Jewish Influence In America

[Logan13]

my point was, when companies like del monte or nike keep workers in slavelike conditions, the neocon's last arguement (their trump card) is "hey man we're for americans, not mexicans/chinese/malaysians/whomever" yet they'll never suggest that israelis be exploited in such a way, because of the pro-israeli lobby pressure ($$$$). our politicians give them our money and fight their wars for them and what do we get in return? we don't use their bases for military action, we don't get oil from them, and they destabilize the region.


personally i don't advocate exploiting anyone in a way that makes their lives miserable; i'm just pointing out an inconsistency in the neoconservative worldview.

This is a whole other arguement. These companies that operate outside of the US in order to pay "slave-wages" should be tariffed like hell on whatever products that they try to send back into the US for distribution. It is all viewed now as the "global economy", not just by republicans. I do believe that because of the Unions, many companies have moved outside the US in order to avoid these higher wages. A good wage is fair, but the Union wages are simply crazy. Concrete finishers in Illinois start out at $29/hour ($60k/year) + it cost his employer another $30-45/hour in premiums. Can anyone sincerely tell me that this is a fair wage? Makes going to college seem silly, doesn't it. When you put a strangle hold on business, it gives businesses a reason to leave for operations outside of the US.

[givemethejuice]

This pretty much summarizes it. Jews are very elitist and separatist. They are extremely exclusionary when it comes to non-jews. And it is not a 'perception' that they feel superior to non-jews, it is a very real fact of their existence. Don't anyone think for a moment that 'goy' is used in a flattering manner/context by jews. Jews will not allow non-jews to stand equal and equivalent with themselves, we (goyim) are not deserving.

I don't give a rats ass what they have, I care in how they go about it. They will only spend their money amongst themselves, but will go to great lengths to make their money off of non-jews.

There is no such thing as the 'chosen people', there is no such thing as a jewish race, there is no such thing as jewish superiority. Every person born upon this planet is born equally without limitation and without superiority.

And to speak out on these issues does not mean that the person is an anti-semite, or jew hater.

And Arabs are not separatist! I thought if you were not muslim, than you were an infidel. Jews might have their own culture, but at least if I am not Jew, than I don't have to worry about a jew trying to kill me.

[spywizard]

This is a whole other arguement. These companies that operate outside of the US in order to pay "slave-wages" should be tariffed like hell on whatever products that they try to send back into the US for distribution. It is all viewed now as the "global economy", not just by republicans. I do believe that because of the Unions, many companies have moved outside the US in order to avoid these higher wages. A good wage is fair, but the Union wages are simply crazy. Concrete finishers in Illinois start out at $29/hour ($60k/year) + it cost his employer another $30-45/hour in premiums. Can anyone sincerely tell me that this is a fair wage? Makes going to college seem silly, doesn't it. When you put a strangle hold on business, it gives businesses a reason to leave for operations outside of the US.

So you are for Protective Import taxes??? how about you have to pay an additional $3000 + $2400 for that plasma TV.???

or since Japan is one of the largest Ore refining companies operating in the USA everything made of steel went up 500%??

That's why we do not have import taxes, or rather overt taxes.

[Logan13]

So you are for Protective Import taxes??? how about you have to pay an additional $3000 + $2400 for that plasma TV.???

or since Japan is one of the largest Ore refining companies operating in the USA everything made of steel went up 500%??

That's why we do not have import taxes, or rather overt taxes.

I am speaking on products made in countries that have no wage oversight, like your tennis shoes that are made in Thailand by workers making $.30/day. Japan, last I checked, pay fair wages, moreso than many companies in the US.

[Act of God]

And Arabs are not separatist! I thought if you were not muslim, than you were an infidel. Jews might have their own culture, but at least if I am not Jew, than I don't have to worry about a jew trying to kill me.

you are absolutely right, and look where both religions spawned. They are freakin next door neighbors for god's sake. Gee, both religions have issues with pork. Both require beards and head gear to be worn. Listen to someone speaking Hebrew and it will sound a LOT like arabic. They are so similar if you break it down it is scary.

For all of christianity's flaws, it has always been a religion of inclusion (more people = more money = more power I suppose). Christians have always tried to take care of the helpless, the poor...at least in modern day.

Plus, you can always be a christian or muslim. Don't need need to be BORN one, which say something about Judaism right there. I know it is possible to convert but trust me, you will NOT be accepted.

[J.S.N.]

This is a whole other arguement. These companies that operate outside of the US in order to pay "slave-wages" should be tariffed like hell on whatever products that they try to send back into the US for distribution. It is all viewed now as the "global economy", not just by republicans. I do believe that because of the Unions, many companies have moved outside the US in order to avoid these higher wages. A good wage is fair, but the Union wages are simply crazy. Concrete finishers in Illinois start out at $29/hour ($60k/year) + it cost his employer another $30-45/hour in premiums. Can anyone sincerely tell me that this is a fair wage? Makes going to college seem silly, doesn't it. When you put a strangle hold on business, it gives businesses a reason to leave for operations outside of the US.

if you want a more direct argument pertaining to the israel-palestine situation, then why don't we give $100+ billion to the black sudanese who are current genocide victims of the arabs up north, when we give that amount to the israelis under an obscure threat of genocide?

as for wages, why in the hell would anyone want to live on shitty wages? i hate to break it to you, but there are very fews jobs out these a monkey can't do, and even in the highly killed professions liek engineer there are an army of people from nigeria, india, china/wherevs who can do that too, and for much less money. why is it fair to pay someone who breaks their ass $10 when it's not fair for them to take shit from your home or take money from your wallet?

[Logan13]

if you want a more direct argument pertaining to the israel-palestine situation, then why don't we give $100+ billion to the black sudanese who are current genocide victims of the arabs up north, when we give that amount to the israelis under an obscure threat of genocide?

What are you referring to above?

as for wages, why in the hell would anyone want to live on shitty wages? i hate to break it to you, but there are very fews jobs out these a monkey can't do, and even in the highly killed professions liek engineer there are an army of people from nigeria, india, china/wherevs who can do that too, and for much less money. why is it fair to pay someone who breaks their ass $10 when it's not fair for them to take shit from your home or take money from your wallet?

Market dictates wages. Since you are so much in favor of increasing wages, does this mean that you are also in favor of ridding the US of illegal immigrants who are here causing wages to drop?

[ecivon]

Market dictates wages. Since you are so much in favor of increasing wages, does this mean that you are also in favor of ridding the US of illegal immigrants who are here causing wages to drop?

Bro, this is so wrong. By and large the illegal immigrants are here doing work that Americans won't do. What's causing real drop in wages is the export of manufacturing jobs overseas and a shift towards the service industry within the labor force that pays far less in real wages/earnings.

[spywizard]

I am speaking on products made in countries that have no wage oversight, like your tennis shoes that are made in Thailand by workers making $.30/day. Japan, last I checked, pay fair wages, moreso than many companies in the US.

but their house payment is $.04 per day, and food cost is .15 per day..

fair wages in a competative market is what i am talking about..

[spywizard]

Market dictates wages. Since you are so much in favor of increasing wages, does this mean that you are also in favor of ridding the US of illegal immigrants who are here causing wages to drop?

yes, yes i am... the media keeps portraying this group as willing to take jobs americans won't do.. that's not true..

Now we have a generation of kids that won't get any job, they are all waiting to get their record deals..

[Logan13]

Bro, this is so wrong. By and large the illegal immigrants are here doing work that Americans won't do. What's causing real drop in wages is the export of manufacturing jobs overseas and a shift towards the service industry within the labor force that pays far less in real wages/earnings.

The jobs that illegals are doing today were done by US citizens in the past, prior to the influx of illegals in the 80's, except for picking fruit and other agriculture positions that were originally exempt from the minimum wage scales. Americans will not work in these positions, but only because these positions now pay lower wages due to illegals willing to work for less. These same positions paid the same if not more back in the 70's & 80's. Take the construction and manufacturing fields today. You have two options, work for $8-10/hour like the illegals will, or join a union. I agree that the exporting of jobs has effected our labor force, but to say that 15 million illegals now living in the US are NOT taking jobs away from US citizens is just naive..........but it does show how strong the US economy is by only having a 4.5% unemployment rate.

[Logan13]

yes, yes i am... the media keeps portraying this group as willing to take jobs americans won't do.. that's not true..
This question was actually for JSN........., but I obviously agree with you
Now we have a generation of kids that won't get any job, they are all waiting to get their record deals..

Yep, everyone wants to be the next 50cent..............

[Logan13]

but their house payment is $.04 per day, and food cost is .15 per day..

fair wages in a competative market is what i am talking about..

I must admit, on non-DOT jobs, I have been known to order a few boat loads of non-grade steel form India........and yes, I shop at Walmart evry now and than.......

[Kärnfysikern]

This is a whole other arguement. These companies that operate outside of the US in order to pay "slave-wages" should be tariffed like hell on whatever products that they try to send back into the US for distribution. It is all viewed now as the "global economy", not just by republicans. I do believe that because of the Unions, many companies have moved outside the US in order to avoid these higher wages. A good wage is fair, but the Union wages are simply crazy. Concrete finishers in Illinois start out at $29/hour ($60k/year) + it cost his employer another $30-45/hour in premiums. Can anyone sincerely tell me that this is a fair wage? Makes going to college seem silly, doesn't it. When you put a strangle hold on business, it gives businesses a reason to leave for operations outside of the US.

That is ridicilous. That is what a doc or dentist makes over here

[juicedOUTbrain]

I love how anything put out by the american mainstream media is pure truth and any other source is not believeable...you would all be perfect citizens in Orwellls book "1984"...

the american media does not tell you the whole truth, and the wall many of you have blocking out any info that comes from elsewhere is very scary to me...

I am an american jew (by heritage not religion) and american jews are 70% liberal and voted for gore in 2000...Its the Israeli RIGHT with help from the christian right aswell as bug buisness interests that have an overlapping agenda, that have the most pull in the bush administration...wars fought for the security of israel amount to huge profits for oil, defence, reconstruction....

Look at PNAC, AEI, Hudson institute, theyve been know as being the most influencial think tanks in the US...Almost every member of each group is jewish...

look at the biggest media watch dog groups...ADL.org, Camera.org, MEMRI,org all right wing jewish groups...most of the founders being in the think tanks...they consider any strory against israel as anti-semetic...

look at the second largest PAC in the US....AIPAC gives politicians huge amounts of money to vote the way they do...and to compare aipac to the black caucus is a joke...

so the biggest think tanks, media watchdog groups, and PACs in the US are all Jewish ( Israeli rightwing more specifically) any any washington insider will tell you this, but jews dont have any influence on things, and anyone who thinks they do is spouting propaganda?

youve all based your opinions of half truths, straight up!...and are living in a delusional reality as a result...I am very confident on my opinions and before anyone discounts this post as propaganda or conspiracy...ask me to elaborate on anything ive stated in this post. Ill do it with sources that will be to your satisfaction...

And I dont know why people insist on using al jazeera as a link...after years of anti muslim propaganda on cable news and elsewhere noone will take it seriously....its counter productive to informing people of the truth...90% of it is still true, but there are better sources that are more "reliable" to people who dont trust anything thats not american MSM...

you can debate if these jewish interests are the same as the US, or that its in our interest to support it, but to deny altogether it is just showing a lack of knowledge...

im sick of this shit do your homework people instead of just learning everything you know from TV news and labeling anyone who disagrees with you a propagandist..the TV news is the real propaganda...i have my beliefs questioned all day as i watch the MSM...I see nothing proving my opinions wrong, they just leave out a whole side of the story that further validates my opinions...

[Act of God]

Yeah but its way easier to yell "anti-semite" and end the conversation! That seems to be a choice tactic when there is no true counter-argument.

[Kärnfysikern]

What I have a problem with is that you first make the statement that there are alot of jews in important positions. Im sure that can be supported.

But you then make the huge leap into assuming all those jews are (ab)using there position to further the same cause. I have no reason to belive that the jews are a homogeneous group working for the same goal.

[ecivon]

I love how anything put out by the american mainstream media is pure truth and any other source is not believeable...you would all be perfect citizens in Orwellls book "1984"...

the american media does not tell you the whole truth, and the wall many of you have blocking out any info that comes from elsewhere is very scary to me...

I am an american jew (by heritage not religion) and american jews are 70% liberal and voted for gore in 2000...Its the Israeli RIGHT with help from the christian right aswell as bug buisness interests that have an overlapping agenda, that have the most pull in the bush administration...wars fought for the security of israel amount to huge profits for oil, defence, reconstruction....

Look at PNAC, AEI, Hudson institute, theyve been know as being the most influencial think tanks in the US...Almost every member of each group is jewish...

look at the biggest media watch dog groups...ADL.org, Camera.org, MEMRI,org all right wing jewish groups...most of the founders being in the think tanks...they consider any strory against israel as anti-semetic...

look at the second largest PAC in the US....AIPAC gives politicians huge amounts of money to vote the way they do...and to compare aipac to the black caucus is a joke...

so the biggest think tanks, media watchdog groups, and PACs in the US are all Jewish ( Israeli rightwing more specifically) any any washington insider will tell you this, but jews dont have any influence on things, and anyone who thinks they do is spouting propaganda?

youve all based your opinions of half truths, straight up!...and are living in a delusional reality as a result...I am very confident on my opinions and before anyone discounts this post as propaganda or conspiracy...ask me to elaborate on anything ive stated in this post. Ill do it with sources that will be to your satisfaction...

And I dont know why people insist on using al jazeera as a link...after years of anti muslim propaganda on cable news and elsewhere noone will take it seriously....its counter productive to informing people of the truth...90% of it is still true, but there are better sources that are more "reliable" to people who dont trust anything thats not american MSM...

you can debate if these jewish interests are the same as the US, or that its in our interest to support it, but to deny altogether it is just showing a lack of knowledge...

im sick of this shit do your homework people instead of just learning everything you know from TV news and labeling anyone who disagrees with you a propagandist..the TV news is the real propaganda...i have my beliefs questioned all day as i watch the MSM...I see nothing proving my opinions wrong, they just leave out a whole side of the story that further validates my opinions...

There is absolutely no news source worth watching in the US. They have all evolved into reporting news events as opinion leaders. If it is available ITN and CBC have been pretty decent in reporting facts as they happened on the ground.

Frankly, I could give a tinkers less what someone chooses to do in the privacy of their own home. What I do care about is the proliferation and depth of this huge, well financed, entrenched jewish/Israeli propaganda machine that has the US strapped to its crotch. Lest anyone thinks it doesn't exist, or that its malevolency is blown out of proportion, or that those who talk about it are conspiracists, they are sadly mistaken and delusional.

Diaspora zionists and Israel are raping the US of its credibility and its money.

[ecivon]

What I have a problem with is that you first make the statement that there are alot of jews in important positions. Im sure that can be supported.

But you then make the huge leap into assuming all those jews are (ab)using there position to further the same cause. I have no reason to belive that the jews are a homogeneous group working for the same goal.

Johan, Bro you've got to be kidding me. Whether you choose to believe this is your choice, but it is not based on fact.

Do you really believe that the vast majority of diaspora jews don't do whatever it takes to push a favorable outcome, in all areas, for Israel?

[Kärnfysikern]

Do you really believe that the vast majority of diaspora jews don't do whatever it takes to push a favorable outcome, in all areas, for Israel?

No why should I? There are alot of americans with a swedish heritage, I have no reason to belive they are as a group trying to push for more swedish friendly policies.
I think labeling all jews as having the same will and goal is as short sighted as labeling all muslims as bloodthirsty al qaida supporters.

What does diaspora mean? I have never seen that word before.

[Kärnfysikern]

What you guys are basicly saying is that all jews in important positions in america is working primarly for israeli interest even if it is unfavorable for america.

I have no reason to belive that a american jew would have more loyalty to israel then they have to america.

[juicedOUTbrain]

But you then make the huge leap into assuming all those jews are (ab)using there position to further the same cause. I have no reason to belive that the jews are a homogeneous group working for the same goal.

Understandable...Like I said its not all the jews...Its the hard right pro israel jews...All of the most influencial of these groups are run by jews from the hard right, all very pro bush, very pro israel, anti-muslim and anti-arab...

These same people hold most of the important defence positions in the White House and Pentagon...In other words all of these groups share members from the same pool of the pro-israeli right.

Most of the average american jews are liberal...most are wealthy and intelligent people, but they're not ruthless enough, nor do they have the oppurtunity to dominate foreign policy like the pro-israeli right, especially in the pro-war bush administration...

check the homepages of some of these influencial groups...tell me if you see any similarity between these agendas and the one pushed by the mainstream "news" channels, 24/7 in this country...

Think tanks:
American Enterprise Institute
Project for a New American Century
Hudson Institute

Media Watchdogs:
American Defamation League (ADL)
Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI)
Commitee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting (CAMERA)

PACS:
American Israeli Public Affairs Commitee

All of them are waging a war on Jimmy Carter for his "anti-semetic statements" in his book about Israelis apartheid, and their control of US foreign policy. And they are all pushing for war against Iran...

wow, for claiming to be anti-defamation and promote accuracy in reporting, these groups sure do alot of defaming, and report a lot of inaccuracies

poke around on the think tank sites for a little while, read some of their policy papers, especially regarding Iraq and the rest of the middle east...notice the push by these groups into iraq and iran...before and after 9-11...to me the Iraq war is one of the biggest pieces of evidence for Israeli interference in US foreign policy...

I have no reason to belive that a american jew would have more loyalty to israel then they have to america.

1st off most of these groups are funded by the Israeli governement itself through various subsities and private donations.

2nd, you have to understand the mentality of these people...After the holocaust, these people are paranoid that the world is out to get them. In this attempt to counter anti-jewish sentiment they have become exactly what they despise. Many of these peoples parents went through WWII, and see the defense of Israel as priority number ONE...They dont realise that in this attempt they are becoming a self fullfilling prophecy, IMO...

Its also important to note that Israel is unique in allowing citizenship. If your parents were both born in Israel, than by law you are an israeli citizen. Thats why people claim its a jews only state. A second or third generation american jew has more right to live in israel today than a palestinian whos family has lived there for generations...

Iraq, Iran both seemed to be threats to the isreali right both inside the US and in Israel proper. The threat may very well be real...what i dont understand why american troops are mamed and killed, while americans pay the bill for this war to protect israel...I also think oil, has a large part in it considering thats where the pipelines get built to...like the bagdahd to haifa line...buts thats a whole new can of worms...

What does diaspora mean? I have never seen that word before.

The Jewish Diaspora (as well as religious predispositions) are the events that created this strong need for a jewish homeland, at all costs...

[J.S.N.]

Market dictates wages. Since you are so much in favor of increasing wages, does this mean that you are also in favor of ridding the US of illegal immigrants who are here causing wages to drop?

yes, and the legals as well. we're already in a situation where we're importing all kinds of resources for a massive population and we have boatloads of hispanics and asians coming in, working for less, and breeding like rabbits.

[ecivon]

Most of the average american jews are liberal...most are wealthy and intelligent people, but they're not ruthless enough, nor do they have the oppurtunity to dominate foreign policy like the pro-israeli right, especially in the pro-war bush administration

Whatever their philosophical and political views, these same jews you refer to still unequivocally financially support AIPAC, Israel and the zionist agenda. I would venture that almost without reservation every jew supports AIPAC and its mission to promote Israeli government and national interest -- no matter whether it is right, or wrong. The end result is exactly the same: Throwing fuel on the fire.

[Kärnfysikern]

Whatever their philosophical and political views, these same jews you refer to still unequivocally financially support AIPAC, Israel and the zionist agenda. I would venture that almost without reservation every jew supports AIPAC and its mission to promote Israeli government and national interest -- no matter whether it is right, or wrong. The end result is exactly the same: Throwing fuel on the fire.

Do you personaly know a majority of the over 5 million jews in america? If not I dont se how you can make such a statement about 5 million people without atleast some very strong statistics to back it up.

[Act of God]

Ahh the classic lib argument: If you can't prove that every single person in group "x" does "y" then it can't possibly be true. Common sense be damned, if you can only prove that 95% of a group believes in something you can't speak for the whole group.

Get over it, there is always an except to every rule. If you are ever going to talk about anything you have to accept that people deal with the majority.

[Kärnfysikern]

Understandable...Like I said its not all the jews...Its the hard right pro israel jews...All of the most influencial of these groups are run by jews from the hard right, all very pro bush, very pro israel, anti-muslim and anti-arab...

These same people hold most of the important defence positions in the White House and Pentagon...In other words all of these groups share members from the same pool of the pro-israeli right.

Most of the average american jews are liberal...most are wealthy and intelligent people, but they're not ruthless enough, nor do they have the oppurtunity to dominate foreign policy like the pro-israeli right, especially in the pro-war bush administration...

check the homepages of some of these influencial groups...tell me if you see any similarity between these agendas and the one pushed by the mainstream "news" channels, 24/7 in this country...

Think tanks:
American Enterprise Institute
Project for a New American Century
Hudson Institute

Media Watchdogs:
American Defamation League (ADL)
Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI)
Commitee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting (CAMERA)

PACS:
American Israeli Public Affairs Commitee

All of them are waging a war on Jimmy Carter for his "anti-semetic statements" in his book about Israelis apartheid, and their control of US foreign policy. And they are all pushing for war against Iran...

wow, for claiming to be anti-defamation and promote accuracy in reporting, these groups sure do alot of defaming, and report a lot of inaccuracies

poke around on the think tank sites for a little while, read some of their policy papers, especially regarding Iraq and the rest of the middle east...notice the push by these groups into iraq and iran...before and after 9-11...to me the Iraq war is one of the biggest pieces of evidence for Israeli interference in US foreign policy...



1st off most of these groups are funded by the Israeli governement itself through various subsities and private donations.

2nd, you have to understand the mentality of these people...After the holocaust, these people are paranoid that the world is out to get them. In this attempt to counter anti-jewish sentiment they have become exactly what they despise. Many of these peoples parents went through WWII, and see the defense of Israel as priority number ONE...They dont realise that in this attempt they are becoming a self fullfilling prophecy, IMO...

Its also important to note that Israel is unique in allowing citizenship. If your parents were both born in Israel, than by law you are an israeli citizen. Thats why people claim its a jews only state. A second or third generation american jew has more right to live in israel today than a palestinian whos family has lived there for generations...

Iraq, Iran both seemed to be threats to the isreali right both inside the US and in Israel proper. The threat may very well be real...what i dont understand why american troops are mamed and killed, while americans pay the bill for this war to protect israel...I also think oil, has a large part in it considering thats where the pipelines get built to...like the bagdahd to haifa line...buts thats a whole new can of worms...



The Jewish Diaspora (as well as religious predispositions) are the events that created this strong need for a jewish homeland, at all costs...

To be honest the whole "jews controll america" issue isnt realy important to me, I cant say I care either way since it has zero to no effect on my life anyway.
What I oppose is claiming a certain goal for a large group of people. But since you separate betwen "avarage" jews and the extrem right so I guess thats cool. Atleast you dont make any weird claims like every jew is thirsty for the blood of small palestinian kids.

IMO the bottom line is always the voting public.
Obviously the american public doesnt feel the politicans are puppets that follow interest that arent realy americas. Wether there is a jewish influence or not the american voters doesnt seem to disagree with the support to Israel and that is what is important.

[Kärnfysikern]

Ahh the classic lib argument: If you can't prove that every single person in group "x" does "y" then it can't possibly be true. Common sense be damned, if you can only prove that 95% of a group believes in something you can't speak for the whole group.

Get over it, there is always an except to every rule. If you are ever going to talk about anything you have to accept that people deal with the majority.

If I claim that every german loves sausage or that every french is snotty would you not think that claim is ridicilous?

Lets se proof that 95% of american jews support israels interest over american interests. Il be happy with a mere 80% if you can even prove that.

[Kärnfysikern]

Funny though that when it comes to science the german jew isnt a jew he is a german.

But when it comes to politics the american jew isnt american, he is a jew.

[Act of God]

That's their choice Johan. They don't relate to nationalism, and that actually comes from my friend's mouth "Jews are generally above nationalism". A Jew is a "Jew" before anything else. Hence, why if you ask them what they are they say "I'm Jewish" regardless if they are from America, Germany, Poland, Russia or wherever. That same lack of nationalism probably pisses the people who live and die for those countries off.

And I'm sure a lot of Germans do like sausage. How the hell do you think stereotypes come about? Do you think there were a bunch of white people sitting in some smoke filled room saying "we should tell everyone that blacks like watermelons and jews are cheap!"

Sometimes you have to look at the forest, that's all.

[Kärnfysikern]

That's their choice Johan. They don't relate to nationalism, and that actually comes from my friend's mouth "Jews are generally above nationalism". A Jew is a "Jew" before anything else. Hence, why if you ask them what they are they say "I'm Jewish" regardless if they are from America, Germany, Poland, Russia or wherever. That same lack of nationalism probably pisses the people who live and die for those countries off.

And I'm sure a lot of Germans do like sausage. How the hell do you think stereotypes come about? Do you think there were a bunch of white people sitting in some smoke filled room saying "we should tell everyone that blacks like watermelons and jews are cheap!"

Sometimes you have to look at the forest, that's all.

The danger of stereotypes, or hell even population statistics, is when you try and apply them to every individual.

What I find interesting is when I talked about positiv jewish traits like all the great jewish scientist then you think its gay. You claim we should consider einstein as a german and feynman as a american first and foremost.

But if a politician is a jew nationality is irrelevant, then he is just a closet israelist in your eyes.

Dont you se your own hypocricy? If they do something bad its because they are jews, if they do something good its because of something else.

[Kärnfysikern]

Im still waiting for the proof that a majority of american jews put israels interests above american interests. Got some statistics to back that up? If you can find me a good poll with a resonably stated question and just a yes or no answere then Im sold.

[Act of God]

I didn't take part in that argument. As far as politics go, if you are part of those groups named I'd say that is pretty ****ing relevant. Those organizations sole goal is to bolster Israel and be pro-Jew. Just because they aren't burning crosses or acting like uneducated rednecks doesn't mean it isn't all that different than all the pro-white groups everyone loves to hate.

The problem is, Jews want religious protection from the law. For instance, they are allowed to actually put in their wills "if my son doesn't marry a jew, he gets nothing." This type of clause is generally illegal and non-enforceable, but there is a special exception for jews. If the same clause said "if my daughter doesn't marry a white/irish/italian/etc guy she gets nothing" would literally be struck down by the courts. The reason, "religious freedom".

Now, there they are claiming that being a Jew is being a religion. I can buy that, as I think that is the truth. What I don't buy is the duality race/religion. Pick one and go with it.

Then, Jews go around yelling about racism and anti-semitism because their RACE is being discriminated against (because they are so oppressed in this country, right).

Like I said, you have to pick one. You can't get double protection.

As far as stereotypes, you have to go with what you see. As I stated earlier, I see a lot living where I do that most people probably do not. The county I live in is very, very Jewish and so are the surrounding areas. I would vcnture to say that they may very well be the majority for the most part around here.

Perhaps that is an explanation for things, as they are a large populous group and that breeds power in the immediate area. I don't know the reason to be honest.

Rambling aside, my point is that you can't discredit things just because you can't prove them on an individual basis. This is why I said this applied to the Jewish culture and not the individuals. There is a clear group mentality present within the group.

And even if it were true, no one is going to come out and say "you guys are right, we are trying to take over your country and run your government like puppet masters"

Just because it wasn't said, doesn't mean it isn't true. These kind of things are very hard to prove without a smoking gun. The lack of said gun doesn't mean that the idea is retarded, though.

[Kärnfysikern]

Fair enough.

Painting all american jews as involved in a conspiracy that directly lead to iraq war ect doesnt hold much water.

But discussing the realistic possibility that pro israeli lobby groups have influence over american foreign policy is a whole different matter.

I only object to the first option, the second I dont involve myself in.

[juicedOUTbrain]

Painting all american jews as involved in a conspiracy that directly led to the iraq war ect doesnt hold much water
But discussing the realistic possibility that pro israeli lobby groups have influence over american foreign policy is a whole different matter.
I only object to the first option, the second I dont involve myself in.

I specifically stated that most americans do not support bushs foreign policy. My jewish side of my family is very political and they hate bush with a passion. In fact, some of them even write for the new york times, hehehe...

However, they do support Israel...they just dont think that the US should be paying tax dollars and loosing lives for their country...

My point was never that the average jewish-americans were involved in some type of scheme...it was that the israeli right has taken over the foreign policy of this country and has too much influence in the media. Read the policy papers I linked before, than look at the members of the group...Than cross reference that member list to the list of bush cabinet members...If that doesnt convince you that our foreign policy was written in 1996 for Israel, i dont know how to convince you...

Originally From Clean Break Strategy
"Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.".

From what I can tell from your past posts johan, you dont believe Iraq has benefitted the US...Have you ever wondered why US politicians pushed SO HARD for a war with little benefit...Maybe this will answer your questions...

. Wether there is a jewish influence or not the american voters doesnt seem to disagree with the support to Israel and that is what is important.

I personally think most americans would be outraged if they saw the true nature of the brutal palestinian occupation....But this occupation has been hidden from the american people by a strongly pro-israeli media who is routinely intimidated by these media watch dog groups, who themselves are run by the same zionists that write these policy papers...

...check this movie out if you get a chance..

The War Party

I know that you dont think it matters, but I do...The Iraq war and americas unconditional support for Israel has worsened the security of the US...it has also done some damage to our economy by growing our debt out of control..Our standing in the world has drastically dropped and weve distanced ourselves, even from our allie...so i cant agree with you that the US-Israel relationship doesnt effect US...
For god sakes President bushs approval rating are now lower than the Israeli PM amongst arabs...In a war of ideas thats a pretty scary fact...You cant stop everyone that wants to hurt us, so making many many more of these people will only jepordize our security further, IMO...

[Act of God]

I have no problem being on the side of a democratic society that is under fire, but sometimes you have to call someone out on the crap they are dealing out. I think a lot of Americans are getting tired of Israel being above criticism.

We can be allies with Israel, but we don't have to wipe their asses too.

[3Vandoo]

The World needs cheap labour!

Be a communist and give them a good salary like here, you will pay a banana 50$

[3Vandoo]

dont forget what Kissinger told the Israeli PM

Im an american first

jew in second!

[eliteforce]

That isn't true, i'm not religious at all(agnostic) but I still tell people that I come from a christian famly, and I still celebrate christmas with the famly..and especially lets say if your an American caucasian then your probably going to identify with other white christian people that are from where your from, i don't see the difference. just that Jewish people say their a jew but many of them dis-associate themselves with Judiasm (some because of the negative image jews get as a result of zionism, others on religious grounds) and then they just become 'normal' white people or normal americans, or they marry a non-jewish spouse and then just start doing the christmas and easter thing..in other words jewish americans are increasingly just white people, take off the hat and lose the twisted beard and there is no identifyable race, it's not like a black or a hispanic or a muslim/arab, or an oriental where you can tell just by looking at them what race they are

As J.S.N say they consider themself a people and thats good enough for me. A jew consider him/herself as a jew even if he isnt religious. You cant say the same for christianity, islam, buddhism or any other religion.

[saturn08]

Listen ecivon, you anti semetic, racist, bluntly dumb individual, if you dont like jewish people so much and have a problem with them running goverment why dont you buy a brain and get into a political position where you can make a difference, instead of crying about how the jews run this and the jews run that. We live in probably the freeist nation in the world, where a man can "pull himself up by his own bootstraps" and become whatever he wants, including jews.
If you have such a problem with them, do something about it. Otherwise shut your mouth because you only show off your stupidity and ignorance.
Let me put it to you this way, "buddy" since you seem to believe that jewish people are holding down the arab population and responsible for arabs and everyone elses problems, forcing people into poverty, stealing jobs, killing palestinians and such,
approximate population of jews in the world is about 14,000,000

if 14m jews can cause such bad problems for the other 6.1B people on the planet then there is something wrong. now I have no problem with arab people. My best friend is Iranian. I grew up around Iranians who came over straight from Iran to Canada my whole life. And if my friends ever had a problem with jews they kept it to themselves.
As long as people work hard and have ambition, they can do anything; I truly believe that, and that goes for anyone and all races here in a country that is free. People ****ing died for the damn freedom that you so piss about. Dont like it here, go live somewhere else. Move to Iran or somewhere where jews or anyone non muslim arent wanted. See how you quality of life goes down. Dont blame jews for some insecurity that you yourself doesnt have the balls to face up to. This is an open forum, sure, but racist bastards arent wanted I dont think.