's pro-West leadership were already at their worst for a decade after a spy row in September.

The Georgia 'agreement' is another example of what alarmed EU officials see as the Kremlin's heavy-handed tactics in dealing with energy clients.

It came the day after Gazprom took control of a massive oil and gas project from Royal Dutch Shell, which had suffered a long campaign of bureaucratic harassment.

Gazprom has 25 per cent of the EU gas market and is aiming for 33 per cent by 2010. The company is also investing in distribution as well as supply.

In the UK, it bought Pennine Natural Gas, a small marketing company, this summer, and there is speculation that it wants to take over Centrica, the owner of British Gas.

While Gazprom insists its motives are commercial, critics say it often acts as a political instrument for Russian president Vladimir Putin.

European analysts said it was clear Russia had used threats against Georgia. Turkey was also said to have been warned not to help the Georgians.

'These signs are all very worrying,' said one EU diplomat in Brussels last night. 'They show Moscow has no qualms in wielding the big stick if it does not get what it wants.' A similar price rise demand led to massive cuts in Russian supplies to Ukraine in January.

This also reduced the amount of Russian gas reaching Europe, prompting some European leaders to question the continent's reliance on Russia as its major supplier.

Gazprom is still involved in a dispute with Belarus, which serves as a transit route for Russian gas to Poland and Germany.

It said yesterday it hopes to solve the wrangle - over prices and control of pipelines - by December 31.

Though the Russians said Georgia had agreed to the new prices for a year, Georgia's prime minister Zurab Nogaideli said it would be for only three months. He said Georgia had planned to import more gas from Azerbaijan, but this had been delayed for several weeks due to technical problems.

'We are forced to buy from Russia; it is just a short-term solution,' he told a news conference in the capital, Tbilisi.

Georgia has also been hoping it can take some of the gas Azerbaijan currently supplies to Turkey.

President Mikhail Saakashvili went to Ankara this week to try to persuade Turkish leaders to agree, but without apparent success.

Turkey receives most of its gas from Russia and an industry source in Moscow said: 'Turkey has been told it would not get additional gas and could face price increases if it decided to help Tbilisi.'

[3Vandoo]

This makes me laugh and I am not surprised

Many months ago in the forbe's magasine, they were interviewing a former soviet expat, who works in oil industry and he had invested billion in russia, to see all his investment getting ****ed over by the russian government.

Unfortunately, it is not the russian government who are getting it, but friends of poutine. Some millionaires who were not able to jump on the russian oil bandwagon. These ****s lobbied to poutine to seize assets of american capitals in the oil business.

Anyone remember my post about this....

I dont give long, that in some time we will either see a coup d etat or poutine will get the hammer.