Tens of thousands demand Iraq withdrawal

[mcpeepants]

Tens of thousands demand Iraq withdrawal

By CALVIN WOODWARD and LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writers 30 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Convinced this is their moment, tens of thousands marched Saturday in an anti-war demonstration linking military families, ordinary people and an icon of the Vietnam protest movement in a spirited call to get out of
Iraq.
ADVERTISEMENT

Celebrities, a half-dozen lawmakers and protesters from distant states rallied in the capital under a sunny sky, seizing an opportunity to press their cause with a Congress restive on the war and a country that has turned against the conflict.

Marching with them was Jane Fonda, in what she said was her first anti-war demonstration in 34 years.

"Silence is no longer an option," Fonda said to cheers from the stage on the National Mall. The actress once derided as "Hanoi Jane" by conservatives for her stance on Vietnam said she had held back from activism so as not to be a distraction for the Iraq anti-war movement, but needed to speak out now.

The rally on the Mall unfolded peacefully, although about 300 protesters tried to rush the Capitol, running up the grassy lawn to the front of the building. Police on motorcycles tried to stop them, scuffling with some and barricading entrances.

Protesters chanted "Our Congress" as their numbers grew and police faced off against them. Demonstrators later joined the masses marching from the Mall, halfway around Capitol Hill and back.

United for Peace and Justice, a coalition group sponsoring the protest, had hoped 100,000 would come. Police, who no longer give official estimates, said privately the crowd was smaller than that.

At the rally, 12-year-old Moriah Arnold stood on her toes to reach the microphone and tell the crowd: "Now we know our leaders either lied to us or hid the truth. Because of our actions, the rest of the world sees us as a bully and a liar."

The sixth-grader from Harvard, Mass., organized a petition drive at her school against the war that has killed more than 3,000 U.S. service-members.

More Hollywood celebrities showed up at the demonstration than buttoned-down Washington typically sees in a month.

Actor Sean Penn said lawmakers will pay a price in the 2008 elections if they do not take firmer action than to pass a nonbinding resolution against the war, the course Congress is now taking.

"If they don't stand up and make a resolution as binding as the death toll, we're not going to be behind those politicians," he said. Actors Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins also spoke.

Fonda was a lightning rod in the Vietnam era for her outspoken opposition to that war and her advocacy from Hanoi at the height of that conflict. Sensitive to the old wounds, she made it a point to thank the active-duty service-members, veterans and Gold Star mothers who attended the rally.

She drew parallels to the Vietnam War, citing "blindness to realities on the ground, hubris ... thoughtlessness in our approach to rebuilding a country we've destroyed." But she noted that this time, veterans, soldiers and their families increasingly and vocally are against the Iraq war.

The
House Judiciary Committee chairman, Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), threatened to use congressional spending power to try to stop the war. "
George Bush has a habit of firing military leaders who tell him the Iraq war is failing," he said, looking out at the masses. "He can't fire you." Referring to Congress, the Michigan Democrat added: "He can't fire us.

"The founders of our country gave our Congress the power of the purse because they envisioned a scenario exactly like we find ourselves in today. Now only is it in our power, it is our obligation to stop Bush."

On the stage rested a coffin covered with a U.S. flag and a pair of military boots, symbolizing American war dead. On the Mall stood a large bin filled with tags bearing the names of Iraqis who have died.

A small contingent of active-duty service members attended the rally, wearing civilian clothes because military rules forbid them from protesting in uniform.

Air Force Staff Sgt. Tassi McKee, 26, an intelligence specialist at Fort Meade, Md., said she joined the Air Force because of patriotism, travel and money for college. "After we went to Iraq, I began to see through the lies," she said.

In the crowd, signs recalled the November elections that defeated the Republican congressional majority in part because of
President Bush's Iraq policy. "I voted for peace," one said.

"I've just gotten tired of seeing widows, tired of seeing dead Marines," said Vincent DiMezza, 32, wearing a dress Marine uniform from his years as a sergeant. A Marine aircraft mechanic from 1997 to 2002, he did not serve in Iraq or
Afghanistan.

About 40 people staged a counter-protest, including Army Cpl. Joshua Sparling, 25, who lost his leg to a bomb in Iraq.

He said the anti-war protesters, especially those who are veterans or who are on active duty, "need to remember the sacrifice we have made and what our fallen comrades would say if they are alive."

Bush reaffirmed his commitment to his planned troop increase in a phone conversation Saturday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. The president was in Washington for the weekend. He is often is out of town during big protest days.

"He understands that Americans want to see a conclusion to the war in Iraq and the new strategy is designed to do just that," said Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council.

___

Associated Press writers Stephen Manning and Kasie Hunt contributed to this report.

[BgMc31]

gotta question their partriotism!!! LOL!!!!

[king6]

There must have been nothing good on TV that day.

[RA]

Always going to be hippies that the warriors have to protect.

[Ufa]

I think things would fall into line if Bush sent his 2 daughter's to battle.

[Logan13]

I think things would fall into line if Bush sent his 2 daughter's to battle.

I think that things would fall in line if everyone stopped using war as a political tool and started concentrating on how to win.

[scriptfactory]

I think that things would fall in line if everyone stopped using war as a political tool and started concentrating on how to win.

Not even win. How about how to withdraw without f-cking the Iraqi people?

[Logan13]

Not even win. How about how to withdraw without f-cking the Iraqi people?

I do not think that is possible script, they would be in a true civil war if that happens. These people have fought with each other about who was the dominant son of Muhammad since the 6th century and they will continue to do so.

[scriptfactory]

I do not think that is possible script, they would be in a true civil war if that happens. These people have fought with each other about who was the dominant son of Muhammad since the 6th century and they will continue to do so.

That's what I was trying to say. We can't just pull out of there now or the situation would get drastically worse...

[Logan13]

Tens of thousands demand Iraq withdrawal

By CALVIN WOODWARD and LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writers 30 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Convinced this is their moment, tens of thousands marched Saturday in an anti-war demonstration linking military families, ordinary people and an icon of the Vietnam protest movement in a spirited call to get out of
Iraq.
ADVERTISEMENT

Celebrities, a half-dozen lawmakers and protesters from distant states rallied in the capital under a sunny sky, seizing an opportunity to press their cause with a Congress restive on the war and a country that has turned against the conflict.

Marching with them was Jane Fonda, in what she said was her first anti-war demonstration in 34 years.

"Silence is no longer an option," Fonda said to cheers from the stage on the National Mall. The actress once derided as "Hanoi Jane" by conservatives for her stance on Vietnam said she had held back from activism so as not to be a distraction for the Iraq anti-war movement, but needed to speak out now.

The rally on the Mall unfolded peacefully, although about 300 protesters tried to rush the Capitol, running up the grassy lawn to the front of the building. Police on motorcycles tried to stop them, scuffling with some and barricading entrances.

Protesters chanted "Our Congress" as their numbers grew and police faced off against them. Demonstrators later joined the masses marching from the Mall, halfway around Capitol Hill and back.

United for Peace and Justice, a coalition group sponsoring the protest, had hoped 100,000 would come. Police, who no longer give official estimates, said privately the crowd was smaller than that.

At the rally, 12-year-old Moriah Arnold stood on her toes to reach the microphone and tell the crowd: "Now we know our leaders either lied to us or hid the truth. Because of our actions, the rest of the world sees us as a bully and a liar."

The sixth-grader from Harvard, Mass., organized a petition drive at her school against the war that has killed more than 3,000 U.S. service-members.

More Hollywood celebrities showed up at the demonstration than buttoned-down Washington typically sees in a month.

Actor Sean Penn said lawmakers will pay a price in the 2008 elections if they do not take firmer action than to pass a nonbinding resolution against the war, the course Congress is now taking.

"If they don't stand up and make a resolution as binding as the death toll, we're not going to be behind those politicians," he said. Actors Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins also spoke.

Fonda was a lightning rod in the Vietnam era for her outspoken opposition to that war and her advocacy from Hanoi at the height of that conflict. Sensitive to the old wounds, she made it a point to thank the active-duty service-members, veterans and Gold Star mothers who attended the rally.

She drew parallels to the Vietnam War, citing "blindness to realities on the ground, hubris ... thoughtlessness in our approach to rebuilding a country we've destroyed." But she noted that this time, veterans, soldiers and their families increasingly and vocally are against the Iraq war.

The
House Judiciary Committee chairman, Rep. John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), threatened to use congressional spending power to try to stop the war. "
George Bush has a habit of firing military leaders who tell him the Iraq war is failing," he said, looking out at the masses. "He can't fire you." Referring to Congress, the Michigan Democrat added: "He can't fire us.

"The founders of our country gave our Congress the power of the purse because they envisioned a scenario exactly like we find ourselves in today. Now only is it in our power, it is our obligation to stop Bush."

On the stage rested a coffin covered with a U.S. flag and a pair of military boots, symbolizing American war dead. On the Mall stood a large bin filled with tags bearing the names of Iraqis who have died.

A small contingent of active-duty service members attended the rally, wearing civilian clothes because military rules forbid them from protesting in uniform.

Air Force Staff Sgt. Tassi McKee, 26, an intelligence specialist at Fort Meade, Md., said she joined the Air Force because of patriotism, travel and money for college. "After we went to Iraq, I began to see through the lies," she said.

In the crowd, signs recalled the November elections that defeated the Republican congressional majority in part because of
President Bush's Iraq policy. "I voted for peace," one said.

"I've just gotten tired of seeing widows, tired of seeing dead Marines," said Vincent DiMezza, 32, wearing a dress Marine uniform from his years as a sergeant. A Marine aircraft mechanic from 1997 to 2002, he did not serve in Iraq or
Afghanistan.

About 40 people staged a counter-protest, including Army Cpl. Joshua Sparling, 25, who lost his leg to a bomb in Iraq.

He said the anti-war protesters, especially those who are veterans or who are on active duty, "need to remember the sacrifice we have made and what our fallen comrades would say if they are alive."

Bush reaffirmed his commitment to his planned troop increase in a phone conversation Saturday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. The president was in Washington for the weekend. He is often is out of town during big protest days.

"He understands that Americans want to see a conclusion to the war in Iraq and the new strategy is designed to do just that," said Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council.

___

Associated Press writers Stephen Manning and Kasie Hunt contributed to this report.

Ah yes, Jane Fonda......... I'm sure that we will get some great photos of her embracing Almenajad or Bin Laden any day now as well.

[mcpeepants]

shia and sunni have also been living together and intermarrying for over a thousand years. they don't have predisposition for fighting any more than the french and the english. they'll be times of peace and fighting, unfortunately right now their fighting.

[RA]

shia and sunni have also been living together and intermarrying for over a thousand years. they don't have predisposition for fighting any more than the french and the english. they'll be times of peace and fighting, unfortunately right now their fighting.

Thats what I thought until I read something causasian posted. Ill do a search.

[BrassBolt]

let them kill each other who really gives a shit . Less people to feed in this world .

[BgMc31]

I do not think that is possible script, they would be in a true civil war if that happens. These people have fought with each other about who was the dominant son of Muhammad since the 6th century and they will continue to do so.

They are already in a civil war and until we recognize that fact then we won't win. War is always used as a political tool. It's just sold to the masses as a benevolent option.

[Logan13]

They are already in a civil war and until we recognize that fact then we won't win. War is always used as a political tool. It's just sold to the masses as a benevolent option.

If the military's hands were untied, we would not even be having this conversation...........

[Ufa]

If the military's hands were untied, we would not even be having this conversation...........

Logan just curious as to what we are going to win? I mean that's
all I hear is WIN. Win what? These people have been told what
to do by religious leaders for hundreds of years. Do you expect them
to understand freedom. They want to kill their own who don't agree
on authorized behavior.

[Logan13]

Logan just curious as to what we are going to win? I mean that's
all I hear is WIN. Win what? These people have been told what
to do by religious leaders for hundreds of years. Do you expect them
to understand freedom. They want to kill their own who don't agree
on authorized behavior.

Please understand that I am not happy with the results of this war. It has become political fodder for the far left(including the news media) to the point where I truely believe that many in this country actually have a vested interest in the US losing in Iraq. No one can instill values in a population that has no interest in carrying them out, these people are blinded by their religion.
My idea of "winning" would be to install a strong, religiously-neutral gov't in Iraq while building their military and law-enforcment troops up.
This is not an easy task as you have rightly pointed out, but it can be done if the right people are put in charge and given the time. Do I think that this will happen......NO! The left in this country sees that by the US failing in Iraq, they hope to reach power in 2008. Make no mistake about it, this is their agenda and they will fight against the successes of their own country to achieve it! The Iraqi people are not ready for democracy, and if they will not pull their weight in reaching this goal, then there is nothing that anyone can do for them in the short-term. I really believe that it would take 10-15 years of occupation to help them achieve this goal, at which time today's youth who were given the opportunity to live in freedom, would become adults and want a free and democratic gov't for their futures.
It truely is a sad state of affairs when the Jane Fondas of this country are shown as the good guys in this situation. She was a treasonous bitch during Vietnam and it makes me sick to see her at the podium......again. Winning in Iraq is one thing, but if we loose, all hell will break loose over there and such an enviroment will only fuel the next "bin laden" to carry out escalated attacks on the free countries of this world in the future. There really is more at stake than just winning.

[dhriscerr]

I dont know what we should do??? Hopefully the new president can figure it out.

[Ufa]

You are right about the demonstrations. It is a sign of weakness.
To me it seem like the whole middle east is joined at the hip and
have plenty of money. They will pump the oil if thats what you
are worried about. I could care less if they all kill each other and
burn in hell. I don't think we have any thing to loose.

If it were me I would take them all on. Have Israel use tack nukes on
Iran and defend their backs. Shock and awe if any one else gets
involved. I would take their oil like a pirate. They would be
living in the stone age if I had my way.

[Logan13]

Logan just curious as to what we are going to win? I mean that's
all I hear is WIN. Win what? These people have been told what
to do by religious leaders for hundreds of years. Do you expect them
to understand freedom. They want to kill their own who don't agree
on authorized behavior.

I would like to add that oil was not the reason for going to war, there is zero evidence to support such a claim. I have not seen any surplus oil barrels rolling into this country, have you? I truely like Bush, he is a man of conviction who does not make policy on foreign opinions. We do not need a weak president in a time of war, and trust me, the war will not only be in Iraq. Terrorism will continue to haunt this country, regardless of the war in Iraq. But what all free countries of this earth do not need is to have created another breading ground for would-be terrorists. And if we left tomorrow, that is exactly what would happen. And trust me on this, they won't be coming for Bush or Pelosi, they will be coming for you, me, and our families. For no other reason than Jihad in the name of their twisted view of Islam. So.....what are we going to do about it, and what are we willing to do about it?

[Logan13]

You are right about the demonstrations. It is a sign of weakness.
To me it seem like the whole middle east is joined at the hip and
have plenty of money. They will pump the oil if thats what you
are worried about. I could care less if they all kill each other and
burn in hell. I don't think we have any thing to loose.

If it were me I would take them all on. Have Israel use tack nukes on
Iran and defend their backs. Shock and awe if any one else gets
involved. I would take their oil like a pirate. They would be
living in the stone age if I had my way.

I would do anything possible to circumvent the probable outcome of this situation, for both our citizens and our military if I were Bush. I do believe that he is now positioning the US just in case Iran raises the stakes, and if they do, Israel will be in on it. I do not want millions dead in the middle east, but we all know that they would love to see millions dead in the USA. If we continue to cater to them, let them use our own laws and freedoms against us, than we are not going to fair very well in the future. These people have banded together to wage war with us. I fear that many in this country are not strong enough to band together under the stars and stripes to fight them off!

[Ufa]

I would do anything possible to circumvent the probable outcome of this situation, for both our citizens and our military if I were Bush. I do believe that he is now positioning the US just in case Iran raises the stakes, and if they do, Israel will be in on it. I do not want millions dead in the middle east, but we all know that they would love to see millions dead in the USA. If we continue to cater to them, let them use our own laws and freedoms against us, than we are not going to fair very well in the future. These people have banded together to wage war with us. I fear that many in this country are not strong enough to band together under the stars and stripes to fight them off!

Excellent! However, I disagree, shock and awe, we will be glued to
our TV's this could happen and be over with. God had turned his
back of them hundreds of years ago. They are so interlaced that
I personally could care less how many of them die. What counts
is the World at Peace with out some nit wit taped with syntax or
C-4. The Iran govt is behind Hes and IED's you name it. Saudi
supports the Suni. I just want to go back in time when we can
all live with out Super Security and not feel threatened.

[Logan13]

Excellent! However, I disagree, shock and awe, we will be glued to
our TV's this could happen and be over with. God had turned his
back of them hundreds of years ago. They are so interlaced that
I personally could care less how many of them die. What counts
is the World at Peace with out some nit wit taped with syntax or
C-4. The Iran govt is behind Hes and IED's you name it. Saudi
supports the Suni. I just want to go back in time when we can
all live with out Super Security and not feel threatened.

Before I read your last line, I was going to respond by saying something like that! The 90's were a nice break from the Cold War!

[Kärnfysikern]

Installing slip protection in every bathtub in america would save more lifes than going after radical islamists in the middle east...

[Kärnfysikern]

You are right about the demonstrations. It is a sign of weakness.
To me it seem like the whole middle east is joined at the hip and
have plenty of money. They will pump the oil if thats what you
are worried about. I could care less if they all kill each other and
burn in hell. I don't think we have any thing to loose.

If it were me I would take them all on. Have Israel use tack nukes on
Iran and defend their backs. Shock and awe if any one else gets
involved. I would take their oil like a pirate. They would be
living in the stone age if I had my way.

Nothing to lose? Pakistan dont fit into that scenario. Start dropping nukes on the middle east and pakistan will be dropping nukes on someone else and then we have a nuclear holocaust on our hands, with a inevitable huge economic depression, quite probably a big impact on the climate for a few years, not to mention supplies of oil cut off makes the entire world grind to a slow stop.

It would lead to desperate times and desperate people do desperate things in desperate times.

[Peducho0113]

All I can say is that GOD bless our troops in middleeast and I hope they all come back home safe. I am not Pro War, but since we are on war now, I hope everything resolves soon and may all our brothers and sisters come back home safe

[mcpeepants]

I would like to add that oil was not the reason for going to war, there is zero evidence to support such a claim. I have not seen any surplus oil barrels rolling into this country, have you? I truely like Bush, he is a man of conviction who does not make policy on foreign opinions. We do not need a weak president in a time of war, and trust me, the war will not only be in Iraq. Terrorism will continue to haunt this country, regardless of the war in Iraq. But what all free countries of this earth do not need is to have created another breading ground for would-be terrorists. And if we left tomorrow, that is exactly what would happen. And trust me on this, they won't be coming for Bush or Pelosi, they will be coming for you, me, and our families. For no other reason than Jihad in the name of their twisted view of Islam. So.....what are we going to do about it, and what are we willing to do about it?

Bush said leaving oil in the hands of terrorist or something like that recently. I'll look for the quote and post it. Oil wasn't the big reason for going to war but it played a part.

[mcpeepants]

I would like to add that oil was not the reason for going to war, there is zero evidence to support such a claim. I have not seen any surplus oil barrels rolling into this country, have you? I truely like Bush, he is a man of conviction who does not make policy on foreign opinions. We do not need a weak president in a time of war, and trust me, the war will not only be in Iraq. Terrorism will continue to haunt this country, regardless of the war in Iraq. But what all free countries of this earth do not need is to have created another breading ground for would-be terrorists. And if we left tomorrow, that is exactly what would happen. And trust me on this, they won't be coming for Bush or Pelosi, they will be coming for you, me, and our families. For no other reason than Jihad in the name of their twisted view of Islam. So.....what are we going to do about it, and what are we willing to do about it?

This is from Bush's speech to the nation about the troop surge on Jan 10 2007

The consequences of failure are clear: Radical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions.

source:http://uspolitics.about.com/od/warin...q_2007_jan.htm

I think I also heard him or Cheney say something similar. If I can find the quote, i'll post it.

[Logan13]

This is from Bush's speech to the nation about the troop surge on Jan 10 2007

The consequences of failure are clear: Radical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions.

source:http://uspolitics.about.com/od/warin...q_2007_jan.htm

I think I also heard him or Cheney say something similar. If I can find the quote, i'll post it.

All that I can say is "so"? That is a clear and present danger, they(Iran) gain control of Iraqi oil and they can manipulate the market. Do you not understand the economic impact of such a scenario? Iran wants Iraq, and oil does play a big part in that.

[Logan13]

Installing slip protection in every bathtub in america would save more lifes than going after radical islamists in the middle east...

3000 people/year do not die from slipping in bathtubs, and quite frankly, I expected more of a logical answer from you johan.

[Kärnfysikern]

3000 people/year do not die from slipping in bathtubs, and quite frankly, I expected more of a logical answer from you johan.

3000 people a year die from terrorist in the united states each year? That was something new to me.

Ok lets take something more serious.

Getting rid of drunk drivers would save more lifes than fighting terrorism.

Getting rid of polution would defenetly save more people. It causes tens of thousands of premature deaths.

Cleaning out radon from buildings would save more lifes. It kills over 200 people each year in sweden so I guess its atleast 10 times as many over there.

Cleaning up the food in school will possibly prevent thousands of premature deaths caused by obesity.

But none of those things are offcourse as sexy as terrorism. Neither to the media or to the authorities.

[Logan13]

3000 people a year die from terrorist in the united states each year? That was something new to me.

Ok lets take something more serious.

Getting rid of drunk drivers would save more lifes than fighting terrorism.

Getting rid of polution would defenetly save more people. It causes tens of thousands of premature deaths.

Cleaning out radon from buildings would save more lifes. It kills over 200 people each year in sweden so I guess its atleast 10 times as many over there.

Cleaning up the food in school will possibly prevent thousands of premature deaths caused by obesity.

But none of those things are offcourse as sexy as terrorism. Neither to the media or to the authorities.

So you are saying that terrorism is not an issue alive and well in the world today than? Terrorism is murder, and there is nothing sexy about that. IMO, You personally do not like terrorism to be treated as an issue because it requires military action. It is an unfortunate fact of life Johan, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Here is a link that shows every terrorist attack in the world for 2006. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2006.htm

[Kärnfysikern]

So you are saying that terrorism is not an issue alive and well in the world today than? Terrorism is murder, and there is nothing sexy about that. IMO, You personally do not like terrorism to be treated as an issue because it requires military action. It is an unfortunate fact of life Johan, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Here is a link that shows every terrorist attack in the world for 2006. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2006.htm

Terrorism has been alive and well for a LONG time. Red brigades, IRA, red army faction, ETA, Japanese Red Army the list just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on. You cant win a war against terror. Has any one of those organisations been brought down by the military?

What I am saying is that terrorism as a threat to the avarage joe is WAY overblown. There are bigger threats to the world that needs more attention.

Polution, famine, hiv, disease, malaria ect. All the money wasted down the war on terror drain could have been used in ways that would save far more lifes.

[Logan13]

Terrorism has been alive and well for a LONG time. Red brigades, IRA, red army faction, ETA, Japanese Red Army the list just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on. You cant win a war against terror. Has any one of those organisations been brought down by the military?

What I am saying is that terrorism as a threat to the avarage joe is WAY overblown. There are bigger threats to the world that needs more attention.

Polution, famine, hiv, disease, malaria ect. All the money wasted down the war on terror drain could have been used in ways that would save far more lifes.

This is why we do not make US policy based on other countries opinions. None of the factions you listed above are religiously based, and if you do not think that this makes a difference than you truely are sheltered up there........

[Kärnfysikern]

This is why we do not make US policy based on other countries opinions. None of the factions you listed above are religiously based, and if you do not think that this makes a difference than you truely are sheltered up there........

What is important to me is how many die and what can be done to prevent those deaths. If the bottom line is to save lifes that is.

It doesnt matter to me if the killer is a malaria mosqitoe or al-qaida nutcase.

If a religious nutcase kills you does that make you more dead than if you starve to death? Fanatic ideas are beaten by education. Not by arms.

Arms might be needed in order to ensure education though. But only if the country in question is willing to learn.

[Kärnfysikern]

You also didnt state how you think military action will win a war on terror? can you bomb a idea untill it disaperes? Can you shoot and kill faith?

[Kärnfysikern]

Offcourse the denazification of germany is a example that fanatism can be forced away. But for that germany had to be reduced to nothing but bombed out cities and then denazified.

Not to mention the germans pre ww2 was far more educated and civilised than the avarage middle eastern country, making it easier.

So is any coallition willing to do what was done to germany but instead on the entire middle east?

[Logan13]

What is important to me is how many die and what can be done to prevent those deaths. If the bottom line is to save lifes that is.

It doesnt matter to me if the killer is a malaria mosqitoe or al-qaida nutcase.

If a religious nutcase kills you does that make you more dead than if you starve to death? Fanatic ideas are beaten by education. Not by arms.

Arms might be needed in order to ensure education though. But only if the country in question is willing to learn.

terrorism's aim is more than death, it is terror. If you can't connect the two, just look at Israel's walls and the ever changing laws here in the US that definitely effect everyone's life on a daily basis. Tunnel vision can not be corrected with glasses Johan..........

[Kärnfysikern]

terrorism's aim is more than death, it is terror. If you can't connect the two, just look at Israel's walls and the ever changing laws here in the US that definitely effect everyone's life on a daily basis. Tunnel vision can not be corrected with glasses Johan..........

Terrorism works because the population gets fooled into thinking there exist is a realistisc risk.
In reality the risk is so miniscule that it is neglible compared to everyday risk like driving a car or walking over the street.
If people realised this then terrorism wouldnt work, there would be no terror.

How do you propose to win the war on terror? Like I said above, can you shoot faith or kill a idea?

[Logan13]

Terrorism works because the population gets fooled into thinking there exist is a realistisc risk.
In reality the risk is so miniscule that it is neglible compared to everyday risk like driving a car or walking over the street.
If people realised this then terrorism wouldnt work, there would be no terror.

How do you propose to win the war on terror? Like I said above, can you shoot faith or kill a idea?

It's kind of funny that you are telling the rest of the world not to fear terrorism, being from Sweden and all. I'll bet that you would have told us not to fear Hitler either pre-WW2, since your country sat that one out as well. Hitler was an idea, and we did kill him and his cause, even without Sweden's help................